Recently there is a lot of talk amond the audio hoodlums about the reported benefits of the V-Caps capacitors.

http://v-cap.com

They have good press and good feedback from DIYer and manufactures, the web sites that sell them push the “right buttons” of the reader’s awareness… I was wondering if those caps are really good. I never used them personally.

We know that each few month there is new and new “revolutionary” part pop up on the market, those that are “the single greatest improvement “. We all fools look at this… try and… I’m sure all of us have a large box with “tried greatest improvement” that turned out to be just the “Sonic Paradise for Morons”. I certainly do not say that V-Caps are in the same boat – I just do not know…

Purely rationally, the ultra expensive V-Caps might not be necessary the greatest things of all. The V-Caps are tin foil caps but for the ultimate choice I would like to see cupper foil. The Teflon caps that I used in past were also not the greatest thing, in fact I did not like them at all. I presume that V-Caps might be different then the other Teflon caps…

However, what annoys me is the fact that the very same people who today drop saliva about V-Caps a few years back had expressed the same idiotically-exuberant behavior about the Black Gates capacitors, Hovland capacitors, the silver wires and the similar crap.  So, should I be informed or alarmed?

I do not mind to try V-Caps but what would I accept as a credible feedback for those who promote the advances of V-Caps? Continuing my other thread about meaningful Audio Critiques I would say that I personally would like to observe the LEVEL OF CRITICISM at which the V-Caps company (or their reviewers) would evaluate the accused imperfections of their competitors. I would like to see a list of clearly enumerated and clearly identified problems that other caps have and then a statement that V-Caps do not have the above mention problems. That would inform me that they are serious.

Otherwise I will be forced to read the enthusiastic feedback form Audio Morons™ who go all over themselves claiming that V-Caps made “each single instrument to sound separate from others… “.  That kind of “review” is making me worry…

It seems like lots of folks use parts to try to tune/voice their systems, and the V-Caps are just another option, IMO.  No matter what people think of new parts as they break them in, they will eventually tire of the overall sound from their systems and/or they will become open to a change.  My own theory on this is that as long as the change is not obviously for the worse, it may be percieved as "better" for any number of objective or subjective reasons, even when the listener in quesiton is basically not equal to describing exactly what it is he is newly moved by.  I have not tried the V-cap because my sources say its primary attribute is "focus", at the expense of some other qualities, and this jibes with what I have heard from other Teflons I have tried.  I drew fire from you when I mentioned that the (stupidly expensive!) Teflon/poly "co-mingled di-electric" Cardas caps did a good job in my phono stage.  My choice in this case was based on simplistic trust in the component's designer, however, rather than any loyalty to or built-up expectaitons about either Teflon or Cardas, per se.  In other words, it was dumb luck for me that they "worked" to provide the ambiance and overall performance I wanted but had not gotten from other caps I had tried in that position.  Since this is the only place I've tried them, I can't offer anything else.

I try to listen through the blathering superlatives and spurious criticisms that form clouds around the latest and greatest to get to any meat available when reading about parts.  I find I can usually get a pretty good idea if I boil down a number of descriptions/opinions from various sources, some of whom I use as "references" not because I agree with them but because I can +/- count on my own reactions relative to their descriptions and proclamations.  Of course there is apt to be a measure of consensus at any one site due to herd mentality, and of course the paid reviewers must be read with a Thesaurus and a salt shaker close at hand.  My own approach has been to just mentally delete (or at least severally temper) the hyperbole.  Don't we all fall for things "too violently" now and again?

I forget just now who makes it, but I seem to recall that there is a copper foil Teflon cap available.  Might be a Rel-Cap. It is expensive.  I think Percy may still offer them.  One "technical" problem for me is that Teflon notoriously "cold forms", so I wonder about its performance over time.  Of couse I will tattle if the Cardas "co-mingled dielectric" caps go south, either in fact or to my fickle mind.

Has anyone given any thought to price versus cost (versus performance...) of these "exotic" caps?  Anyone for Deulund?  I think these are 6-nines OCC copper and hand-made Japanese paper infused with oil from milked-alive Antartic-cycle sperm whales (hence the cost/prices).

Romy, I did do a fair amount of fishing trying to find a "consumer" source for a matched pair of ElectroCube 950Ds. These puppies may not be expensive but they are "exotic" in their own way because hard to source for average chumps with little use for large-ish quantities of them.  Sometimes I opt to piss money rather than time.

Best regards,
Paul S

I tried the V-caps in my system and it changed the sound.  This is not a big surprise.  Any time you change caps, even to the same cap, it is not broken in and you have been soldering and tinkering with your system, and it needs time to settle a bit, I think.

It's not magic.

People spend so much time on capacitors because they are probably the weakest point in a circuit, as it is not just electrons flowing through metal.  Any time you can get toplogy where the electrons are just flowing through metal, I sounds better to me.  When you use a capacitor it is a lot like getting at the end of a long line at the grocery store and expecting that the clerk knows what items you have in your basket based on the collective murmurs of everyone else in line.

You have to think of the limitations of the design of a particular capacitor and where it is going to be placed in your particular circuit.

But you knew that.

Based on my studies, I would like to see tungsten capacitors made more available, but the cost (even a 0.05 mFd capacitor will cost about $500) is prohibitive.

Adrian

Here is a good material with Chinese capacitor shootout

http://www.goodsoundclub.com/PDF/capacitorshootout.pdf

It looks like more or less intelligent writing, thought the caps sitting between stage and caps sitting in feedback work differently (constantly charged vs. constantly recharged). Still, I think they too much pleased with Russian Teflons, which are very bad caps. BTW, I herd that someone injecting Russian Teflons with some kind of special juice making them to sound better…

drdna wrote:

…… people forget that a circuit is a physical collection of dynamically interacting electromagnetic fields……

Isn’t it might a separate VERY large subject?

drdna wrote:

The low level resolution is exquisite but this is at the expense of audio neutrality.  Some aspect of musicality is excluded to provide the fien resolution and we end up with very detailed sounds but somehow the music is lost.

Adrian, that was it! It is exactly why in many cases I am suspicious to hear from other audio people their comments about the “quality of sound” from various passive parts. The audio people do not look for “correctness” but rather for immediate quantifiable gain in mostly irrelevant characteristics (like resolution and etc). There are a number of products in market (including capacitors) that are made “just to impress” during evaluations. They are very bad products. I certainly, since I never used them do not say that V-caps are one of them….

There are other two very interesting subjects: how the caps “sound” in relation to:

•  ….where they are located. The supply, bypass, blocking-coupling, signal, signal to ground, speakers, cathode, filaments, feedback positions all my have own idiosyncrasies as the caps will work differently and do the different things in these applications.
•  …what is before and after a capacitor. I have seen as combination of passive parts did affect the output.

Rgs, the Cat

The Netherlanders Tony Gee after geting sick to fight with his stupid Fostexes and Lowthers have his run over capacitors.

http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html

Paul S wrote:

Romy, I did do a fair amount of fishing trying to find a "consumer" source for a matched pair of ElectroCube 950Ds. These puppies may not be expensive but they are "exotic" in their own way because hard to source for average chumps with little use for large-ish quantities of them.  Sometimes I opt to piss money rather than time.

The 950 Cubes are no exotic. They are very available from Electrocube with $500 minimum order. If you try to fish them one by one then you have problems as need to look when retailers have left over from a large party.

Whoever would like to try the Cubes here is a rare opportunity:

NEDCO ELECTRONICS 
12110 PRICHARD FARM ROAD
MARYLAND HEIGHTS, MO 63043
Phone: 800-605-2323 
Fax: 800-605-3836
Website: http://www.nedcoelectronics.com

As now they have 90 paces of 950B1E205M that is 2uF 400V caps, $7.49 each. I like them quite a lot and I feel that they are at the level of RTX polystyrene, with slightly better upperbass, with slightly less aggressive transients and slightly more evenly balanced all-together. The Electrocube 950 is my preferred cap in Melquiades and pretty much everyone where need plastic caps, though in my phonocorrectors I use RTX.

One supposes good sound, but... come on, they can't be THAT good (can they?)...

http://www.partsconnexion.com/catalog/CapacitorsFilm.html    Deulund tabs on the bottom of the page

They also say Jensen on them, meaning, I ass-u-me, that Jensen makes them for the Deulund fellow, just as Solen makes the M-Cap Supreme series.

If you insist, Deulund also makes other very boutique stuff, like resistors and coils.

As curious as I am I cannot bring myself to try these caps.

I wonder if the silver ones will go up in value over time, with the silver market?

Best regards,
Paul S

I am not sure who those people are. It might be Arthur Loesch or someone who cashes out on Arthur Loesch… it might be whoever and I have no idea about the credibility and seriousness of those people. I heard Arthur Loesch does not do Audio anymore, so… it might be some kind of dealer with a mask of Mother Teresa…

Anyhow, they have page dedicate to “A Methodology for the Comparison of Passive Audio Components or the Great Capacitors shoot-out”. You might find it worth to read.

http://www.tempoelectric.com/caps.htm