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03-03-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
T3GGG
Posts 9
Joined on 02-06-2011

Post #: 1
Post ID: 15695
Reply to: 15695
Dedicated Music Room Build
fiogf49gjkf0d
Hi Romy and others

I am in the initial stage of planning a new home, which will have a dedicated music room. I noticed Romy in another thread you were impressed with the rough stone walling. This looks like a great way to disperse reflections.

What I would like some help with is colaberating ideas for a great room for a (soon to be built) horn setup. The hard part is the room must be aesthetically and architectually pleasing.

The speakers will be something like a TAD et703 or Fostex T500aMK2 for HF, then TAD 4001 in a Tractrix or LeCleach' 60cm horn then a 1metre horn with either Fane, B&C 8", or maybe TAD 1201. The horns will be built of layers of plywood and finished on a DIY lathe.
Due to room layout and the fact there will be a first floor above there will be no room for big bass horns in the roof, but i may look at utilising a bulkhead or the first metre or so of room for the 30-200hz region.

Initially I am thinking of a room around 6m wide, 9 metre long(giving 1 metre up for bass horns) and 3.3m ceiling.

The side walls would be what we call random sandstone, and the ceiling two layers of 16mm drywall on Resilmounts, to decouple the ceiling.
Floor will have to be thick carpet, as much as I dont like carpet. I will run dedicated power to the room.

I know I will need to tune the room at a later date once everything is installed but I need to find a balance between visually pleasing, practicallity and sounding good.

Would this be a good start to a music room, what else do I need to look at?
03-04-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,249
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 2
Post ID: 15697
Reply to: 15695
Dedicated Room or Integrated Room?
fiogf49gjkf0d

T3GGG,

I am sorry I do not clearly get you. Are you asking about your speakers or about room?  If you are talking about room, which the subject of your posts suggests then will it be a dedicated room or integrated room where your playback will be and what some living will take place. The reason I ask because you call your knew room as “great room”. You are look like from Australia but in US we have a fixed definition for “great room”.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_room

So, in the vocabulary that I accustom a “Dedicated Music Room” and “Great Room” are not the same.

I do feel that Dedicated Music Room and Integrated Living Rooms with high-end playback (Great Rooms) do require drastically different approaches to design. I can collaborate the subjects of Integrated Rooms, as it is something that I have been observing and thinking for years, not to mention something that I have recently built. I however am not a very good adviser about Dedicated listening Rooms. They are for sure are wonderful hi-fi playground but I never had any interest to have such a room.

Rgs, Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
03-04-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
T3GGG
Posts 9
Joined on 02-06-2011

Post #: 3
Post ID: 15698
Reply to: 15697
Its about the room
fiogf49gjkf0d
Yes, I'm Australian.

Sorry for the unclear post. I never knew about the American "great room", but I do now.

The room is to be a dedicated music room, If other members of the family wish to use it thats fine but the main prioriy of the room is a dedicated music room.

I feel the horns will be too intimidating in a family environment in the main living area, so they will get their own room.
03-04-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,249
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 4
Post ID: 15699
Reply to: 15698
Planning, planning and one more to time planning.
fiogf49gjkf0d
If it is dedicated music room then it is great but offset a lot idea that I have in my mind for integrated room.  I have made a number of comments why I do not like the idea of “dedicated music rooms”, which does not make me to blind to recognize the great advantages that dedicated rooms offer. But since you have made a decision to have a dedicated room then it shall not be the subject of your interest.

If you are talking about a dedicated room with 30Hz bass horn then strategic location of your bass horns in respect to the room shall be your main guiding principle.  You need to do a LAOT of plans drawing and a lot of idea testing before you finalize your intention. You might look “Midbass Horns and Real Estate” thread that I have linked to this thread; it has a lot of interesting ideas including my model of a “perfect room” from a position of room/horns relation.

If you have a chance then go for none parallel walls with as much as possible architectural features.  The cathedral ceiling in my view is much better then flat ceiling; a flat wall is not a s preferable as a walls with cavities and indentation. Carpets, dedicated power and many other things are not truly important at this point as you need to decide strategically what kind room you will have, how it will related to the rest of the house (do not under estimate it).

I am a bit puzzled that you mention the visually pleasing aspect of your future room. I might be wrong but in my estimation the whole concept of dedicated room make the visually pleasing aspect irrelevant. The idea of dedicated room target only sonic performance objectives, not normal living objectives, if you have a 15 feet commercial metal  lathe in your bedroom then It is fine and you decorate your lathe and make the metal shaving and cooling oil do not bother you to do your normal bedroom activities. If you have a dedicated lathe room then the installation of your lathe and facilitation the services the lathe need become your main priority and you do not care how your room looks like.

So, I think you need to decide the death of the definition of “dedicated” for yourself and then begin to draw layouts and sketches.  Feel free to upload it at the site and we will try to corroborate on them. I made literally over a hundred sketches and plans before built my midbass horns in my room, in your case for the whole room you need to do many more. Planning, planning and one more to time planning. You could never over plan your budding projects.  Be specific in your planning, even be anal retentive. Make your successes accidental and your failures planed.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
03-05-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
T3GGG
Posts 9
Joined on 02-06-2011

Post #: 5
Post ID: 15701
Reply to: 15699
Interior walls
fiogf49gjkf0d
The visual element of the brief shoyld be able to be achieved by doing thing nicely, thought out and with good materials.

I am aware of the no parallel walls and this may well be utilised into the design. A simple stud wall, set inside the perimeter wall on a slight angle should achieve this, and add decoupling form the outside areas.
Last night whilst out to see a comic I walked past a commercial building, for aesthetics (and quite possibly to containg structural beams) it had blade "nibs" running vertically up the internal walls, around 220mm out from the wall and 120mm wide, approx every 1500mm. This detail was striking and could help my room I assume. This side wall detail could be amended to add some horizontal elements, possibly for storage.

This is the Aesthetic look I am aiming for, where the design is practical and pleasing to look at.

I have spent many evening reading "midbass horns and realestate", this is partly to blame for my current will to build again:-)

The room will be downstairs, due to the fact there will be a concrete slab there and also upstairs will contain the master bedroom and main living areas, to get the ocean, hills and city views.

The ceiling will have to be flat, but I saw at the local theatre their room treatment is a pattern of different sized pieces of timber, fixed ito a grid pattern with multiple angles. this is both effective and stunning to look at. This is an option for my ceiling.

Having never hear horns, similar to what I plan to build, how much room around them would be required? I need to get an idea so I can look at where to place the bass horn.

Unfortunately the bas horn will not be able to go directly above the main speakers, aatleast not firing down as there will be living areas above. The idea of utilising the last metre of the room for two horns (up against the rear wall) looks neat however I assume the placement of thes channel behind the main horns will lead to time alignment issues.

There are several French designs where they have been built into a raised floor area, this may be better for time alignment but looks annoying and I wouldnt be able to relax with a raised "stage" infront of me. I do like the idea of bilding this in a bulkhead, directly above the main horns and being a new build a structural beam or two could easily be implemented.

I now need to learn a simple sketching program so i can get these ideas down, and share them rather than post long, rather random posts.
03-05-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Jorge
Posts 134
Joined on 10-17-2010

Post #: 6
Post ID: 15702
Reply to: 15701
Flat ceiling
fiogf49gjkf0d
"French designs where they have been built into a raised floor area"

If you have a flat ceiling you can put this LeCleach Idea attached to the ceiling.

You will place some sound absorbers  and/or difussers on the rest of the ceiling anyway: with that you will "loose" the step visually.

The sound will be the same, you will have a flat floor.  The ceiling will need to be high though,  but if you are building from scratch...

03-05-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,249
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 7
Post ID: 15704
Reply to: 15701
Show it.
fiogf49gjkf0d

T3GGG, I think the finishing of walls, ceilings and the rest things shall be less of your concern now. Sine you are not familiar with the horns you plan to build it might be a bit tricky to you to evaluate all pitfalls and opportunities that your given plane might have.  You need to start from the main 4 reference point

1)      Location of speakers

2)      Location of listening spot

3)      Location of equipment

4)      Location of bass horns

After you nail down all of it at your plan then, ONLY then, you might think about other things.

Try to visuals what you are trying to say via some sketching program as you said – it is very difficult to communicate otherwise.  I find that free Google Sketchup

http://sketchup.google.com/

is very useful and even fun to us.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Page 1 of 1 (7 items) Select Pages: 
   Target    Threads for related reading   Most recent post in related threads   Forum  Replies   Views   Started 
  »  New  Midbass Horns and Real Estate...  ALE Loudspeakers....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     246  1140035  07-26-2009
  »  New  A book about Loudspeakers and Rooms?..  Book review...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     5  25245  08-18-2009
  »  New  Romy The Cat's new Listening Room..  Won't be the last time he makes that trip!...  Audio Discussions  Forum     478  1371151  03-28-2010
  »  New  Another problem in my new listening room...  Bass Trap...  Analog Playback Forum     1  11624  08-24-2010
  »  New  Do not over-damped your rooms and particularly…...  Do not over-damped your rooms and particularly…....  Audio For Dummies ™  Forum     0  15159  10-09-2005
  »  New  Barn Conversion - James' Project..  The vintage vs. contemporary compression driver....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     28  187593  02-04-2007
  »  New  About speakers Imbedded Macro-Positioning...  Big room AEZ...  Playback Listening  Forum     15  103082  05-16-2007
  »  New  Building a new music room..  Here is my take for a room that I would like to deal wi...  Playback Listening  Forum     20  80270  10-16-2007
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