Hi Romy,

I don't doubt for a moment that there are plenty of people 'who know' who will wax lyrical about the benefits of open loop eq in feedback circuits. There are people 'who know' who will tell me that valve amplifiers cannot be as good as transistor amplifiers and that transmission lines are the only way to get accurate bass from loudspeakers. Unfortunately I have to go to CES next month and will meet dozens of people 'who know' and who will proudly demonstrate their new mousetrap for me. Ultimately we have to base our opinions on what we hear, experience and find agreeable.

My experience with the 834p stemmed from having one at home for about a year soon after it was launched. I did try different types of ECC83 in it which did change it's balance slightly but not enough to make me like it.

My main problem with it was that it lacked clarity. Everything sounded smeared and hazy. It was overly euphonic (tubey) and fundamentally altered the timbre of instruments it set out to reproduce rendering all with the same signature of even order distortion. It also sounded slow and to my ears undynamic. I think it was moderately popular exactly because it sounded tubey and in most applications (ie as a substitute for the inbuilt phono stage in solid state pre-amps and integrated amps) it was preferable to what it replaced. In absolute terms, imho, it is a long way from being any sort of reference. However, it works for you and that's good.

I'm not really concerned whether passive eq no feedback pre-amps have recently become fashionable. I've been using them for 15-20 years. They've always sounded more natural to me. Most commercial implementations that I see are compromised in many ways, the most fundamental being power supply design.

I would like to try to build a equaliser using the Tango EQ600P LCR modules or the S&B equivalent. I heard one once and it did sound very promising.

Hi Guy,

guy sergeant wrote:

My experience with the 834p stemmed from having one at home for about a year soon after it was launched. I did try different types of ECC83 in it which did change it's balance slightly but not enough to make me like it. My main problem with it was that it lacked clarity. Everything sounded smeared and hazy. It was overly euphonic (tubey) and fundamentally altered the timbre of instruments it set out to reproduce rendering all with the same signature of even order distortion. It also sounded slow and to my ears undynamic.

Hmm, I'm allways being equally abused by one side for my audio absolutism (those are those who fail to read what I write well enough and presume anything I write is an absolute pronouncement and then find statements that appear to be contradicting each other) while the absolutists (among whom I am counting Romy I'm afraid) revile my Audio Relativism which allows that there is actually merit in items that are not too suited to their personal absolutes.

The EAR834P is such a case. I cannot quite relate either the enthusiam of Romy for the original and my mods, neither can I relate too well to your comments. I think it has merit and is a surprisingly effective piece of equipment, if you make sure to buy the cheapest version.

It is IMHO non too difficult to make a better phono stage, but in commercial terms, for the same money, with the kind of margins EAR USED TO give to dealers it would be a hard job.

In some ways the EAR 834P is the DENON DL103 of the Phonostages, to me, not the last word but used correctly it gets enough right that to spend more you need to get something of extremely higher performance, which tends to be not often available.

guy sergeant wrote:

I would like to try to build a equaliser using the Tango EQ600P LCR modules or the S&B equivalent. I heard one once and it did sound very promising.

S&B now has a 10K version of the same, I'm still waiting for my own, but using a 10K T-Network will make the overall design rather simpler that the 600R Impedance one. From those that have gone out and where phonostages have been build the general effect sonically seems identical to the 600R version.

Ciao T

guy sergeant wrote:

I don't doubt for a moment that there are plenty of people 'who know' who will wax lyrical about the benefits of open loop eq in feedback circuits. There are people 'who know' who will tell me that valve amplifiers cannot be as good as transistor amplifiers and that transmission lines are the only way to get accurate bass from loudspeakers. Unfortunately I have to go to CES next month and will meet dozens of people 'who know' and who will proudly demonstrate their new mousetrap for me.

guy sergeant wrote:

My main problem with it was that it lacked clarity. Everything sounded smeared and hazy. It was overly euphonic (tubey) and fundamentally altered the timbre of instruments it set out to reproduce rendering all with the same signature of even order distortion. It also sounded slow and to my ears undynamic.

guy sergeant wrote:

I would like to try to build a equaliser using the Tango EQ600P LCR modules or the S&B equivalent. I heard one once and it did sound very promising.

Thorsten wrote:

The EAR834P is such a case. I cannot quite relate either the enthusiam of Romy for the original and my mods.

Thorsten wrote:

S&B now has a 10K version of the same, I'm still waiting for my own, but using a 10K T-Network will make the overall design rather simpler that the 600R Impedance one. From those that have gone out and where phonostages have been build the general effect sonically seems identical to the 600R version.

The Cat

guy sergeant wrote:

I'm not really concerned whether passive eq no feedback pre-amps have recently become fashionable. I've been using them for 15-20 years. They've always sounded more natural to me. Most commercial implementations that I see are compromised in many ways, the most fundamental being power supply design.

Wow, how much better would the audio magazines be if we didn't have to tolerate the cliched and ill informed appraisals we are normally subjected to?! I completely understand how you perceived the sound of your Lamm experience from this image.

I'd get much more from reviewers if they communicated like this.

It would be quicker to read the trashy rags aswell! (not that I really ever bother)

I shall be hunting for a suitable image to conjure up my impression of the 834. A rustic scene perhaps. Taken from the lid of a biscuit tin or festive box of chocolates.

An interesting devise, They allow to adjust the midle point of the RIAA curve. I never have seen it and I wonder why would it be necessary or desierable?

http://www.gha.com.au/pdf/JPA66flyerPrelfVE.pdf

http://www.toneimports.com/emt/jpa66.html

http://www.electori.co.jp/EMT/JPA66.pdf

Romy the Cat wrote:

An interesting devise, They allow to adjust the midle point of the RIAA curve. I never have seen it and I wonder why would it be necessary or desierable?

Well, a range of mono EQ curves (and only Mono) had turnovers other than 500Hz (AES with 400Hz comes to mind, often used by Rudy van Gelder and then there was Decca with a different turnover each year in the 1950's!). 

AMR's PH-77 also adjusts the middle turnover for such curves. It is quite audible. Lest I am totally mistaken, the FM Acoustic Phonostage with adjustable EQ also adjusts this.

Ciao T

Thorsten wrote:

Well, a range of mono EQ curves (and only Mono) had turnovers other than 500Hz (AES with 400Hz comes to mind, often used by Rudy van Gelder and then there was Decca with a different turnover each year in the 1950's!).  AMR's PH-77 also adjusts the middle turnover for such curves. It is quite audible. Lest I am totally mistaken, the FM Acoustic Phonostage with adjustable EQ also adjusts this.

Romy the Cat wrote:

Hold on, are you saying that manufacturers of phonostages who claim that they run RIAA curve with precision of 0.1db are full of shit? Ok, take the Fifths and do not answer this question.

Romy the Cat wrote:

I did not know that middle turnover was a subject of valiance. The curves themselves were pretty much random in that time but I was under impression that they all cross zero at fixed point. If it is not so then it would be VERY VERY difficult to set the proper equalization by ears only.

A private Project is finished.

Some record collectors and serious Listeners (RCA Living Stereo, Decca...) wanted the best Phonostage to get what's really in their records. They didn't find something adequate on market what served their demands (No loss of Signal, no coloration, no compression, true tonal color) and decided to build one for themselves, 11 units. With the best parts available, the best technical specs possible, the most advanced RIAA available. Time: 2 years to get all parts and tests.

Decision: Every Part goes to University Lab to get checked for Specs, the first Prototype also to check for isolation of all Parts and cables.

Ultimate Phono preamplifier w/optional line stage. All triode tube design. Full symmetrical.

Unique passive phono EQ. Each tube with its own independent heater supply.

Unique double mono PS with bridge-type tube rectification (8 single-wave rectifiers - 4 each channel) and pure foil CLC-PS.

100 lbs - dual chassis, my 5 Phono inputs (50dB, 63dB, 68dB, 72dB, 77dB pure Phono gain, 81dB Parts also available), Output AES Studio specification, (600 Ω, digital 110 Ω) No- loss-of-Signal-Parts, the best out there (TKD, Silver plugs, Tubes from US Army rocket defensive stations, Silver soldered, Tantal, Caddock, all Parts internal decoupled via Electron microscope devices...)

Result: Superior Detail, accurate specs, no coloration and lifelike Reproduction.The sound ?

Well, it is no longer about sound.

Dynamics, colors, soundstage, 3-dimensionality - yes, all that and much more. But it goes a few significant steps beyond that. Imagine opening the windows of your room on a clear early summer morning. A breeze of fresh air comes in. A communication between the music and the listener.

Then go further in your imagination and tear down the walls of your listening room. All a sudden there is fresh air, the warmth of sun rays on your skin, a world of color, beauty and a flood of details around you.

Touching your senses - with brute directness, unfiltered, unaltered. Involving, dramatic, breathtaking and demanding.

Nothing between you and the nature.

You can no longer move your attention away from the music. VERY different from anything else I have ever heard - anywhere.

Quality inspection from Science Lab for every single piece incl. Tubes, final quality report Engineering Lab. 

Never a Mk II version. Tested in University Lab for accuracy before delivered. This one is final.