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  »  New  A revision of playback with reverberation injection or ..  You're my tired but Yamaha injection might not be a...  Playback Listening  Forum     88  144600  08-03-2021
10-28-2021 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
DorinD


Bucharest, Romania
Posts 4
Joined on 01-20-2020
Post #: 81
Post ID: 26455
Reply to: 26423
I've start using reverberation injection after your favourable results
Dear Sirs,
Following Romy's the Cat Youtube series on reverberation injection, I started gathering info and looking for some equipment to start experimenting. I was lucky enough to get a relatively cheap Yamaha DSP-1 in perfect condition from Germany and also put to good use an old pair of bookshelfs as rear channels. I was thinking that if it sounds good enough I would expand it to 6ch.
It sounded indeed extremely realistic and I want to thank you Romy for the excellent suggestion on introducing reverberant sound field in playback. It indeed creates the illusion that you are in the right location, concert hall, stadium or else. It is one of the best improuvement I senses in the evolution process of my horn system. I thank you also for the feedback on better using 4ch instead of 6ch because I really don't want to extent it further on.
The remote control was essential in the first two weeks of setting the system. Now, because i feel that I got it right, I am thinking of replacing Yamaha with a Lexicon MX400 which would be even superior to a Yamaha DSP-3000 except the lack of remote control (but as I said, this is no longer really necesary). I am using 3 or 4 sound fields definitions and these are also available on Lexicon. Still, I'm not in a hurry to change anything because it sounds so realistic, I have nothing to ask for more.
Hope that my feedback would convince others to give it a try, it's worth it.
Regards,Dorin



It's never too late having a happy childhood.
11-08-2021 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
anthony
Posts 338
Joined on 08-18-2014
Post #: 82
Post ID: 26504
Reply to: 26455
Good feedback
Because the Yamaha units are just not available in Aus and I do not feel paying $250 shipping for something 20yo and probably in need of a recap I ended up going with the MX400.  It is less expensive here, brand-new and while getting used to things I can just run longer cables and twirl the knobs from the comfort of my listening chair before setting it into its permanent position.
11-09-2021 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
DorinD


Bucharest, Romania
Posts 4
Joined on 01-20-2020
Post #: 83
Post ID: 26505
Reply to: 26504
Lexicon MX400
I am curious how good would be MX400 compared to old Yamaha's; please provide us a feedback after you play a couiple of weeks with it even if you don't have a Yamaha to compare with. Thank you.

It's never too late having a happy childhood.
04-18-2025 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
N-set
Warsaw, Poland
Posts 629
Joined on 01-07-2006
Post #: 84
Post ID: 28115
Reply to: 26230
DSp-100 alternatives?
 Romy the Cat wrote:

If you would like to experiment with it do not rush to buy the DSP-100 and there are many others and better Yamaha and not Yamaha units that do the same. If you would like to I will give you a guide over them.  The reason why I chose the DSP-100 manual is because it has nothing else but the latest version of Yamaha’s sound field processing.

I'd be happy to get the guidance. DSP-100 seems rare here. Thank you

Cheers,
Jarek
04-18-2025 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Bill
Kensington, NH
Posts 120
Joined on 03-15-2010
Post #: 85
Post ID: 28116
Reply to: 28115
On ebay
There are several of the dsp 100 units on eBay now for around $50.
04-18-2025 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,322
Joined on 05-28-2004
Post #: 86
Post ID: 28117
Reply to: 28115
Wait for my video.

It is not necessary needs to be DSP 100. There are around a dozen of Yamaha DSP processors good for reverberations. I probably need to record a video about entering a reverberation injection world. If I have a time I will record it later on today




"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
04-18-2025 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,748
Joined on 10-12-2006
Post #: 87
Post ID: 28118
Reply to: 28117
Some RI Clarity?

Romy, perhaps you can address in your video some things that have not yet been discussed directly. You have said that the quality of the RI is irrelevant, despite Bill says the ambient information must come from the recording, and quality is very important. Before you react, I realize that your Yamaha (and similar) RI is not the same as Bill’s ambience, so what I want to know is exactly how they differ. Have you used phono as a source? Do you run a line level signal straight from a phono stage or DAC to your DSP/RI amp? Do you low pass the output? If yes, at what frequency? If the sound quality is irrelevant, do you yet choose one “reverb option” over another for a given recording? Do all recordings benefit from RI? Does RI work with FM?>>

> >

Best regards,>>

Paul S>>
04-18-2025 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
rowuk


Germany
Posts 456
Joined on 07-05-2012
Post #: 88
Post ID: 28119
Reply to: 28118
Yamaha did it right
For the Yamaha dedicated DSP reverb amplifiers, they actually went into various concert halls, had a special 4 microphone geometry capable of determining direction and used an impulse tone (I believe a pistol shot) and measured where the reflections came from and how they faded. This is far different than other schemes that just delay the rear channel or schemes like the Dynaco/Hafler that uses out of phase content from the original signal to generate "space".
There was a white paper on the microphone setup used in 1985 when they measured/programmed into the DSP1 (the acclaimed Frankfurt Alte Oper was one of them and is Hall 1A in the settings). A brief google search was not enough to find it. Here is the users guide however where at least the halls are described.
https://de.yamaha.com/files/download/other_assets/3/313903/DSP-100.pdf

Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.
04-18-2025 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,322
Joined on 05-28-2004
Post #: 89
Post ID: 28120
Reply to: 28119
You're my tired but Yamaha injection might not be a final solution
I did not record the video of this different reverberation ideas, probably will do this weekend. DSP 100 was fine, was supposed to dozen other units, before they reach the very end of the line which was DSP 3000. Look up a lot of amplifiers which had reverberation processor and just rare amplifiers, very convenient to use. Those units nowadays cost nothing. If you go for more contemporary receivers then they have all reverberation field factoroed in. Amplifiers are typically quite bad but you do not want to have a lot from reverberation channels. There were many non Yamaha unit switch to the same. And of course serious contemporary Aura 3d processors which two slightly slightly different reverberation injection, in the way better and in the way worse. I would say Aura 3d it would be probably the best choice, I will explain it in video. But if you want a cheap and fast previews and you can take any old Yamaha DSP processors and try it.

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
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  »  New  A revision of playback with reverberation injection or ..  You're my tired but Yamaha injection might not be a...  Playback Listening  Forum     88  144600  08-03-2021
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