Romy the Cat wrote:

BTW, let me to expand a littlie on my last comment. I always personally with some suspicion and difficulty “get” what German high-end audio does. They frequently target some very “bicepsy” sound but they kid of very liberal, sometimes to a point of complete disrespect to some tonal load. Ironically the “late” German music kind looks at the same direction. German are so damn spoiled with great traditions and legacy of superb tonal music that nowadays they find some “kinkiness” in doing black/white. I kind of understand it and perhaps appreciate it but me being me I looking for something different. I remember once I was lost my driving directions and was wondering across the hilly roads in country side of South Bavaria. I ended up driving up some mountain and found an extremely sexy, almost ruined castle at the top of the hill. There were no people there and I dropped my car and decided to walk around. This led me to a deep forest but it was deferent forest then I knew. It was very clean but at the same time it was “deep” with some natural dramatization. I had no idea where this drama came from but it was physically presented in the very moisture air and forest had own sound. It is hard to explain, but it was very distinct sound of a cold, full with morning mountain dew air and listening of this Sound I suddenly understood how I would like Beethoven’s sound. Since then, listening German music, I always look of that “wet” and “deep”, with mind smell of spruce and pine tone… I know that TAD would not do it for me as they are more on “synthetic” side of the wagon. But for Germans, who might not necessary in search for “my version of the Beethoven tone”, the “bicepsy” and "showy" TAD character might do… It would be similar to that fact that  many Westerners adore Shostakovich and his jumpy and vulgar phraseology but many Russians of my generations, listening in our childhood very many of Shostakovich’s shity compositions (and many equally shity imitations) that were presented to us in context of Communist Propaganda - we really can not stand much of what Shostakovich composed…

RonyWeissman wrote:

Well romy will probably disagree or maybe find it off topic but I am sorry there is huge margins built in somewhere if someone is trying to sell me wood cabinets with TAD drivers for 140k $.   One of you guys can add it up for me and tell me if I'm wrong.  thanks

http://www.GoodSoundClub.com/TreeItem.aspx?PostID=3665

Sine it is $150K acoustic system then it should be form my point of view a more or less ultimate statement and 30Hz of most likely EQed bass (even presumably properly done) it is not where I would like to stop for $150K. it would be similar to Lamm ML3: not matter how it might be OK sounding amp but topologically it is not a final solution for SET amplifier and therefore it might cost $126K but it does not worth and an ultimate SET solution.

RonyWeissman is right the Gammas are 3 horns, 4 drivers and it is it. Sure Cessaros oblige anyone who do for Gammas to buy a two sets of the LF horns that are probably more expanse to ship, install and to make then the rest Cessaros horns.  It is possible that the Cessaros LF section worth it I do not know – more data or audition is necessary. If they are stock TADs than we all know this prices and the entire Gammas (with LF) cost around -$10K or pretty much the very same as cost of my Macondo – they basically the very same systems. The Cessaros since it a prediction should twice less expansive to make. How Cessaros went from 10K+LF for 150K? Well, I think it is the way how it works in dan hi-fi. We are not bitching that sneakers that we pay $70 cost 34 cents to make we kind of use to it….

Well, I less concern about the absolute praise of Gammas – I let worry about it to the folks who are considering to but them - but I would rather to look at the Gammas form a different perspective: what options a person who is wiling to spend $100K for acoustic systems has today?  I can name quite a few over $100K speakers that are incredible crap.  There are some over $100K speakers that are not craps but have quite a lot of problems that I feel suck an expensive acoustic systems should not have.  From my point of view if Gammas are properly done than even with TADs Gammas should blow many over $100K speakers out of water and I think this fact would be a good excurse for the Cessaros folks to price their top model at $150K.

It thinks it should be well understood that when we are talking about $150K level then there is not direct rational that relates the price to anything and the price refers only to an abstract number with which the sales people can still get away with. So, warmly accepting the Cessaros I mostly appreciate what they were truing to do form a perspective of horns progress but I completely indifferent and sightless to the prices they are wiling to extort from this customers. Perhaps if I pay my living expenses with  audio sales I would feel different but since I do not I see little difference if Cessaros would cost $15K or $150K…

NBC wrote:

Hi Romy, Since you have certain opinions on TAD/Beryllium sound, Im curious: 1) Which TAD drivers you evaluated (2001, 2002, 4001, 4002, 4003) ? 2) With what Fc horns? 3) With what horn materials? 4) With what Xovers?

Just a quick note ,I went over to Germany and listened to a pair of Cessaro Alpha's at the home of TW Acoustic's Thomas Woschnick, I thought them absolutely superb, far more 'real' than any other speaker I have heard, ( impossible to hear everything of course ) . I  made the decision to buy a pair almost instantly , going over to collect the speakers after the Munich 'Hi-End' show, I am also going to listen to a set of Cessaro Gamma's, at the designers home, if there is any interest I will post my thoughts on the Alpha's and Gamma's and any other interesting horns I hear at Munich.

coops wrote:

Just a quick note ,I went over to Germany and listened to a pair of Cessaro Alpha's at the home of TW Acoustic's Thomas Woschnick, I thought them absolutely superb, far more 'real' than any other speaker I have heard, ( impossible to hear everything of course ) . I  made the decision to buy a pair almost instantly, going over to collect the speakers after the Munich 'Hi-End' show, I am also going to listen to a set of Cessaro Gamma's, at the designers home, if there is any interest I will post my thoughts on the Alpha's and Gamma's and any other interesting horns I hear at Munich.

Rgs, the Cat

coops wrote:

Romy just a quick post, after the Munich show I had the oppurtunity to spend a few hours listening to Ralph Krebs home system, the Cessaro Gamma's, super sound, the antithesis of almost everything I heard at the MOC, regards Keith.

There are a few areas where I would express curiosity....

1) How he drive the thing. Horns vs. bass channels. Do they consider to supply own electronics along with the Gamma installations
2) Did he try any “open bottom” LF section to compliment his horn-loaded bass
3) Can his TAD driver or the modifications that he presumably use care serious tone and do not be the typically TAD-techy.
4) From which maximum close distance the horns still hold good vertical instigation.
5) What upper bass driver is used and how it loaded.
6) What kind means they provide for an average customer to synchronize the angle of the upper home with the aliment-maintaining exertion of the upper horn.
7) Are any Gamma installations in US?

Very nice, Keith, thanks. The most interesting would be to access the “Absolute Tone” capacity of the Gamma. Frankly I feel that with TADs it should not be very too advanced as they are at BMS/TOA domain, only with a little TAD syntactic twist. Even the 2440/375 have more interesting “Absolute Tone”…. I am not well familiar with GOTO (I heard only two installations with then but never owned them) but what I cat feel from my accidental and generally empirical evidences suggest that GOTO have to be very sterile in term of “Absolute Tone” with TAD being on the simulated side of the GOTO’ sterile.

With horns everything is very easy: do not make stupid mistakes and everything will work fine. I do not see any obvious mistakes in Gamma and it is probably the only horn speakers about which I might say it. That brings us back to let the acoustic system to sound as good as the drivers are. Sure the Gamma is a series mass-market model but still I have not mass-market interests…

Unfortunately it is imposable to judge tonal capacity of speakers without relative terms. I generally religiously against comparing of audio ands I feel that only the Morons do it but I know that the nobility of tone is a very different category… and there is no other ways to learn it besides to be exposed to better “Absolute Tone”. The experience of the folks that deal with some of vintage drivers is a good illustration…

Your Raplh should know what I am taking about but I do not know if he knows that it is possible to modulate acoustically the more enhanced “Absolute Tone”. Pitch to him my experience with Injection Channel. Perhaps he or someone else would find better solution for the concept or friendlier implementation… Frankly, if I designed the Macondo from scratch now, after knowing about the Injection Channels what I know now, then I might make some thing slightly differently.

It looks like Cessaro horns begin to spread this distribution. According to the messages on their blog the Hong Kong shop got Cessaro Alpha. Well, I care less about the Alphas, they are similar to the Avantgarde’s Uno/Duo should be very problematic. However, it is a good sign thet the Cessaro feels that they are ready to go public, outside of their “fatherlend”. I hope another 2-3 years and some kind of distributor at US East Cost will have the full set of Cessaro Gammas in their show room. It might be worth a trip… Or being me: perhaps I need to live in illusions and to avoid a disappointment of facing of reality…  :-)

Anyhow, here are the blog posts from Hong Kong

http://www.audioexotics.hk/forum.php?cat=4&show=0&id=1837&fshow=0

http://www.audioexotics.hk/forum.php?cat=4&show=0&id=1782&fshow=0

http://www.audioexotics.hk/forum.php?cat=4&show=0&id=1791&fshow=0

I wonder, 8 years ago Jim Smith created some momentum with Avantgardes, making some good horn’s noise and (I hope) good money on it. With all Avantgarde’s problems the Trios were a good attempt to inject some “hornynenss” into the mind of US audio public. (Despite that I heard only 2 more or less interestingly performing Trios installations). Since then, Jim Smith retired from Avantgardes and the company went to the deserving dark shadow… The other existing commercial horns projects available in US unfortunately are ether targeted for audio bottom-eaters, or just very crappy horns, or have no access to the high-demanding customers.

So, I it will be interesting to see if a $150K Cessaro Gammas will hit US’s Hi-Fi market. Sure, to do so, the Cessaro need to build up a large traffic of the cheap models Alpha and Betas. Then they will have the Gamma’s installation(s) available in US to “keep the Morons anxious”. I think it is a time for Cessaro to employ the advanced audio-marketing: “the Hairy Pearson”, “the Sunshine Framer” or any other audio-writing whores and to make them to blab a little about horns jeneraly, and the Cessaro’s Gammas ability to deliver to each suburban-boring audio-trash a personal touch of Patricia Barber…..

Hence, I hope the new folks emerge out there who would undertake the labor that Jim Smith did with Avantgardes. I hope with Cessaro it will be easier for that new person, as the Cessaro people (looks like) have more sensible regarding to what they deal with… BTW, it would be interesting to hear Jim Smith about the Cessaro Gammas perspectives in US….