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03-04-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 21
Post ID: 3891
Reply to: 3889
The Japa-Brazilian horn upper bass horn
Actually if that horn would not be bending atop, go for another couple feet vertically, consequentially has a smaller throat and of course has a strong back chamber then it would be a very good J-horn (presumably that the walls and joints are not resonating)


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
03-04-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Wojtek
Pinckney (MI), United States
Posts 178
Joined on 09-01-2005

Post #: 22
Post ID: 3892
Reply to: 3891
Finally...
 Romy the Cat wrote:
Actually if that horn would not be bending atop, go for another couple feet vertically, consequentially has a smaller throat and of course has a strong back chamber then it would be a very good J-horn (presumably that the walls and joints are not resonating)

  Then if positioned upside-down with strong triangular back chamber could make a solid stable base for the rest of horns ,also time aligment would be less problematic . I wonder what would be optimal crossover point assuming there is no change in the system and if passsive 6dB filtering would be possible. I have to admit that I did not read trough your metal casting posts ,but from my casting experience (bronze and aluminum ) casts are porous and if tick enough non resonant at all. Good tread ,it reminded me that I have an acces to foundry.
03-04-2007 Post mapped to one branch of Knowledge Tree
jessie.dazzle


Paris, France
Posts 456
Joined on 04-23-2006

Post #: 23
Post ID: 3893
Reply to: 3892
Resonance Damping
Paul,

After looking at some photos of Stock Altec horns, though they appear reasonably stout, I can believe they would still resonate when excited by sound pressure alone, as they are still on the thin side if left as bare metal.

See them here :
http://www.lansingheritage.org/images/altec/catalogs/1978-pro/page12.jpg

I would guess these horns (the cast ones) are aluminum : Aluminum and softer metals will have a duller ring, but they will still ring if the proportion/ratio favors audible resonating.

As you suggest, these horns could be damped by putting their surface in contact with a gelatinous coating... Achieving the same effect as when you hold a musicians triangle by your fingers and not by the string.

What is really happening here is sort of the opposite of pushing the resonance up in frequency (as is the case when adding more of a stiff material)... Instead, the resonating energy is immediately converted to a tiny amount of heat energy via your malleable finger tips.

I recently discovered an excellent damping material. The French are absolutely robotic about roll-up security window coverings... Which are vigorously retracted at the crack of dawn up into metal cylinders, which resonate like hell... There is a Spanish company that offers a solution in the form of a semi-cured, gooey rubber sheet with an adhesive backing on one side ;  it is intended to be stuck to the insides of the cylinders... This stuff is a bit more than 1/4" thick, and heavy as hell (I carried a roll of 2 square meters home on the subway... exactly like transporting an entire cow in the form of freshly ground beef... pure dead weight. I am certain it would immediately silence even the most ringy horn (or bell). This would be more cost effective than making a horn from a mass of solid metal substantial enough to achieve the same effect.

Along these same lines, some of the large multi-cell horns from Vitavox/Philips were hallow fabrications designed to be filled with a damping material... Usually either sand, or mix of wax and tar.

As for doping/damping speaker membranes... In that case you are not only converting the tiny resonances of the speaker membrane to heat, but you are also adding considerable mass to the moving assembly.... Thats all mass that must be accelerated, stopped, and accelerated again... Think of an internal combustion piston engine ; good ones have light-weight reciprocating parts so they don't rip themselves to pieces at higher piston speeds (titanium connecting rods, light-weight pistons, etc). Back to speakers : From a pure physics point of view, the lightest, stiffest moving mass possible should be the goal. However, it is not so clear cut as this ; Paper for example can be beat for stiffness/lightness, but it would seem only at the expense of tone. In the case of a well conceived driver, I can't see that doping would result in anything other than an attenuation of detail. If it seems to result in an improvement, I would be suspicious of the design of the driver.

jd*


How to short-circuit evolution: Enshrine mediocrity.
03-04-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,570
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 24
Post ID: 3897
Reply to: 3893
The part of the horn, itself

FWIW, I've done the cone doping myself, and my first reaction to doping paper cones is suspicion.  Why does it "need" this, and how/why will it really "help"?  But I injected this example only to set it apart from the [Altec] horn doping, relative mass versus X, as I think this still relates to the idea/questions that initiated this thread.

What still remains unclear to me is how to predict/control what I hear as a more-or-less "self-induced" "ringing" in horns that appear to my eyes alike to the bronze example in the picture.  I have also seen/heard chrome-plated horns similar to the bronze example, and they were terrifying.  I don't "see" this in Romy's wide-throated, stumpy, band-limited wooden horns because these are pretty new to me and so do not "ring my bell", as it were, and they also "make sense" to me based on my own experience.  Why do I "see" that the bronze horn will "ring", and/or what am I missing with respect to curves vs. FR vs. throat vs. length in this case that somehow makes this particular bronze "wide-range" horn free of the ringing my experience "tells" me I would hear?  I don't expect a primer in horn design, just assurances that I'm off base would be fine, and I'll do my own homework from there.

Best regards,
Paul S

03-05-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
jessie.dazzle


Paris, France
Posts 456
Joined on 04-23-2006

Post #: 25
Post ID: 3901
Reply to: 3897
Ah its nice here in Brazil...

Paul,

Well it would be silly for me to insist that I'm absolutely correct here, as I too am only basing my analysis only on what I see, and what experience I have been able to amass (some profession-related, a little in horn making, and quite a bit in casting bronze sculptures).

Looking closely at the photos, I would estimate the thinnest part of the Brazilian MF horns to be about 5/8 of an inch thick (at the mouth). By comparison, all Altec MF horns I have been able to find in photos appear to be no more than 3/16 inch thick; what's more, the thickness appears to be fairly constant all the way back to the small end. By contrast, look at the massive block around and under the throat of the Brazilian horns.

Never the less, as unlikely as it would seem to me, it is not impossible that your prediction turns out to be correct...

Because despite what I see as a significant difference in surface to mass ratio, I could be over looking something else which would still cause the Brazilian horns to ring, and which could have been equally present in your Altec horns, and caused them to ring.

Only one sure way to find out...

With regard to "horn doping"... that is an interesting way of seeing it. I've been making horns from steel and natrual fiber-reinforced, hard modeling plaster... they are very heavy and thick enough that they do not ring or resonate, so there is no need to add anything to the outside. I am however currently experimenting with different resins, in which to suspend various small particles, creating a textured and somewhat supple layer on the inside... The horns already sound good in bare plaster, but I want to know what effect various treatments to the inside might have.

By the way... While not wanting to suggest you replicate these Brazilian masterpieces, I can confrim that you've got the perfect amps to dip your toes back into horns....

jd*




How to short-circuit evolution: Enshrine mediocrity.
03-05-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 26
Post ID: 3905
Reply to: 3861
“These Brazilian masterpieces”….

As usually I tend to see a generalization and patters. The very same is the case of that Brazilian installation with those Japanese hors. However, I would like to take it even further then just the very questionable design decisions in that upperbass horn. What I would like to point out that the educational values of the “questionable design decisions” in this given case were completely devaluated by the owner of the system and the owner’s reference points. Let me to explain, however, before the explanations I need to make another remark in order do not be attacked by the never-sleeping fools who case about the ethnics-of-others more then about own ethnic.

It always puzzled me how fools recognize a constrictive criticism about somebody playback or somebody reference points as a personal attack on somebody.  I have written about is many times and always suggested that a person’s hyper-sensitivity to audio critique as a clear indicator of audio-Moronity. I do not want to go over it here, so read the thread:

http://www.GoodSoundClub.com/TreeItem.aspx?PostID=2546

Returning back to the explanations.

Well, I do not think thatBrazilian guy relay knows what is doing on with his horn and I completely discard his comments bout the sound of his installation.. From my point of view the direction he goes is absolutely faulty (I intentionally did no name him he started some kind of audio company). What this guy does, and the direction from which he approaches speakers is absolutely opposite (from my point of view) to the one that brings success in Sound.  The Brazilian guy feel that sound should be shaped by after-fact conditioning and I religiously against this approach.

So, the mistakes that were made in this installation are purely the responsibly of its Japanese designer but why the owner of this system can not realize that his installation underperforms (and I’m saying without listening the system)? Because the audio methods that Brazilian guy uses as his “tools” and his coordinate systems are very restricted in context of Respect to Sound. His coordinate system only deals with the Algorithmically Reflections of Sound instead the Sound itself.

Yes, 20 years ago the Yamaha DX7 was perfectly capable to imitate the sound of whole symphonic orchestra, so what? The quality of that imitation was very good only in context of digital syntezators progress but for any peoples who are familiar with the nature of real Sound it was not serious. So, how a person who does not recognize the notion of driver-centricity in acoustic systems can be a tool for people to lean how his J-horn might sound?  How valuable would be a position of  person who essentially uses sound of drivers and horns with no more respect then a micro-voltage generated inside of that Yamaha DX7 keyboard?

Sure it is very said that a person who spent a lot of money and efforts for this J-horns can’t contribute to the mass of composite knowledge about hors generally. But what make him different from most of others audio-yahoos? Sure, people would look at the pictures of the 8-bit driven horns with out of phase transducers above and feel that that was how horns should be. Nothing could be further from truth and the blindness (or with of blindness) of the peoples similar to the Brazilian guy make the global knowledge about horns so primitive.

As Michael Corleone said: “It's not personal. . . It's strictly business"…

Rgs,
Romy the caT


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
03-06-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Merlin
Cheam, United Kingdom
Posts 50
Joined on 03-03-2007

Post #: 27
Post ID: 3907
Reply to: 3905
Constructive?
Regarding constructive criticism, is there any chance of you explaining why you feel the installation is mortally compromised Romy? In order to be constructive, an explanation is required otherwise it simply qualifies as childish insults in my book. Looking at a picture of the Macondo, it is possible to see huge areas where the design is most likely horribly compromised but I don't doubt that subjectively they sound delightful. What is the difference here?
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Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 28
Post ID: 3908
Reply to: 3907
Here we go aganin…

 Merlin wrote:
Regarding constructive criticism, is there any chance of you explaining why you feel the installation is mortally compromised Romy? In order to be constructive, an explanation is required otherwise it simply qualifies as childish insults in my book.

Merlin, I was under a strong impression that the “mortal compromise” 9as you call it) in this J-horn were already mentioned with this thread. Do you want me and others to write it for you again juts because you refuse to spend more efforts then juts scan tittles and looking at the pictures? Sorry, it is not the way how it works…

 Merlin wrote:
Looking at a picture of the Macondo, it is possible to see huge areas where the design is most likely horribly compromised but I don't doubt that subjectively they sound delightful. What is the difference here?

… and why do you feel that Macondo is off the limit for any criticism (in a separate thread)? What, however, I refuse is when people use phrases “see huge areas” and “design is most likely horribly compromised” in the same sentence. If one “see” it then there is no “most likely”.  So, your question “What is the difference?” it is something that you need to answer for yourself.

The caT


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
03-06-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,570
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 29
Post ID: 3911
Reply to: 3901
The sound of bells
Again, I am not insisting that the material of that horn will behave like a bell so much as I am suggesting that bell-like sounds will eminate from this horn.  Is the difference clear?  Some of those Altec horns were textbook examples of both types of bell-like resonance, where the body of the horn itself resonated and certain bell-like artifacts were created/amplified by/in the horns' mouths.  The interesting thing about the horn doping was that it addressed/affected both issues simultaneously, albeit it did precious little for the true bell-type ringing of the horn body (as one might expect).

I suppose that your casting experience ties in with molding experience, which should certainly give you a leg up on how various materials do for horns.  I always thought, being a carpenter by trade, that some of the lighter, "buttery" woods, like bass wood or sugar pine, would make nice horns, striking a nice compromise between energy losses and the self-generated noises I have been talking about.  Of course the shape of the horn is primary, but I cannot and would not discount the effect of the material itself, by any means.  And I would guess that reinforced plaster would work out well enough provided mounting studs and/or coils were imbedded before/while casting.

I am still not finished with my OB project, in fact I have just made some more changes I hope will get even more out of this very interesting design.  I can't tell for sure if I am up against the ML2's limitations yet but based on the little experience I have with horns I expect that I would wind up doing multi-way horns and multi-channel amps at the same time, were I to go back in that direction.  Who knows where all the power goes with those supposedly 102 dB systems?!?  Actually, I suppose we have a pretty good idea...

And that is another thing about "the horn in question": I just can't see/hear using DSP to correct such wide variation between drivers at various frequencies and volumes.  This seems to fly in the face of the dictum that each horn has only a very limited range that it can do without the "horn-factor" itself taking over.  I was and am not sure if it is possible to get truly "wide range" from any horn without gross coloration.  And I would very much like to have a brief listen to that bronze horn to finally confirm or dispell the notion that it is just another "ringer".

Best regards,
Paul S
03-06-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 30
Post ID: 3912
Reply to: 3911
It is not ONLY the sound of the “walls”.
 Paul S wrote:
Some of those Altec horns were textbook examples of both types of bell-like resonance, where the body of the horn itself resonated and certain bell-like artifacts were created/amplified by/in the horns' mouths.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm……..m…mmmm…. I have problems with it.

Sure those Altec “tuna cans” horns, and not “some of them” but all of them, had a LOT of problems and ringing was one of them. But what you begin to use the phrases “bell-like resonance” I wonder if we relays honest/correct in association the cause and results? Yes, the Altec “tuna cans” horns sounded like bells but increasing the crossover frequency for ½-3/4 octave practically get rid of that “bell-like resonance”. Well, from one perspective we slightly trance LF in the horn that reduces the forces that crater the resonance. But from another perspective if we model the identical behavior in a good wooden horn then we might recognize the near similar “bell-like resonance”. So, where the bell-like quality of sound coming from: from the walls of the horn or from the typical mistake of many horns newbie – the overloading a horn with bass?

I do not know the answer but I would propose in do not forget that too much bass in the horn bell crate effect that sonically sound very similar to “bell-like resonance”. Sure, that Japa-Brazilian horn with his 24dB/ocave 500Hz crossover should not have problems in 330Hz horn. However, let do not forget that it is not a real “horn”. This shape itself is a resonating chamber.

It takes a very simple test to see how it works – give this horn to a woman (or a tenor-men) and ask her to count loud from 1 to 20, putting the horn to her lips while she will be in the middle of counting. With a proper horn only volume should be changed but no the timber. The Altec “tuna cans” horns behave honorably even with voices of coloratura mezzo, where will be not dive to the frequency that would arose the walls. You might make asking that woman with horn to use different texts with “harder” consonants if you wish and to dump the “tuna cans horn” with her hands…. You will see eventually that it was not the sound of the “walls” (or mostly no the sound of the “walls”)


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
03-06-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Merlin
Cheam, United Kingdom
Posts 50
Joined on 03-03-2007

Post #: 31
Post ID: 3916
Reply to: 3908
In jest I fear
 Romy the Cat wrote:
<P>Merlin, I was under a strong impression that the “mortal compromise” 9as you call it) in this J-horn were already mentioned with this thread. </P>
The caT


Not so I'm afraid Romy. There has been absolutely no discussion of the subjective affects of any design criteria - merely posturing based on objective knowledge which as we all know, has minimal bearing on subjective results.

As we cannot discuss the subjective results as none of us have heard the speaker in question, it seems a trifle rude to use words such as "ridiculous" and "moronic" when discussing it. Unless of course we accept that it is equally ridiculous and moronic to discuss them in the first place.
03-06-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 32
Post ID: 3918
Reply to: 3916
The eyes wide shut?

  wrote:

...The most obvious problem is with the Bass drivers, which are left to radiate both to the front (via the horns) as well as to the rear... which in this case really means to the front!... The rear of the drivers are aimed upward at a 45° angle where the sound would bounce off the ceiling, then continue at 45° right down to the listening point, arriving I would guess somewhat late to the party. This is not something that can be fixed with a DSP (the output from the rear of the cone being physically linked to what comes off the front of the cone). 

….. Too keep for this horn (it is aluminum-made) without back chamber is so funny that … it become even not funny. The only way to make 60Hz horn so short is open up the throat to full throttle, most likely the full 15” as the size of that 515G driver. If this guy has such a large throat then this horn has very little gain. Let presume that it does +3dB at its lover at its lover knee. Then, (with the back chamber wide opened and positioned where it is) the guy has upperbass MF arrays of two sources, with 3dB between them, reserved polarity and with time discrepancy that could not be addressed at digital domain.

Were the quotes above no enough for anyone who is familiar with the subject? It is funny but you sound very similar to the Tannoys guy who flashed at this site with his juvenile aptitude.  Well, where I do agree with you Merlin, is that “we cannot discuss the … results” as I do not see any effort on your part to do so. A person who wants looks for opportunity, the person who does not want looks for reasons; I am not quite sure what you are looking. Please do not reply if you post will not be related to the Brazilin horn. It was the last time I replied to you when you said nothing about the subject of the thread.

Rgs,
Romy


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
03-06-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Merlin
Cheam, United Kingdom
Posts 50
Joined on 03-03-2007

Post #: 33
Post ID: 3919
Reply to: 3918
Yes sadly inadequate
 Romy the Cat wrote:

Were the quotes above no enough for anyone who is familiar with the subject?

Rgs,
Romy
Absolutely inadequate for desiphering the subjective sound quality yes - all we can deduce is that the system has a maximum sensitivity of 98db/w at best, and quite possibly less. As do many fine loudspeaker systems.

All loudspeaker systems are compromises. Placing the 515G in that manner at least reduces the effect of it's backwave causing a deep phase cancellation from the rear wall reflection. As I say - compromises - none neccessarily more moronic than the next.

I'd like to see the system designer provide some explanation as to his design choices - that would give this thread a sense of direction it sadly lacks at the moment. The only thing I would say is that is it not likely that the positioning of the 515 will have a long term effect on the suspension and result in sag?
03-06-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 34
Post ID: 3920
Reply to: 3919
An objective indication of what is going on there

 Merlin wrote:

Absolutely inadequate for desiphering the subjective sound quality yes - all we can deduce is that the system has a maximum sensitivity of 98db/w at best, and quite possibly less. As do many fine loudspeaker systems.

All loudspeaker systems are compromises. Placing the 515G in that manner at least reduces the effect of it's backwave causing a deep phase cancellation from the rear wall reflection. As I say - compromises - none neccessarily more moronic than the next.

I'd like to see the system designer provide some explanation as to his design choices - that would give this thread a sense of direction it sadly lacks at the moment. The only thing I would say is that is it not likely that the positioning of the 515 will have a long term effect on the suspension and result in sag?

I do not know about the sensitively. The 515G with +4dB might go up 103-104db. The sensitively is not what I would care looking at the picture, thought I hardly see in there 98db. Sure, all loudspeaker systems are compromises but some of them are not compromised but wrong. You have to stop to think in term of phase cancellation but in term of Sound. Connect right and left speakers in opposite phase and position them vertically – you will perfectly mimic what this guy does. The reasons why I am so bold about it because I did it in past during my period when I read all those Allison fantasies about injection of back-phase signals into listening space.

Yes, I agree that if system designer provide some explanation as to his design choices it would be more valuable observation but he is Japanese with all sonic negative consequences (in fact the open-bass-horn would be very typical for the "Japanese Sound").  Also, I insist that is the level at which a playback is being used by the system owner is an indication of the system accomplishment. So, looking at that the Brazilian guy does, his overriding everything with his favorite digital toys, without any senses of any regards to Sound....  to me it is a very objective indication of what is going on there.


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
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drdna
San Francisco, California
Posts 526
Joined on 10-29-2005

Post #: 35
Post ID: 3921
Reply to: 3920
Sound check
It is kind of sad to me to see the arguing going on here.  One reason I like this site is because we can all have our opinions freely.  About the design I will say this:

Any time digital correction is used, this is a bad sign.  There are either serious design flaws or the person's listening objectives are questionable in regards to good sound.  Every time I have heard digital correction so far, I feel like the beautiful redwood forest is being put through a wood chipper and I am being pelted with thousands of tiny toothpicks instead. 

It is important to remember that the Subjective musical result is the goal, but this does not mean to disregard all objective data.  People who focus on objective data forget that when the data do not show a difference, there can always be more we are not measuring, hence the importance of the final step of subjective listening.  BUT, this is not an excuse to ignore objective findings.  When one sees something as ridiculous as the Brazilian horn, you kind of have to assume objectively it is going to be bad-sounding unless proven otherwise.  Is something with so many design flaws that it makes you cringe when you look at it likely to be made by someone who has some special audio secrets up their sleeve?  I kind of have to doubt it.

But I digress.  This website is a place for us to all come together and share our experiences and learn, not to shout at each other ignorantly; if I wanted that I would just go to AA.

Happy listening!
Adrian
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Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,570
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 36
Post ID: 3923
Reply to: 3912
OK: Amplified by the walls
As I re-read my own posts I see where someone might still think I was merely suggesting that the ringing of the horn itself "produced" the ringing sounds I refer to.  And in fact I have heard this.  However I was referring also to the gratuitous bell-like sounds produced by horns shaped +/- like the bronze example, and I would also have to say that, other factors being equal, metal horns produce/sustain a much more aggressive iteration of this "self-generated" ringing than tar horns, in my experience.  It MAY also be that metal horns sustain this ringing over a wider frequency range, or that wide range metal horns are more likely to re-produce this ringing at the octave point.

Anyway, I just looked at that thing again and I am sorry but I can still "hear" it ringing just by looking at it.

I remember once that I happened to be holding a tuning fork (guitar) as I listened to a concerto and being aware that both the horn (A7 500) and the fork were going off at 440 Hz.  Aaaa...   Nuts, right?

Best regards,
Paul S
03-07-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Merlin
Cheam, United Kingdom
Posts 50
Joined on 03-03-2007

Post #: 37
Post ID: 3924
Reply to: 3921
Objectivity
 drdna wrote:
It is important to remember that the Subjective musical result is the goal, but this does not mean to disregard all objective data.  When one sees something as ridiculous as the Brazilian horn, you kind of have to assume objectively it is going to be bad-sounding unless proven otherwise. 
Adrian
Hi Adrian,

I have to say that any system using a DSP unit like DEQX is likely to objectively be light years ahead of 99% of those that don't.

It will probably still sound horrible of course, but that's entirely subjective - let's not get the two mixed up.

Romy, I took the 98db/w from the tweeter which will not be higher sensitivity in that implementation. If the other units are higher than that, then yes it is a moronic system! For what it's worth, I am still struggling to identify the midrange compression drive unit - it appears TAD like but is not deep enough from what I can see. Any ideas?
03-07-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 38
Post ID: 3925
Reply to: 3924
Hmmm... "....then yes it is a moronic system!"

 Merlin wrote:
I took the 98db/w from the tweeter which will not be higher sensitivity in that implementation. If the other units are higher than that, then yes it is a moronic system!

There is nothing moronic in that playback in the subject of tweeter. Ironically you have difficulties to acknowledge the obviously faulty moments in that installation but then you challenge other, perfectly lucid aspects, and because of it you are calling the system “moronic”. This all leads me to wonder if you have any personal experiences or any subject references to the subjects we discuss.  I know that you come from Tannoy forums and perhaps you need some time to break-in is no BS environment. Anyhow, it would be a homework for you: try to educate yourself why in that Brazilian installation the 98db in tweeter (as you say so) would not be a problems.

The caT


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
03-07-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Merlin
Cheam, United Kingdom
Posts 50
Joined on 03-03-2007

Post #: 39
Post ID: 3927
Reply to: 3925
English
Sorry I don't think you understand. Maybe it's because English is no doubt your second language - a shame as it makes intelligent conversation difficult. Try to read through it again.

I have never been on any Tannoy forum - didn't even know they had one.

I've never called this system moronic - you have.
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pe1mmk
Posts 5
Joined on 03-03-2007

Post #: 40
Post ID: 3930
Reply to: 3927
welcome
Well you are very welcome to the Tannoy discussion group. Romy plugged his site at our Tannoy group, so he cannot oppose me plugging our site.

http://www.hilberink.nl/speaker.htm

and:

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/tannoy/


Thanks in advance,

kindest regards,

PE1MMK
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