Romy the Cat wrote:

let me write up an article about the importance of super precise tweeters alignment and at next Danvers audio show this thing will be flying from your hands for $399.

el`Ol, I have written about Ascendo System’s approach somewhere but what Ascendo does and what I say are different. I always stressed the anal retentive time aliment but I never stressed the level of precision that I am stressing it now. You might make your own experiment and confirm that going from 1dB precision to 1/12dB precision is auditable, if to know what to pay attention while we are listen.

It is not to mention that Ascendo and Macondo are at totally different realms of time aliment. I would even say that in case of Ascendo the adjustable head is not really necessary as the precision that they need might be accomplished by a good baffle design. Ascendo HF section is crossed at 3.2kHz. At 3.2kHz the length of the wave is 10.6cm with 1 degree of misalignment equal 0.9mm.  Macondo is crossed at 12.5kHz, that makes wave length 2.7cm with 1 degree of misalignment equal 0.075mm…

There are other designs of sliding plates that allow to get closer to the frame:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Einstellschlitten_W0QQitemZ230228751114QQihZ013QQcategoryZ8275QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Romy the Cat wrote:

I was playing more with precision of my MF channel and I became convinced that I should not do it anymore and I should get better interfaces between the frame and the MF horn. So, I have decided to get a positioning table. I have absolutely no knowledge in the fields of machinery equipment. If someone know a source for one-two axis, 8”-12” long and 3-4” wide, sexy looking, not overly expensive positioning table with .001 precision then let me know. I will build an arm off the Macondo’s frame to hold the positioning table and will put my MF horn on it. The table on the picture above is very good but it is $180 each. It will be my way out if I do not found anything better.

From were you set put a ladder tye a string to it were your head was 15 feet long, go to your horns that is 1000 hz and above put the string threw it go threw the back of it take your driver off measure to the back plate distance from mounting front add that to the string and put some tape on it. Make sure the string is threw the center of horn, Then repete on all horns the same way on both sides, then it will be time aligned. It will inprove quite a bit from were you have it now. good luck

Distortion,

All that might propose you is before making recommendations to “improve quite a bit” something at least to get some practical experience on the subject as from what you said there is a clear evidence that you have none. Otherwise there is truly no need to “advise” and to wish to others “good luck”.

I.M.Distortion wrote:

Dear Romy   Chapter 1 in the audio cyclopedia, you should read it because you are the won who lacks experiance when it come to building a sound system. #1 from were you listen to system from you should be able to look down the throat of every horn in your system. #2 From were you listen from you should have time alignment to every driver, that means every driver should be the same distance from you, and you have a system that has 4 drivers stuck on top of eachother and you thank that is time alignment. So the string idea that i talked about is the easy way to do it. #3 To get costs down when building a sound system, you want to have a clear idea of what you are doing and trying to achieve to get the best possible sound, not start with an abortion and try to carry it a few more years with hapless bad ideas.

Dear, Distortion.

Unfortunately what you describe does not sound to me as “Basic principles of sound” but rather the “the basic principles of somebody who just read audio cyclopedia yesterday for a first time and has no brain to understand what he read”. Juts calm down and pay attention WHY I am so superbly confident that you never dealt with practicality of multi-way horn installation. After you actually do something and try then I would at least have an ability to explain to you why amongyou what you said was wrongly.  Meanwhile your level of understanding the subject and your general overlook is remarkably reminds to me that “angeloitacare” freak. I hope you are not him as you still might have a chance. Be advised that you sound identicalu with that “beyond the help” angeloitacare-freak…. and it is a very bad symptom.

I.M.Distortion wrote:

With the money you spent on the mistakes i could build a speaker system that sound better then the one you use and i would bet on that.

Why do you worry about my money?  Worry about you own results. What you can “bet” I do not particularly care.

I.M.Distortion wrote:

I see the way you are, when someone would say something about your system you get rid of them so you can have the floor.

I am not quite sure what you mean.  I would LOVE to have serious critical discussions about Macondo and about some concepts that I put in Macondo – BTW it is what this thread is for. If what you said above is something that you consider "serious" then you must not talk with me but you need to found that angeloitacare-idiot and create own community of  ”audio-intellectuals”.  As far as I concern all your 6 post at this site werewaste of time to read.

The way you are going with the ajustible settup is correct but it allso needs a ball joint or swivel to angle the horn's in all directions to aim horn's to listener. SOLUTION'S ARE US Distortion

I.M. Distortion wrote :

"...From were you set put a ladder tye a string to it were your head was 15 feet long, go to your horns that is 1000 hz and above put the string threw it go threw the back of it take your driver off measure to the back plate distance from mounting front add that to the string and put some tape on it. Make sure the string is threw the center of horn, Then repete on all horns the same way on both sides, then it will be time aligned..."

I offer the following translation (?) because the English used may be making things a bit cryptic (no criticism intended... I make plenty of errors when writing in foreign languages) I think what I.M. Distortion describes above is the physical enactment of Romy's illustration (a few posts back) showing the relationship of the listener to an arc described by the location of each membrane.
In other words, I think you are both illustrating the same concept... The string idea is a practical means of quickly getting things close; sure it will not be precise down to one one hundredth of a millimeter... That would be the next step. Anyway, here's my translation :

1) Place a step ladder in the listening position.

2) Attach a piece of string to a point on the ladder corresponding to the location of the listener's ears. 

3) Remove drivers from all horns responsible for producing frequencies above 1000 Hz.

4) Extend the free end of the string through the center of each of the above-mentioned horns, and mark the point on the string corresponding to the location of the membrane (where it would be located had the driver not been removed).

5) Position the above-mentioned horns such that the location of their respective membranes will be at the point marked on the string once the drivers are replaced.

I.M. Distortion wrote :

"...#1 from were you listen to system from you should be able to look down the throat of every horn in your system..."

Hmmm... I will soon be able to verify this for myself.

Peace boyz,

jd*

I.M.Distortion wrote:

….  i will prove to you in the future that my idea for time alignment is correct.

You do not need to prove me anything. Read my site archives and you might learn why alignment the drivers how you proposed is not a good idea. Well, it is good for somebody who writes fantasies on web sites but it is about it.

I.M.Distortion wrote:

….  My back ground in audio is second generation, i will give you a clue my dad's picture is in the book you need to read Audio Cyclopedia By Howard M. Tremaine Second Edition.

OK

I.M.Distortion wrote:

I have only had one account with your web site…

That one?

http://www.GoodSoundClub.com/TreeItem.aspx?PostID=3085

It is good book. I do not read books about audio generally. I prefer to invent all necessarily for me audio knowledge myself. This way I do not subordinate to somebody’s mistakes or stupidity – there is a lot of it in audio books.

I.M.Distortion wrote:

If you would like we could start basic principles of sound and go from there.

I.M.Distortion wrote:

I do not consintrate on one system, i have them in every room of my house.

I am sure you do, I am sure you do…

jessie.dazzle wrote:

4) Extend the free end of the string through the center of each of the above-mentioned horns, and mark the point on the string corresponding to the location of the membrane (where it would be located had the driver not been removed). 5) Position the above-mentioned horns such that the location of their respective membranes will be at the point marked on the string once the drivers are replaced.

And can somebody tell me how one can figure out where the membranes located and where is the membrane’s acoustic center would be? The way Distortion's proposed way helps to EQ the proximity from the listening spot to the throats, but THAT proximity is not really relevant distance and it has absolutely nothing to do with arrival time. With the same success we can measure the distance from listening spot to the horn’s mouths or from the listening spot to the next liquor store…

Paul S wrote:

But doesn't putting the drivers on an inward-firing arc more or less shoot all the sound into a point, like the opposite of the Big Bang?

Paul, locating the horn channels on an inward-firing arc and targeting them to the listening point faces absolute prohibition from the perspectives of my Macondo's Axioms. The drivers in nearfield position should be positioned on curve but they must not be angled and shells keep the channels axis strictly parallel

http://www.GoodSoundClub.com/TreeItem.aspx?PostID=7001

BTW, the angling of the upper horn axis is where the Cessaro Gamma screwed up.

I didn't realise you had heard a pair Romy, or do you just 'know' what they sound like?

coops wrote:

I didn't realise you had heard a pair Romy, or do you just 'know' what they sound like?

I do recognize that some of those who have heard the top-angled Cressaro had no understanding WHAT EXACTLY and HOW to listen in the sound of that speaker in order to make the negative effect of axis angling self-evident.  So, what is Moronic? It is OK, this was not the question that requires a answer…

Romy. I have seen no info on your walls or seating position except 6.5 feet from enclosures. Back walls behind the listening position could also be a problem with room acoustics. Is there any foam panels on back walls? any diffusers? Solutions are us. Distortion