Romy the Cat wrote:

Furthermore today to insult the injury it look like my theory about the PP2000 “transparency” to input noise blew in my face as today the wall electricity sounded much better than the from PP2000, that is what I did – disconnected all my regenerators and drove the playback from my dedicated lines.

Romy the Cat wrote:

This morning I was listening Messiaen’s Tarantella-Symphony powering system from the bare AC lines. It was far from the sound I would like to have and I decided one more time to insult myself with PP2000. This time I decided to take another PP2000 unit. To my surprise Sound was not right but it was different result then I had the whole week. That picked my curiosity and let me for a couple hours marathon of re-listening all 3 of my PP2000 regenerators. To my surprise, pleasure and horror they all turned out to be absolutely differently sounding. PP2000 #1. This one that has been using all week - the updated my old PP2000 (new version of motherboard). This one the absolutely worst – large amount of unpleasant noise, hugely homogenized tone, no bass, no anything – just disaster. It runs fine on batteries with fine sound. This unit I did some very basic measurement and they were fine. PP2000 #2. I do not get this unit. It does much less, practically no noise and no homogenization. It has some bass and in a way a clear bass. But something is very wrong in this sound, I can’t figure out what. It runs not identical but similar from buttery. I have no idea what is wrong with it, I did not measure it and I prefer do not use it. PP2000 #3. This is a lucky bustard.  It has practically no noise, no homogenization and it highlights the tones almost as good as my old PP2000 did. It has that precision, discrimination and authority in tonal and dynamic accents for which I so love the PP2000. It has a bit too shallow very lower bass and a bit general brightness that I did not remember the old unit had. It is not a lot but it there. It runs from buttery a very slightly better – picking the lower bass in partially getting rid of the business at HF.  The way how this unit sound from butteries is how the properly functioning PP2000 shall sound. The PP2000 #3 I think is useable, the first two units I am afraid not. I would like to have my old PP2000 back then I will have 2 find sounding PP2000 hopefully if PurePower will fix whatever is wrong with the new revision then I will get my third unit. Since the all so not even it is possible that the secret in some kind of calibration or adjustment that might be not done properly at PurePower. I did ask multiple times before they shipped them if the tested them and they told that they did. I did not measure my PP2000 #2 and PP2000 #3 but even my worst PP2000 (#1) measures fine. So, go figures that are responsible for sound in those units. If PurePower have more interest about subject of good sound and how to get it predictable then the situation might be a great opportunity to learn about it. Unfortunately it looks that PurePower more care about damage management. Boring and contra-productive.

A few words before I lay down the facts. Over the last week I got a number of signals from PurePower that I shall not defame their products. Their marketing director Bob Rapoport – a certifiable idiots – informed me that my finding about PurePower 2000 are “based on sheer fantasy”, that he “would bet that in a double blind AB test I would never know the difference” and that I shall “take down the entire thread about PurePower

from your blog” because it “this is a hobby to you, but its my livelihood”.  Their technical people dodge my calls. They claims that they here no difference of any kind between old and new units and between PP2000 running from AC and buttery.  This is very alarming and my odder to demonstrate it to them, even more - my proposal to give my facility and my engineering rescores for their disposal to find the problem – all left without answer. The PurePower owner has, who looks like offsite now days, has more rational position. He also is concern about me “defaming” his company product. He diplomatically implies that “we are interested is solving your problem”, which makes me surprised: my problems? Really?

The whole point is that the problem I am experiencing is not my problems but purely the PurePower, or more accurately the problems with PurePower 2000 operation.

Think logically: even if I was some kind of idiot and was absolutely misused the PP2000 then how this might explain that rotating PP2000 units in absolutely the same connecting and loading configuration produce 3 drastically different results from absolute garbage to near acceptable, still none of them produce good result as it was with former  production run. Even with my presumption of my partial deafness the logic would suggest that something is not right but not with me but with the regenerators. Ironically, no one before noted that my comments about the PP2000 were inaccurate, quite in contrary.

The most important thing is that what interests I have to report negatively about the PurePower units? The whole point of my report and my journey for a proper power device is that it is not exposed to any agenda, to any respect or disrespect to anything, even foe my own observation. The only mental schema I have is to find a devise that would produce the best good for Sound electricity. If it affects somebody sales number in negative or positive way then I do not really care and I am absolutely blind to those facts.

Anyhow, as I said above I think I know what the problem the new PP2000 might have. Well, it is not knowledge but rather guess. Let me to present the facts, you make your own concussions.

First let talk about the PP2000 #3. The one that has the best sound among my 3 units. It does NOT sound right – it way brighter than the older PP2000 was but it is semi-usable as a temporary solution, contrary to the rest of my PP2000. Let compare the new PP2000 #3 with my old PP2000.

Here are both of them running from AC (revision 2008 first, then 2010)

Then here are both of them running from butteries (revision 2008 first, then 2010)

In all cases they are loaded to the very same load. We can clearly see that the buttery operation is virtually identical and sonically they are in my view are identical as well. The AC operation has some a few kHz noise injected into 60Hz cycle something that I two years back called “fuzziness”. If we compare the 2008 and 2010 fuzziness then it is very obvious that that the 2010 fuzziness is MUCH better lover amplitude, even spread across wider area. So, of the PP revision of 2010 is so much better than rev. 2008 then why the rev. 2010 sonically so bright?

To understand the answers to this question you need to understand one of the main consents of my audio believe, something that I very aggressively use foe my playback design. Facts are not causality, fact are juts outcomes presented to the realm of know. If distortions are facts then we do not hear distortion but we hear the mechanisms that course the distortions. We do not fight with distortions as they are irrelevant. However, by tuning and fixing the poisoning effects that cause the distortions we affect true results. So, it is obvious that some of noise coming through the regenerator, it might be AC noise of it might be (and most likely) the PP2000’s own noise affect the unit output. How can we say that this affect is negative if in 2008 it has very minor (if any) negative effect to sound and in 2010 the sound is much worth but the measurable output noise is much less? Again, “we do not hear distortion but we hear the mechanisms that course the distortions”. We need to find the mechanism that creates those distortions. If we do then we will have answer that we are looking for. The guess of my engineers to whom I asked this question was that DC-DC converter (that does not work when unit runs from buttery) produce some ground, or air or some kind of other noise (that all packed in the box very tight) that penetrate the output stage of final amp or the oscillator circuit. It looks like DC-DC converter that bust 72V battery to 165V, the oscillating circuit and the output stages are fine but as soon the DC-DC converter drive voltage to 72 and rectifiers are activated they somehow leak noise output stages.

OK, let talk about the PP2000 #2. This is the unit sound of which I did not like last night as was not able to figure out what I did not like. This is pure BS, sorry PurePower people but you absolutely shall not be doing this. The negate wave of the sinusoid is horizontally clipped, which is an indication that the internal amp runs at unofficial voltage. The DC offset regulator can change the depth of the clipping but it is not able to eliminate it. Also, the entire sinusoid is very shaky, as I look at the scope it trembles like at the time of earthquake.  Something is very mis-regulated with this unit and in my mind it shall not be ships out to customer. Interesting that nowadays the PurePower regenerators are shipped with certificates of testing. I did not even look at them as I am convinced that they are fine. So, ether PurePower fakes the resting results or then test wrong things. How else one would explain that a unit with clipped wave would be send out to the field.

The OK, let talk about the PP2000 #1. This is absolute mystery. It has virtually the same output and the same wave as the PP2000 #3 but absolutely different sound. This type of the thing MUST be researched in order to fine the prime what makes electricity to sound bad. That is execrably what I would like PurePower to do. Let pretend that I use too slow scope and juts do not see the UHF oscillations. Let pretend that rectifiers produce switching noise (and this thing goes across anything) that got some penetration to inputs of the class D amps and shaking by feedback the whole output stage is in 700-800kH oscillations. Did you see how oscillations in high mu tubes kills all sound, might it be something like this in PP2000? Absolutely, it might be anything! And this searching for this “something” shall be what PurePower shall de and do not blame the whistle blowers that they “slandered my product in a public forum for no good reason except your mis-diagnosis and rush to judgement”. Frankly speaking I am very much offended with this feedbag. I was under impression that my and PurePower goals are the same – to have better devise to deal with electricity problems. If PurePower would claim innocents but the fact that they sold 100s of those units and everyone love them then it: 1) would not fly in my books 2) not true.   I can continue this explanation if PurePower insists.

Anyhow, I still am waiting for the PurePower response. It is very possible that there is no design true difference between PP2000 from 2008 and PP2000 from 2010.  The differences in sound might be explained by “normal” production differences of PP2000 units. PurePower need to found out what is responsible for of their regenerator Sound and learn how to calibrate PP2000 in order it has default sonic characteristic. The do NOT do it now and it looks like sonic performance of their units are absolutely random.

In the end I need to say that I am tired from this whole situation I am tired deal with company where customers want better and more stable resets then manufactures can furnish. I still feel that USP devise with class D amps made specifically for audio purpose is the way to go but at this point if I know another alternative of the same product then I would try it.  The PurePower is very close to where they need to be – their PP2000 DC operation is the ultimate that answers all questions. They are so close from having the “right product” but they do not make the final move. I have no idea what they behave in this way.  A good consultant-designer would within a few weeks find all design and technological problems that might PP2000 and devise a set of calibration and testing procedures. Why PurePower does not go this way? Because the people stupid enough to be satisfied by random results? Well, I do not.

manisandher wrote:

I don't have a scope, so can't measure the output of my particular unit.

manisandher wrote:

However, if I were to guess, I would say that my unit probably falls alongside your #2 unit. When run from AC, the bass disappears and the sound becomes bright and edgy, to the point of being unlistenable. From battery though, the sound is full and harmonically rich - very, very nice indeed. Quite frankly, you would have to be deaf not to be able to hear the difference.

manisandher wrote:

Having said that, when I first received my unit, I had it connected to the system in my study. During an email exchange, I agreed with Bob Rappaport that there seemed to be no difference in sound between AC and battery…

manisandher wrote:

I'm not sure, but perhaps if more PP2000 owners voice their opinions, PP will stop living in denial.

Romy the Cat wrote:

A few words before I lay down the facts. Over the last week I got a number of signals from PurePower that I shall not defame their products. Their marketing director Bob Rapoport – a certifiable idiots – informed me that my finding about PurePower 2000 are “based on sheer fantasy”, that he “would bet that in a double blind AB test I would never know the difference” and that I shall “take down the entire thread about PurePower from your blog” because it “this is a hobby to you, but its my livelihood”.  Their technical people dodge my calls. They claims that they here no difference of any kind between old and new units and between PP2000 running from AC and buttery.  This is very alarming and my odder to demonstrate it to them, even more - my proposal to give my facility and my engineering rescores for their disposal to find the problem – all left without answer. The PurePower owner has, who looks like offsite now days, has more rational position. He also is concern about me “defaming” his company product. He diplomatically implies that “we are interested is solving your problem”, which makes me surprised: my problems? Really? The whole point is that the problem I am experiencing is not my problems but purely the PurePower, or more accurately the problems with PurePower 2000 operation. Rgs, Romy the Cat

"I appreciate audio devices that instead of demonstrating their own qualities, force you to think about sound. The new PurePower 2000 is turning to be such a device. I have so many ideas and so many thoughts with the sound the 2000 produces that I truly surprised myself. Today, spending many hours with my new regenerator and listening to music, I could not hold myself from laughing as many times I caught myself acknowledging that this or that aspect of the sound was exactly how I always insisted it should be. It was like being an orphan and suddenly discovering one's own parents

Somehow the PP2000 surgically removes all negative manifestations that are typically associated with bad electricity but keeps everything else absolutely un-affected.

After spending those 4 days with the PurePower 2000, I suggest that they adopt my proposal for a new slogan: "We do not 'f ***-up' your Sound." As far as my familiarity with power treatment devices is concerned, I know of no other power company or product that might be entitled to use this slogan.

It looks like the PurePower 2000 resolves the problem with electricity once and for good..."

 Roman Bessnow, www.romythecat.com

The above is lifted from their page entitled 'Reviews and Opinions' So we have here, for our common delectation this most debased sort of modern corporate entity, the type of vulture that will prowl the web looking for crumbs of praise from all possible parties, exploit these to serve its most undiluted commercial interests, but threaten legal action the moment one dares say something disparaging about the company's products, even if backed up by a desire to help them get it right. It makes my soul shudder at the sheer gall of it. I cannot tell you how nauseous this kind of hypocritical behaviour makes me feel and how I would love to see PurePowerAPS' lawyers cringe under the scrutiny of any court. The best lube in the world would not protect them from getting what will be the eventual and sure outcome of such a case. From what you write about Bob Rappaport above, it sounds as if this might well suit the gentleman's inclinations.

I read their marketing spiel, their technical claims and their product literature, and whilst it is obvious the company makes many claims of utterly reliable performance and exemplary service, it is clear there are several documented instances where its quality control failed and service was less than exemplary. Actually the service provided by PurePower is so below par that how they have managed to stay around is a complete mystery to me. They fully deserve to vanish without a trace and I can only wish there was another product from a more responsive company, that genuinely understood something about sound, that would do the job.

Romy, this is science and PP does not have a monopoly over a perfectly capable solution to our mains problems. It is only a matter of time before this other solution is found. It is a shame that to some extent you got 'captured,' whether you will openly admit to it or not, as you clearly needed their assistance to sort the flaws with your units. I hope somehow you find your solution soon whether from PP or elsewhere so you can vent your spleen freely about this utterly miserable little company.

Regards
Rakesh

Romy the Cat wrote:

PurePower do not need to collect opinions, including from me. The need to produce a product that has default operational sound and the made of the product shall be assurance of default, repeatable and predictable result.

oxric wrote:

I read their marketing spiel, their technical claims and their product literature, and whilst it is obvious the company makes many claims of utterly reliable performance and exemplary service, it is clear there are several documented instances where its quality control failed and service was less than exemplary. Actually the service provided by PurePower is so below par that how they have managed to stay around is a complete mystery to me. They fully deserve to vanish without a trace and I can only wish there was another product from a more responsive company, that genuinely understood something about sound, that would do the job. Romy, this is science and PP does not have a monopoly over a perfectly capable solution to our mains problems. It is only a matter of time before this other solution is found. It is a shame that to some extent you got 'captured,' whether you will openly admit to it or not, as you clearly needed their assistance to sort the flaws with your units. I hope somehow you find your solution soon whether from PP or elsewhere so you can vent your spleen freely about this utterly miserable little company.

Rakesh, you sound too sane but I still disagree with you. I even disagree with myself while I am disagreeing with you but the rational for my disagreeing I think deserved to be expressed.

I have absolutely no interest or concern about PurePower or make judgment about them. I care about performance of the PP2000, primary as its performance in my home but there are secondary, less important reasons as well. Unfortunately (and this in ONLY in my eyes) the PP does have a monopoly over a perfectly capable solutions to my mains problems. It hard to explain, Rakesh, but if you spend as many years as I did to fight electricity and if you heard the sound of properly operating PP2000 (the way how my  PP2000 was for the last year or today PP2000 from buttery) then you would feel that it was “it”. Sure, PurePower has no monopoly but from what I have seen PurePower is the closest from anybody else to a perfect sound from their regenerators. Of course I did explore a lot of different manufactures who does the similar and was looking if I can jump in their wagon.  I feel that PurePower are the closest to the “promised land”.

There is something else. I did write it many time that I do not think that PurePower know what they do and that sonic results they get are accidental. The problem is that no one know what is going on with electricity and it is a very complex subject. PurePower need to invest some efforts to investigate what is going on wrong but I do not think that they have recourses to do it. I have a number of very serious engineers on my end who observe the progress and who laugh on the situation and they say that this BS is possible only in Hi-Fi…

I do not know where we go from here. I have some clear ideas and some very specific experiments that need to be done with PP2000 but I would like the test were endorsed and underwritten by PurePower. When I spoke with this technical person I am not sure he understood what I was taking about and as now it looks like they “understaffed to handle your phone calls”.  I still would like PurePower to get PP2000 to the point what it will be useful, useful by me. I am not manisandher and I will not use the PP2000 from buttery only – I find it ridicules.  So, I got hooked on the sound that PP2000 might deliver – I admit it and I do admit that my masochism is voluntary. Trust me however; I know what I do even if I do wrong things.

At present time the concern need to be not about my physiological profile and not about PurePower BBB reputation but about the health of the PP2000 unit. The PurePower does not express about it as much concern as I do – that is the problem.

Jorge wrote:

"I do not know where we go from here. I have some clear ideas and some very specific experiments that need to be done with PP2000 but I would like the test were endorsed and underwritten by PurePower" "I have a number of very serious engineers on my end who observe the progress and who laugh on the situation and they say that this BS is possible only in Hi-Fi…" I see a simple solution, If PurePower doesnt know what to look for, you go ahead and FIX the problem, with your engineers on your end,  then you can pay for all the costs of THE FIX selling your own "Romyzed PurePower",  This is a win-win solution:  PurePower continues to sell their their systems....to you, and you sell them for an overprice after applying this FIX. You dont even have to get your hands dirty,  get in touch with one or more of those modders that "modify" Cd Players, lots of them around to have a pick, and let them do the FIX to the units for you and even send them off....you just collect the money! Or you can just fix YOUR own PP2000 and leave us to our batteries and caps and coils  ;-)

OK, here are my thoughts for today. Below is a very simplified schematic of Pure Power 2000 regenerator.  I do not know if it is, but I think that it is how it works. I do not think that it is different from any other on-line generator. At the link below under the bottom of the first page is a typical operation of such units:

http://www.armspower.com/Products/Powerware/Powerware9330/Powerware9330%20Double%20Conversion%20Online%20Toplogy.pdf

If to simplify everything for PP2000 case then we end up with this:

What we know about the new revision of PP2000 – we know that powering from battery the unit works fine. That means that the yellow past of my diagram are out of suspicion for bad operation. However, when we engage the white elements of my diagram then sound turn shit and it looks like it turn shit not equally on all units. So, I think it would be reasonable to talk about some kind interference that input stages inflict to outputs. What kind interference it might be and the most important how it get propagated to output stages? I think it might be via grounds, air or via wires.  I have no control and no way to test grounds and air theories – this what Pure Power company must do nowadays but I think I can make some tests about the wires propagation interference.

The only wide how the white and yellow sections of PP2000 are connected is the battery (it would be nice if Pure Power would confirm it). So, let see what battery does what unit runs from DC and from AC

The first part of the image the PP2000 runs unit from itself and the second one is what AC is coming in. We see that some AC noise is coming on the negative side what the charger activated. You can get the frequency of the noise – it is 20uSec per square. Also the amplitude of the noise is very low – it is 0.02V per square, so in my mind the charger might works fine. I do not think that exist any higher frequency noise (I use slow 100MHz scope) as this all switching devised that works at 20-30kHz and would be not transparent for any noise over 10-15kHz. So, the interference between AC and DC operation is very low, not to mention that after first DC to DC up-converter it most likely shunted with a large cap that would ground all noise and interference. However, all low voltage logic (and it is a LOT and complex logic) is driven directly from buttery and who knows, might be this minute noise on the negative side makes the low voltage logic to go crazy what it feels it. So, we need to equalize the pane and to make the low voltage logic to see DC identically as it sees when the init runs from buttery. Then, if we still have the problem with sound it will be 100% assurance that the very little noise that butteries get during AC operation is not the problem responsible for sound.

I wish the Pure Power be with me on it as it looks like it is my own problem, anyhow…. My guys advised me to shunt the PP2000 butteries by a pre-charged, large capacitor with a series choke. They explained that butteries have high internal impedance at HF and my external HF filter will deal with all noise.  I need to buy 250,000uF at 100V and try to make the experiment. It would be great if that will be the reason as to address anything else it need to be look on the PP2000 motherboard – something that I do not do. BTW, it would be great if Pure Power make this as the have all equipment setup for those experiments… But it is only if they want results….