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  »  New  DVD for pop, SACD for classics..  Sample rate conversion...  Didital Things  Forum     4  47601  02-14-2008
  »  New  Today’s SACD - music for oscilloscopes. ..  Teresa Goodwin and her girly things....  Didital Things  Forum     8  103424  04-30-2005
  »  New  The High Resolution PCM files business, where?..  Really bad...  Didital Things  Forum     31  238236  09-29-2009
  »  New  Analog vs. Digital... without BS...  Are we comparing anything except our own prejudices?...  Didital Things  Forum     23  184181  04-15-2009
04-02-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,183
Joined on 05-28-2004
Post #: 1
Post ID: 18030
Reply to: 18030
To buy an SACD Player?
fiogf49gjkf0d

My contra-SACD position is well known but unfortunately as I predicted mode and more SACD recording are being realized and they have already vandalized by SACD format. It look like no one record nowadays on PCM if companies even want to release 24bit  PCM recording then they record in SACD and convert the files to 24bit  PCM.  So, essentially we do not buy the 24bit master dabs but the down converted surrogate that use PCM as source. It is not so bad the recordings has been already compromised but SACD but then in the picture enter an idiot who do conversion with his $99 converter and his desire to “improve” the things. It would be kind of good if the idiot releases the 24bit as “dab” from the master SACD file. The most retarded from those idiots actually copy of the SACD disks to PCM. The David Chesky’s HDTracks do it for years:

https://www.hdtracks.com/index.php?file=catalogdetail&valbum_code=HD827949005169

Those Morons’ hands need to be cut by chain saw and very slowly. The PentaTone Classics never recorded or released the Kreizberg/Vienna take on Bruckner but the HDTracks sell the 16bit and 24bit files that they made… from 16bit version CD layer of SACD. What a fucking idiots!!!

Anyhow, with all my unhappiness of the situation the dirty dirt very frequently write the CD layer of SACD with MUCH inferior quality (to encourage customers to buy SACD because it is “better”). This way quite a lot of never music become not available to play by CD. So, I wonder if it worth to me buy a damn SACD player. I have absolutely no knowledge about SACD players, have no interests to learn it and extend absolutely no credibility to the people who consider themselves the SACD experts. Still, I would like to hear my Bruckner in high-res format and unfortunately it is not available other vise. So, is any $200 SACD player or SACD CD-ROM for my DAW is available out there?

Romy the Cat

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
04-02-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
manisandher
London
Posts 158
Joined on 09-05-2008
Post #: 2
Post ID: 18031
Reply to: 18030
I still have a real aversion to SACD players, but...
fiogf49gjkf0d
... am intrigued with DSD DACs. And for three main reasons:

1) If you look at the attached jpeg (taken from http://www.korg.com/services/products/mr/Future_Proof_Recording_Explaine...), DSD recording appears to have a simpler path than most modern PCM recording. (However, this is not the case with the ADCs you use as both the Lavry and PM converters use ladder ADC/DAC chips with no sigma-delta modulator stages, as far as I know.)

2) DSD downloads are on the rise.

3) SACDs can now be ripped to .dff files (though this requires an early Sony PS3 machine to do the ripping), which can then be replayed on a DSD DAC.

I recently bought a Mytek DSD DAC and can rip SACDs to .dff files with a PS3. I haven't spent a lot of time listening to .dff files on the Mytek, but what I've heard so far is pretty encouraging - not as good as the best PCM, but better than all the modern PCM DACs (all of which use SDM stages) I've heard.

Mani.

EDIT: can't seem to attach jpeg
04-02-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,672
Joined on 10-12-2006
Post #: 3
Post ID: 18032
Reply to: 18031
Ed Meitner for Sony Frightwig
fiogf49gjkf0d
The first time I heard the Sony 777 playing a "SUPERCD" I could barely restrain myself from bolting!  Absolutely abominable, and this from the guy who did my favorite "redbook" DAC...

Since I know you are looking I will try to pay attention, something I have NOT done (for good reason) since the last time I crossed paths with the format.

FWIW, there are those who insist that the Sony Playstation is the Universal Regent.

Best regards,
Paul S
04-03-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,183
Joined on 05-28-2004
Post #: 4
Post ID: 18033
Reply to: 18031
How to redeem the intentionally degraded CD layer.
fiogf49gjkf0d
I do not have any special animosity against DSD beside that fact that it is a fundamentally compromised format to be “final” format.  My presumption that I might comply one day with a need to buy a SACD player comes from the fact that the industry intentionally degrades the quality of CD layers in SACD disk and this lives no options. As in anything else the problem is not in technology for the moist part but in the idiots human who run the technologies.  The same problem with high-res PCM downloads.

I do not know. I would by an SACD player, I do not need any “universal” player as I do have my ways to play other formats and I do not think that any universal machine will be able to match it. I do not want any external DAC, I just thinking about ½ size little player juts to spin SACD only and output analog signal. The SACD is over 13 year in the field and I hope that good SACD mini-units do exist out there.  I do not look to get a full-brume SACD, whatever they feel it might mean. All that I am looking to play the DSD layer of the SACD disks as the idiots mostly vandalize the CD layers of the SACD disks. I clearly understand that the DSD layer of the SACD disks is the same PCM stream that was multiple times converted from DSD to PCM but I am sure that it will be better of the intentionally degraded CD layer.

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
04-03-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,183
Joined on 05-28-2004
Post #: 5
Post ID: 18034
Reply to: 18032
The sound of exaggerated irrelevancy.
fiogf49gjkf0d
Paul, for sure Meitner’s product have own sound and own sonic objectives. I do not know if it is the way how Meitner wants it to be or he just address the barbaric demands of idiots who are 99% of his customers. In case the professionals who have public products it is hard or not necessary to talk about their personal preference bit only about the capacity of the public offering.

So to me the Sound that Meitner targets very much remind me what DG did in end of the 50s.  From end of 1953 and to the mid of 60s DG produced 7” 45RPM singles. Theses singles had very distinct sound of exaggerated irrelevancy – something that I very much associate with Meitner SACD sound.

The Cat

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
04-03-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,672
Joined on 10-12-2006
Post #: 6
Post ID: 18035
Reply to: 18034
Melly Clissimess
fiogf49gjkf0d
Sure, Romy, of course I understand the EM vs Sony (or whomever...) issues,; but still there is no mistaking the consequences in this case.

I love your header and closer, which exactly sum it up.  I think of a careful water color painting that is smeared just before it drys.  Then, some sort of clear-ish coating is glopped over it, and it is lit up like a Christmas tree.

Best regards,
Paul S
04-17-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
el`Ol
Posts 225
Joined on 10-13-2007
Post #: 7
Post ID: 18072
Reply to: 18033
Soft-washing
fiogf49gjkf0d
 Romy the Cat wrote:
All that I am looking to play the DSD layer of the SACD disks as the idiots mostly vandalize the CD layers of the SACD disks. I clearly understand that the DSD layer of the SACD disks is the same PCM stream that was multiple times converted from DSD to PCM but I am sure that it will be better of the intentionally degraded CD layer.

Soft-washing helps with the SACD PCM layer as it helps with MPEG compression or CDs from the eightees with jitter or problems in digital domain. The Tube DAC II from Accustic Arts is the most cultivated soft-washer I know, but maybe a bit expensive as a third DAC for bad material only.
01-15-2013 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
steverino
Posts 367
Joined on 05-23-2009
Post #: 8
Post ID: 18899
Reply to: 18033
Cheap sacd players
fiogf49gjkf0d
FWIW the only really cheap (less than $400) SACD players of any build quality I've seen are either used Sony ES series or Oppo units.  I believe the Oppo units convert the DSD  stream to PCM at output while the Sonys supposedly don't. Even with the Sony ES, many sellers want $700 or more but once in a while someone offers one for less.
Page 1 of 1 (8 items) Select Pages: 
   Target    Threads for related reading   Most recent post in related threads   Forum  Replies   Views   Started 
  »  New  DVD for pop, SACD for classics..  Sample rate conversion...  Didital Things  Forum     4  47601  02-14-2008
  »  New  Today’s SACD - music for oscilloscopes. ..  Teresa Goodwin and her girly things....  Didital Things  Forum     8  103424  04-30-2005
  »  New  The High Resolution PCM files business, where?..  Really bad...  Didital Things  Forum     31  238236  09-29-2009
  »  New  Analog vs. Digital... without BS...  Are we comparing anything except our own prejudices?...  Didital Things  Forum     23  184181  04-15-2009
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