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02-14-2026 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,839
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 61
Post ID: 29579
Reply to: 29448
Mining Music With The Loudspeakers

Although I have mentioned “mining” Music many times before, I think I have not elaborated on it, despite this practice is the reason for most of the major changes I have worked on my audio system over many years. The Loudspeakers are case and point. They were specifically meant to open up Big Music (Bruckner, in particular) for better, more complete access, and they have in fact facilitated mining plenty of Music in addition to Bruckner. By “mining” I do not mean factory strip or open pit mining, etc., rather I refer to opening my awareness to the Music with the loosely held idea of “opening fully” to the experience. This is for me a case where I am having a rarified Musical experience, since “parts of a live performance are missing”, perforce. As “value” is personal, the practice of mining Music also has an important (arguably all-important) personal aspect concerning both what is realized and what is made of the experience. In the case where hi-fi is a means for transporting and delivering Sound, the audio system used for Music mining must itself be something l can “work with”, as it is only in the junction/interface between the Sound and the listener (in this case, moi) that the audible and therefore discernable Music exists. I hope it can be determined from this that the system is not a direct part of the Sound/Listener interface but the audio system itself must effectively “get out of the way”, along with any “obstructions” or “distractions”, including all the problems with recordings and playback that we have had waved in front of us for so long. My own working version of Jacques Derrida’s “Play of Differences” keeps the parts of something (anything) distinct from “something else”, and in the best cases this means subtle differences between parts are available in addition to profound differences, apropos. One might say the differences here come from “good dynamics”, since they do in audio terms.  But this definition is stilted in the sense that we are not listening to Music if we are hearing dynamics, per se. One might include pitch, tone, timbre, texture, on and on. If these audiophile touchstones cannot be expressed in terms of Music as assayed by the Listener, then they may actually interfere with Music appreciation, by degrees or in total.  Anyone might get off on the wrong foot and eff up their own Music playback with any hi-fi component or components that might be named. In my own case, speaking about The Loudspeakers, they ”can do Bruckner” for me, using my sources and amps, and I am now regularly mining Bruckner performances I have heard many times. The original hi-fi strategy was to get a wide range of Musical Sounds and “values” such that the sound field conveys the Music to me without limitations or a signature that obscure(s) “The Message conveyed by The Music”.  The rote process might be called “Music in Sound”, and the final test of the system is (broadly speaking) the variety of Music the system delivers.>>

>

Paul S>>

02-15-2026 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,433
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 62
Post ID: 29581
Reply to: 29579
I do not know how to reply
 Paul S wrote:

Although I have mentioned “mining” Music many times before, I think I have not elaborated on it, despite this practice is the reason for most of the major changes I have worked on my audio system over many years. The Loudspeakers are case and point. They were specifically meant to open up Big Music (Bruckner, in particular) for better, more complete access, and they have in fact facilitated mining plenty of Music in addition to Bruckner. By “mining” I do not mean factory strip or open pit mining, etc., rather I refer to opening my awareness to the Music with the loosely held idea of “opening fully” to the experience. This is for me a case where I am having a rarified Musical experience, since “parts of a live performance are missing”, perforce. As “value” is personal, the practice of mining Music also has an important (arguably all-important) personal aspect concerning both what is realized and what is made of the experience. In the case where hi-fi is a means for transporting and delivering Sound, the audio system used for Music mining must itself be something l can “work with”, as it is only in the junction/interface between the Sound and the listener (in this case, moi) that the audible and therefore discernable Music exists. I hope it can be determined from this that the system is not a direct part of the Sound/Listener interface but the audio system itself must effectively “get out of the way”, along with any “obstructions” or “distractions”, including all the problems with recordings and playback that we have had waved in front of us for so long. My own working version of Jacques Derrida’s “Play of Differences” keeps the parts of something (anything) distinct from “something else”, and in the best cases this means subtle differences between parts are available in addition to profound differences, apropos. One might say the differences here come from “good dynamics”, since they do in audio terms.  But this definition is stilted in the sense that we are not listening to Music if we are hearing dynamics, per se. One might include pitch, tone, timbre, texture, on and on. If these audiophile touchstones cannot be expressed in terms of Music as assayed by the Listener, then they may actually interfere with Music appreciation, by degrees or in total.  Anyone might get off on the wrong foot and eff up their own Music playback with any hi-fi component or components that might be named. In my own case, speaking about The Loudspeakers, they ”can do Bruckner” for me, using my sources and amps, and I am now regularly mining Bruckner performances I have heard many times. The original hi-fi strategy was to get a wide range of Musical Sounds and “values” such that the sound field conveys the Music to me without limitations or a signature that obscure(s) “The Message conveyed by The Music”.  The rote process might be called “Music in Sound”, and the final test of the system is (broadly speaking) the variety of Music the system delivers.Paul, I do not know how to respond to your post. Before 2025, I would have taken a very strong and highly supportive position regarding what you said. However, right now I have a completely different understanding of how the interface between music, humans, and machines takes place. Or perhaps it is only the illusion of such an understanding. Still, if truth is anything that gives a person meaning, I am comfortable with all the charades I have invented in my mind.

Why now? I feel that although what you are saying is very accurate, it is not truly applicable to my current understanding of audio. To give you a clue, pay attention to what I am doing. I discarded what was objectively better by every imaginable evaluation system and drifted toward something absolutely inferior — not only from an audiophile perspective, but from every technical perspective with which I am deeply familiar. I do not feel like a victim of some psychological or metaphysical crisis. Rather, I recognize this as a very deliberate and intentional change of objectives, the means to accomplish them, and the integration of the results.

In my current perspective, what you are describing is not a set of questions that require answers, because in my present understanding of how audio works, there are no answers to those questions in the realm of audio as we know it today.

Paul, I do not know how to respond to your post. Before 2025, I would have taken a very strong and highly supportive position regarding what you said. However, right now I have a completely different understanding of how the interface between music, humans, and machines takes place. Or perhaps it is only the illusion of such an understanding. Still, if truth is anything that gives a person meaning, I am comfortable with all the charades I have invented in my mind.

Why now? I feel that although what you are saying is very accurate, it is not truly applicable to my current understanding of audio. To give you a clue, pay attention to what I am doing. I discarded what was objectively better by every imaginable evaluation system and drifted toward something absolutely inferior — not only from an audiophile perspective, but from every technical perspective with which I am deeply familiar. I do not feel like a victim of some psychological or metaphysical crisis. Rather, I recognize this as a very deliberate and intentional change of objectives, the means to accomplish them, and the integration of the results.

In my current perspective, what you are describing is not a set of questions that require answers, because in my present understanding of how audio works, there are no answers to those questions in the realm of audio as we know it today.


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
02-15-2026 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,839
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 63
Post ID: 29583
Reply to: 29581
Where The Dichotomies Are
Romy, there are plenty of reasons why Sisyphus might want to do something else, and developing tolerance of dichotomies might well be accompanied by a departure from normal habits, including audio. Good luck with the things that still hold your interest.

Best regards,
Paul S
02-15-2026 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,433
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 64
Post ID: 29585
Reply to: 29583
It is not denial. It is maturity.
 Paul S wrote:
Good luck with the things that still hold your interest.


Paul, please don’t feel that I am attacking you or responding with aggressive indifference. It isn’t personal. It’s about the subject itself.


In several videos I recorded in the past — though never posted — I openly “fired” myself from audio as it is traditionally understood, in the way you described above. I did not step away because I detested it, but because I no longer saw meaning in it. With all my experience in audio, if you were to ask me how a loudspeaker truly impacts musical communication at the level I care about, I would honestly say that I do not know.


Today I have a spectacular playback system, and I have no idea why it is good. In fact, everything I know technically suggests that it should not be good. Only when I consciously declared my ignorance and decoupled myself from everything I think I know, I feel that certain elements of truth begin to emerge within my horizon.


If you have noticed, I am no longer engaged in traditional audio discussions. Not because I oppose them, but because I have lost my sense of certainty in classical audio methods. I may still feel confident calculating filters or assessing the resonant frequency  of a driver suspension. But at this stage of my life, I cannot honestly say how that resonant frequency relates to my ability — or inability — to experience a particular sensation while listening.


Using classical audiophile methods, tools, and language, I no longer find a reliable bridge between technical description and lived experience, using the current audio language.


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
02-15-2026 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,839
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 65
Post ID: 29586
Reply to: 29585
Back to "Accidental Success"
Some time ago I posted here about "Building on Accidental Success", more or less your notion of serendipity, this coming from simply "adopting what works". "Looking back", I still hope to be able to "look forward"/repeat perceived success through understanding, whether or not that means "repetition". Sure, it's hit-and-miss, but it has "worked so far", given my present state of mind and expectations. Meanwhile, I will never forget the experience of Music on LSD (starting way back when it was still legal...), how "audio-derived" Music was in no way limited by the "sound system". Plenty of experiences like this (not all on acid, etc...) have assuredly "refined" my take on audio practice. By wishing you good luck, I mean, Mozel Tov (nothing sardonic...). One might say I still have one functioning leg on my three-legged stool. I still hope we can develop language for this.

Paul S
02-15-2026 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,433
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 66
Post ID: 29587
Reply to: 29586
Good example.
 Paul S wrote:
Meanwhile, I will never forget the experience of Music on LSD (starting way back when it was still legal...), how "audio-derived" Music was in no way limited by the "sound system". 
This is a perfect illustration of what we are talking about. Let’s pretend that our aberrated perception of music on LSD is our default, normal perception. In that case for any listening, our manipulation of cables elevators, speakers, and everything else becomes almost completely irrelevant to the actual experience to a person who is being high.

The reality is that, for the quality of our experience, manipulation of those elements  irrelevant only not only when a person on LSD and but but for any listener who has civilized listening objectives. I would not say todd is completely irrelevant, but it probably has 90% less meaning than we attribute to it in contemporary audio thinking. At least that is the experience I am observing in myself. However, when I begin to understand it completely different audio methods begin revealing to me. And the first and most important audio method that I adopted is my acknowledgment that everything that I know about audio is not something that I need to pay attention to much.


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
02-15-2026 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,839
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 67
Post ID: 29588
Reply to: 29587
"Methodology"
Hard to say at times when words need "air quotes". Like everything else, we have to learn to navigate with varying signals, weak signals, also gaps and contradictions. Either one wants to repeat something or one does not. "Different audio methods" contains "audio methods". The Will and Creative Imagination are not mutually exclusive. Willingness to slow down often comes with age. "Heightened Experience" also taught me things about Time. Not certain about this, but I think I enjoy Music at least as much now as I ever did, and my own audio practice still serves my own audio ends, including my own personal aesthetics, including Music and Musical performances. I am not at all closed to other means of enjoying Music; but this works... for now.

Paul S
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