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   Home » Analog Playback» Tell me about more about Ortofone SPU Sound. (55 posts, 3 pages)
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07-03-2005 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
skushino
Seattle, WA
Posts 93
Joined on 07-07-2004

Post #: 41
Post ID: 1139
Reply to: 828
Re: This should help

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Brian (or someone else who knows...)-

I just obtained an SPU mono today, believing it was the 25 micrometer stylus version when I purchased.  In fact, it is the 65 um version.  Is the 65 ONLY suitable for 78 playback, or is this thing usable on my 33.3 rpm LPs?  Naturally, I'm pretty disappointed, since I specifically asked if it was a 25, and I have been waiting to listen to it for a while.

Thank you,
Scott
07-04-2005 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Brian Clark
Ongar, UK
Posts 78
Joined on 10-02-2004

Post #: 42
Post ID: 1140
Reply to: 1139
Oh dear...

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Hello Scott, since the microgroove specification states groove width as 2.6 mil and 65 um is also 2.6 mil you will see that the stylus will only ride the top of the groove and not enter it.
So it's not so much danger of damaging your LPs but of simply not being able to play them.

If for some reason you cannot get satisfaction from the vendor you could perhaps fork out for a retip from Expert Stylus, asking for a 0.7mil (stereo-compatible) stylus to increase the versatility of the cartridge.

Brian.

07-06-2005 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
skushino
Seattle, WA
Posts 93
Joined on 07-07-2004

Post #: 43
Post ID: 1150
Reply to: 1140
Re: Oh dear...

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Thank you Brian - you confirmed what I feared. 

Caveat emptor.  The seller is the former Van denHul repair guy in Germany -  Detlev Brod.  He offered a new SPU mono, at a price too good to be true.  I specified the GM25, and when I contacted him to inform him of the error, he told me that it doesn't matter - they are both monos!!!!!

since these are conical styli, is there any downside to retipping with a "non-Ortofon" stylus.  Assuming the retipping is done properly?  Does supension, compliance, output, or something else change?

scott

07-06-2005 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Brian Clark
Ongar, UK
Posts 78
Joined on 10-02-2004

Post #: 44
Post ID: 1151
Reply to: 1150
Conical retipping

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 skushino wrote:
Thank you Brian - you confirmed what I feared.Caveat emptor. The seller is the former Van denHul repair guy in Germany - Detlev Brod. He offered a new SPU mono, at a price too good to be true. I specified the GM25, and when I contacted him to inform him of the error, he told me that it doesn't matter - they are both monos!!!!!


The bastard!

Since these are conical styli, is there any downside to retipping with a "non-Ortofon" stylus.Assuming the retipping is done properly? Does supension, compliance, output, or something else change?


There should be no downside at all if you use somebody like the chap at Expert Stylus, UK (who sells SPUs at good price, almost as cheap as sourcing from Japan I've recently learned) or Andreoli in Switzerland.

Brian.
07-06-2005 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
skushino
Seattle, WA
Posts 93
Joined on 07-07-2004

Post #: 45
Post ID: 1152
Reply to: 1151
Thank you
Brian- Thanks for the tip (pardon the pun).  I really appreciate it!  I'll have to exercise some patience before listening in mono....
01-06-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
tokyo john
Narashino, Japan
Posts 36
Joined on 01-31-2006

Post #: 46
Post ID: 3444
Reply to: 946
ZYX Mono wish answered. But is this company for real?

 Brian Clark wrote:

Perhaps Zyx will come out with a mono cart one day soon since they are now fashionable.

Brian.

Sorry to be responding to an old post but ZYX has just released a mono cart which costs less than 400 dollars in Japan.
I found out when I was recently lectured on how all stereo MCs are flawed in channel balance because ZYX has got the patents on the remedy. They all lack “real stereo” which leads to compromised stereo imaging and S/N ratio.

Now, Romy has taught us to think about what is missing or wrong with the sound first before we upgrade, and I think that is very good advice. I am therefore rather skeptical and am in no rush to dump my Ikeda and Koetsu.

But, I was told that this phenomenon is very easily verifiable by playing left and right speakers separately and noticing big imbalance for non-ZYX carts.

And (confession time) I usually listen to music at very low volumes (headphones if I need loud music), so maybe I have merely failed to notice "a serious channel imbalance problem"?
01-06-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Brian Clark
Ongar, UK
Posts 78
Joined on 10-02-2004

Post #: 47
Post ID: 3445
Reply to: 3444
Monogamy
That sounds a decent price, less than my (Japan-sourced) SPU Mono.
However, SPU's the gal for me and I reckon we're married for life.

I listen at civilised levels too John - tho' neighbours have just left for 3 months in Kenya........

Brian.
07-29-2007 Post mapped to one branch of Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,967
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 48
Post ID: 4831
Reply to: 324
Good summarizing file about SPU cartridges' data.
http://www.goodsoundclub.com/PDF/Ortofon_SPU.pdf


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
06-03-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,967
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 49
Post ID: 7520
Reply to: 824
The Ortofon SPU Mono wiring diagram.
Do any of you, the  SPU Mono users, know how the SPU MONO coils wired internally? Is it a stereo cartridge strapped mono or it is a single coil cartridge with two channels running in parallel from the same coil? Is anyhow even seen anything describing how the SPU Mono done internally. It is not just a trivia question, I have reasons to ask.

Rgs, the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
06-03-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Brian Clark
Ongar, UK
Posts 78
Joined on 10-02-2004

Post #: 50
Post ID: 7521
Reply to: 7520
SPU Mono, fact & conjecture
Per Winfeld confirmed to me that the coil former assembly is rotated 45% compared to the regular SPU such that only lateral motion is sensed. Unfortunately I did not think to ask him how the coil/coils was/were wound. Since the quoted DCR is significantly higher than for the SPU GM - 100ohms vs 6 ohms - I can only speculate that (a) there are more turns on the the former and (b) there are two coils are connected in series and the two outputs are taken in parallel.

My SPU Mono is currently with Expert Stylus for re-tipping and I have just rung them but unfortunately Mr Hodgson Snr, who had a long working relationship with Winfeld until the latter's retirement, was not in. Hopefully I should be able to establish the facts with him tomorrow.


Brian.
06-03-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,967
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 51
Post ID: 7522
Reply to: 7521
The Mono cartridges ground loop syndrome
 Brian Clark wrote:
Per Winfeld confirmed to me that the coil former assembly is rotated 45% compared to the regular SPU such that only lateral motion is sensed. Unfortunately I did not think to ask him how the coil/coils was/were wound. Since the quoted DCR is significantly higher than for the SPU GM - 100ohms vs 6 ohms - I can only speculate that (a) there are more turns on the the former and (b) there are two coils are connected in series and the two outputs are taken in parallel.

My SPU Mono is currently with Expert Stylus for re-tipping and I have just rung them but unfortunately Mr Hodgson Snr, who had a long working relationship with Winfeld until the latter's retirement, was not in. Hopefully I should be able to establish the facts with him tomorrow.

Brian.
Yes, Brian,

I understand about the SPU construction in term of vertical motion absence, thanks,  but my interest was about electrical construction. SPU is by nature are Stereo Pickups and your speculation that they use two coils are connected in series with parallel out sounds like pleasure. What I observe confirm this speculation. Thos types of the cartridges are inclined to ground loops. I just finished my new phonostage with different grounding schema and it deals way better with the mono cartridges ground loop syndrome. It is still not completely defeats it as I feel it might not defeatable. In my old configuration I used a dedicated mono phonostage where it was no problem but with the new phonocorrector I would like to use stereo and mono needles in the same way – I am not sure that it is possible. Both right and left primaries of my transformer have referent to ground and with mono cartridges with stereo parallel leads they ALSO connected on the cartridge side – here is where the loop take place. Each individual mono lead – right or left are dead silent but as soon the second channels is connect to primary I got the loop. It is not too strong but it is there. I think I need to put a switch that would disconnect the right and left primary in case the Mono SPU is used. I ‘m still thinking about a more elegant solution….

Rgs, The caT


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
06-03-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Brian Clark
Ongar, UK
Posts 78
Joined on 10-02-2004

Post #: 52
Post ID: 7523
Reply to: 7522
Shorting the answer
My stereo corrector (834P with air-vane caps) has a shorting switch across the two channels at the input. I suggest you incorporate the same.
With it out of circuit I did indeed get that hum you refer to with the SPU Mono. Switching to short eliminated it.


What form has your new corrector taken?


Brian.
06-03-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,967
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 53
Post ID: 7524
Reply to: 7523
Less hostile way to do the thing?

 Brian Clark wrote:
My stereo corrector (834P with air-vane caps) has a shorting switch across the two channels at the input. I suggest you incorporate the same.
With it out of circuit I did indeed get that hum you refer to with the SPU Mono. Switching to short eliminated it.

I see, it is exactly what I thought. So, you short the “hot” between two channels at the input? It is already shorted on the cartridge side but you shorting it locally (on the corrector side) kill the loop across the cable. The same effect might be archived if we drive signal from SPU via one cable and then split it on the phonostage side via a switch or having a switch on outside of the corrector feeding right and left cable. It looks like your solution is less painful… Oh, well, not I need a switch and to drill a hole… I will need to learn to disengage the mono switch. I wonder if other options are available… for instance to shunt the RCAs on the cable that feed signal from SPU. Then it will be still bridge locally and the loop will be not 120cm but a few millimeters.


 Brian Clark wrote:
What form has your new corrector taken?

Something similar to what you have, mine is combined with ET2 transformer.

http://www.goodsoundclub.com/LatestPosts.aspx?ThreadID=5856

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
06-04-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,967
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 54
Post ID: 7535
Reply to: 7522
The Mono cartridges ground loop syndrome: resolved

 Romy the Cat wrote:
I think I need to put a switch that would disconnect the right and left primary in case the Mono SPU is used. I ‘m still thinking about a more elegant solution….

Well, it is resoled and it is resoled remarkably simple and effective. Now both stereo and mono cartridges with max out gain of my playback have noise of a CD player. Furthermore the geometry of the cables became to be irrelevant for ground loops. A magic solution? You bet, at least in my case.

I spoke today with Dima and he noted that what I am complaining about should not take please. As one of the possible solution he proposed to decouple the grounding of the transformer primary from ground with a pair of small 50R-100R resistor. I did exactly that: I removed the direct short and I put instead 100R resistor on each channel from ET2’s primary to ground.  It works like a champ. Dima, spent a long time explain to me why it will be immaterial for stereo and work one in mono… and it works!!!

Meow!


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
06-05-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Brian Clark
Ongar, UK
Posts 78
Joined on 10-02-2004

Post #: 55
Post ID: 7539
Reply to: 7535
Earthy matters
Excellent! I don't use step-ups and I always tie signal earth to chassis earth through a 10 ohm resistor at input.


Brian.
Page 3 of 3 (55 items) Select Pages:  « 1 2 3
   Target    Threads for related reading   Most recent post in related threads   Forum  Replies   Views   Started 
  »  New  SPUnisation of Macondo: how to catch own testicals...  Who? (shades of the old "musical" vs. "a...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     1  28848  02-01-2007
  »  New  Buying a last cartridge...  Lucky you...  Analog Playback Forum     80  728819  09-05-2008
  »  New  The Softer Side of a Hard-Tracing Cartridge..  [how] to get it right from the start......  Analog Playback Forum     12  100724  05-24-2009
  »  New  The mono cartridges paradox...  More info on Pierre Clement...  Analog Playback Forum     11  83737  11-29-2010
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