nl wrote:

Systems like these are all about understanding the emotional content of the music, not about Sound.

 …the theory that you not correctly presented BTW. Is it in an amp with a half-dozen series transformers Sakuma has the “killing bass”?  The Sakuma amps are bandwidth limited by default, it is what BTW Sakuma went to DSET to fight the bandwidth limitations. Even him with severely bandwidth-imitated playback and with amazingly bandwidth-dear sources (did you even used Denon-102?) felt that he needs wider bandwidth. BTW, there is not such a thing as “optimal loading for tubes and therefore optimal energy transfer + noise rejection”. All those stories were invented by the marketing guy who use to runs the “Direct Heating” magazine and who invited the whole Sakuma myth. The same goes with Tamura/Tango. They are not particularly good transformers (I mean the nowadays mass-production) – they just the pop-transformers of Japanese market. If they were made in Canada then they would be called Hammond…

Anyhow, I am glad that “Sakuma ideas” in amplification works for you. I think you are wrong in assessment of Sakuma sound but I would not argue with you. You always have an opportunity to discover that there is something “more open” out there.

...you are too categorical and are on the boundary to be phanatical... Everybody and his ears. You can be sure I listened and owned many kinds of amps and my friend built some 40-50 non-Sakuma amps before he began with trans coupling and built another 40-50 ones. My sources are very good and tweaked to death and my speakers are microscopes and not particularly tube-friendly(Tannoy recommends 300w SS in documentation). No problems for my 50w Sakuma-like PP with Tamura iron.
The words about Tamura and Tango are real stand-up thank you. Few day ago I finished Joseph Flavius and don't want another Jews war here - so please - tone down my friend...

I am categorical but very much not phanatical, it is interesting that you brought phanatisizm in context of Sakuma discussion. I am categorical in the facts about the sound that Sakuma demonstrated, and allegedly continue demonstrate via his “phanatic” followers. I might see some justifications of it in some aspects of Sakuma cultural and technical circumstances but I do not see interests to dig it deeper. For me the Sakuma’s “ideas” of the ideas of somebody who built 6020534 amplifiers is equally irrelevant, I have my own ideas with which I am comfortable. It is not to mention that someone who built hundreds amps usually is absolutely clueless about sound.

Mmhifi, you might take personally whatever makes you to feel better but it has nothing to with facts. Anyone who has very rudimental understanding of transformers instead of admiration to a fictional character might recognize what I am taking about. Ironically, I am not against transformer coupling. I juts has no idea why anything about Sakuma has to do with “interesting” transformer-related sound.

mmhifi wrote:

I finished Joseph Flavius and don't want another Jews war here - so please - tone down my friend

Romy the Cat wrote:

Anyone who has very rudimental understanding of transformers instead of admiration to a fictional character might recognize what I am taking about. Ironically, I am not against transformer coupling. I juts has no idea why anything about Sakuma has to do with “interesting” transformer-related sound.

 I do know why it is necessary for anybody tell you anything – use your own judgment. Leaving aside the advantages and disadvantages of transformer coupling use you own common sense to think about the bandwidth of the transformers loaded with series magnetics. We are all agree that SET amp with output transformer have challenge with bandwidth. Better lower end is problematic for high end and vice versa. So, a mandatory output transformer from a perspective bandwidth might be viewed as a band-path filter. Now, we have not one output transformer but input transformer, coupling transformers or a series of band-path filters, which makes the band-path of very high order. Surely the input transformers and coupling transformers is much easier to make wide bandwidth but then the phase shifts at HF begin to bubble up and a few other things…  Ok let me I will give you an interesting lead:  did anybody pay attention that all coupling transformers-loaded amplifiers (among those that I heard) sound in a similar way as the amps with high voltage output tube that run over 1KV on plate. Did you ever think why?

Anyhow, I under no circumstances would like people to have this post as some kind of anti-coupling transformers post. There is nothing wrong with transformers coupling. But in anything shell be a reasonable sense. Yes, “some” transformer might “improve” sound and there are even freaks that put after bad SS amps a good 1:1 transformer to cure the SS nastiness. However, I do see a lot of “sense” in Sakuma-style transformers using. I refuse to accept not the topological the circuitry decisions but the actual sound that I heard via those amps. Was it due to the transformers or due to many other things that Sakuma did? I have no idea. However, it was very huge disassociation between the BS that was spreading about him, my expectation and the actual not even sound but rather the way how he was trying to get sound. There was something extremely sloppy in what he did. It was kind of almost “as is” or accidental sound, in addition to be very poor sound and I did not recognize a lot of thoughts behind this sound.

I do not know why I was bitching about it. Most of the people are getting home accidental sound and when I witness it I do not complain – I know that they are accidental people in audio. Sakuma, however, was sold to me differently and I properly do not feel good about my stupid gullibility…

Romy the Cat wrote:

did anybody pay attention that all coupling transformers-loaded amplifiers (among those that I heard) sound in a similar way as the amps with high voltage output tube that run over 1KV on plate. Did you ever think why?

Romy the Cat wrote:

Yes, “some” transformer might “improve” sound and there are even freaks that put after bad SS amps a good 1:1 transformer to cure the SS nastiness.

Romy the Cat wrote:

I refuse to accept not the topological the circuitry decisions but the actual sound that I heard via those amps. Was it due to the transformers or due to many other things that Sakuma did? I have no idea.

drdna wrote:

Would you then suggest that this approach demands the DSET approach to succeed?

The DSET resolves all problems with SET amplification; it is not surprise that Sakuma went there. BTW, my familiarity with Sakuma’s DSET was something that encouraged me to thing in DSET direction.

drdna wrote:

By good transformer, you mean an amorphous core?

Why necessarily amorphous? A good transformer is the one that sounds good in context of a given requirements and expectations, regardless what core was used. BTW, I think Tango and Tamura did amorphous core lone time back. I do not claim negative thing about Tango/Tamura, I just say that they are regular Japanese transformers. Regular US transformer (likes from Electra-Print, Plitron and so on) are ugly but Tango/Tamura finished in sexy enclosures. This made many audio people to feel that Tango/Tamura are some kind of piece of exotic Asian magnetics. It is not necessarily the case. I personally never had those transformers but I have a number of people who were solicited with the same stories about samurai transformers. They did not report that they were “bad” but rather as nothing spherical. Hearing it from the peoples who spend very heavy attention to the transformers I found that it was corralling with what I heard from the amps the used the contemporary Tango/Tamura. I have no doubts that Tango/Tamura might do some high-end or custom magnetics but we, the western people have no asses to it or knowledge about it. I would not be surprised BTW is nowadays the Tango/Tamura use the Chinese transformers rebranded as the  Tango/Tamura as I have seen a number of amazingly cheap Chinese transformers that looks remarkably similar to what Tango/Tamura does.

drdna wrote:

Exactly correct, but just why I have suggested a systematic approach to analyze the effects of different components in certain topological components. If from a collection of disparate observations, theory can emerge, then we do not need to continue to rely on accidental good sound.

I might not agree complete with it but I do found that the concept properly implemented might be semi-educational if not entertaining. I already am thinking about it and probably next week will try to put some kind of prototype in place.

“The Official Concert in Celebration of the 70th Anniversary of the Founding of Tateyama City. The Sakuma demonstrates his amplifiers in an ancient temple in Tateyama city. Altec A5 speaker system driven by his amplifiers (845, 211, 6336A etc) reproduces Jazz, classical music, chanson and Japanese popular music…”

http://www10.big.or.jp/~dh/

An interesting concept to have an “Audio Concert” but I do not think that they demonstrated interesting Sound. It is not that I am not a big fun of Sakuma vision but rather I feel that they stress just an importance of amplification that is as dams as the importance of just cable elevators. Still, to have a City Board of Education sponsor an audio concert in ancient temple is might be a cool idea. The guy who runs the DIRECT HEATING is a tough marketing guys, so I am sure that video clips will be available on YouTube soon.