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02-03-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
steverino
Posts 353
Joined on 05-23-2009
Post #: 1221
Post ID: 20516
Reply to: 20515
Emp
fiogf49gjkf0d

I assume he is talking about EMP. However, you didn't mention that there was a lightning strike on your house. Not being an expert I am not sure why things in the basement would be affected but not components nearer the source of the alleged strike unless there is some conduit from the roof downward to there. You are not contending there was a nuclear blast in the area so the lightning strike if it happened would have to be very close to your house. Did you in fact see lightning or have reports of it in any weather bulletin?


From Wiki:An electromagnetic pulse (EMP), also sometimes called a transient electromagnetic disturbance, is a short burst of electromagnetic energy. Such a pulse may occur in the form of a radiated, electric or magnetic field or conducted electrical current depending on the source, and may be natural or man-made. The term "electromagnetic pulse" is commonly abbreviated to EMP, pronounced by saying the letters separately (E-M-P).

EMP interference is generally damaging to electronic equipment, and at higher energy levels a powerful EMP event such as a lightning strike can damage physical objects such as buildings and aircraft structures.
02-03-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,052
Joined on 05-28-2004
Post #: 1222
Post ID: 20519
Reply to: 20516
What else might it be?
fiogf49gjkf0d
Nope, I do not know if it was lighting what else might be sources for EMP, if it was EMP? I do not know what it was but it was something. From what I understand only lighting with it’s gHz pulse and disregard of capacitance might be something that might jump across surfaces like roof to “secure” power network behind PP3000+

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
02-03-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Bud
upper left crust united snakes
Posts 87
Joined on 07-07-2005
Post #: 1223
Post ID: 20520
Reply to: 20519
I have it!
fiogf49gjkf0d
Amy, brushing her hair, inadvertently touched the water faucet in the bathroom. Those pipes go directly into the basement...
02-03-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
steverino
Posts 353
Joined on 05-23-2009
Post #: 1224
Post ID: 20521
Reply to: 20519
Jumping bean
fiogf49gjkf0d
It does seem a puzzle. I would strongly doubt that the house took a lightning strike without you noticing, assuming you were at home during the storm. Additionally since there is apparently no mention of lightning in the area that seems unlikely. I don't know of any other non military source of EMP that could hit your house that way. I go back to a peculiar line surge as the cause. What is the fuse value of the PP3000? If it is higher than the upstream components then I wonder if there is some path by which a surge can travel through it without frying the PP fuse but damage the more sensitive boxes (lower fuse value or source components). Again as a precaution, I put a balun with 1A fuse after the PP for my preamps/CD player. I don't know if it's sensible or superstition however.
02-04-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,052
Joined on 05-28-2004
Post #: 1225
Post ID: 20524
Reply to: 20521
Yes, for sure it is puzzleing.
fiogf49gjkf0d
Well, I do not know if it was lightning but what else would it be. I did blame Amy with her hair and her curly machine and I did blame out little Koshkas for running around house like crazy and generating static perhaps. I even blamed the cleaning lady for wiping the dust too aggressively and not attaching a ground wire to her leg. The reality is that something had happened. I think it was lightning. It did not strike antenna over the roof, if it did the tuner’s input stage would do auf wiedersehen. So, I think it was some kind of lightning that most likely hit the roof or the trees near the house and then made own way to different power line in house. Well, whatever it was thee is anywhere no way to be protected from it. I would not put the Faraday cage around the house, would I? The fuse that burled in Shwarz was 0.15A, I do not know where it sits in the circuit but the low value of it does look conspicuous. I do not think that it protects input stage; no fuse will be able to react to lightning. There are some military lightning fuses but they work at very different principle and would be have cost/size more than the tuner itself.


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
02-04-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
N-set
Gdansk, Poland
Posts 609
Joined on 01-07-2006
Post #: 1226
Post ID: 20527
Reply to: 20421
Dedicated line shielding
fiogf49gjkf0d
Guys, do you shield your dedicated powe lines?
I'd have around 9m of a cable unning in the air from the apartment's power distibution box to the
rack. For me it looks like a nice antena for picking EMI/RFI trash
from the air. Such shielding indirectly suggest e.g. some pictures in R. Morrison's
"Grounding and shielding techniques..." (e.g. fig. 6.14 in the 3rd edition).

Cheers,
N-set


Cheers,
Jarek
STACORE
02-04-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,052
Joined on 05-28-2004
Post #: 1227
Post ID: 20528
Reply to: 20527
Shielding of dedicated power lines.
fiogf49gjkf0d
I feel that shielding of dedicated power lines is kind of arguable subject. First of it I do not know if it is necessary. What will you shield from?  The main point is what kind shielding and how it affects sound.  It might be shielding that is implemented in cable and it might the dedicated power line all together running in metal pipe. I did not try to shield my dedicated power line but I did experiment with power cord for audio components. My observation was that any shielded power cable made sound more challenging in imaging and slightly more flat. I have no idea why and it might be was the problem of specific shielded cable that I happened to have. I still have in basement perhaps 3-4 “expensive” shielded power cords that I do not use. Now if I have a superstition (perhaps I am wrong) that shielded cable adversely affect sound then how easy would be to do the same taste with let 150” dedicated power cable. A dedicated power line is an expensive and demanding project and I would applaud to somebody who would have 3-4 different examples of cables and chose among them. I would also applaud to somebody who would run 200” of steal pipe across house and then evaluate of this shielding have any sonic difference.  I wish I had this experience and I am frankly speaking I am glad that I did not.

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
02-04-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
miso
Posts 1
Joined on 02-04-2014
Post #: 1228
Post ID: 20529
Reply to: 20528
Shielding side-effects
fiogf49gjkf0d
Years ago i was testing various signal and speaker cables and wire configurations (as many did). Various gauges, shielded co-axials as well as single and multiple strands in various shapes/relations between signal and ground. My conclusion was that a full shielding, or even tight twist considerably flatted the sound. The sound didn't appear wrong by itself, but in direct comparison the flattening was very evident. The final winner was a never crossing 2 strand spiral of thin enameled wire around a cotton core (rope of 1cm diameter). From that time i never tightly bundled s/g wires together anywhere. I can't imagine what phenomena contribute to this (capacitance?) that are common with power cables as well, but it's always interesting to read about the effects of power cables from people who don't actually sell them.   
02-04-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,052
Joined on 05-28-2004
Post #: 1229
Post ID: 20530
Reply to: 20529
Shielding.
fiogf49gjkf0d
Yes, miso, I had exactly the very same experience. I did not experimented with high voltage wires and my high voltage were a few premade power cords that I got from different manufactures. Interesting that shielded cable BEFORE PP3000 aloe impact sound negatively.  I did however experimented a lot with signal wires during Milq contraction. There is a critical wire that goes to the 6C33C’s grid and I had perhaps 20 different wires in there, including some shielded. Anything shielded was not very good and a regular copper wire, twisted but not too widely, was the best solution. Is it universal rule? I do not know…

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
02-04-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,577
Joined on 10-12-2006
Post #: 1230
Post ID: 20531
Reply to: 20529
Antennas
fiogf49gjkf0d
We do have a cable thread somewhere on this site that might be better for cable-specific posts. As far as purely electrical "issues", in the end, better sound is still the main consideration. Shielding power lines is not only very difficult to do, in practical terms, but it is not in any case a perfect solution, since any reduction in noise by shielding comes at the cost of reduced quality of "remaining" sound in the end. God only knows why this is so. My own experiments show that crossing (braiding) power cable wires also introduces sonic "issues" even as it serves as an imperfect RFI/EMI "shield", probably by reducing inductance. I presently use braided 12 gauge magnet wires for power cords to my amps, where each of 3 wires is sleeved with soft polyethylene tubing, and the ground wire "floats" only on the component end, serving as a "drain" to ground for parasitic noise. These power cords "work" better in aggregate terms than other expensive cords I have tried, but they don't address surges or other on-line noise issues at all. Sadly, the "high quality" surge guards I've tried have been bad for sound, so I just take my chances. I have to confess that where I live, lightening is rare; but there is a LOT of noise "in the air" and on the power lines, which are, after all, perfect "antennas".

Back to lightening, it takes many forms, another study, in itself.

Paul S
02-04-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
N-set
Gdansk, Poland
Posts 609
Joined on 01-07-2006
Post #: 1231
Post ID: 20532
Reply to: 20531
Risky business
fiogf49gjkf0d
Thanks all for the replies! Looks like a very risky business.
Given the work involved and highly unsure effect, I'll happily skip
the shielding. Your comments suggest that the high capacitance line to ground (which the shield would happily provide) is undesireable.
I can speculate that this capacitance together with the input RCA-to-case capacitance may povide a path
for the line garbage into the amps input, but that's just my fantassies...
As for the implementation of the hypothetical shield,
instead of the steel tubbing, I was thinking of putting the power cable into a  copper mesh of a large enough diameter.

Cheers,
N-set

PS Paul, very clever idea with a floating on one end drain wire in the AC cord!


Cheers,
Jarek
STACORE
02-05-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
eli8888
Posts 17
Joined on 02-05-2014
Post #: 1232
Post ID: 20543
Reply to: 20532
Risky Business and Pure Power
fiogf49gjkf0d
HI all, my first post, although have been reading for a long long time and have contact with some members. Great site.
Wanted to share with you my experience with a PurePower order. and my huge problem... I have read terrible things here before but I do not think anything as bad as mine. 
I ordered a PP3000+ on the 2nd of October 2013. Did it through an official distributor in Europe. I was given a 2 to 3 weeks delivery time after consulting with the factory. ON the 24th the distributor informs me of a delay. I had not been asked for any payment at the time so was not really concerned. 4th of November, a month after placing the order, I get a confirmation of availability for the 15th of November and was asked for full payment, which I did. Given the delay since the order was placed, I asked the distributor to boucle check and get another time confirmation on delivery date the 15th of November, I got this confirmation so I did the payment of the full amount on the 6th of November.... well guess what...
The 13th of November I get a mail saying they will ship next week. ON the 20th of November after asking I get a mail saying they are testing some "new" units with a change in design and that they will ship asap but can not give a date. ON the 27th I ask again. No news from Purepower on when they will ship.
ON the 28th of November they promise to give me a shipping date next day. the 3rd of December I am told Purepower will ship soon but no date given.
By then it was 2 months since ordering so I decided to give it up and ask for a refund. I ask for a refund by mail the 6th of December. I get a mail telling me they had to make some design changes. I insist to get my money back given they were not able to send anything is over 2 months. They say the would do the refund soon.
No news from them in many days. The 17th of December the distributor tries to reach them again. Richard from Purepower sends me a mail saying he will refund the distributor directly. That on the 17th of December. ON the 20th I get a mail saying the refund will be made 2nd week of January...!!! Don't ask me for the reason. 14th of January after I ask again I get a mail saying they could not do the transfer due to the storms...!!!! and that it would be done next week. 18th of January the say they will pay next week... And so it goes. 
To resume it, as of today I do not still have the money, have not been given any reason why they do not refund and they just have my money for over 2 months which in my continent, that  has a name. I could been given many excuses why a unit is not sent. But I can not see any reason why they do not refund money they have for over 2 months. Money is money. Don't think they have production issues with that...
This is terrible. I had heard about delays in products. But keeping someone's money for over 2 months just because is terrible and dishonest. No communication from pure power in all this time since I told them I wanted a refund 2 months ago. 
I do have all the mails with prove of all I just said and dates. As you can imagine, they are many, but thankfully I kept them all.
Many here has a lot of experience with this company. Any advice or help someone could provide to me would be very appreciated. I really do not want and will not kiss good bye the almost 5000 Euro I gave this guys. Will do whatever I need to do.
Please help from anyone would be very much appreciated. This is a lot of money.
Thanks in advanceEli
02-05-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
steverino
Posts 353
Joined on 05-23-2009
Post #: 1233
Post ID: 20544
Reply to: 20543
Cruel to be kind
fiogf49gjkf0d
We did do what we could to help you in advance. If you read the thread then you would not be surprised at what you are going through. There apparently is a hierarchy as to who gets what when. You need to elevate yourself on the hierarchy.
02-05-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
eli8888
Posts 17
Joined on 02-05-2014
Post #: 1234
Post ID: 20545
Reply to: 20544
This is no delay. is taking your money
fiogf49gjkf0d
Yes I know. But I read about endless delays in production and delivery. But nothing in not willing to give the money back for months to a person who has cancelled an order. One thing is to have production problems which is clear they have. Another is to be dishonest which is what you are when you take the money of another person and run. There are no excuses there about production problems or whatever. Keeping your money just because is a total different thing frankly I was not expecting.
02-05-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
decoud
United Kingdom
Posts 247
Joined on 03-01-2008
Post #: 1235
Post ID: 20546
Reply to: 20545
Chain of liability
fiogf49gjkf0d
If you bought it through a third party, then they are liable for your refund, not the manufacturer. How they get their money back is their own problem. 
02-05-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
eli8888
Posts 17
Joined on 02-05-2014
Post #: 1236
Post ID: 20547
Reply to: 20546
My situation
fiogf49gjkf0d
The 3rd party, who is an official distributor of the product for Europe is telling me he will prepay me as soon as pure power send them the money they paid back. This was agreed with PurePower and the distributor.
The scheme si I paid the distributor. The distributor paid Pure power. I cancelled the order and asked for my money back. The distributor did not had it anymore since it had paid PUrepwoer. Asked pure power for the money. Never got it so neither did I. If I have to go after them I will go after both of them. Just hope I do not have to get to that extreme. But is looking bad. 
It is very dishonest. What I can not understand from the distributor is ho they keep representing a company like this. 
02-05-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
steverino
Posts 353
Joined on 05-23-2009
Post #: 1237
Post ID: 20548
Reply to: 20545
Lambs to the ....
fiogf49gjkf0d
So when you "read about endless delays in production and delivery", the first thing you do is order an expensive piece of equipment no questions asked or precautions taken??
02-05-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
eli8888
Posts 17
Joined on 02-05-2014
Post #: 1238
Post ID: 20549
Reply to: 20548
Delay is not the same or so I thought
fiogf49gjkf0d
I read about delays. But thought if I decided to cancel they would return the money. Did not read anything about they taking your money and running.... Guess was wrong. The dealer seemed honest. They did not want to take my money until they got a firm delivery date from Pupre peer which took a month almost, so thought they had it solved out. But the has nothing to do with delay in production or supply problems or redesign of products. Is taking your money and running which also has other names.
But yes, what can I say. You do have a point.... 
02-05-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,577
Joined on 10-12-2006
Post #: 1239
Post ID: 20550
Reply to: 20549
Mark Up/Profit?
fiogf49gjkf0d
I can't remember if you've pre-paid the entire cost of a unit, or if you've just paid a fraction as a deposit. In any case, did your distributor actually pay all the money you've paid so far to Pure Power, or did the distributor already keep some of your money for himself? If the latter...


Good Luck,
Paul
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Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,052
Joined on 05-28-2004
Post #: 1240
Post ID: 20551
Reply to: 20543
I think you will be fine.
fiogf49gjkf0d
Eli, I do not think that it is PurePower objective to grab your money and to run.  They are notorious with delays and it certainly might be unpleasant. With all due respect: 2 month delay is kind of nothing and if the unit does work as it expected then it well worth it. As it happened many time before I wish PurePower would give more realistic and exact expectations to customers. It is not a big deal and not uncommon to have 2-3 month lag period and it would be nice if PurePower was clean about it. If you still want you will have your unit eventually and if you do not want it then I am sure they they will return your money.

I have a friend of mine ordered PP3000+ in October I believe. He is an industry person and they promised to him “expedited” service. We, he was calling me again and again bitching that PurePower keep dealing it. He got this unit in December eventually. Paradoxically or not but this is how it works with them. PurePower is not Amazon and if you adjust your expectation then you will be less frustrated.
Two things that bother me in your post.

First is your distributor. Sorry but he is an asshole. A distributor is not the person who moves the boxes and takes large percentage in his pocket but it is a person who embraces liability. Sine you bought from official distributor in Europe you have no business even to talk with PurePower. Your distributor is your men and even if PurePower close operation and emigrate to Mars your distributor is the one who responsible for the deal.
Second is that I and not wild that they “are testing some "new" units with a change in design”.  Frankly those changes in design without official announcement of the changes is not something that I feel comfortable.

The Cat

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Page 62 of 96 (1,911 items) Select Pages:  « First ... « 60 61 62 63 64 » ... Last »
   Target    Threads for related reading   Most recent post in related threads   Forum  Replies   Views   Started 
  »  New  What lives in Symmetric Sound?..  The beginning of our journey is ALWAYS symmetrical...  Audio Discussions  Forum     19  167848  05-28-2004
  »  New  Always check power-line polarity...  The Cost of Knowing...  Audio For Dummies ™  Forum     11  106307  07-10-2005
  »  New  RAAL “Water Drop” tweeter for Macondo...  Your comment takes me by surprise...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     77  896163  02-16-2007
  »  New  My feelings about new exciting audio products..  Vacuumstate...  Audio Discussions  Forum     25  256063  04-30-2007
  »  New  Musique Concrete horns..  These are now sold as Kornhent products...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     6  104737  06-12-2007
  »  New  Compression drivers and the “clean signal”...  The NEW “Compression drivers and the clean signal”....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     14  157621  07-12-2007
  »  New  Digi Redux; Drive 1 transport and iDAT-44+ DAC..  Confirmation and Relief...  Didital Things  Forum     26  219135  09-28-2007
  »  New  Metal domes..  Try the one Lansche is using...  Audio Discussions  Forum     6  76049  11-08-2007
  »  New  The power AC Outlets?..  Where to Pick Up the Gong?...  Audio Discussions  Forum     2  41725  10-31-2008
  »  New  The Avicenna's failure is the great Avicenna success!..  New life for Avicenna...  Audio Discussions  Forum     8  80844  02-03-2009
  »  New  Internet and electricity..  Suboptimal. . ....  Didital Things  Forum     1  28127  01-07-2010
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