I would like to shade light about what is doing on with PurePower PP2000. I know that the readers of my site have own brain, at least some of them, and they do not need me or anybody else to “shade light” on anything. Still, since I was the initiator of the resent PP2000 commotions I feel that my analyses of the situation would be warranted.

I know that there are people out there who feel disappointed about my report that my new PP2000 sounds wrong. Trust me, I feel more that disappointed. Still on the scale of larger picture I feel that what is going on now is one of the best things that happen to PurePower and even for the entire industry. I hope that the brainless idiots who visit my site to looks at the picture and pick some “buy” recommendations will stop to read right here. I hope that the idiot PurePower marketing director – Bob Rapoport will not read further as what will be further would require cognitive intellect – something that he does not have.

Ok, what is coming nest? I would like to offer you to think. I have noted the problem with sound when I detected that sound quality was very drastically change in my room from day to day and during the day. It did not happen before. Now I have 3 different power feeds in my house and they all sound different. When I connect PP2000 to any of those feeds then PP2000 sound bad but bad differently at each of my feeds. At the very same time my PP2000 sound fine from own battery.  Now remember Dima’s Avicenna regenerator? The Avicenna outputs a perfect power wave with ultra low distortion, still the Avicenna has no sonic impact to sound – playback with Avicenna and with Avicenna in bypass sound identical.

http://www.goodsoundclub.com/Forums/ShowPost.aspx?postID=9623#9623

Now many of you have many different regenerators and power treatment devices. You know that some of them work sometimes, in fact some of them work very well. But another day the main have different electricity as the devices is absolutely not effective.  You know for instance that PS Audio Power Plant does out MUCH better wave and my lower distortion abut has no good sound and very transparent to the bad problem that comes from mains.  Now, put all of what I described together. If you do then it would not be difficult to conclude that the problems with my new PP2000 regenerators have are not just that they “sound bad from AC” but that they suddenly stopped to be immune to the problems of electricity in mains. Anybody who played with electricity and sound does know that a perfect wave and low distortions  is not assurance of good sound, that there is “something else” in it. This “something else” got accidently broken in the new PP2000 and this broken “something else” made the new PP2000 do not disengage itself sonically to the bad electricity in main (Despite all DC flatting and regeneration is going on). Essentially the new PP2000 sound remarkably similar to the way how PS Audio Power Plant sounds…

Sure, it is desperately desirable to have someone to blame. Sure it is the bad and mean PurePower fuck up own regenerator. The reality is much more complicated. This “something else” is not known criteria and no one know what will affect that “something else”. In fact as now, the PurePower folks are working in emergency mode, making experiments and are trying to figure out what the problem might be. I guess that it might be tricky as the regenerator that they have in their test might inherent only quality of electricity that they currently have. We do not know what make sound to sound bad; we do not know that makes PP2000 to tune itself from that that “make sound to sound bad” – I am sure that it is not too pleasurable research. However, there is a fantastic catch in all of it. The key to the good electricity sound are in those few changes that PurePower accidently made recently.

So, why I feel that the things that are going on are best things that happen to PurePower and even for the entire industry? Have some imagination. Let pretend that reversing some changes PurePower discovered the reason why their PP2000 suddenly stopped to sound properly. This reason will be a “primer” for good electricity sound. Furthermore it very much might be the case that neither regeneration nor perfect wave even necessary for electricity to be good for audio and all that necessary is to have the “primer” injected in regular main. At least, if the PurePower will discover the primer then it will be assurance that their regenerators will be fine sounding in future. So, even I pissed and my playback is down, I am superbly enthusiastic about the result that it might lead to.  I do feel that what is might lead to is larger than PurePower and larger than me to fix my PP2000. Let hope that it all current situation will lead to some kind of true breakthrough discovery.

Bud wrote:

Yes. Their is a direct correlation between surge current and dielectric materials dielectric constant. The voltages in question are high enough to use a thick dielectric material and just as with the effective resistance of the capacitor, there is a time constant to energy release from a dielectric material. This would never be an issue in normal terms. I realize that you consider SET's to have a constant current draw and this is mostly true, but peak current draw may be quite a different thing with power hungry mid bass signals.

Bud wrote:

That the PP2000 cannot draw enough power to satisfy the system needs from the power line and it's essentially infinite reserve but can draw it from the battery pack says to me that there is a current limiting device in the AC to AC to DC supply circuit., before the battery float point which is at that DC point. Maybe a CLC filter would solve the problem.

Paul S wrote:

Yes, Bud, I agree that the most common problem for the full-tilt regenerators is that they begin to exhibit various problems in direct proportion to current demands.  And this seems to be true even when they are used "below capacity" as stated by mfg.  Is it mere coincidence that a good battery has very excellent curent delivery?  The PP that relies only on its battery is not "asking" anything from its "up" circuits; and I have wondered all along about how the PP switches from line operation to battery-only operation, and if there is any difference in the circuit, per se between "battery in circuit" use and "battery back-up" use.  There must be...

Paul S wrote:

Clearly, something is different when these PPs run off the wall power vs. when they run off their batteries.  Quite a few users have said the PP passes line noises when it is running from the wall, yet it is "quiet" when it is unplugged from the wall.  And now we hear that LF tansients are stronger/better when it's unplugged from the wall?  On the one hand, this "makes no sense".  On the other hand, sense must ultimately be made from this very situatuion.

AOK_Farmer wrote:

I am ready for a subwoofer sized battery pack by the house electrical service feeding the audio dedicated lines. Whats wrong with this solution? It doesn't exist yet? Heck, $15k in the grand scheme of things...

TonyB wrote:

The differences between the battery operation and AC operation are to be expected. One case is isolated (hopefully) from AC, the other case is not. If anybody thinks otherwise, they are fooling themselves.

TonyB wrote:

The first question to ask is to MAKE SURE that the battery is connected even when the unit is running from AC.

TonyB wrote:

If we are 101% sure (ideally by measurement of an open unit when it is operating) that it is connected and that no switches between the battery and the regenerator were changed between the battery and the AC modes operation, then the cause is the charging circuit: it is connected in parallel with the battery in AC mode of operation. There is a number of possible causes and a comparison of the schematics of the current and previous versions would reveal the cause of the latest change in sound.  The reasons for the difference between the battery and AC operation could be: - An extra capacitor after rectifiers is connected in parallel with the battery (it is not there in battery only operation) - The rectifiers generate noise and pass it in both directions - Rectification adds spikes/RFI/EMI to DC which are not there in DC operation - The transformer passes noise form AC to rectified DC - Caps on AC input - Chokes on AC input - Rectification may dump noise, ... into GND line - and many others...

Romy:

You may in the meantime build your own battery pack to increase the playtime you get from batteries. When I last spoke to PurePower (I placed an order for a PP2000 in another life and then cancelled the order), I asked whether they would provide me with necessary specs so I could build my own battery packs. They said I could do so and would send me in an email the specs in question. As it happens, they never bothered to but maybe they will provide you with the specs so you can increase the battery powered playtime, say to about 5-8 hrs so you are not kept indefinitely waiting for PP to resolve the present situation.

Just a thought

Kind regards
Rakesh

oxric wrote:

Romy: You may in the meantime build your own battery pack to increase the playtime you get from batteries. When I last spoke to PurePower (I placed an order for a PP2000 in another life and then cancelled the order), I asked whether they would provide me with necessary specs so I could build my own battery packs. They said I could do so and would send me in an email the specs in question. As it happens, they never bothered to but maybe they will provide you with the specs so you can increase the battery powered playtime, say to about 5-8 hrs so you are not kept indefinitely waiting for PP to resolve the present situation. Just a thought Kind regards Rakesh

Rakesh, I mover your post from the midbass thread:

http://www.RomyTheCat.com/TreeItem.aspx?PostID=15142 

…to keep the midbass project more or less free from electricity subjects, even thought nowadays the electricity do screw my midbass results.

I though myself temporary solution to beef up the PP2000 buttery. I know that PurePower does external Power Packs; I thought to ask PurePower to lend me a few or to get my own. They are 72V butteries; it would be a bit costly to make them at capacity, probably a few thousand dollars – too much for interim solution. If PurePower would propose to send me a few then I would probably use them but I afraid that it might keep PurePower from feeling the emergency to fix the problem.

There is another even bigger; my main reason why I feel the extended buttery might not be a good idea.  I do not know how PurePower does in sale but I do feel that they sell mostly regenerators not the buttery Power Packs. I would not be surprised if they do not sell buttery packs at all as operation from buttery packs is not what the unit meant to do. When you add more buttery packs to on-line UPS device then you can’t do it endlessly. The UPS devise has to have on-board automated chargers the will be able to handle the currents that extended battery packs would demand. The contemporary charging logic is all SS and all computerize, so it is very precise and very fragile. I am not sure that the PurePower units are tested properly for some kind of enormous buttery attached to them. If you look for APC UPS device then they strictly informs that max amount of A/H the given UPS device can charge. A few more mA void warranty.  That is right approach as the PS for charging are not bottomless. I am not sure that PurePower, truly know the current limit of their buttery charger and I do not want to be the person who “researches” it. It is not to mention that my all 3 PP2000 shut itself up with all different and very non-critical buttery drainage – 40%, 56% and 86%(!) of FULL charge.

So, I do not want to dive in unknown with buttery charging debugging and I would like to have my AC operation back to service….

I suppose there are the usual strong strictures against it, but has anyone tried lifting the (3rd wire) ground only during wall-powered operation?  Best results, whatever that might mean, would require a "dedicated home run" for the neutral wire.

Paul S

Jorge wrote:

This is very interesting; http://www.mother-of-tone.com/index.htm