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  »  New  Some Horns propaganda..  Old paper direct-radiation tweeters...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     4  90261  07-04-2004
  »  New  Speakers: a hi-fi disaster...  Good writing, T......  Audio Discussions  Forum     22  204538  01-16-2005
  »  New  The “Dead Points of Live Sound”..  Confused...  Playback Listening  Forum     28  322789  05-14-2005
  »  New  About Wilson Audio Loudspeakers..  Nagra HD?...  Audio Discussions  Forum     53  403087  10-05-2005
  »  New  The IDEAL horn system..  Serious Coax? Where?...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     27  192568  12-11-2005
  »  New  Magico: Robert Harley’s upperbass mouth...  Surprisingly interesting write up by Federated Mike abo...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     35  332333  02-19-2006
  »  New  Adding one more spherical to Macondo...  It is about magnet and SS type....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     92  951291  05-23-2006
  »  New  Dream Hi-Eff Speakers for an “inmate”...  Re: An average audio person has no opportunity......  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     3  56382  07-03-2006
  »  New  Srajan, 6Moons, sex industry and sapphire horns..  Unless the objective is .......  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     4  68687  07-11-2006
  »  New  Tweeter for Vitavox S2. High-sensitively ribbons?..  Correction: Townshend Ribbon and sensitivity....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     64  836223  10-19-2006
  »  New  My subject of envy to audio manufacturers...  It would be fun to have somebody to pay for it…...  Audio Discussions  Forum     2  28345  02-12-2007
  »  New  German Odeon horns...  How would I play with Odeons…the murky water....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     13  160439  04-01-2007
  »  New  An Interview With Dr. Bruce Edgar..  An Interview With Dr. Bruce Edgar...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     0  71834  07-10-2007
  »  New  First Order on Bass channels: Designed for Sound..  Bass from a vented box......  Audio Discussions  Forum     16  135337  07-20-2007
  »  New  Macondo's Axioms: Horn-loaded acoustic systems..  A link to another thread....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     120  669908  07-29-2007
  »  New  Jessie Dazzle Project..  Will this better to be auditable?...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     172  1548806  08-03-2007
  »  New  A DSET is better then an expensive SET..  DIY Stradivarius...  Audio For Dummies ™  Forum     41  387355  09-21-2007
  »  New  Festival “Son & Image” in Montreal..  Well......  Audio Discussions  Forum     17  133090  03-16-2008
  »  New  Explain TAD ET-703 driver to me..  Horns in practice...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     13  126677  10-16-2008
  »  New  Living Voice Loudspeaker..  A Polish Infomercial from Kevin Scott....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     80  680069  08-09-2009
  »  New  Engaging the David Haigner’s ideas..  The degree of disagreement correction...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     7  87613  08-30-2009
  »  New  The European Triode Festival’s horns..  Good luck...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     57  568386  12-13-2007
  »  New  Greek Anima Loudspeakers..  Sealed subs...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     33  254548  11-03-2009
  »  New  A new kid in the block: Sadurni Acoustics..  Axpona 2015...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     21  145848  08-22-2011
09-05-2015 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,103
Joined on 05-28-2004
Post #: 181
Post ID: 21954
Reply to: 21952
If it is true....
fiogf49gjkf0d
Aga, you clearly see a split in the image referred above it means that the midhorns are no single solid horizontal assembly but two separate units that were so unlucky positioned probably for the sake of photogenicism. Jonathan Valin In his write up stated that they equipped with four 16” drivers. If so then they are hardly horns but rather direct radiators as there is very little difference between trout and mouth. The horn loading in this topology happens at very high frequency, my estimation would be ~150Hz and then lower bass just shoved over everything. They usually are very unfortunately sounding decisions, the pro audio folks do it for years and there is no surprised that Cessaro used pop music for own demo and nothing else that LF section would not be good for. I personally very much would prefer they use an honest direct radiators without creating of that elaborate 1 tone feels-like-horn deception. 
 
However, the revelation that they use 2X16” drivers per side comes from Jonathan Valin who is certifiably idiot and he can run his mouth about anything with no punitive liability. The pearl that he dropped right there is his testimony for receiving the “Morons of the Month” award: 
 
“I fully realize that the charm of horns is not for all. Almost like single-driver speakers they get the initial transient and fundamental so right they can shock you with their realistic presence and immediacy, but perhaps because of their incomparable speed they don't always follow up on those super-realistic transients and fundamentals with equally lifelike harmonics.”
 

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
09-05-2015 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
xandcg


Rio de Janeiro, BR.
Posts 218
Joined on 09-07-2014
Post #: 182
Post ID: 21956
Reply to: 21954
I thought...
fiogf49gjkf0d
I thought it was a scaled down version of the Beethoven, Gamma II, Omega I bass horn but those have cleary a taller enclosure then the woofers cannot be positioned on the same fashion.

IIRC the Beethoven use also 4 16" woofers in total, Gamma II 8 and Omega I 12.

I believe this picture is from a Beethoven at production:

http://s206.photobucket.com/user/coopie_photo/media/image1_zpseacacb8e.jpg.html

EDIT: JBL Paragon

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/35/Paragon_section.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-NGFHnJ9xflc/Ul7kKJTz5lI/AAAAAAAAgIg/j04DVGxXFo0/s1600/jbl-p-010.JPG


Think for yourself, do not be sheep.
10-07-2015 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Exlibris
Canada
Posts 5
Joined on 10-06-2015
Post #: 183
Post ID: 22030
Reply to: 21956
New to the site
fiogf49gjkf0d
I'm new to the site and have had an interest in horn speakers since owning my first SET amplifier over 10 years ago.  I've heard about a dozen horn speakers at shows and private demonstrations but have never heard any that I could live with.  I'm currently using Audio Note AN-E/Spe-HE speakers and have had them for about 3 years.  Since I live in an apartment and am not a DIY'er my interest lies mostly with commercial horn speakers.  
10-08-2015 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
xandcg


Rio de Janeiro, BR.
Posts 218
Joined on 09-07-2014
Post #: 184
Post ID: 22032
Reply to: 22030
Some options.
fiogf49gjkf0d
You may want to take a look on: 

Tune Audio Anima:

http://tuneaudio.com/
http://www.goodsoundclub.com/Forums/ShowPost.aspx?PageIndex=1&postID=12129#12129

GIP 9700A System:

http://www.gip-laboratory.com/
http://www.goodsoundclub.com/Forums/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=16210

DC10Audio GOTTENBURG ODIN:

http://www.dc10audio.com
http://www.goodsoundclub.com/Forums/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=21950

Those are for very different budgets and you can also take a look on Cessaro.

http://www.cessaro-horn-acoustics.com

Regards.
Alex.


Think for yourself, do not be sheep.
10-08-2015 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Exlibris
Canada
Posts 5
Joined on 10-06-2015
Post #: 185
Post ID: 22034
Reply to: 22032
Thank you.
fiogf49gjkf0d
Thank you.
10-10-2015 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
xandcg


Rio de Janeiro, BR.
Posts 218
Joined on 09-07-2014
Post #: 186
Post ID: 22047
Reply to: 22034
Blumenhofer Acoustics
fiogf49gjkf0d
@Exlibris

You can also take a look on Blumenhofer:

http://www.blumenhofer-acoustics.com


Think for yourself, do not be sheep.
10-10-2015 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Exlibris
Canada
Posts 5
Joined on 10-06-2015
Post #: 187
Post ID: 22049
Reply to: 22047
Gioia?
fiogf49gjkf0d
Have you heard any of their top speakers like the gioia?
10-10-2015 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
xandcg


Rio de Janeiro, BR.
Posts 218
Joined on 09-07-2014
Post #: 188
Post ID: 22050
Reply to: 22049
No.
fiogf49gjkf0d
No, I wasn't heard they big speakers but ever if I had I would advise you to really do it by yourself than consider opinions of others. Unless, of course, you really know the person and the person taste.

You can contact them directly, they are responsive (I talked with them at once) and they also do custom builds. In the case you are considering, the Wiki one needs a *very* big room.

If you are interested, I think they use field coil drivers from Wolf von Langa.

http://wolfvonlanga.com/

Blumenhofer is located in Germany, somewhere in Baviera IIRC.


Think for yourself, do not be sheep.
10-10-2015 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Exlibris
Canada
Posts 5
Joined on 10-06-2015
Post #: 189
Post ID: 22051
Reply to: 22050
Thanks
fiogf49gjkf0d
I contacted them Friday and may hear from them Monday 
10-14-2015 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Exlibris
Canada
Posts 5
Joined on 10-06-2015
Post #: 190
Post ID: 22072
Reply to: 22051
Others
fiogf49gjkf0d
No word from Blumenhofer yet.
What about the various loudspeakers with conical horns available from Oswald's Mill; has anyone heard these?
02-13-2016 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Corallus
Posts 4
Joined on 12-29-2013
Post #: 191
Post ID: 22490
Reply to: 22072
Viva Audio
fiogf49gjkf0d
I think this is something new... Or not?
http://vivaaudio.com/en/products/master-horn/
http://www.monoandstereo.com/2015/10/viva-audio-master-horn-system-review.html
05-19-2019 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Amir
Iran Tehran
Posts 337
Joined on 02-11-2009
Post #: 192
Post ID: 25435
Reply to: 22490
Cessaro new Loudspeaker
Good news for audiophiles Cessaro new speaker is active and all Components like DAC DSP Pre and Power are in the new cessaro ported DSP loudspeaker.You just need a transport like cheap LG Samsung to play Ultra high end Sound 👇
https://www.cessaro.de/products/c1/

including a DSP crossover and a seperate DAC-pre-amp with 192Khz/24Bit. The full audiosystem will be delivered including cabels, so the only thing required for use is a source (CD-Transport, streaming or analog sources like for example a turntable).
I hope Cessaro add bluetooth and usb support in next version.
What do you think about designer of Cessaro ? Do you think he could make true sound?
05-23-2023 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Amir
Iran Tehran
Posts 337
Joined on 02-11-2009
Post #: 193
Post ID: 27090
Reply to: 25435
Munich High End 2023
For the first time My friend attended munich show 2023 and he listened to all of those systems.He did not like the sound of those systems and even super expensive systems like wilson Benesch Ypsilon were awful .He told me what is happening in this industry ? Why most of expensive audio systems are not good?!
He listened to vintage big WE horns and prefered it to other rooms, it does not mean WE horn was perfect but actually it was better than other rooms.
I asked him about Cessaro room and he told me Cessaro was awful .
My friend has living voice horn system and it is less than 3 years he interested about audio.
It seems the High End Industry art is just increasing price tags.
08-09-2024 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Amir
Iran Tehran
Posts 337
Joined on 02-11-2009
Post #: 194
Post ID: 27463
Reply to: 27090
Cessaro In Munich High End 2024
I listened to Cessaro Speakers in MOC 2024 , day 1 I did not see Cessaro room because it was not in the main Hal, I visited Cessaro room in day 2 and 4.I guess the AC quality was bad in MOC 2024 , in day 1 most systems were not fully warm up and the AC quality was awful.The best day for AC quality was sunday (day 4).
As you know munich show condition is not good so the judgment is not easy.I think the first time I visited the Cessaro room the sound was awful, It was Fucking hard/forward/aggressive sound.Other day the sound was alittle better but it was not good.
I think maybe  I should listen to Cessaro in Cessaro factory or in my home to have better idea about it.
I think top models of Cessaro horns are perfect for dynamics/transient/speed and I am sure Cessaro flagship horn models outperform all other speakers easily in this regard (dynamics) but I have no idea about tone/harmonics. I also have no idea about their bass.I know TAD drivers (Be) are neutral so you may prefer paper drivers (like Vitavox S2) for more musical tone (harmonics) but I believe the Beryllium drivers do not change the harmonics in a complex way and I hope I could get good result from Cessaro horn speakers.
In my experience with TAD Be drivers I think a listener needs more time to get used to (habit) TAD sound so after that the reaction will be more positive to TAD sound. 
I think/guess the key for getting good sound from Cessaro is Amplifier and AC quality.I guess if you find/design a right/match amplifier for Cessaro and if you have good electricity then Cessaro can give you good tone.
TAD Be drivers are so sensitive to AC electricity quality.
I also have talked to David Karmeli and asked him to share his idea about Cessaro top models, David is not fan of Cessaro.
08-09-2024 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,627
Joined on 10-12-2006
Post #: 195
Post ID: 27465
Reply to: 27463
Accentuate The Positive
Amir, Lots of folks agree that it's hard to sort out what one hears at shows. Romy's most recent video lays out many "issues" that the seeker-of-good-Sound has to consider and "deal with", and it becomes almost impossible to consider all the "issues" at shows, or showrooms, for that matter. Of course you might be able to work with given speakers to get the sound you want, but I would think that, with the expense and "hassle" involved here, one would at least want to hear some "promise" from those speakers before adopting them? It might be that you wind up preferring "vintage sound", for any number of reasons. I have really swooned for some "limited output" speakers/amps doing, say, cello. Very nice, makes me weep. If thinking "FR" and "Big Works", however, choose your vintage drivers and topology very carefully, and have your (integrated) LF solution worked out ahead of time.

Best regards,
Paul S
08-10-2024 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Amir
Iran Tehran
Posts 337
Joined on 02-11-2009
Post #: 196
Post ID: 27467
Reply to: 27465
Cessaro Omega 1
Paul, I agree you , when one million dollar speaker is there no one accept the big risk without a good listening experience.I talked to Ralph in munich but it is not easy to say him audiophiles expect better sound for paying one million dollar.
Actually I like those wild monsters for two reason :First , Cessaro big speakers are very large and I like big speakers in the room  Two, I chacked all rooms in munich 2024 and in my audio life since 2000 I never seen a speaker like Cessaro because of getting high level of music energy.If I ignore low-mid level systems then I think even Over 90% of good audio systems (in comparison by Cessaro) do not spread high level of music energy in the room. Music energy is not just better dynamics, I do not know how can I describe it, I was instrument player and I know live un-amplified music has an energy that is not in most audio playbacks. I like this energy so I think if I had extra money I asked Ralph to ship a Cessaro Omega 1 to Iran.
About vintage drivers I do not have enough experience and I am lazy for DIY speaker.
08-10-2024 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Gargoyle
Posts 69
Joined on 02-01-2015
Post #: 197
Post ID: 27468
Reply to: 27467
With regards to the rear view mirror

Consider there was nothing particularly remarkable about vintage drivers at the time, or their power supplies.

Hmmm

If only we had a name for "music energy".

You have enough self inflicted prestige to talk to "Ralph", yet won't tell a Ralph that you expect more from a million dollar speaker?

I don't get it. Maybe he tried to pass you a $900,000 for one million.
There is no fooling you however, because you played that instrument.


08-10-2024 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,627
Joined on 10-12-2006
Post #: 198
Post ID: 27470
Reply to: 27467
Finding Examples
Amir, I did not just inject the vintage idea but responded to your mention/contrast of David Karmeli in the same post with Cessaro. It sounds like you are basically shopping for a turn-key solution without strict criteria. I believe I can think about Music Energy vs. plain old SPL, and I also like "musically responsive" speakers. Surely you can find a starting point for well under a million dollars?

Paul S
08-11-2024 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Amir
Iran Tehran
Posts 337
Joined on 02-11-2009
Post #: 199
Post ID: 27472
Reply to: 27470
Cessaro
 Paul S wrote:
Amir, I did not just inject the vintage idea but responded to your mention/contrast of David Karmeli in the same post with Cessaro. It sounds like you are basically shopping for a turn-key solution without strict criteria. I believe I can think about Music Energy vs. plain old SPL, and I also like "musically responsive" speakers. Surely you can find a starting point for well under a million dollars?

Paul S

Paul, I have no decision to change my audio system, I like my audio system very much and I enjoy it, my main problem is AC quality and I think I will find a solution for better electricity.if I order Cessaro omega 1 then I will ship it to another home. 
I just shared my experience about Cessaro and I am interested to listen to Cessaro in factory showroom. I will do it in my next trip to Germany.
08-11-2024 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Amir
Iran Tehran
Posts 337
Joined on 02-11-2009
Post #: 200
Post ID: 27473
Reply to: 27468
Cessaro
 Gargoyle wrote:

Consider there was nothing particularly remarkable about vintage drivers at the time, or their power supplies.

Hmmm

If only we had a name for "music energy".

You have enough self inflicted prestige to talk to "Ralph", yet won't tell a Ralph that you expect more from a million dollar speaker?

I don't get it. Maybe he tried to pass you a $900,000 for one million.
There is no fooling you however, because you played that instrument.



I am distributor of some audio brands in Iran, if I order Cessaro I will get distributor discount.the subject is not about buying Cessaro or not, it is about Cessaro sound.
Page 10 of 12 (232 items) Select Pages:  « First ... « 8 9 10 11 12 »
   Target    Threads for related reading   Most recent post in related threads   Forum  Replies   Views   Started 
  »  New  Some Horns propaganda..  Old paper direct-radiation tweeters...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     4  90261  07-04-2004
  »  New  Speakers: a hi-fi disaster...  Good writing, T......  Audio Discussions  Forum     22  204538  01-16-2005
  »  New  The “Dead Points of Live Sound”..  Confused...  Playback Listening  Forum     28  322789  05-14-2005
  »  New  About Wilson Audio Loudspeakers..  Nagra HD?...  Audio Discussions  Forum     53  403087  10-05-2005
  »  New  The IDEAL horn system..  Serious Coax? Where?...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     27  192568  12-11-2005
  »  New  Magico: Robert Harley’s upperbass mouth...  Surprisingly interesting write up by Federated Mike abo...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     35  332333  02-19-2006
  »  New  Adding one more spherical to Macondo...  It is about magnet and SS type....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     92  951291  05-23-2006
  »  New  Dream Hi-Eff Speakers for an “inmate”...  Re: An average audio person has no opportunity......  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     3  56382  07-03-2006
  »  New  Srajan, 6Moons, sex industry and sapphire horns..  Unless the objective is .......  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     4  68687  07-11-2006
  »  New  Tweeter for Vitavox S2. High-sensitively ribbons?..  Correction: Townshend Ribbon and sensitivity....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     64  836223  10-19-2006
  »  New  My subject of envy to audio manufacturers...  It would be fun to have somebody to pay for it…...  Audio Discussions  Forum     2  28345  02-12-2007
  »  New  German Odeon horns...  How would I play with Odeons…the murky water....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     13  160439  04-01-2007
  »  New  An Interview With Dr. Bruce Edgar..  An Interview With Dr. Bruce Edgar...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     0  71834  07-10-2007
  »  New  First Order on Bass channels: Designed for Sound..  Bass from a vented box......  Audio Discussions  Forum     16  135337  07-20-2007
  »  New  Macondo's Axioms: Horn-loaded acoustic systems..  A link to another thread....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     120  669908  07-29-2007
  »  New  Jessie Dazzle Project..  Will this better to be auditable?...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     172  1548806  08-03-2007
  »  New  A DSET is better then an expensive SET..  DIY Stradivarius...  Audio For Dummies ™  Forum     41  387355  09-21-2007
  »  New  Festival “Son & Image” in Montreal..  Well......  Audio Discussions  Forum     17  133090  03-16-2008
  »  New  Explain TAD ET-703 driver to me..  Horns in practice...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     13  126677  10-16-2008
  »  New  Living Voice Loudspeaker..  A Polish Infomercial from Kevin Scott....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     80  680069  08-09-2009
  »  New  Engaging the David Haigner’s ideas..  The degree of disagreement correction...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     7  87613  08-30-2009
  »  New  The European Triode Festival’s horns..  Good luck...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     57  568386  12-13-2007
  »  New  Greek Anima Loudspeakers..  Sealed subs...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     33  254548  11-03-2009
  »  New  A new kid in the block: Sadurni Acoustics..  Axpona 2015...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     21  145848  08-22-2011
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