01-25-2025 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree Romy the Cat Boston, MA Posts 10,259 Joined on 05-28-2004 Post #: 1 Post ID: 27923 Reply to: 27923 A tale of two DACs I have right now converted interesting listening. I have two CD players, with identical transport, identical tracking mechanisms, identical output stage but different DACs insight. One vintage delta-signa and another more contemporary Burr Brown. I very intentionally did not go to the naming of the brand and models.  There is a huge difference between them, I would say the difference is huge. Is this difference can clearly identified by all imaginable audio properties from perspective of absolute sounds. One of the converters is absolutely Superior than another in all imaginable dimensions. However the inferior converter, despite completely dismal performance in the realm of absolute sounds .. in fact sound order of magnitude more musical and more palatable to my ears. This is so ridiculous the tie invited tomorrow another listener in my room that I want to confirm the ridiculness of my observation. I know, for many people out there turm musical it is kind of washy colloquialism when people explain ever since they do not want to take responsibility to name properly. Not me. I know exactly what I am hearing and I think is that after long listening and after long thinking about it I was able to detect what in the sound of those two digital to analog converters serve my perception as "musical". That is go along with all constants each that I have about more or less unified theory of audio reproduction. Ironically it has nothing to do with DACs and digital but purely a property of a complete sound, where one of that converters in compliance with the theory and another does not. I do not own the theory and I do not insist that I know that comple theory. However, the answer to the question why that inferior converter sound better I feel is just another brick in the wall of that unifyed theory of audio reproduction.   Feel free to make your guesses.... "I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche

01-26-2025 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree ArmAlex Iran Posts 108 Joined on 02-15-2009 Post #: 2 Post ID: 27924 Reply to: 27923 BB vs DS From my experience with many different DACs and CD players, I have yet to hear a DS that sounds very nice to me. Of course I'm not saying that every single BB is superior to DS, but in the case of a good implementation I prefer more "organic" sound of no conversions in original file format. What I hear from old DS converters are rather "sticky" sound. To give an example: like how Indian people are pronouncing letter D. sometimes it's pleasant!I know, for many people out there turm musical it is kind of washy colloquialism when people explain ever since they do not want to take responsibility to name properly.That's compeletley true! A vague term to say that "I dont like this sound" without knowing what elements of sound is not good. This is so ridiculous the tie invited tomorrow another listener in my room that I want to confirm the ridiculness of my observation. I wish I could present in the meeting so I could understand your "audio language" better.

01-26-2025 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree Amir Iran Tehran Posts 368 Joined on 02-11-2009 Post #: 3 Post ID: 27925 Reply to: 27923 Minimum parts or time domain response I think simple electronic designs (minimalist design, less parts, more simple circuits, less digital processing) are more musical to my ears even if their sound is not perfect in absolute term. My first guess is the more musical cd player has better time domain response. www.amiraudio.com, www.hifi.ir

01-27-2025 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree Romy the Cat Boston, MA Posts 10,259 Joined on 05-28-2004 Post #: 4 Post ID: 27930 Reply to: 27923 A very important observation Tested my new two DACs. One of them clearly better than another. However, from musical standpoint the difference between them is not important. It's my big important in terms of the sounds but it is absolutely irrelevant in terms of musical interpretation. This was very interesting experiment as sense introduction to AmpX I very much sharpen my thechniques to switch my listening attention back and forth from timbral to harmonic points of view. So, even I admit that one dac is better than other but it has no meaning from harmonic point of view.  I know, many people would not consider it as a significant observation but in reality what I expressed above is huge. I do claims that different audio equipment has differences in harmonic impact but not two Dacs that I have, which clearly have very different Sonic differences.  "I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche

01-27-2025 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree mats Chicago Posts 89 Joined on 09-18-2005 Post #: 5 Post ID: 27931 Reply to: 27930 Translation or source Romy, from what I gather, both dacs are allowing you to practice high end.  That is, they are both allowing you to learn  something new (about yourself). Do you think it is a question of being able to translate the sound into what it is “supposed”  to sound like? The way musicians seem to decode recordings into what they know it sounds like in life. Or is it that both dacs allow you to access the spheres  that the composer heard when he penned the score? I have found that a “natural” sound makes both of these processes easier, but don’t constitute a goal  in and of themselves. / mats

01-28-2025 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree Romy the Cat Boston, MA Posts 10,259 Joined on 05-28-2004 Post #: 6 Post ID: 27932 Reply to: 27931 A very loaded answer... This is a very good question and I wish I know the answer. A common logic would suggest that if one Dac is better than other than it should have better options to propel me, as a listener, to whatever destination I am trying to go. However, it seems that it is not the case. If I correct in my observation, and let not to fool ourselves I might be not correct, then the difference between the DACs in the realm of the "absolute sounds"  would indicate that there are effective absolute sounds and not effective absolute sounds.  If all of it is correct then the conclusion a monumental consequences. It literally suggests that there are sonic differences reach our absolutely irrelevant for listening experience as some how our brain ignores it. It does acknowledges it but those differences do not block purely musical communication.  There is another very interesting twist in all of this. In all cases of my listening I power my speakers with AmpX. It is also possible that somsung that this amplification does my dear responsible for the effect above. I have my local audio guy to whom I gave one of the version off AmpX and after 2 weeks of listening he took all his expensive high-end audio cables and dump them to storage, replacing them with plain vanilla cheap cables. With all of it he does acknowledge the cables have Sonic differences but now he feel that with AmpX so the differences become irrelevant.  In all of it my interest now is not celebrate the liberative quality of the ampX apology. My primary interest, and Dima and I spend some efforts into this direction, to discover what exactly the properties in performance of amplifier that responsible for the effect. The key, is to recognize what those properties and to see if entrenching those characteristics into any other amplifier would be possible any amplifier to act as the ampX. I literally would like to enrich my Milq some of non-sonic characteristics of the AmpX. "I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche