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  »  New  Macondo's Axioms: Horn-loaded acoustic systems..  A link to another thread....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     120  680733  07-29-2007
  »  New  Dannoy 2021 Loudspeakers..  It is all bout me....  Audio For Dummies ™  Forum     24  35204  08-04-2021
  »  New  Bermuda Triangles of Audio..  Tannoy carton issues...  Playback Listening  Forum     5  12771  11-09-2021
11-25-2021 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Bill
Kensington, NH
Posts 117
Joined on 03-15-2010
Post #: 121
Post ID: 26573
Reply to: 26572
Dannoy

BillDannoy.jpg
11-26-2021 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
N-set
Gdansk, Poland
Posts 617
Joined on 01-07-2006
Post #: 122
Post ID: 26574
Reply to: 26573
Mail me
Bill, mail me the picture pls at:   info_AT_stacore.pl   and I'll post it for you. Thanks


Cheers,
Jarek
STACORE
11-26-2021 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,159
Joined on 05-28-2004
Post #: 123
Post ID: 26575
Reply to: 26565
That tonight mood music....
I used to know guy who fly around the world, tested food from new restaurants and built for them vine lists. I wonder if you visited my room tonight and see how I cut the teeth at the buffalo of my speakers with demolition reciprocated saw I wonder what kind music you suggest me to play in the background? I started from Mendelssohn quartet but it is too stupidly cheerful music for my activity. I went for something more gloom and thought that middle Shostakovich quartets will do for me, but it was much more depressing that I would like it to be. Wify isuggested use inferno dances from Dante but it was not there and I did not feel anything diabolical about what I was doing. I even tried jazz, there is no more demolition music than contemporary jazz, but it was to rhythmic and broke my demolition sow harmony. I was trying a few pieces starting from Tchaikovsky 6 last moment and ending by Mahler 6 Adagio. I certainly would like it to be slow, dark and rhythmic but I would like it to be happy. Eventually I did find slow glim, rhythmic and happy music which worked for me very fine to "destroy" my Remedios speakers. David Gilmore band with dark poetry of Roger Waters fit my bill tonight


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
11-26-2021 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,159
Joined on 05-28-2004
Post #: 124
Post ID: 26576
Reply to: 26575
Acoustics, dental package.
What can I say, nothing more than "I wish you were here"...

Speakerdentist.jpg




"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
11-26-2021 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Wojtek
Pinckney (MI), United States
Posts 178
Joined on 09-01-2005
Post #: 125
Post ID: 26577
Reply to: 26576
Russian engineering ???
For God's sake it's an old Tannoy red with standard vintage Tannoy crossover muddied by scan speak pseudo passive radiator in accidental enclosure driven by a run of a mill Yamaha amp. 
11-26-2021 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,159
Joined on 05-28-2004
Post #: 126
Post ID: 26578
Reply to: 26577
Agree.
You are absolutely correct. This is exactly what you describe and that is why I'm so surprised is that it sounds more interesting that anything I was exposed before. Sorry, I do not have luxury to think that I am idiot or that I do not know what I'm doing.

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
11-26-2021 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Wojtek
Pinckney (MI), United States
Posts 178
Joined on 09-01-2005
Post #: 127
Post ID: 26579
Reply to: 26578
Oh, no worries
I'm absolutely fascinated by this latest twist of your audio journey and your courage to pursue it. Sorry for a cheap shot...and I wish I was there to hear it 
11-26-2021 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,159
Joined on 05-28-2004
Post #: 128
Post ID: 26580
Reply to: 26579
Agree...
Wojtek, this is the whole astonishment of the story. There are no space flying technologies, no 30 years of research and investigation in a secretive lab which specialize on a submarine sonars, there's no capacitors made from unobtainium deelectric, and there are no recently discovered Beethoven letters that composing his 15 quartet he was thinking about cable elevators from a specific company. From high-and prospective that ingredient of solutions that I am experimenting right now are pretty much garbage. That result very much simulates me, and I hope that I will be able to repeat it. Even if I will not be able to the experience with Dannoy made me to think very different from the prospective of machine to human interaction in high-end idea. It is not really about sound that playback produces but it is about sound that a listener consumes.  We know a lot about sounds that come from playback but we know very little how are brain interprets the heard. That configuration that I experimented lately did somehow hit that g-spot. Do I need to care why didn't have that orgasm or do you think I would instead enjoy the ride? 

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
11-27-2021 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,159
Joined on 05-28-2004
Post #: 129
Post ID: 26581
Reply to: 26580
Remedios The Beauty as High-End Audio for Dummies


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
11-28-2021 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,658
Joined on 10-12-2006
Post #: 130
Post ID: 26582
Reply to: 26581
The More Than One Way Way
Romy, I was reading one of your posts from 2009 that addressed the matter of perception, and as I listened to your most recent video last night I remembered Dr. Gizmo and his (often cartoonish) rants along similar lines. At some point, if we are going to have repeatable It, we have to have Sound that can deliver It for us. While Gizmo insisted on a fairly specific formula, I am pretty sure at this point that ones personal journey can lead to a personal solution, albeit it might not be a permanent solution. I say this because I have had several systems that provided "sufficient It"  for many years at a time, ranging from Horns via PP, sealed boxes via PP and SS, FR via SET, to multi-driver stacks and piles driven by PP, SET, and SS again. All these systems sounded different, one from the others. It has never been the case for me that I was awash in It every time I played Music via any system I ever had, over an extended (indefinite) period of time. It has always been the case for me that I get more or less It from a given configuration on a session-to-session basis, and then I want to "hear things differently" at some point. It is interesting for me to think this process does not have to do with Sound, as I have always paid a good deal of attention to Sound as I have developed and shaped my systems. Certainly, in the end, I have "rated" my own  systems on Musical "Satisfaction", which I put in quotes because what keeps my interest at any given point in time seems to vary, at least somewhat. Hard to imagine stopping on one "formula".


Best regards,Paul S
11-28-2021 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
rowuk


Germany
Posts 454
Joined on 07-05-2012
Post #: 131
Post ID: 26583
Reply to: 26582
Recipe from my youth
 Paul S wrote:
...Certainly, in the end, I have "rated" my own  systems on Musical "Satisfaction", which I put in quotes because what keeps my interest at any given point in time seems to vary, at least somewhat. Hard to imagine stopping on one "formula".

Best regards,Paul S



Funny, with me, the formula has not really changed since the mid 70s - a plausible reconstruction for row 15 listening. Maybe this is a result of getting a degree in music performance? It is what I hear in my head when reading a score too.
The frequency response at my listening seat has always been angled down regardless if it was AR LST, AR 10pi or the various DIY stuff. The full range stuff was too in my face, as was the early horn experiments.

Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.
11-28-2021 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,159
Joined on 05-28-2004
Post #: 132
Post ID: 26584
Reply to: 26583
Nowadays I convinced in opposite

Funny, with me, the formula has not really changed since the mid 70s - a plausible reconstruction for row 15 listening

Ironically, this is exactly what lately I advocate against. And this is a very important message that I would like to delegate. In my view reconstruction or better to say reinstating of auditable environment for row 15 is only Sonic other objective and I believe it is very secondary our objective. We are operating under presumption that if we put a subject (listener) in the similar environment where he or she can receive the same messages as during life event then it automatically assure success of audio event. I feel it is wrong, or would this way it is not completely right. I can give you a dozens examples which proves it. The simplest would be you sitting at row 15 and somebody who is not familiar with classical repertoire at all. Both of you will be receiving in your seats The identical musical messages but the audio communication event will have different results for you and a little informed person.

Think about a concept that a regular person and a great writer can express. One person pass a data about the subject of writing and another person create a long-lasting memorable artistic impressions. The very same with playback. Different playbacks have different capacity to impregnate sonic messages with artistic payload. I know something how to make playback to sound good but I am not informed how to make amplifier or speaker to enriched audio sound with imaginative values. This is exactly my problem with my Macondo. I can make it sound supposedly beautiful but I do not know which gear to lubricate an order make sound more artistically potent. This is exactly why I grabs this Dannoy opportunity as for some reason it is more artistically capable.

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
11-28-2021 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
rowuk


Germany
Posts 454
Joined on 07-05-2012
Post #: 133
Post ID: 26586
Reply to: 26584
Maybe not "right" but...
My playback is specifically for ME. I am not so much interested in hearing if the trumpet player farts, but am very interested in the orchestral fabric and how players move their instruments in and out of that. Row 15, refers to my favorite row at the Alte Oper in Frankfurt. I am far enough away that I do not have to turn my head to focus any of the sound events from the stage. At this position, I have a balanced experience for direct vs room sound. Power is transferred to my body and ears in a "natural" way. At that seat, the articulation and expression is natural and as complex as it needs to be to get "IT".

Row 15 at home means that essentially regardless of the recording, the audio event is such that I do not "need" an imaging artifact to impress me. Power (< 250 Hz) is transferred naturally, and clarity is such that it melds with my reading of the score (either in my head or on paper). It is NOT a conductors view. This most certainly is a distortion of the recorded reality (that has all of the microphones closer than "row 15") but one that I have found answers for.

In any case, right or wrong, the "faults" in my playback are well known to me and not yet in the way.

Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.
11-28-2021 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Bill
Kensington, NH
Posts 117
Joined on 03-15-2010
Post #: 134
Post ID: 26588
Reply to: 26584
Not possible
It’s impossible to reconstruct the row 15 sound wit a stereo setup for two reasons.1. The vast majority of recordings have the mikes placed either above the conductor or the first row of seats, or worse, in the middle of the orchestra.2. A recording engineer acquaintance of mine did a study of Avery Fisher and Carnegie Hall, and found that from about the 3rd or 4th row on, a large percentage of the sound is hall reverberation, which cannot be recreated by two speakers. Only a “surround” system ( sorry Romy) with either multichannel recordings, or ambiance capture from the original recording, or recreation a la Romy can successfully recreate row 10/or 20 or 30 depending on the multi speaker configuration and the process. I've found that only Romy's method, andAuro 3 D can do it properly. Both day lay and dts screw it up. Of course, multichannel recording with proper miking do it also, but are few and far between. 
11-28-2021 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,159
Joined on 05-28-2004
Post #: 135
Post ID: 26589
Reply to: 26586
It is important to differentiate...
rowuk, everthing you said is fine but it describea the construction of sonic characteristics of event. Yes to the certain degree restructure Sonic characteristics in accordance to our preference is fine. You my drink water and you might drink vodka. Both of them transparent liquid and from point of audio when you pull both of them in a glass they deliver the same sound. However they produce different impact to the participants. So, it is not external evidences but the intrinsic context of the core. You might have one playback with a Polish soprano sinhs Germanic repertoire and to feel annoyed by her accent and you might have the same recording play on another playback and you instead of annoyance will appreciate her trying .. what I am saying that playback certainly deliver sound but also it delivers let's call it at lubrication for sound which make consumption of Sonic messages to be more palatable for our conscious. This aspect, is this MSG for music, this psychophysical Force that presumably play back capable more or less is something which very much fascinates me. If I know what not to adjust in order to moderate a playback in that direction I would certainly enable Macondo to do it. The problem is that I do not know what it is. At this point I know that it is not a Boolean Force but it is a Spectra. It might be more or might be less of "it". The next step would be to say why but I'm not going there because I do not know. Anyhow what is important for me to emphasize that it is not about sound but about enabling Force within sound....


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
11-28-2021 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
anthony
Posts 338
Joined on 08-18-2014
Post #: 136
Post ID: 26590
Reply to: 26589
Magic Foo
 Romy the Cat wrote:
.. what I am saying that playback certainly deliver sound but also it delivers let's call it at lubrication for sound which make consumption of Sonic messages to be more palatable for our conscious. This aspect, is this MSG for music, this psychophysical Force that presumably play back capable more or less is something which very much fascinates me. If I know what not to adjust in order to moderate a playback in that direction I would certainly enable Macondo to do it. The problem is that I do not know what it is. 


Romy, I still don't really know what you are actually describing in terms of the experience you are getting from Dannoy, I'm not sure I have ever experienced it, or if I have I've certainly never thought of it in the same way, and to be honest I started to think along the lines that this is something very personal to you which will not necessarily translate to another, but Bill seems very keen on it too, so perhaps it is more contagious that I initially presumed.  In terms of Macondo, I don't run the Injection Channel, which I assumed you needed to inject some colour to the sound but I must say the system seems very responsive to different electronics including the preamp and dac/phonostage.  My experience to date is much less extensive than yours, but adding a high performing DHT preamp to Macondo has been one of the best things I have done...sort of like your experience with Dannoy it just worked first time...no fiddling.

Hopefully you will figure out where the magic foo emanates from Dannoy and be able to infect other loudspeakers.  
11-28-2021 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,159
Joined on 05-28-2004
Post #: 137
Post ID: 26591
Reply to: 26590
Fooooooo...
Everything is possible. Although I believe that my personal experiences are universal experience and common to all people but I hope you not truly believe that I subscribe this is my own statement. Perception is reality and we certainly understand world through the prism of our perception. It is possible that I got super fascinated with some of the aspects of Dannoy and in few months or years I changed my mind. What I certainly feel now that Milq and Macondo where spectacular machines to produce sound but in this stage of my development, or the gradation, who knows, I am not looking for better sound but instead I'll looking for for higher yield of those times I spent in front of loudspeakers. I want those listening experiences to have more potency and more impact not by the virtue of wonderful performance, which is self-explanatory, but the virtue of stimulated performance of playback. I am not talking about permanent expressive distortions but I rather am talking about play back to be more l ethal in term machine / human interaction. For whatever reason my accidental Dannoy is orders of magnitude easier sandbox to play and have that expressive l ethality much more advanced. So I have much bigger head start with Dannoy.

In terms of preamps. You know that I disagree with you and despite the tie did not see any other preamps for 20 years I have quite confidence in Plasset. Saying all of it I could literally recognize the tie do not drive is my preamp 12 low impedance channels and I do not necessarily will be stuck with Placcet permanently in case I live myself with Dannoy. Frankly I care about this very little as my primary objective now is to finish Remidios the Beauty and two learn that it will have the same metaphorical potency as Dannoy did. That box speakers configuration is a different animals that I forgot how to deal with, I have changed my room in order to accommodate Remidios and I am very excited to start experiment with this. Probably new panels will be arriving this week.


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
11-28-2021 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
mats
Chicago
Posts 85
Joined on 09-18-2005
Post #: 138
Post ID: 26592
Reply to: 26590
Event
In the latest video Romy speaks of a metaphor generator. 
An audio experience for the purpose of making one a better person. 
One might think of this as a personal event, with a retroversive effect, 
allowing the past to appear in a new way,
and as such it could also alter the how it informs the path ahead. 
Something like this, Hegel might call totality. 
Maybe even freedom. 
-Mats
12-11-2021 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,159
Joined on 05-28-2004
Post #: 139
Post ID: 26604
Reply to: 26591
The new panels are on
It is not what I wanted aesthetically but it is what it is....
20211211_075213.jpg



"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
12-11-2021 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,658
Joined on 10-12-2006
Post #: 140
Post ID: 26605
Reply to: 26604
Longer Tunnels?
Where did I get the idea that you were going to replace the super-thick baffles, rather than adding to them?

Hearing is believing!


Paul S
Page 7 of 16 (303 items) Select Pages:  « First ... « 5 6 7 8 9 » ... Last »
   Target    Threads for related reading   Most recent post in related threads   Forum  Replies   Views   Started 
  »  New  Macondo's Axioms: Horn-loaded acoustic systems..  A link to another thread....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     120  680733  07-29-2007
  »  New  Dannoy 2021 Loudspeakers..  It is all bout me....  Audio For Dummies ™  Forum     24  35204  08-04-2021
  »  New  Bermuda Triangles of Audio..  Tannoy carton issues...  Playback Listening  Forum     5  12771  11-09-2021
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