Romy the Cat wrote:

I think it is wider then just Schroeder arms. Did you see ANY discussions about the Sonic Quality of hyped products?

No. the typical audiophile has the following tatoo onto his forehead "I-buy-I-Am"

Romy the Cat wrote:

you pay attention that they do not exist? I mean the herded morons constantly believe that they talk about Sound but in reality they just recite the artificial taking points were given to them by the people who light up the hype.

My Grandpa (God bless him) told me once: "Treat an Idiot like an Idiot. When you explain something, you will confuse him"

That sentence makes the Audiophile life easier with products like, LP12, Garrard, Schroeder, Koetsu, Clearaudio...." and the latest "Faschisto" group, Raven Turntables

Romy the Cat wrote:

I have seen zillion exemplas and I do have very high sensitivity to distinct an original thinking about Sound from the empty-headed semantic blabbering about audio where words have no sensed meaning (90% of all conversations by audio people).

"blabbering" is the blood pumping through the body of an Audiophile.

They have absolutely no idea from "High end" but they know exactly from what they talk.

Romy the Cat wrote:

Saying all of it in the Schroeder thread I do not insist that nether Frank Schroeder or his arms are subordinates of the above mention percentage. As I told above I have my rational do not give damn about anything Schroeder-related. The fact that Schroedists admiration I have heard about are coming from the sleaziest scams do not help to the Schroeder tonearms. The Cat

Hi everyone,

As I said, I never intended to be the advocate of the devil. Now that this thread seemed to have resolved that the Shroder tonearm is either over-hyped, or at any rate that its  manufacturer is beneath contempt because of his association with OMA, it seems people have moved on to a much wider ranging issue. By the way, for the sake of fairness, and to avoid ambiguity, I would like to say that my unqualified view is that Frank Shroder should stand or fall on the basis of the merits or demerits of his tonearms, not his business associations, unless Mr. Weiss is, and it is clear that this is the case, so beneath the acceptable norms that no one in their right mind or with a modicum of decency should associate with him.

Romy wrote:

I think it is wider then just Schroeder arms. Did you see ANY discussions about the Sonic Quality of hyped products? Did you pay attention that they do not exist? I mean the herded morons constantly believe that they talk about Sound but in reality they just recite the artificial taking points were given to them by the people who light up the hype. I have seen zillion exemplas and I do have very high sensitivity to distinct an original thinking about Sound from the empty-headed semantic blabbering about audio where words have no sensed meaning (90% of all conversations by audio people).

Saying all of it in the Schroeder thread I do not insist that nether Frank Schroeder or his arms are subordinates of the above mention percentage. As I told above I have my rational do not give damn about anything Schroeder-related. The fact that Schroedists admiration I have heard about are coming from the sleaziest scams do not help to the Schroeder tonearms.

Since this thread has moved somewhat from its initial heading, I would think that the topic now under 'scrutiny', that is the duplicitous nature of all discussion surrounding hyped products, would seem to merit its own thread. I agree with some of the views stated above, but not in the absolute terms in which they are put.

I know for a fact that if I were to stand accused of such a charge, a number of unpalatable facts would come to light about me, and I would have to hang my head in disgrace. I do read a fair number of the unappetizing press, whether originating from the UK, the US and continental Europe. I have made purchases more than once on the basis of some of these ‘hyped’ recommendations, specially cartridges, tonearms and analogue playback devices, since  these are rather hard to have demonstrated satisfactorily at home or at shows. And yes, I have eventually sold 90% of the ‘moronified’ components I bought on the basis of these various reviews, hyped opinions by industry  cheerleaders etc. Often then I have learnt the hard way.

“A sadder and a wiser man

 He rose the morrow morn”

The Rhyme of the Ancient Mariner, ST Coleridge

My gained wisdom on the ‘morrow morn’ still has not prevented me from making these same mistakes all over again. I do show more caution than previously, at least I hope so. If anyone has a burning desire to know what I envisage as my next blind purchase – it would be the OPPO 83SE to use as a source in my home cinema system (they are not represented in the UK), and possibly the SME312s to compare to my current previous generation SMEs. This will be in the summer when I have completed a couple of property purchases in the next few months with a view to moving to France permanently or semi-permanently someday. In some ways, Romy, your present circumstances mirror mine although we differ so much in our views, attitudes and pretty much everything else I imagine.

For about a year now, I have been preparing for the possibility that I may decide to move at some point in time. My approach has been somewhat different to that advocated at a number of places in the relevant thread, based on past experience with movers. Since that thread has now moved on, and this one is rambling aimlessly, I will include my advice here about moving companies and movers – never trust them, as it is enough for a rogue element to be present for the worst to happen. I have dedicated custom, heavily padded, boxes, some with secure individual compartments for delicate  accessories etc. made for everything that I want to keep long-term. These boxes are made here on the premises and will withstand the rigours of travel. Some of them have industrial strength lockable caster wheels to facilitate movement of rather heavy equipment. I use reliable people I trust, who know me and my equipment well, to become movers for a day when it comes to moving all the delicate and vulnerable components/stuff. The boxes are sturdy but can be completely dismantled when not in use. In this way, I know I will be ready to move easily, and again as and when the need arises. This plan has now been in motion for about 5 months and is about 70-80% complete I would say.

All the best

Rakesh, before everything: you use MS Word to type messages and it has some strange styling formatting that My Word cleaning server scrip cannot clean. As the result your posts screw formatting of my site. I was trying to research what style items are guilty but I did not find it right the way and I do not have time nowadays for deeper anises. So, it would greatly be useful if you in future paste your post from ASCII editor. Alternatively, after you paste your text from MS Word to my text box you might use a button “Clean MS Word HTML” on the right of the reply toolbar (it was a big blue “W”). That shall kill all your “odd” formatting and then you might “paint” the text with my editor tools.

oxric wrote:

As I said, I never intended to be the advocate of the devil. Now that this thread seemed to have resolved that the Shroder tonearm is either over-hyped, or at any rate that its  manufacturer is beneath contempt because of his association with OMA, it seems people have moved on to a much wider ranging issue.

Rakesh, not one say, at least I did not say, that Shroder tonearm over-hyped. What I insists that the people who sell them in US are not only known to be the over-hype providers but they has no other skills or qualification then hype management.  I hope you recognize the difference.

oxric wrote:

By the way, for the sake of fairness, and to avoid ambiguity, I would like to say that my unqualified view is that Frank Shroder should stand or fall on the basis of the merits or demerits of his tonearms, not his business associations, unless Mr. Weiss is, and it is clear that this is the case, so beneath the acceptable norms that no one in their right mind or with a modicum of decency should associate with him.

Why who cares about Frank Shroder? This thread is not judgment over him, and I do not think he shall care about anybody makes any judgment. This thread turned out to be into my rejection of anything Frank Shroder does or say JUST BECAUSE his association with Jonathan Weiss. You deny my right to walk out of room and loose my interest if I see let say Nazi swastika of KKK hood? Why you deny my rights to behave the same if I feel the stench of the Weiss-ness? (Again, do not behave like a infant, it has absolutely nothing to do with Frank Shroder being German, like Germany and have no problem with Germans.)

oxric wrote:

Since this thread has moved somewhat from its initial heading, I would think that the topic now under 'scrutiny', that is the duplicitous nature of all discussion surrounding hyped products, would seem to merit its own thread. I agree with some of the views stated above, but not in the absolute terms in which they are put.

The absolute term? Oxric, are you under impression that a normal person would be searching the absolute term in this (or any other) site? absolute terms are the subject of fulfillment of own requirement and it might not be found outside…

oxric wrote:

If anyone has a burning desire to know what I envisage as my next blind purchase – it would be the OPPO 83SE to use as a source in my home cinema system (they are not represented in the UK), and possibly the SME312s to compare to my current previous generation SMEs. This will be in the summer when I have completed a couple of property purchases in the next few months with a view to moving to France permanently or semi-permanently someday. In some ways, Romy, your present circumstances mirror mine although we differ so much in our views, attitudes and pretty much everything else I imagine.

Rakesh, I have completely different approach to “tonearms purchasing”, or to the purchasing of any new audio. Pay attention that I asked Frank Schroder only one question and he gave quote foolish answer, ironically the very same answers that Weiss would give. This did not escape my attention even if I did not comment on it.

oxric wrote:

For about a year now, I have been preparing for the possibility that I may decide to move at some point in time. My approach has been somewhat different to that advocated at a number of places in the relevant thread, based on past experience with movers. Since that thread has now moved on, and this one is rambling aimlessly, I will include my advice here about moving companies and movers – never trust them, as it is enough for a rogue element to be present for the worst to happen. I have dedicated custom, heavily padded, boxes, some with secure individual compartments for delicate  accessories etc. made for everything that I want to keep long-term. These boxes are made here on the premises and will withstand the rigours of travel. Some of them have industrial strength lockable caster wheels to facilitate movement of rather heavy equipment. I use reliable people I trust, who know me and my equipment well, to become movers for a day when it comes to moving all the delicate and vulnerable components/stuff. The boxes are sturdy but can be completely dismantled when not in use. In this way, I know I will be ready to move easily, and again as and when the need arises. This plan has now been in motion for about 5 months and is about 70-80% complete I would say.

Thanks, I have devised a very good in my view moving strategy and have find good movers that I feel comfortable. I will report the results in the appropriate there after they move me and will bend all my tonearms…

Romy wrote:

Rakesh, before everything: you use MS Word to type messages and it has some strange styling formatting that My Word cleaning server scrip cannot clean. As the result your posts screw formatting of my site. I was trying to research what style items are guilty but I did not find it right the way and I do not have time nowadays for deeper anises. So, it would greatly be useful if you in future paste your post from ASCII editor. Alternatively, after you paste your text from MS Word to my text box you might use a button “Clean MS Word HTML” on the right of the reply toolbar (it was a big blue “W”). That shall kill all your “odd” formatting and then you might “paint” the text with my editor tools.

Romy,

I did not realise using MSWord had these consequences. Maybe that's very obvious to all the savvy 'forum members' here, I am still getting to grip using the 'reply' tools on this forum. In the future, I will not use MS Word. I tend to use it as it's a more natural environment for me and allows me to organise my thoughts better. My first language is not english, so I join the legions of visitors to your website who according to Jonathan Weiss, 'don't read English too well.' This is what he has to say, in a singularly isolated thread entry dated December 20, 2009, which can be found in full below for your delectation should you be so inclined:
http://oswaldsmillaudio.com/forum2/index.php?topic=403.0

Jonathan Weiss wrote:

Now, the reason I bring up a thread about my favorite AntiChrist (Romy) is that I find it so unbelievable, so incredibly amusing, that this guy has any followers at all, given his level of expertise, and I'm completely ignoring the issue of his "exposition." It is of course amazing that people would turn to a guy who uses that kind of vocabulary to discuss people and things, but perhaps most of the visitors to his site don't read English too well. Nonetheless, and this is my point, how can anyone take this Moron seriously when he writes something like the following in a thread about the Schroeder arms,

I presume his meaning is that your website contributors, or followers as he calls them (interesting thought that, would I qualify as a 'follower'), who for some reason, are unable to read english 'too well,' would have even  more serious problems expressing their thoughts, thereby suffering the same problems to a lesser or greater degree, as yourself, in terms of exposition. Does anyone here know the sort of qualifications that Mr. Weiss possesses, which make him such a rare authority on matters of the English language and relating to discourse, and which eventually led to his present position in life as a shopkeeper?

Mr. Weiss seems to enjoy the level of intelligence and subtlety of expression one would expect to find in a plancton, and as we know one may wait a long while for evolution to finesse its handiwork here.

Regards
Rakesh

Stitch,

You outlined very nicely the pattern that exists with quite many products in audio, I call it Whorish Fear Marketing I can’t say that the same happens with Schroeder arms. I just do not know as I never paid any attention to those arms. Jonathan Weiss wais is one of the strong proponents of the Whorish Fear Marketing and as I learned that there is Weiss- Schroeder alliance then I lost any interest to Schroeder arms. I know from many-many examples and from many people that in order to be “linked” by Jonathan Weiss a product, person or event shall have a very specific Whorish Identity and very recognizable performing level. They are vampires of audio and very much abhor anything they are able defecate out of their empty brain.

Again, all of this is not about Mr. Schroeder or his arms. However, he absolutely voluntary embrace all this crap that Weiss is and therefore his is an accomplice of the Whorish Fear Marketing. Does a manufactures who has respect to itself and has an able, self-demonstrable product needs to use the Whorish Fear Marketing? I do not think so. O do not think that there is a personal relation between Schroeder and Weiss – their relation is biasness and is based upon the fact that Schroeder need the fucking retards of Weiss-level to create noise about his tonearms.

This is how they operate and this is who apparently they are. This is the reason why I discard the Schroeder tonearms juts from the fact that Mr. Schroeder is associated with Jonathan Weiss and looking at the “type” of the people who report “for” and “against” the Schroeder arms I see not unexpected discrepancy.

The only valuable foe myself history lesson I took after Jonathan Weiss visit was Jonathan’s quote. It was where we were sitting in his listening rooms and I was making one of few very fruitless attempts to explain to him why his speaker to sound in the why they are.  Jonathan was listening but I saw that he did not understand what I was saying to him. I asked him and he discerned what I was talking about. He replied: “People out there might be very surprised to learn that I have absolutely no clue about audio and have very little understanding how the things work”. This was actually his quote and it is not taking out of context. Listening what he was saying about audio, listening about his interests in music and sound reproduction it was very self-evident that he is very accidental and very primitive participant of audio. If Mr. Schroeder feels that this level of people are a proper re-presentation of his views then anathema to Mr. Schroeder and he can stick his arms in own ass.

oxric wrote:

If someone wants to discuss the hype that accompanies some products and the point where it ceases to be legitimate marketing practice and becomes a purposeful and reprehensible attempt at misrepresenting one's products and deceiving the customer, please start another thread. The subject of the Shroder tonearm clearly will never be productively scrutinised on this site, so leave it be, I would suggest, and do not use one lame pretext after another to restart it.

tuga wrote:

It's amazing how so many intelligent people are unable refrain their emotions towards certain objects (and industry players in general, like manufacturers and reviewers), in the very "loving" attitude that prevents them from approaching and discussing the tool rationally. But what puzzles me the most is why many of these hifi/camera/watch/car/gear "infatuated" people invest so much in defending "their" brand and so little in learning about the objects and putting them to judicious and creative use.

I think it has absolutely nothing to do with emotional involvement but it rather comes from sense of action. A person who knows what he or she does perfectly welcomes critiques and looks forward to use collaborate with critiques. Any creative person would love to see the result of his/her efforts seriously analyzed and seriously assessed. The seriousness of analyses is the key and what is done properly it is very valuable for anybody. In contrary, the people who are idiots and who have no sense of action or idea of what they do, they do not understand the critique’s objective and the analyses’ motives. In case of Jonathan Weiss and the majority of the similar to him empty-headed marketing idiots there is no slightest understanding what and why they do the things and what they are trying to accomplish. All that those people have is just repeating somebody else’s phases without even understanding what they are saying. This is why when they exposed to any besides slaverush ass-kissing they god scared as they need to spend 10 month of internet browsing to learn what the hell they were told. I am not kidding - this is how this work with people who are clueless.

BTW, this is not only in audio, this how the things works everywhere. With some of my former clients where I was in position to interview and to higher developers I never torched them a barrage of technically different questions. I usually asked a “loaded” question with a conditional (this is the key) answer, was given a single answer and informed the candidate that the answer was incorrect. Then I observed the reaction. Among all people the only people who truly knew what they know/do were able to rise protest defending own answer. What is always important to me was not the rightness of the answer but the LEVEL at which a candidate was able to defend his/her view and the depth of own horizons into which s/he able to dig defending own position. I am very proud by the fact the any single person I even hired was phenomenal, in many case better then myself.

Romy the Cat wrote:

The only valuable foe myself history lesson I took after Jonathan Weiss visit was Jonathan’s quote. It was where we were sitting in his listening rooms and I was making one of few very fruitless attempts to explain to him why his speaker to sound in the why they are.  Jonathan was listening but I saw that he did not understand what I was saying to him. I asked him and he discerned what I was talking about. He replied: “People out there might be very surprised to learn that I have absolutely no clue about audio and have very little understanding how the things work”. This was actually his quote and it is not taking out of context. Listening what he was saying about audio, listening about his interests in music and sound reproduction it was very self-evident that he is very accidental and very primitive participant of audio. If Mr. Schroeder feels that this level of people are a proper re-presentation of his views then anathema to Mr. Schroeder and he can stick his arms in own ass. Romy the Cat

Romy the Cat wrote:

The only valuable foe myself history lesson I took after Jonathan Weiss visit was Jonathan’s quote. ...He replied: “People out there might be very surprised to learn that I have absolutely no clue about audio and have very little understanding how the things work”.