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  »  New  Wilson Audio and the Moore's law..  Sneak peak of modesty...  Audio News Forum     19  53389  04-26-2009
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12-17-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
tuga


Posts 174
Joined on 12-26-2007

Post #: 1
Post ID: 17533
Reply to: 17533
A primer on high-end marketing: Wilson XLF
fiogf49gjkf0d
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBwSA0lcM-U&hd=1


"Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira Pascoaes
12-17-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,534
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 2
Post ID: 17534
Reply to: 17533
Alexandria XLF, why not?
fiogf49gjkf0d

Why not? Wilson for many years each 2-3 years updates own flagman. They had Grand Slamm’s number of revisions where they constantly change tweeters, other driver and resistors in crossovers, introducing new rounds of opportunities for the customers… and dealers. Ten they renamed Grand Slamm into Alexandria and it had own I believe 4 or 5 revisions. The new Alexandria XLF is a normal transaction for Wilson. I think in 2013-14 then will introduce Wilson Cleopatra and then will be Cleopatra MK2, MK2.1A and then Cleopatra Supreme. I do not see anything wrong with it; this is how they pay their mortgages and how they feed the consumption beast. 

So, Alexandria XLF has in some way larger box, a new tweeter (that is Wilson signature update) and reconfigurable port. The larger box is fine; the new tweeter is also great. The reconfigurable port is laughable for an acoustic system that pretends to be good. The Wilson’s signature 4th Order bandpass design is of cause the biggest liability of the speaker, not to mention that any civilized acoustic system that pretend to be ultimate must have a separate LF section and separate ULF section. It is not surprise that the owners of large Wilson frequently use their Wilsons with subwoofers.

Still, I understand that Wilson most likely will not go for separate dedicated LF section, in the way how he did 20 year ago in WAMM as to get “pushy” sound from Alexandria is not the Wilson’s objective. They keep the Alexandria line in order to let the idiots to sell for them smaller Wilsons. All those Framers and Mikelsons keep promoting the MAXX and other crappie smaller models that are being sold from under the protection of the Alexandria performance. The larger Wilsons always did fine and that fineness is presume to the small Wilsons (including MAXX) that always were garbage. I can absolutely assure you that in year or two you will see the new Alexandria XLF fabric tweeter be employed in MAXX and Watt Poppy, Sasha, Dasha … or whatever names they will come up with.

One more moment. The price of the Alexandria XLF looks a bit conspicuous. They want $200K, and it is very insignificant jump from $178K they wanted from Alexandria-regulara.  In audio industry nowadays two way MDF-made monitors cost $100K. Typically Wilson set the aggressive [price for the new flagman and then raise priced for the whole line as the winning technologies of the flagman get filtered down to the subsequence models. In this case Wilson decided virtually to hold the price. Does it mean that the Wilson feels that $200K is some kind of price of market saturation? If so then it would be an interesting message.  The Street price for the new Alexandria XLF will be let say $160K, it still give a good room for MAXX to hang around $70K-$80K….

Anyhow, will we see the 4 section Wilsons loudspeakers from $250K-$300K with near 100dB sensitivity? That would make even person like myself willing to hear it. David, how about Wilson Prostokvasha model with sealed boxes and 2 separate LF modules? For sure your can put in there new tweeters….

Rgs,
Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
12-18-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
jessie.dazzle


Paris, France
Posts 456
Joined on 04-23-2006

Post #: 3
Post ID: 17540
Reply to: 17533
Feigned sincerity
fiogf49gjkf0d
I'll refrain from commenting on the performance of the Alexandria; I've heard it once and am willing to keep an open mind on the grounds that the installation may not have been correctly set up; it was at an audio show paired with Audio Research gear, in a huge double suite, so I assume it was set up with some degree of care; the room however may have simply been too big.
 
But about the Wilson video: At the risk of deviating into an area outside the intent of this site, I'm prompted to ask, what the hell is up with this style of presenting? It's really become a cliché...  The "sincere" fixed gaze into space (especially of the marketing guy), the speaking on a constant, slightly slow "beat", the swelling orchestral chords in the background, and of course the premeditated hand waving (the very second I heard Dave's voice, I knew he would soon appear waving his hands around). I immediately associate it all with a lack of real substance, incompetence or just plain scam artists. I'm sure Dave Wilson is competent but he should remember that he's located in Utah, a state with a looooong history of harboring an unnaturally high concentration of world-class scammers... He'd appear far more credible if he'd drop the act and speak more passionately and naturally as he almost starts to do at one point when he gets into the more technical aspects.
 
Subaru understands and mocks this style of presenting very effectively in the following video, which really would be funny if it were not so true (they themselves are no exception): 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lm6v4XsUpY
 
To learn how to do it right, take a notes from Goodsoundclub member Many Sandler's videos on presenting.

jd*


How to short-circuit evolution: Enshrine mediocrity.
12-18-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,534
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 4
Post ID: 17541
Reply to: 17540
The style of presenting.
fiogf49gjkf0d
 jessie.dazzle wrote:
But about the Wilson video: At the risk of deviating into an area outside the intent of this site, I'm prompted to ask, what the hell is up with this style of presenting? It's really become a cliché...  The "sincere" fixed gaze into space (especially of the marketing guy), the speaking on a constant, slightly slow "beat", the swelling orchestral chords in the background, and of course the premeditated hand waving (the very second I heard Dave's voice, I knew he would soon appear waving his hands around). I immediately associate it all with a lack of real substance, incompetence or just plain scam artists. I'm sure Dave Wilson is competent but he should remember that he's located in Utah, a state with a looooong history of harboring an unnaturally high concentration of world-class scammers... He'd appear far more credible if he'd drop the act and speak more passionately and naturally as he almost starts to do at one point when he gets into the more technical aspects.

I disagree with Jessie’s criticism of the style of presenting. I feel that video was perfect and it delivered, in my view, exactly all subliminal messages that had to be delivered. There is nothing wrong in using cliché. The reason why some sale mechanism becomes cliché is because something works more frequently with given specific target market. People call some music warhorse not without reasons and people use cliché in sales because the cliché do sales. I think Wilson know how is his customers, what they will bite and if anything they do know how to sell. So, in my view the video was perfect: informative, persuasive and conservative enough to fulfill the demands of perspective customers. Wilson made another Grand Slamm. They did not produce a boring car with make “Mediocrity” and they did not make multi-horn loaded loudspeaker. They continue third line, introduce an expected gradual improvement and I do not feel that they need to say anything more or anything else then what they have express in this video. I personally would like do not see their sale guy in the video but I personally would like to see any of them…. I would like to see instead of the sales guys some kind of “application engineer” but it is me… Still, I find the video as is was perfectly fine.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
12-18-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
tuga


Posts 174
Joined on 12-26-2007

Post #: 5
Post ID: 17542
Reply to: 17541
Brilliant...but nauseating.
fiogf49gjkf0d
I agree with both of you: in my opinion this kind of presentation is really very effective on it's target public, but I have a hard time keeping my lunch in even before DW begins his visionary "insights".

Here's another example -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPX0Dvt7XCM

Cheers,
Ric


P.S.: Romy, have you made changes to the website SW? Formatting problems with MacOS/Safari have returned (I now need to press the return key twice to get paragraph).


"Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira Pascoaes
12-19-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,534
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 6
Post ID: 17544
Reply to: 17542
The Great Wall of ….Wilson.
fiogf49gjkf0d

 tuga wrote:
I agree with both of you: in my opinion this kind of presentation is really very effective on it's target public, but I have a hard time keeping my lunch in even before DW begins his visionary "insights".

Wilson Audio has own YouTube channel, where all their videos are piled up.

http://www.youtube.com/user/wilsonaudiospeakers

If you look for a few of them then you see the same message delivered in the very same style – I guess they are perfectly in their right to chose the style of the message that work good for them. Wilson Audio is well developed company marketing-wise and they can afford do not make idiotic comments like some other young companies do. The people who would get themselves involved with into Alexandria XLF most likely not the individuals who buy first loudspeaker in their life. I am sure that there are some of them who do buy first loudspeaker as the use Wilson Audio as some kind of Robb Report choice but we do not talk about them seriously.  So, my feeling that the whole target market to this and any other video that I have seen about Alexandria is the people who already have some kind of large Wilsons (and there are a lot of them out there) and now they need to upgrade it to the Alexandria XLF. The whole stressing of the new MF driver and the new Tweeter and slightly larger box is a direct reference to the fact that it is not upgradable (as they did with Grand Slamms) but the new model needed to be purchased. As far as I concern it was right message for Wilsons. BTW, they have another video out there that is clearly targeted to different market segment, the video what they show off smaller speakers and stress how much they popular in China. I am absolutely convinced that they have another video in Chinese language and it show David Wilson eating with chopsticks and his wife watering flowers planed in Chinese vase of Tang dynasty….

 tuga wrote:
P.S.: Romy, have you made changes to the website SW? Formatting problems with MacOS/Safari have returned (I now need to press the return key twice to get paragraph).

I am not sure what you are talking about and I do not know what SW is. I do not have Mac machine and if I need to test anything for Mac I use Safari emulator.  I know that MacOS/Safari does format the things differently but I have no way to see it. If you have any problem (or anybody else) then can you just send me an email with screen shot or explanation of what is wrong. Thanks.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
12-19-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,534
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 7
Post ID: 17545
Reply to: 17544
I you run Wilson Company.
fiogf49gjkf0d

Here is an interesting brain exercise for somebody who does not feel that it “deviated into an area outside the intent of this site”…

Pretend that you are David Wilson and you run a company that has some following and marketing success. You introduce a new flagmen model and you would like people pay attention to what you have done. What would you do? I mean what you would be able to say about your new model that from one side to be true, did not sound like BS, and from another side give credit to your integrity and design capacity? Make your proposals if you wish.

I run my own loudspeaker company and if I find myself in David Wilson show then I would do the following: I would sit in front of camera and explain that I made a new loudspeaker and address the imperfections that in my view exist in my old loudspeaker.  Then I would in very fine derails enumerate all sonic problems that in my view exist in my old design. Enumerate and to explain it with details and illustration that the last deaf edits would be able to acknowledge it. Well, I do not sale speakers to others but this is how I sell speakers to myself and I assure you that I am much demanded customer.

http://www.goodsoundclub.com/Forums/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=432

Well, I am sure that I never will work for Wilson sales and I think the Wilson sales will never will work for me….

Anyhow, if you have any interesting idea how Alexandria XLF might be sold then feel free to share.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
12-20-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
ArmAlex
Iran
Posts 81
Joined on 02-15-2009

Post #: 8
Post ID: 17552
Reply to: 17545
Wilson advertisement
fiogf49gjkf0d

it would certainly have Musikverein element in it for the beginning. Let's say the hall is full of audience, the curtains are closed and players are tunning their instruments, they start to play while curtains are opening then people surprising  see instead of orchestra there is a pair of ALX!!! and Dave is the conductor. Armen
01-04-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,534
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 9
Post ID: 17658
Reply to: 17533
About Wilson XLF by Robert Harley
fiogf49gjkf0d


Robert Harley wrote I his blog about his listening of the XLF.

http://www.avguide.com/blog/wilson-s-new-xlf-flagship-loudspeaker-world-exclusive-preview

The Robert’s article is hilarious.  He compiled all imaginable meaningless descriptions of Sound that the retarded audiophiles are accustomed to recognize as “reasons to buy” and damped the reasons in his article.  I am sure that his idiots-colleague will cope and paste the “phrases” form Harley posts into their stupid writings, the way how they brainlessly do for years, breading the meaningless crap they write.

I was very taken but his comments about the “dramatically better sounding in the midrange”. I wonder: why a few years ago when Wilson introduced the Alexandria he did not report the “underperforming midrange”? At that time I did listen the Alexandria and I did report that MF has problems. Where was the Robert Harley “expertise” at that time? In a contrary, Mr. Harley was grooving over himself at that time very much as he does now, defecating from his mouth meaningless adjectives.  It is clear the if the new XLF has “dramatically better midrange” then the old Alexandria has “dramatically worse midrange”. Why this problem with midrange the “expert” Robert Harley was not able to recognize before?

Well, do not ask yourself the above question too hard as it all meaningless. Robert Harley does what all young girls in strip joins do – daily wave the asses, arch the backs, and pull underwear out. The next 2 years passed, Wilson made a next recursive model, light up the switch and said to his ordinary suspect strippers: “Fetch!” So, Robert went to do what Robert do, to publicize that the new endeavored deserver distribution and purchase. I wonder if he does not get bored from himself.

It is not that I claim that Wilson XLF has no new qualities that deserve or not deserve to be considers. I have no businesses to do those claims. I however absolutely insist in gross disqualification of the meaninglessness and emptiness that Robert Harley has expressed about Wilson XLF.

A good question: why in such case I do pay attention of public to the Robert Harley’s next verbal brain fart.  Good question. You see, Robert Harley is a top echelon of strippers and Wilson XLF is one of the leaders of TAS-pushed Sound. Tomorrow you will see that the very same attitude and the very same language will be filtered down to the lower tier of the writing whores. All those pips of the lovers level who defibrillate to live all those Kharmas (are’t they gone yet?), Magico (the most horrible crap imaginable), MBL (with potency of a rooster after castration), Aerial (do I need to say?), Revel (with smell of marble statute), Schweikert (is it Schweikert  or Schicklgruber?) will be model their literature idiocy after Robert/Wilson model, will model in the way how they do for years. It is not that Robert Harley is some kind of “leader” just they idiots who work in the indicts are too restricted to invent anything ne and the will brainlessly replicate what was done before them. So, in a way by this post I am complaining with the name of the thread: a primer on high-end marketing.

Rgs, Romy The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
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  »  New  Wilson Audio and the Moore's law..  Sneak peak of modesty...  Audio News Forum     19  53389  04-26-2009
  »  New  About Wilson Audio Loudspeakers..  Nagra HD?...  Audio Discussions  Forum     53  243828  10-05-2005
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