Romy the Cat wrote:

here is the picture of the perfect horn with Fane driver in it:

Romy the Cat wrote:

I am glad that Fane “now found … that they have sufficient old stock of the 8 ohms or 16 ohms voice coils to”. Such a phenomenal discovery of the British archeologists.  Can you ship them here in US, they can help us to find Jimmy Hoffa, can they? The thing is left to figure out why people want so desperately have 16R voice coils? The Cat

oxric wrote:

As to why people are interested in the 16 ohms drivers, that is only true of some. The idea is that if the Vitavox S2s are being used, and a single amplifier to drive the different channels, it seems to make sense to go for 16 Ohms drivers.

I see, that is right. Still, I would like to point out that if the 16 ohms drivers not available and the system is driver from a single amps then it is perfectly fine to drive MF and Fane from different taps of output transformer. A note that I would like to make – the 16R Fane will require more power than 8R Fane. If somebody use low power SET of 1-3W then they need to be concern that that they might not have power to drive 16 ohms Fane. It is very difficult to estimate without knowing many other variables. In case of a single amp is used I prefers to have as high impedance of upperbass as possible in order to idle amp in upperbass. The very much unloaded tube has no power but has very desirable transients for upperbass. For the paper-based upperbass it is in particularly beneficial. Since the upperbass will not care any upper frequency tones then it is practically impossible to make the upperbass to fracture sound in the way how MF would do with super-idle load. If you use 6C33C then try to load this tube to 2K-2.5K MF channel.  You will have so expedited Sound with so much harmonics extern then it will be too hard to listen.

With super idling in upperbass it seems that he eject not as bad, even though the upperbass might become too fast. For the people who do not know what loading type the will implement is imposable to guess what they will end up. If we have non-modifiable output transformers then the Fane’s voice coils need to be from 0.5R to 80R. For sure no one would do it. I would go with 16R and the only reason is that it is very simple to drop driver impedance if you need to by shunting the voice coil with a resistor. It has in most cases not to damaging effect. To increase impedance of a driver is much more complicated and imposable without damaging of sound.

BTW, I was not kidding about the dual-concentric 8” Fane. They did make a version of Studio 8M with a tweeter in the middle. I have it sitting in my driver storage…

Another BTW: the tractrix curve was not introduced by Brits but by French in 16 century after they study fish moving in water.

The Cat

Romy the Cat wrote:

BTW, I was not kidding about the dual-concentric 8” Fane. They did make a version of Studio 8M with a tweeter in the middle. I have it sitting in my driver storage… Another BTW: the tractrix curve was not introduced by Brits but by French in 16 century after they study fish moving in water. The Cat

OK, I think I need to help to poor Rakesh to sell his Fanes.  If he do not find his 50 buyers then he will be suffer from need to buy all of them as the ugly Fane people will not give him a break, selling o him as many drivers as he has managed to sell for them. Rakesh posted an add at DiyAudio site, in wrong forum in my view but it is what it is.

What in my Rakesh need to do is to tap to a different market share. He need to find a location where Avantgarde Trio users hang around and pitch the Fane Studio 8M to Trio owners. I do not know where this place would be. Most likely he needs to do to TAS forums:

http://www.avguide.com/channel/the-absolute-sound

TAS forums are a place where reviewers, manufacturers, publishers and idiot-users are practicing those infamous public blowing each other. I think they have many residual Trio users, so this would be the next place where I would fish prospective Fane buyers. Sure the best would be get from Avantgarde dealer a list of the Avantgarde Trio users but it a bit too hard-core sale and I would keep those methods in back burner as they require a different mind frame.

Anyhow, the Avantgarde Trio users do not know I that only those £265 per pair separating them from taking their beloved Avantgarde Trio into a very new level that they never knew exist. The replacement of the stock Trio upperbass driver to Fane Studio 8M is 5 min job and might be done by a person with no qualification. No crossover change o r any other modifications need to be done. The phase of the driver might be a subject but it might be VERY simply to be resolved.

So, what Avantgarde Trio user will get from replacing the stock Trio driver to Fane Studio 8M. Tone will be MUCH more interesting, much more expensive harmonics, and many other things. The most important is that that the Trio user you will hear a great discrimination of minute tonal and dynamic nuances, something that the stock Trio driver eats up. It will not be in the way how it has to be – to do it the Trio midbass horn need to be modified but even with stock horn the use Fane Studio 8M  in it will be VERY good advancement in sound, way larger in quality then  £265 worth…

Romy the Cat wrote:

Rakesh posted an add at DiyAudio site, in wrong forum in my view but it is what it is.

Romy the Cat wrote:

I think if you would like to form an army of happy buyers then you might try to make announcement at DIYadio.com, AA and alike sites where people are more accustomed to such events.

Romy the Cat wrote:

OK, I think I need to help to poor Rakesh to sell his Fanes.  If he do not find his 50 buyers then he will be suffer from need to buy all of them as the ugly Fane people will not give him a break, selling o him as many drivers as he has managed to sell for them.Rgs, Romy the Cat

oxric wrote:

However, in an earlier post, where you suggested that I was knocking 'at the wrong door', you wrote:… Having said this, we should not be overly concerned or surprised about a few inconsistencies coming from you so I do not really mind.

There is a difference between “do not really mind” and “do not use mind”. If you do use mind then you understand that what I said “Rakesh posted an add at DiyAudio site, in wrong forum in my view” I meant that you posted it in “Group Buys” forum of the DiyAudio site. It was wrong forum and it had to be posted in “Multi-Way” forum.  If you posted it in Multi-Way forum and instead of providing the Fane irrelevant evidence of authenticity the explanations to the local moron about the driver then you would have your 25 orders with a week.

oxric wrote:

Romy, I applaud the sentiment and welcome all help, especially if it is meaningful and given with a pure heart with no innuendos and no ulterior motives. Is your offer to help genuine?

Do I care? Do you care? Are you assessing my intentions of my compliance with “righteousness”? I care less nether about neither my intentions nor how they will be “understood” by internet observers.

oxric wrote:

You used the phrase 'ugly Fane people' in the post above. I honestly am mystified and slightly irritated that you take such a negative attitude to Fane, given that you have had no specific dealings with them and all I have written is to the effect that the company seems to be trustworthy and the staff there professional. Is it necessary to treat all manufacturers with the same brush?

Rakesh, you are so predictably bite the same bate.

oxric wrote:

A slightly more balanced view of industry operators would do your site a huge amount of good. It would invite more productive discussion of a number of interesting goods and services that may be of interest to anyone thinking of treading the difficult horn multichannel loudspeaker path. Your invariably pertinent and insightful comments might influence a higher standard in the industry generally than we are presently used to. Of course, knowing you, I doubt it will ever happen but imagine if instead of scaring off the industry insiders you engaged with them in meaningful discussion?

Did you ever ask why would I need it or want it? I laugh enough to witnessing you becoming a sales rep for Fane. You do it for 2 weeks and you have already losing your mind and begin to feel that proximity to “righteousness” is connected with demonstration of “respect” to those who feed you.  Sorry, I am not a dog.

oxric wrote:

Only recently, you commented that I appeared to be under the delusion that the LeCleach flare is considered by many to be superior to the tractrix for the higher frequencies. Guess what, Romy? Not only am I aware of it but I have read fairly long discourses online about the respective merits of these different flares. It would have been nice if such a discussion could take place here. I hope someday it will although I somehow am not sure it will ever happen. Quite a tragedy in my view.

As I said many times before: people hear only what they understand. When you stop running like wounded in ass animal across internet and to collect in your mind anything that anybody say and when instead you begin your own practice and use your own mind to make conclusion and rationalizations then you will discover that 99% of BS expressed our there is irrelevant. Then you might re-read what I expressed about tractrix and LA-horn profile with slits new understanding. Meanwhile print your “fairly long discourses” in long roll of paper and keep it under your pillow…

Romy the Cat wrote:

Did you ever ask why would I need it or want it? I laugh enough to witnessing you becoming a sales rep for Fane. You do it for 2 weeks and you have already losing your mind and begin to feel that proximity to “righteousness” is connected with demonstration of “respect” to those who feed you.  Sorry, I am not a dog. The Cat

oxric wrote:

….However, as I have said previously, my interest in Fane is strictly limited to this production run and nothing more sinister as you seem to insinuate. On the other hand, you had no problem being quoted on PurePower's site as a user and someone recommending their PP2000. Whilst one could not accuse you of being a dog, you certainly ended up serving as a useful pussy cat. I am sure it did them a lot of good too. Your excuse with putting up with their complete lack of reliable service was to serve your selfish, not to say slighty hapless and desperate need for their 'unique' product. Good for you.

oxric wrote:

I do not really know Fane well enough. Other than a couple of emails and phone calls I have exchanged with them, I have no attachment to Fane. I do not recommend them or their products generally and their is no captive audience here. In so far as I have had dealings with them, they have been courteous and professional and that is all I have ever said. Why this comment provokes such barely controlled animosity from you I find baffling.

oxric wrote:

Maybe the explanation is that like all cats you are very territorial. The Fane 8Ms used in upperbass horns are really your hunting grounds, your pet discoveries and it bothers you that others might be making use of them in a similar application?

Romy the Cat wrote:

I found that this overly zealous, stupid and absolutely unnecessary protectionism is very typical in audio and THAT is what I am agaist... Rakesh, I am sorry but you are even further running out of your mind with your theories. Are you proposing that I express the “barely controlled animosity” toward Fane because I feel bad that others will use their drivers? I do not even know if to laugh or to laugh VERY loud. I told you before that you need to do some degaussing from all of it as it affects you in very odd way. Now, as you voluntary become a part-time Fane pro-bono re-saler it getting worse very rapidly… BTW, I have some manufactures who would like to employ you as your deal with Fane will be over. I do not talk with Lamm but I am sure he will make for you one custom ML3 power amp if you pre-sell 25 pairs of ML3. The Cat

Jorge wrote:

I guess it would be simple enough to add a couple of inches in order to bring the throat down to 4" in order to try the Studio 8M.  I have already reduced it temporarily to 3" in order to try the JBL 2490h compression driver.  I made an interesting test:  I put the JBL 2490 on one side and the cone driver on the other side and unhooked the rest of the channels,  I switched form one side to the other trying to see what differnces I could find between them,  in the begining the differences were very big,  I started adjusting the back chamber volume milimetrically untill I  got 90% of what the 2490 was doing so wonderfully, there are still big diferences but they balance out,  the 2490 is more detailed, transparent and dinamic,  while the cone driver goes lower, keeping most of the attributes of the compression driver.  This little bit lower,  maybe down to 110-100 hz allows better integration with the channel under it,  without this extension, there was a hole in there and this frecuency is so important,  the lower register of even female voices was cut off and done by a woofer with terrible results.  Now if I could get another horn to take it from there....

Jorge,

I see you got Studio 8M from the Rakesh’s little enterprise.  What would be very interesting to see how 2490’s at it’s bottom knee will be able to work against Studio 8M. I wonder how low 2490 might credibly go? Would it be ~130Hz? The advantages of 3” exit 2490 are a bit dubious for upperbass channel, would it has 2” exit then it would have much beer EQ by horn. I truly like the idea of having metal diaphragm for upperbass horn. Would the 2490 be THE diaphragm? I do not know but I do not think so, because 2490 itself a reasonably “smooth” diver. I would like to have instead some kind of ugly-resonating diaphragm with a lot of colorations but running a few octaves below of where it resonates. Partially it is what I am accomplishing wish Injection Channel but no one say that the effects that I got by Injection might not be handled by the same driver that cares the main channel pressure.

I do not mind a lot of new people get the new Studio 8M but unfortunately it will close the window of opportunities for people to find another good driver suitable for 100Hz horn. What would be interesting if those who get the Fane this round would not use it as is but try to do something abnormal with it. The 3” throat on Studio 8M would give slightly larger compression, more output and more EQ from horn. It would be interesting to hear what Fane would do in 3” throat configuration. When I did my Midbass horn I went for 4” due to my objective to stay with certain max horn length. At that time it was the issue in my room.

Now I would not have room size restriction and I if I do Macondo from scratch then I might go might go for 3” throat hyperbolic horn.  I am still not too wild about the mix of exponential and tractrix profiles in the same system. To my knowledge there is absolutely no one who care about the visual aspect of multichannel horn ails with different profiles. Still I think if to make the external profile similar but internal profiles different then it might be possible to do something very offensive from appealing perspective. Unfortunately people do not get that such an insignificant change from 4” to 3” in upperbass horn would lead to very dramatic change of entire speaker.

Anyhow, it is interesting how the new 25 users that get those Studio 8M will use them. I wish something “new” would derive from all of it…

Romy the Cat wrote:

Anyhow, it is interesting how the new 25 users that get those Studio 8M will use them. I wish something “new” would derive from all of it…

Romy the Cat wrote:

What would be interesting if those who get the Fane this round would not use it as is but try to do something abnormal with it. The 3” throat on Studio 8M would give slightly larger compression, more output and more EQ from horn. It would be interesting to hear what Fane would do in 3” throat configuration.

Romy the Cat wrote:

I do not mind a lot of new people get the new Studio 8M but unfortunately it will close the window of opportunities for people to find another good driver suitable for 100Hz horn.

Romy the Cat wrote:

Now I would not have room size restriction and I if I do Macondo from scratch then I might go might go for 3” throat hyperbolic horn.

oxric wrote:

So, yes, in an ideal world, I would have seriously considered doing something different….

oxric wrote:

I thought that the general rule of thumb is to try and use a ratio of approximately 65% which makes the throat of 4" the one to go for.

oxric wrote:

Now you are talking! If this exercise only managed to get you to think and talk more about the critical upper bass channel horn and drivers, then that in itself and nothing more would, in my books, have served a sufficiently laudable end.

Romy the Cat wrote:

I guess your definition of “doing something different” would imply reading of 534 pages of BS from people who have no idea about Sound about advantages of LA-horn over tractrix…

Jorge wrote:

I dont expect any big changes on my system with them, but i want to be surprised!