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  »  New  The “new” ways for initial records cleaning...  The “new” ways for initial records cleaning....  Analog Playback Forum     0  10166  07-05-2009
06-24-2004 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Wellfed
Posts 3
Joined on 06-23-2004

Post #: 1
Post ID: 72
Reply to: 72
Commercial Air Blower Ionizer

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Romy,

You mention using a commercial air blower ionizer as an accessory in your system.  Do this serve any audio purpose?

Michael

P.S.  I like the look of your site.
06-24-2004 Post mapped to one branch of Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,560
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 2
Post ID: 74
Reply to: 72
Re: Commercial Air Blower Ionizer

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Michael,

yes, certainly it does. You see, we all know how much fun to fight with static. The static exists not only on the records or sleeves but also on the TT and everywhere else, no mated how good it all grounded. The typical antistatic tools, like Zerostat, work fine but they have some essential misery: you have to garb them and to use them explicitly. (Not to mention the idiotic red color of the Zerostats that I really really hate to have around of my room:-)

A few years ago I worked with a client that manufactured infrared spectroscopy tools. Within one instrument that they did for electronic industry they had a powerful ionizer that blew highly ionizer air over the testing surface quite effectively removing any static. I looked at the similar machines and discover that there are tones of them out there.

There are two ways to produce ionization: like the Zerostat does - to have a small reductive particle (that will die in a few years) or to have an eternal power source and produce the ions by discharging a huge voltage potential. All commercial ionizer use the second approach. BTW, they have performance of dozens of the Zerostats.

Being a frugal Jew I decided did not spend $150-200 for a new unit and I got my i-blower for $18 on eBay. I attached it on the wall above the TT and made it to blow air to the entire top of my rack where the TT sits. A few minutes of running it when my TT’s platter is string up is quite enough to keep the spinning area free from air dust.

Rgs,
Romy


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
06-29-2004 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Wellfed
Posts 3
Joined on 06-23-2004

Post #: 3
Post ID: 75
Reply to: 74
Re: Commercial Air Blower Ionizer
Thanks Romy, makes sense to me, I'm going to have to give it a try.
12-20-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
N-set
Gdansk, Poland
Posts 456
Joined on 01-07-2006

Post #: 4
Post ID: 15250
Reply to: 74
Ion blowers in EU?
fiogf49gjkf0d
Please help an idiot. I've been trying to find a neat benchtop ion
blower, but lab grade ones (Simco etc) here cost 300-400-500Eu...
Do EU colegaues  know some good&cheap ion blowers?
I've found this in US:

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-ION-5802S-Alpha-Static-Ionizing-Blower-Fan-Assy-PS-/130466926813?pt=BI_Control_Systems_PLCs&hash=item1e606f50dd

but it seems big (of a size of a A4 paper) and shipping to EU costs $50+

Thanks & sorry for spamming
N-set



Cheers,
Jarek
02-19-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
N-set
Gdansk, Poland
Posts 456
Joined on 01-07-2006

Post #: 5
Post ID: 15587
Reply to: 15250
For those in EU
fiogf49gjkf0d
FYI, here is a guy selling a simple blower:

http://cgi.ebay.de/KOMPAKTER-IONIZATOR-IONIZING-BLOWER-ION-6421a-24V-TOP-/310296748580?pt=Motoren_Getriebe&hash=item483f20a224

The one I've got was like new  and it works quite well for the purpose.

The blower which I mentioned in the previous post is not the best solution IMHO as
it uses alpha-particle sources, not corona discharge. Hence it ionizes constantly until
the source decays, which is about a year according to the datasheets. Then the source
has to be replaced. Hope it helps.

Cheers,
jk

(I have no connection with the seller, he actually has quite some negative feedbacks).



Cheers,
Jarek
02-20-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
ArmAlex
Iran
Posts 82
Joined on 02-15-2009

Post #: 6
Post ID: 15592
Reply to: 15587
Demagnetizer
fiogf49gjkf0d
Tough very expensive I also use Acoustic Revive vinyl demagnetizer with great effect.Armen
02-20-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Mabutu
Posts 2
Joined on 12-04-2010

Post #: 7
Post ID: 15593
Reply to: 15592
Ionisers can help
fiogf49gjkf0d
Hello Armen
If im not mistaken , that AR product is designed to negate any magnetic field from ferrite particles(?impurities/additives) in Vinyl
AS far as im aware it doesnt remove static charges 
AS we all know, static is mainly a problem in winter time when the air is dry . Ironically much of what i thought was noise from static turned out to be noise from garbage modern pressings :-) . My ionizer is Omron from Japan . They do work because when u lower the needle to the record (after cleaning it and hence causing static ), you can here the hum through the speakers, and after a few seconds with the ioniser that noise goes. Sadly it does nothing for transformer hum :-)
http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/1066/img0255eh.jpg
02-20-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
N-set
Gdansk, Poland
Posts 456
Joined on 01-07-2006

Post #: 8
Post ID: 15595
Reply to: 15593
Ionizers and cartridges
fiogf49gjkf0d
One potential danger with ionizers is that they produce ozone, which deteriorates
rubber. So I would be carefull with blowing ionized air onto the cartridge directly.





Cheers,
Jarek
02-21-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
ArmAlex
Iran
Posts 82
Joined on 02-15-2009

Post #: 9
Post ID: 15596
Reply to: 15593
Demag
fiogf49gjkf0d
Hi Mabutu, I was referring to sound improvement by ionizers and suggesting demagnetizer as n additional improving machine. But that said I get rid of static by using demagnetizer as well.Armen
02-21-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
N-set
Gdansk, Poland
Posts 456
Joined on 01-07-2006

Post #: 10
Post ID: 15597
Reply to: 15596
Disc flatteners
fiogf49gjkf0d
It's hard to believe there is anything magnetic in vinyl, especialy
compared to a huge rotating metall platter on which it usually rests..
But I've been looking at disc flattenetrs. Has anyone used them?
Any comments?

CHeers,
jk



Cheers,
Jarek
03-14-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Mabutu
Posts 2
Joined on 12-04-2010

Post #: 11
Post ID: 15774
Reply to: 15597
Disc flatteners
fiogf49gjkf0d
youd be amazed at the garbage that can make it into modern vinyl, especially recycled Vinyl. Disc flatteners can work , Furutech has one at nose bleed prices as does Air Tight http://www.axissaudio.com/special/DFO1U.htm  . The furutech website lists reviews . I use a peripheral ring as so many 180g re-issues came to me warped I grew tired watching my cartridge do the roller coaster. 
03-14-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Nilau
Copenhagen, Denmark
Posts 1
Joined on 01-08-2008

Post #: 12
Post ID: 15775
Reply to: 15774
Pressing plants should pay us...
fiogf49gjkf0d
 Mabutu wrote:
youd be amazed at the garbage that can make it into modern vinyl, especially recycled Vinyl. Disc flatteners can work , Furutech has one at nose bleed prices as does Air Tight http://www.axissaudio.com/special/DFO1U.htm  . The furutech website lists reviews . I use a peripheral ring as so many 180g re-issues came to me warped I grew tired watching my cartridge do the roller coaster. 


The pressing plants are responsible for the crap pressings on 180/200g vinyl...
We ought to bill them for various "gadgets" needed to play their inferior products!

Maximum 0,5% of my "old" records (3000) are warped etc. but minimum 90% of my "new" special-quality (!) records are, in reality, unplayable...

Regards
Niels L.
03-15-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
N-set
Gdansk, Poland
Posts 456
Joined on 01-07-2006

Post #: 13
Post ID: 15777
Reply to: 15775
Kill them?
fiogf49gjkf0d
I have a Clearaudio Trackability Testrecord. Solid slab of vinyl, looks and feels great.
My cart does a wonderfull rollecoster! Kill them?



Cheers,
Jarek
10-14-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
mem916
San Diego, CA
Posts 52
Joined on 10-14-2011

Post #: 14
Post ID: 17139
Reply to: 74
Ionizers
fiogf49gjkf0d

I just purchased a techni-stat ionizer.  I've noticed these things in the lab where I work for years and it just finally dawned on me to try one.  I couldn't talk myself into the $500 retail but I found used on eBay for $50.  Here's the techni-stat site:

http://www.techni-tool.com/static-products/TT/TechniToolIonizers.html 

the little blue one is the one I got 758ST0610

In another thread I saw you installed a compressor to blow the dust off of your equipment.  Botron makes a nice ionizing blow gun if you have an air source.  I almost got one but the price is pretty high so I will use the Techni-stat for ionizing and T off of my turntable's compressor for dust removal.

http://www.botron.com/ionizer-blow-gun/#Specifications

PS Botron also makes bench-top ionizers.

Mark


10-15-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,560
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 15
Post ID: 17142
Reply to: 17139
Room-size ionizers…
fiogf49gjkf0d
I do not use the ionizers for my LP setup anymore. I find that it is very inconsistent as sometime it helps against dust and sometime it does not. What however, I did noted that if you use a powerful ionizer that can ionize the enter room then it looks like it impacts favoritebly sound, not to mention the pleasure of being in the room. I am not actively do look forward to by a large room-size ionizer. I juts do not know year which on.

The Cat
 
 


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
10-15-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
mem916
San Diego, CA
Posts 52
Joined on 10-14-2011

Post #: 16
Post ID: 17143
Reply to: 17142
Ionizers
fiogf49gjkf0d
I haven't received mine yet but I will post my results after I try it out.  I don't really intend to use it for dust removal, but simply to remove the static from the record prior to playing it.  I guess that would probably keep it from attracting more dust.  I will try the air gun to blow dust off too.  Mostly I try to play records that have been cleaned recently (with my trusty old VPI) but I find that even with good sleeves and sealing them up in plastic outer sleeves they still get dust on them.


Mark
10-15-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
N-set
Gdansk, Poland
Posts 456
Joined on 01-07-2006

Post #: 17
Post ID: 17148
Reply to: 17142
Ion balance
fiogf49gjkf0d
 Romy the Cat wrote:
I do not use the ionizers for my LP setup anymore. I find that it is very inconsistent as sometime it helps against dust and sometime it does not. What however, I did noted that if you use a powerful ionizer that can ionize the enter room then it looks like it impacts favoritebly sound, not to mention the pleasure of being in the room. I am not actively do look forward to by a large room-size ionizer. I juts do not know year which on.

The Cat
 
 


One of the important factors in ionizrs is the ion balance between + and -.
Better designs have very good balance, within few volts
and a balance idicator. If, for some reasons, the balance fails, then instead of being discharged,
a record is being charged even more.

Some time ago I saw
on epay a big industrial slot ionizer for $60...




Cheers,
Jarek
10-15-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
mem916
San Diego, CA
Posts 52
Joined on 10-14-2011

Post #: 18
Post ID: 17151
Reply to: 17148
That make sense
fiogf49gjkf0d

Yeah that is definitely something to watch out for.  The one I bought has 2 LED's one for "+" and one for "-".  I suspect those are to indicate ion balance is within spec.  The people at my company that check for ESD on lab benches are very very obsessive about it so I think any lab grade de-ionizer is going to have some built in check for something as blatant as an imbalance.  It would potentially ruin a lot of components if one of these things failed without any indication.
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  »  New  The “new” ways for initial records cleaning...  The “new” ways for initial records cleaning....  Analog Playback Forum     0  10166  07-05-2009
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