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03-10-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
el`Ol
Posts 225
Joined on 10-13-2007

Post #: 21
Post ID: 6884
Reply to: 6882
Not new
 Romy the Cat wrote:

let me write up an article about the importance of super precise tweeters alignment and at next Danvers audio show this thing will be flying from your hands for $399.

http://www.ascendo.de
03-10-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 22
Post ID: 6885
Reply to: 6884
Oh, no, it is very much new! :-)

el`Ol, I have written about Ascendo System’s approach somewhere but what Ascendo does and what I say are different. I always stressed the anal retentive time aliment but I never stressed the level of precision that I am stressing it now. You might make your own experiment and confirm that going from 1dB precision to 1/12dB precision is auditable, if to know what to pay attention while we are listen.

It is not to mention that Ascendo and Macondo are at totally different realms of time aliment. I would even say that in case of Ascendo the adjustable head is not really necessary as the precision that they need might be accomplished by a good baffle design. Ascendo HF section is crossed at 3.2kHz. At 3.2kHz the length of the wave is 10.6cm with 1 degree of misalignment equal 0.9mm.  Macondo is crossed at 12.5kHz, that makes wave length 2.7cm with 1 degree of misalignment equal 0.075mm…

Rgs, Romy


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
03-11-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
el`Ol
Posts 225
Joined on 10-13-2007

Post #: 23
Post ID: 6888
Reply to: 6885
Sliding the tweeter

There are other designs of sliding plates that allow to get closer to the frame:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Einstellschlitten_W0QQitemZ230228751114QQihZ013QQcategoryZ8275QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

03-21-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 24
Post ID: 6957
Reply to: 6877
It's turning to the direction how I would like it to have…
 Romy the Cat wrote:
I was playing more with precision of my MF channel and I became convinced that I should not do it anymore and I should get better interfaces between the frame and the MF horn. So, I have decided to get a positioning table. I have absolutely no knowledge in the fields of machinery equipment. If someone know a source for one-two axis, 8”-12” long and 3-4” wide, sexy looking, not overly expensive positioning table with .001 precision then let me know. I will build an arm off the Macondo’s frame to hold the positioning table and will put my MF horn on it. The table on the picture above is very good but it is $180 each. It will be my way out if I do not found anything better.
Ok, I am getting somewhere with precise positioning of my MF channel. The .001mm slide-tables are hard-bolted and aligned on the MF horns and the 11” arm from the Macondo frame to the bottom of the slide-table is orders and will be done in a couple days.




"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
04-01-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 25
Post ID: 7064
Reply to: 6957
The new MF frame: Look, there is no hands, no hands.




"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
04-02-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
I.M.Distortion


Posts 9
Joined on 03-26-2008

Post #: 26
Post ID: 7066
Reply to: 7064
Macondo's alignment to listener

From were you set put a ladder tye a string to it were your head was 15 feet long, go to your horns that is 1000 hz and above put the string threw it go threw the back of it take your driver off measure to the back plate distance from mounting front add that to the string and put some tape on it. Make sure the string is threw the center of horn, Then repete on all horns the same way on both sides, then it will be time aligned. It will inprove quite a bit from were you have it now. good luck

04-02-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 27
Post ID: 7067
Reply to: 7066
“It will improve quite a bit from where you have it now”

Distortion,

All that might propose you is before making recommendations to “improve quite a bit” something at least to get some practical experience on the subject as from what you said there is a clear evidence that you have none. Otherwise there is truly no need to “advise” and to wish to others “good luck”.

Rgs, Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
04-02-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
I.M.Distortion


Posts 9
Joined on 03-26-2008

Post #: 28
Post ID: 7073
Reply to: 7067
Basic principles of sound
Dear Romy   Chapter 1 in the audio cyclopedia, you should read it because you are the won who lacks experiance when it come to building a sound system. #1 from were you listen to system from you should be able to look down the throat of every horn in your system. #2 From were you listen from you should have time alignment to every driver, that means every driver should be the same distance from you, and you have a system that has 4 drivers stuck on top of eachother and you thank that is time alignment. So the string idea that i talked about is the easy way to do it. #3 To get costs down when building a sound system, you want to have a clear idea of what you are doing and trying to achieve to get the best possible sound, not start with an abortion and try to carry it a few more years with hapless bad ideas. With the money you spent on the mistakes i could build a speaker system that sound better then the one you use and i would bet on that. I see the way you are, when someone would say something about your system you get rid of them so you can have the floor. I joined your club first ROMY because you were the least educated on the subject of AUDIO SOUND REPRODUCTION of all the other miss guided audio fruitcakes that don't have a clue. One day you will shake my hand and i will tell you i was the one that tryed to educate you in the audio field, but you will have a hearing aid by then because all the bad Distortion.
04-02-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 29
Post ID: 7074
Reply to: 7073
So far it is waste of time to read…

 I.M.Distortion wrote:
Dear Romy   Chapter 1 in the audio cyclopedia, you should read it because you are the won who lacks experiance when it come to building a sound system.

#1 from were you listen to system from you should be able to look down the throat of every horn in your system.

#2 From were you listen from you should have time alignment to every driver, that means every driver should be the same distance from you, and you have a system that has 4 drivers stuck on top of eachother and you thank that is time alignment. So the string idea that i talked about is the easy way to do it.

#3 To get costs down when building a sound system, you want to have a clear idea of what you are doing and trying to achieve to get the best possible sound, not start with an abortion and try to carry it a few more years with hapless bad ideas.

Dear, Distortion.

Unfortunately what you describe does not sound to me as “Basic principles of sound” but rather the “the basic principles of somebody who just read audio cyclopedia yesterday for a first time and has no brain to understand what he read”. Juts calm down and pay attention WHY I am so superbly confident that you never dealt with practicality of multi-way horn installation. After you actually do something and try then I would at least have an ability to explain to you why amongyou what you said was wrongly.  Meanwhile your level of understanding the subject and your general overlook is remarkably reminds to me that “angeloitacare” freak. I hope you are not him as you still might have a chance. Be advised that you sound identicalu with that “beyond the help” angeloitacare-freak…. and it is a very bad symptom.

 I.M.Distortion wrote:
With the money you spent on the mistakes i could build a speaker system that sound better then the one you use and i would bet on that.

Why do you worry about my money?  Worry about you own results. What you can “bet” I do not particularly care.

 I.M.Distortion wrote:
I see the way you are, when someone would say something about your system you get rid of them so you can have the floor.

I am not quite sure what you mean.  I would LOVE to have serious critical discussions about Macondo and about some concepts that I put in Macondo – BTW it is what this thread is for. If what you said above is something that you consider "serious" then you must not talk with me but you need to found that angeloitacare-idiot and create own community of  ”audio-intellectuals”.  As far as I concern all your 6 post at this site werewaste of time to read.

Romy the caT


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
04-02-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
I.M.Distortion


Posts 9
Joined on 03-26-2008

Post #: 30
Post ID: 7075
Reply to: 7074
Romy i was wrong about you
I am very happy that you did not suspend my account. Because i will prove to you in the future that my idea for time alignment is correct. I have only had one account with your web site, and your web forum is the only one i am a member of. Because i thought we had simualar audio passion's for horns, Also it has the best web layout and ease of use all other audio forum's. My back ground in audio is second generation, i will give you a clue my dad's picture is in the book you need to read Audio Cyclopedia By Howard M. Tremaine Second Edition. I have been playing around with horn's since 1982 when i came across a mint Altec 820 speaker enclosure and after i put that to a tube amp i was hooked for life on horn's. Still today i have not listened to a better 2 way system that was from a manufacture. Yes i have listened to costume setup's that were better. If you would like we could start basic principles of sound and go from there. I do not consintrate on one system, i have them in every room of my house. Distortion
04-02-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
I.M.Distortion


Posts 9
Joined on 03-26-2008

Post #: 31
Post ID: 7076
Reply to: 7075
Help improve Macondo's

The way you are going with the ajustible settup is correct but it allso needs a ball joint or swivel to angle the horn's in all directions to aim horn's to listener. SOLUTION'S ARE US Distortion

04-02-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
jessie.dazzle


Paris, France
Posts 456
Joined on 04-23-2006

Post #: 32
Post ID: 7077
Reply to: 7066
Proposed translation

I.M. Distortion wrote :

"...From were you set put a ladder tye a string to it were your head was 15 feet long, go to your horns that is 1000 hz and above put the string threw it go threw the back of it take your driver off measure to the back plate distance from mounting front add that to the string and put some tape on it. Make sure the string is threw the center of horn, Then repete on all horns the same way on both sides, then it will be time aligned..."

I offer the following translation (?) because the English used may be making things a bit cryptic (no criticism intended... I make plenty of errors when writing in foreign languages) I think what I.M. Distortion describes above is the physical enactment of Romy's illustration (a few posts back) showing the relationship of the listener to an arc described by the location of each membrane.
In other words, I think you are both illustrating the same concept... The string idea is a practical means of quickly getting things close; sure it will not be precise down to one one hundredth of a millimeter... That would be the next step. Anyway, here's my translation :

1) Place a step ladder in the listening position.

2) Attach a piece of string to a point on the ladder corresponding to the location of the listener's ears. 

3) Remove drivers from all horns responsible for producing frequencies above 1000 Hz.

4) Extend the free end of the string through the center of each of the above-mentioned horns, and mark the point on the string corresponding to the location of the membrane (where it would be located had the driver not been removed).

5) Position the above-mentioned horns such that the location of their respective membranes will be at the point marked on the string once the drivers are replaced.

I.M. Distortion wrote :

"...#1 from were you listen to system from you should be able to look down the throat of every horn in your system..."

Hmmm... I will soon be able to verify this for myself.

Peace boyz,

jd*


How to short-circuit evolution: Enshrine mediocrity.
04-02-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 33
Post ID: 7078
Reply to: 7075
The Cyclopedia of Distortions

 I.M.Distortion wrote:
….  i will prove to you in the future that my idea for time alignment is correct.

You do not need to prove me anything. Read my site archives and you might learn why alignment the drivers how you proposed is not a good idea. Well, it is good for somebody who writes fantasies on web sites but it is about it.

 I.M.Distortion wrote:
….  My back ground in audio is second generation, i will give you a clue my dad's picture is in the book you need to read Audio Cyclopedia By Howard M. Tremaine Second Edition.

OK

 I.M.Distortion wrote:
I have only had one account with your web site…

That one?

http://www.GoodSoundClub.com/TreeItem.aspx?PostID=3085

It is good book. I do not read books about audio generally. I prefer to invent all necessarily for me audio knowledge myself. This way I do not subordinate to somebody’s mistakes or stupidity – there is a lot of it in audio books.

 I.M.Distortion wrote:
If you would like we could start basic principles of sound and go from there.
Distortion, do whether you what but this thread is about Macondo and the people, including me, who subscribe the email notifications from this thread are obligated to read all of your crap that is not related to the subjects of Macondo. If you wish then create your own thread, call it “Cyclopedia  of Distortion” and pile up there your wisdoms. If it will be something worthy there then I will be happy to reply to you.

 I.M.Distortion wrote:
I do not consintrate on one system, i have them in every room of my house.

I am sure you do, I am sure you do…

Rgs, Romy the caT


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
04-02-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
drdna
San Francisco, California
Posts 526
Joined on 10-29-2005

Post #: 34
Post ID: 7079
Reply to: 7074
Practical horn alignment
Well, I do not see anything wrong with what anyone has said so far and I do not see the cause of disagreement or the angry "dog-barking" for this forum.  I hope that we can compose ourselves and retain some decorum, not stooping to AA levels here.

Now, the idea of the use of the string as a measuring device for time alignment is nothing new.  You can certainly use this as a starting point, but it presupposes that the end result of drivers lying on a diameter surrounding the listener is what you want.  This configuration has good points and bad points.  If there is anything about audio in real practice you learn, it is that every soultion is a compromise, and that it is critical to figure out what compromise you are most comfortable with, and then work to shape your system to achieve these specific goals.

Adrian
04-02-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 35
Post ID: 7080
Reply to: 7077
The measuring of what?

 jessie.dazzle wrote:
4) Extend the free end of the string through the center of each of the above-mentioned horns, and mark the point on the string corresponding to the location of the membrane (where it would be located had the driver not been removed).

5) Position the above-mentioned horns such that the location of their respective membranes will be at the point marked on the string once the drivers are replaced.

And can somebody tell me how one can figure out where the membranes located and where is the membrane’s acoustic center would be? The way Distortion's proposed way helps to EQ the proximity from the listening spot to the throats, but THAT proximity is not really relevant distance and it has absolutely nothing to do with arrival time. With the same success we can measure the distance from listening spot to the horn’s mouths or from the listening spot to the next liquor store…

Rgs, the Cat

PS: Adrian, I got your message about my attitude but my attitude was not against what Distortion proposes (though I feel it is incorrect) but rather it was the anti-angeloitacare attitude. That idiot kept sending me unsolicited messages after message with assurances that “he might improve quite a bit from where I have now”. I still feel that Distortion is the Angeloitacare cretin, the fact that he posts from sever that many ISP recognize as spamming IP and block does not help as well.


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
04-02-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,570
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 36
Post ID: 7081
Reply to: 7080
The Wedgie
But doesn't putting the drivers on an inward-firing arc more or less shoot all the sound into a point, like the opposite of the Big Bang?

This seems like an invitation to phase problems in the real world, and it also seems like it could bugger up the room effects.

I don't know how others are doing it these days, but I depend a lot on the room, and in fact I think it would be better if I could get the room even more into play rather than less.

Is the idea really to make the giant speakers into giant headphones, or am I just over estimating the "Wedgie Effect" as it relates to the mysterious horns?

Best regards,
Paul S
04-02-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 37
Post ID: 7082
Reply to: 7081
The absolute prohibition!

 Paul S wrote:
But doesn't putting the drivers on an inward-firing arc more or less shoot all the sound into a point, like the opposite of the Big Bang?

Paul, locating the horn channels on an inward-firing arc and targeting them to the listening point faces absolute prohibition from the perspectives of my Macondo's Axioms. The drivers in nearfield position should be positioned on curve but they must not be angled and shells keep the channels axis strictly parallel

http://www.GoodSoundClub.com/TreeItem.aspx?PostID=7001

BTW, the angling of the upper horn axis is where the Cessaro Gamma screwed up.

Rgs, the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
04-02-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
coops
London, United Kingdom
Posts 115
Joined on 02-16-2007

Post #: 38
Post ID: 7083
Reply to: 7082
Moronic

I didn't realise you had heard a pair Romy, or do you just 'know' what they sound like?

04-02-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 39
Post ID: 7084
Reply to: 7083
Realize this.

 coops wrote:

I didn't realise you had heard a pair Romy, or do you just 'know' what they sound like?

I do recognize that some of those who have heard the top-angled Cressaro had no understanding WHAT EXACTLY and HOW to listen in the sound of that speaker in order to make the negative effect of axis angling self-evident.  So, what is Moronic? It is OK, this was not the question that requires a answer…

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
04-02-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
I.M.Distortion


Posts 9
Joined on 03-26-2008

Post #: 40
Post ID: 7085
Reply to: 7082
Macondo's

Romy. I have seen no info on your walls or seating position except 6.5 feet from enclosures. Back walls behind the listening position could also be a problem with room acoustics. Is there any foam panels on back walls? any diffusers? Solutions are us. Distortion

Page 2 of 7 (121 items) Select Pages:  « 1 2 3 4 5 » ... Last »
   Target    Threads for related reading   Most recent post in related threads   Forum  Replies   Views   Started 
  »  New  Romy's Horns..  RE: Still Romy's horns...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     3  61841  04-14-2005
  »  New  The “Dead Points of Live Sound”..  Confused...  Playback Listening  Forum     28  312800  05-14-2005
  »  New  Macondo Horns: biography...  Macondo with Pussy Eyes....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     2  61030  05-18-2005
  »  New  The IDEAL horn system..  Serious Coax? Where?...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     27  184019  12-11-2005
  »  New  Adding one more spherical to Macondo...  It is about magnet and SS type....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     92  926590  05-23-2006
  »  New  45Hz Bass Horn..  Can We Ever be Saved From Ourselves?...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     23  306285  09-19-2006
  »  New  The most promising “best” commercial speaker..  Munich High End 2023...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     192  1734852  12-06-2006
  »  New  Macondo Frame modification...  Parquet...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     46  445973  12-22-2006
  »  New  RAAL “Water Drop” tweeter for Macondo...  Your comment takes me by surprise...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     77  893546  02-16-2007
  »  New  How to USE “Resonating Oops” in loudspeakers..  Injection?...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     184  1470060  02-28-2007
  »  New  Jessie Dazzle Project..  Will this better to be auditable?...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     172  1509201  08-03-2007
  »  New  Proximity of horn’s crossover and it’s ability to care ..  Does this explain or relate to the "trombone"...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     2  35680  09-16-2007
  »  New  Stop having a fear of horn vignetteing..  Eclipsing the feathery edge...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     1  26637  12-14-2007
  »  New  My (Amplification + Acoustic System): what is next?..  Macondo and Melquiades in the NEW room....  Audio Discussions  Forum     41  301271  01-10-2008
  »  New  Make your own horns?..  I have no wet dreams about horns…...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     1  27312  01-22-2008
  »  New  All Active! A DSET and multi-way acoustic system...  Hahaha...  Audio Discussions  Forum     14  119623  01-31-2008
  »  New  Who makes horns? Architectural options...  Who makes horns? Architectural options....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     0  18932  02-29-2008
  »  New  Macondo vs. the “industry sponsored speakers”..  Correction : "Man in the street"...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     4  57317  05-11-2008
  »  New  Experience Music Horn Installation @ VSAC..  RCA MI-1428B vs Vitavox S2...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     25  266096  05-27-2008
  »  New  ... again on GOTO Unit drivers.....  GOTO installation in Lithuania....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     108  1101363  08-16-2008
  »  New  Compression Drivers -in general..  Do the things progressively…...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     25  229038  10-19-2008
  »  New  The state of High-Efficiency Loudspeakers...  Tom Danley’s brilliant law...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     6  87674  02-25-2009
  »  New  Macondo listening experience..  Actually I disagree with your assessment....  Playback Listening  Forum     4  53331  06-16-2009
  »  New  Battling stupid Horn Criticism as a concept..  Some Brit’s take on the Horn sound.......  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     32  209779  08-03-2009
  »  New  MacondoLite..  The Count Alessandro di Cagliostro’s methods....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     18  178521  08-15-2009
  »  New  How to select mid/upper bass horn drivers...  How to select mid/upper bass horn drivers....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     0  24718  08-25-2009
  »  New  Engaging the David Haigner’s ideas..  The degree of disagreement correction...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     7  84942  08-30-2009
  »  New  Tightening to loosening Screws ? no fake.....  Screws are BACK again...  Playback Listening  Forum     13  102289  10-16-2009
  »  New  Meyer X-10..  Here is another example …...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     3  52697  10-28-2009
  »  New  Many Mani's options: My first horns..  Well, you need to read a whole book....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     27  145020  01-20-2010
  »  New  New speaker system..  One more horn speaker system to look at...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     6  88918  03-16-2010
  »  New  Time alignment of drivers..  Capacitors...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     16  132094  08-17-2010
  »  New  Macondo’s lowest channel...  What truly are you tryin to accomplish?...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     150  1343844  09-15-2010
  »  New  About HF Binaurallism..  What is going on now....  Playback Listening  Forum     1  24364  11-27-2010
  »  New  Basic guide to advanced audio..  The 3-legged (running) Dog of GSC Hi-Fi...  Playback Listening  Forum     62  519092  07-23-2011
  »  New  Rakeshorns..  Excellent walls....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     33  286465  08-26-2011
  »  New  Canadian Speaker Proposal..  Drivers/Speakers As Filters...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     56  338359  06-21-2013
  »  New  Deep End DIY - Australian take one Macondo...  It is simple, but......  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     87  289196  01-20-2016
  »  New  Remedies the Beauty..  Supertweeter...  Playback Listening  Forum     293  205128  10-13-2021
  »  New  Macondo 2.0?..  Confused!...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     24  14826  11-18-2022
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