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11-10-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,656
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 161
Post ID: 8816
Reply to: 8815
Given Enough Time
fiogf49gjkf0d
Well, I believe it!

Like I've said more tiimes than anyone wants to hear, the stupid electricity has mimicked every single hi-fi fault I've ever encountered, along with producing a goodly number of its own special effects.

It's not that I doubted your iso-tranny-to-the-rescue story as much as I was waiting for the other shoe to drop.

That the shoe did not drop straight down is no surprise to me.

Meanwhile, I keep my fingers crossed.


Best regards,
Paul S
11-11-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
horny
Posts 28
Joined on 11-19-2007

Post #: 162
Post ID: 8819
Reply to: 8816
Electricity yes, how about humidity?
fiogf49gjkf0d
Environmental Effects on the Speed of Sound:

http://www.rane.com/pdf/eespeed.pdf


11-12-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,656
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 163
Post ID: 8832
Reply to: 8819
A Pilgrim's Progress
fiogf49gjkf0d
Looking back, I suppose I have only been aware of Bad Electricity as a Big Issue for maybe 10 years or so.  Before that, I just did not listen in a way that made it so obvious (and so pervasive!), and so, naturally, I did not have a system that made it so obvious.  Sure, I have long been aware that bad electricity can make fuzz or "veils", and I took various measures over the years to try to cure the problems I did hear.  But I am sad to say that as I have "progressed" with my listening and my system, Bad Electricity has more than kept pace, setting me back at an exponential rate, something like 2 or 3-to-1 regression-to-progress, worst cases, in both the frequency and the scope of interference.  So when other people talk about their great systems and the great sound they are getting, but they never mention Bad Electricity, I actually wonder how this can be!

I have not had anywhere near the sorts of trouble with temp and humidity that Bad Electricity has caused me.  I have had no significant problems with listening room wave propagation that I could say were tied to humidity.  The worst things I've gotten from humidity were mold on my LPs and corroded metal parts.  This has been a PITA, but nothing like the sort of grief wrought by the %#$@!&* electricity!  As foir stadiums and halls, etc., I wish they'd find ways besides DSP to "cure" the "problems".

Best regards,
Paul S
11-12-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,155
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 164
Post ID: 8836
Reply to: 8832
The Bad Electricity factor.
fiogf49gjkf0d
 Paul S wrote:
… Bad Electricity has more than kept pace, setting me back at an exponential rate…
Witch actually brings up a very interning view: how much the sound of Bad Electricity entrenched into our perception of sound of audio elements? Yes, some people do live in very rural areas where bad electricity is perhaps a lesser factor but the majority of folks live in more or less urban environments where Bad Electricity is always a huge factor. Furthermore, if I claim that there is no know to me so far Bad Electricity curing devoices then do I have to subtract from any comment about audio the comment denominator of Bad Electricity of the contamination of sound by the bi-products of the power-treatment devises. Let see, if a reviewer post a review with some pretentious for more or less objectivity then sh/e feel a need to enumerate the associated equipment to demonstrate to a reader the context of the “assessment”. OK, I might understand it to a degree. However, the quality of Electricity impact sound much more then differences between the amplifiers or speakers brands or topologies. Why don’t audio people talk about this?

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
11-12-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,656
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 165
Post ID: 8843
Reply to: 8836
Sorting Out BEP
fiogf49gjkf0d
Maybe people who don't complain really don't perceive such a big, pervasive proiblem, for any number of reasons.  While I find it hard to believe others would not hear the problems when I hear them, maybe other systems +/- minimize or homoginize the Bad Electricity Problems (BEP)?

When I stop to think about it, I think there is more to "resolution" than the bas reilef portrayal that most audio nuts are aiming at.  And perhaps it is something in the ability to more fully "resolve" music (as opposed to sound) that actually makes a system progressively more susceptable to the various manifestations of BE?

Whatever the reason(s), I did not have such serious problems with the several effects of BE on the Sound before the Sound at its best was so sorted out.

I guess this theory makes the problem either paradoxical or ironic...

Yes, the scale of BEP surely does raise questions about reviewers' observations and comparisons of components in a constantly-changing system (as though the constant changing in and of itself were not enough...).

And I'm afraid that it only gets more puzzling for me when the reviewer mentions the benefits of the power conditioners.

Best regards,
Paul S
11-14-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,155
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 166
Post ID: 8862
Reply to: 2931
The Quantum Tunneling?
fiogf49gjkf0d

OK, can somebody explain it to me as I’m a 3 year old?

http://www.synergisticresearch.com/page/ac_conditioning

I do not claim that it is BS I juts would like to know what it is. Jack Bybee’s Quantum Toys, if it is the same, works very badly. Should I expect the synergistic search’s Quantum Tunneling be the same?

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
11-14-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
drdna
San Francisco, California
Posts 526
Joined on 10-29-2005

Post #: 167
Post ID: 8863
Reply to: 8862
What is quantum tunneling?
fiogf49gjkf0d
There is no mystery to quantum mechanics. Tunneling is a deceptive term, as it refers to an imaginary "hill" of potential that must be overcome.

Imagine it like miniature golf. There is a big hill with a tiny hole at the bottom and you want to get the ball to the other side. You have to hit the ball with enough energy to get over the hill, but sometimes a low energy ball can get through the hole into the tunnel at the bottom, if it is hit just right -- but it is a 1 in a 100 shot.

But why?

Take it a step further. There is a hole on the other side where we want the golf ball to end up. When we hit the high energy balls they are traveling too fast to drop into the hole. Only the slow moving ball that "sneaks" through the tunnel can have the correct speed to drop into the hole.

That is why we use quantum mechanics in things like scanning tunneling electron microscopes.

So what is the "hill and tunnel" in real life? It is because all electrons and subatomic particles exist not as constant objects, but actually as probability expressions of an energy field. They have the properties we expect MOST of the time, but sometimes will act in a low probability way and do what classic physics would say is impossible (classic physics is like saying there is a hill, but no tunnel at the bottom -- no low probability shots).

As to synergistic research, it sounds like pure marketing.

Adrian
11-14-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,656
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 168
Post ID: 8866
Reply to: 8862
More (and better) Tesla?
fiogf49gjkf0d
Did anyone read the "Letter" from the firm's Guiding Light?

According to him, "Quantum Tunneling" in this case is subjecting constructed cables/circuits to a 2,000,000 volt HF pulse/modulation for "an exact duration of time", a process that enhances electron flow (or something like that...).

The guy goes on at some length describing how the sounds of his various cables are +/- suited to this or that application.  He seems to be saying that all his various cable designs contribute something, and his best cables combine all the contributions of all the lesser cables in order to contribute the most.

I did not get a clear notion of how quantum tunneling applied to his AC treatment box, but it looks like the he uses some sort of EM field to "treat" the AC as it passes through a "quantum tunneled" wire/outlet assembly that is housed in an expensive plastic box.

I think I remember reading that Jack Bybee used some sort of nano-crystaline ferric dust or something that is supposed to quiet the noise riding on the current.  However stupid it sounds, it is my understanding that this is what they use to quite things down for SONAR.

I thought the "Tesla" (Van de Graaff) video was a nice touch.  It took me straight back to the physics lab in high school.

I also love the way Tesla is so widely embraced now.  I think the Serbs and the Croations would start it up again, fighting over Tesla's origins, if it weren't for the UN presence there.  Anyway, nice to see that his stock is soaring again.

In case anyone wonders, I always flinch when I read this sort of drivvel, which shows (as if there were any doubt) how desparate I am...

Best regards,
Paul S
11-14-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
drdna
San Francisco, California
Posts 526
Joined on 10-29-2005

Post #: 169
Post ID: 8867
Reply to: 8866
Bybee and QUantum noise
fiogf49gjkf0d
 Paul S wrote:
I think I remember reading that Jack Bybee used some sort of nano-crystaline ferric dust or something that is supposed to quiet the noise riding on the current.  However stupid it sounds, it is my understanding that this is what they use to quite things down for SONAR.
Sorry, I just assumed it would be obvious.  Low level noise is created in SONAR applications due to quantum tunneling effects.  Going back to my miniature golf analogy, it is like noise is leaking through that tunnel at the bottom of the hill. Yes, quantum tunneling CREATES noise.  Bybee's devices act to plug up the hole, in effect.

As far as this other website, with the Tesla coils, two million volts power surges, and quantum tunneling, if you can't figure out how all these seemingly disparate buzzwords fit together, it's actually simply because it is all totally made up marketing BS.

Smile
Adrian
11-14-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,656
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 170
Post ID: 8868
Reply to: 8867
But...what if it works anyway???
fiogf49gjkf0d
I don't remember them putting it this way, but maybe the 2 X 106 V pulse blasts a Quantum-Tunnel-less tunnel through the wire/assembly?  How cool would that be?

Whether or not this is the case, I think they should claim it is.  Anyway, they seem to be all over the "lay" of the cables, and all that neat-o stuff...

Sorry, guys; I guess I'm going to have to get outside help (again...)

Money back guarantee?  The cables are a slam dunk!  And I'm sure I can come up with a logical reason to try the AC-helper stuff, too...

(not that I'm desparate)

(oh, yeah.. I already said that...)

One true thing is that they don't have to know what they've done or how they've done it, really, in order for it to be of use.

(not that I'm desparate, or anything...)

Best regards,
Paul S
11-27-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,155
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 171
Post ID: 8986
Reply to: 2931
The el-catastrophe!
fiogf49gjkf0d

Yesterday there was the worst I can remember in my long-lasting with electricity. I mean it was not just bad it was beyond any description. My preamp has 126 steps (near a db per click) and during an average electricity day I listening it at 50-60 slicks. Yesterday at 10 clicks the sound was so loud and so “face hitting” that at the click #12 I experienced a physical pain. The speakers sound in complete mono and I had a feeling that the drivers have lost their suspension. Each channel produced pretty much a single note of 2000Hz-3000Hz – truly amazing. Furthermore, I heard how the diaphragms were resisting sounding – a very strange effect. It sounded like someone scratched the diaphragms with finger nails. It was only at MF channels and I physically heard the sound of deformation of the cones. I initially thought that that what a few days back I was accidently driving my MF Vitavox S2 with unfiltered 300B then I damaged my driver but then I realized that I heard the sound of deformation of my MF cone at… the  left channel – the one that I did not use with during my DHT experiments.

I would sincerely believe that the system is terminally sick if I knew that there was nothing changed in my playback for… days, weeks and month. Today, it sounds near OK, in fact it does sound bad at all. The 12 hour of electricity change – what a difference!

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
11-27-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,656
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 172
Post ID: 8991
Reply to: 8986
The Persistence of Memory
fiogf49gjkf0d
What I find especially annoying is that I tend to "remember" the sounds/effects of the various electrical problems, so once I've heard them, I tend to recognize them more often thereafter.  This phenomenon keeps getting brought home to me in one situation after another.

As I have written elsewhere, I have figured out an empirical method of setting VTA, and this has afforded me far more consistent sound, in the mechanical sense.  In fact, the sound has been much better overall, way more often.  At the same time, the electrical problems have gotten more apparent as being just that, and still they are no less pernicious in terms of their effects on the presentation of music.  I am not hearing the (apparent) +/- magnification of slight tracking anomilies to the extent I did before, but the damned BE itself also seems to have a brain and "memory" to +/- mimic the effects.

In other words, the freaking Bad Electricity is not just variable, it is beginning to look/sound like it's as VARIABLE as the sound itself, and perhaps also the Music!

Best regards,
Paul S
11-27-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,155
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 173
Post ID: 8995
Reply to: 2931
The Audience Adept Response conditioners?
fiogf49gjkf0d

What the hell is it? I truly do not interested what it is all about. It is more or less new company

http://www.audience-av.com/conditioners/

… that for the last 2-3 year made a lot of good noise in the industry. The fun part is that they never made any specific comments what they do in their conditioners and when people on their behave make some claims then the claims sound very bogus. Sure a lot of people say positive things about the sound of Adept Response conditioners but it means shit to me, not to mention that in their positive subjective comment about the positive benefits of Adept Response’s contribution I see a lot of contradictions (among what I have read)

The Audience Adept Response has good press but it hardly has anything to do with sound. That only means that the guys who run marketing for Audience know how to kiss the right assess sand to butter up right people. To promote a power conditioners that has it’s operation sponsored by Harry Pearson is similar to wire an application to a kibbutz and to have Adolf Hitler as your reference…

I do not make any negative comments about Audience Adept Response unit – I never had them, never heard them, I feel curios about them but at the same time I am a bit disappointed with expertise of analyses those units were exposed to, at least publicly available. Does anybody can point out me to the description of how those conditioners work? In the case of power devises I do not need people tell me about sound of the devises – I do not believe them anyhow. I would like to know what is done, how is done and being kind of evolved user myself I would make my own estimated how interesting it might be.

The caT


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
11-28-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,656
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 174
Post ID: 9000
Reply to: 8995
Taking the Best Case (and making the worst of it)
fiogf49gjkf0d
Taking only the end results into consideration, and looking backward from there, the best sound I've gotten so far has been when the regular old electricity is at its best.  And despite my continual worrying about "problems" stemming from inter-component crosstalk, variable ground impedance, common mode noise, RFI and EMI, the fact is that I have not really been all that conscious of these other issues when the wall power is very good.  And this despite the sad fact that I am presently usiing a single, non-dedicated line for the hi-fi (although I do have a dedicated hi-fi-only ground).

So, if I actually focus, it seems like and "adequate for the whole system" power regenerator alone should do the trick, without all the additional "conditioning" and "isolation" that so far has proven to be a mixed bag at best and a can of worms at worst.

Reading along with the regenerator manufacturers, they often cite their desires to overcome large size, weight and heat as reasons for their latest "solutions" to power regeneration, as if we psychos care about that.  And this makes me wonder if perhaps the technology to do what needs doing is already developed but it was tossed aside because it was judged to be "too heavy" or "too hot" during operation?

But, naturally, I can't even be happy with a theoretical solution.  Rather, being of a restless mind, I am now wondering what I would hear if the electricity were somehow good for an extended period of time.  I have disclosed previously that I actually get giddy, and likley I am not too sharp, when the power suddenly snaps to.  If I had some time to calm down, would I start to hear effects from all the other electrical +/- "self-problems" I "know" exisit?

Best regards,
Paul S
11-28-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
serenechaos
lost alamos
Posts 86
Joined on 12-01-2007

Post #: 175
Post ID: 9001
Reply to: 9000
Vertex AQ
fiogf49gjkf0d

Anyone familiar with these? http://www.vertexaq.com/component/option,com_frontpage/Itemid,1/ 
I heard a demo @ RMAF; without, with, without again... 
Very effective. 
In that place, At that time, with that system, etc.  

Part of it is about electrical problem, part about vibrations getting into electrical components. 
I did try the "listen to end of wire through stethoscope while rubbing with penny, hear horrible scratchy noise, change to their wire with "magic box" and the noise went away." 
How that could affect SOUND, I don't really know, don't know if I buy all their explanation, but it sure made a huge difference. 

The typical bad electricity/good electricity difference, so I thought I'd mention it here, even though I don't understand what I heard... 

Robert

12-04-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,155
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 176
Post ID: 9081
Reply to: 2931
Tesla and Edison vs. Framer and McGowan.
fiogf49gjkf0d

It sounds bit childish, with the level of seriousness that  some American History Channels pop programs treat history,  but it might be fun and it looks like it is … free.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeA3MRtNaX4

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
12-04-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
drdna
San Francisco, California
Posts 526
Joined on 10-29-2005

Post #: 177
Post ID: 9082
Reply to: 9081
Free DVD
fiogf49gjkf0d
Free = yay!

I hope they explain the randomness and how it can be incorporated into power conditioners.

Adrian
12-08-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,656
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 178
Post ID: 9116
Reply to: 9082
What Other Freaks Are Talking About
fiogf49gjkf0d
I forget now what I was following, but I wound up at AVforum, where they were discussing power regenerators.

Although it sounds like most present efforts are digitally based inverters/wave generators, there were references to motor/generator systems as being around since the 1950's.  I still like this idea.

I also saw this:  http://www.powerware.com/ups/selector/solutionUPSConfig_PART.asp?RegionUPSID=387&cx=3

Most of this big, expensive stuff is for medical and lab equipment, that sort of thing. Hi-fi?  Who cares about that?

I am pissed to have to consider efficiency at all, but at over two HP to drive a 1 kW generator, one does start thinking about the bill.  However, I am also quite leery of contemporary digital switching, comparators and signal generators, which are basically there in the interest of efficiency.

Paul S
12-11-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
mmhifi
Israel
Posts 3
Joined on 12-12-2008

Post #: 179
Post ID: 9136
Reply to: 4695
PS300 and other stuff
fiogf49gjkf0d
I had PS300 and founded only 1 place it did the job - for my then Valhalled Linn LP12. At all other places it worsened sound. Eventually after 4 years it went south.
I tried no-label balanced isolated trans-didn't work for me but of course it doesn't say nothing... I do use Naim Armageddon psu for Linn(essentially isolating trans) and it's real good thing. I recommend highly to try Alan Maher power enhancers - amazing to my ears. I stopped thinking about power conditioners and IT's now. The additional cure to fight noise are Bybees - but you have to found right places for them-and the more Bybees the better. Work in my system big way.
12-18-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,155
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 180
Post ID: 9195
Reply to: 2931
Doug Blackburn about Torus RM15 Power devise.
fiogf49gjkf0d

It would not surprise for anyone that I do monitor what I going on with power treatment devises out there. Today I was reading Doug Blackburn’s review in Soundstage about Torus Power Conditioner.

http://www.soundstage.com/equipment/toruspower_rm15.htm

The Torus Power Conditioner is a plain-vanilla isolated transformer, similar to Equi=Tech. The Equi=Tech uses Maryland Toroids transformers; Torus uses Plastron transformers – big freaking deal. The Mr. Blackburn fantasies about the “unique transformer design of Torus” are juts his fantasies. The article has a number of factual inaccuracies – (how without them!) but the inaccuracies are not what I would like to talk about.

What I would like to point out is the very positive from my point of view moment: Doug Blackburn “reviewed” the Torus devise and during his tests he discovered that that Torus is inferior to another competitive product - ExactPower EP15A. Doug actually wrote about it despite that it might scare up the products under reviewing - it was a very good sign. The sign might be colored by the fact that the Soundstage’s publisher Doug Schneider I in a virtual payroll of ExactPower but let pretend that we do not know bout it. Let agree that it is very infrequent that a reviewer writhe objectively inferior review. Perhaps Torus Company did not put together attractive enough “stimulation package” or insist Doug Blackburn to return the unit and changed him for back shipping. Oh, no! If they do THAT then I am sure Mr. Blackburn would write that Torus Power Company is founded by Osama Bin Laden family, the Torus’ employee do not stop behind the school basses and Torus owner is requested sex offender. Perhaps it was something minor - like Torus refused to let Doug   to borrow a dozen of unit for next 10 years – I think they call it “the warranty testing”…

Anyhow, leaving the mockery aside, I think it was commendable for Doug Blackburn to write in his review of Torus unit the following:

“The EP15A produced a lower noise floor with a heightened sense of silence between notes and between tracks. It required extremely quiet listening conditions to pick this up, but it was clearly audible. The RM 15 produced a more silent noise floor than wall-outlet power, but it couldn’t equal the inky-black noise floor of the EP15A. Without the direct comparison, I don’t think I ever would have known there was a difference. Both units produced a pleasing musical experience, but the EP15A is a little more dynamic with a larger soundfield, a little more detail and some harmonic richness that’s not present with the Torus Power unit. Finally, the system’s bass reproduction with the EP15A was more controlled and defined -- tighter with less upper-bass fullness. The Torus Power unit’s bass was strong and deep, but a little fuller and warmer. “

The caT


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
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   Target    Threads for related reading   Most recent post in related threads   Forum  Replies   Views   Started 
  »  New  What lives in Symmetric Sound?..  The beginning of our journey is ALWAYS symmetrical...  Audio Discussions  Forum     19  175213  05-28-2004
  »  New  Always check power-line polarity...  The Cost of Knowing...  Audio For Dummies ™  Forum     11  112297  07-10-2005
  »  New  RAAL “Water Drop” tweeter for Macondo...  Your comment takes me by surprise...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     77  924584  02-16-2007
  »  New  My feelings about new exciting audio products..  Vacuumstate...  Audio Discussions  Forum     25  264743  04-30-2007
  »  New  Musique Concrete horns..  These are now sold as Kornhent products...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     6  108258  06-12-2007
  »  New  Compression drivers and the “clean signal”...  The NEW “Compression drivers and the clean signal”....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     14  163515  07-12-2007
  »  New  Digi Redux; Drive 1 transport and iDAT-44+ DAC..  Moray James SPDIF!...  Didital Things  Forum     27  230576  09-28-2007
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