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01-27-2016 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
JOHNR
Posts 24
Joined on 10-12-2015
Post #: 1521
Post ID: 22441
Reply to: 22440
Funny electricity
fiogf49gjkf0d
Paul,
It would be improper for me to write down what I have worked on over almost 40 years in the telcoms business. 
WRT a CV for example, I have in the past written it all down and the reviewers do not believe it.  Eventually, i stopped bothering about it.
.
To give a measure, when I was invited to join LinkedIn, I had 8000 users who wanted to communicate.  Needless to say, I rapidly abandoned that.

My focus over the past 10 years has been to determine where noise comes from on a triode based amplifier.  This is where I developed the practice of diverting such noise sources and to feed them into a radio frequency ground path (RFG) to a dedicated ground.  My 48 volt power source operates with 2 ground paths namely, safety and RFG.  I picked up on this methodology whilst tracking down a current loop on a switching system that had 80 amperes of noise in the grounding system.  The manufacturer disbelieved what I showed them and I had the grounding system changed about whilst in service.  The current fell to 0.3 amps and they were stunned to say the least.

Decided to construct a 300B amp and learned from that.

Transformers,  exotic does not mean much to me.  I use amorphous cores for the OPT and there are two types.  One is a glass type core that is not ferrite and the other is the strip core sometimes called blah de blah for marketing reasons.  Their B/H curves are almost vertical and very very thin.

In the case of smps, you can only work with a ferrite core because the core must not store energy not even for a microsecond.  There really isn't an alternative.  To give you idea of what you face, my B+ circuit uses a pair of mosfets in push pull driving a 100 watt core.  The push and shove pulses on a 450 volt output is arranged to almost overlap such that snubbers are not required, the reverse energy is recovered and the dv/dt comes out at 900 volts plus to minus in 7 nanoseconds.  The clock frequency is nominally 150 kilohertz.

In the case of common mode chokes aka a current compensated choke, there is only ferrite.  If you use an iron core for a filament supply, as people do, it will not respond to high frequency noise because the core is too slow.  I have seen large copper/iron chokes used here and I believe that users 'hear' an improvement because they will add HF noise into the output. 

There are hundreds of ferrite mixes and even if you obtain the tech specs, the vendor does not tell you what the mix actually is so you have to buy them and test yourself.
Ferrite does not work on audio frequencies which is actually a strong benefit.

You mention LNAs, satellite systems.  Many years ago, I project managed a 4/6 gig system so I had to learn all that the hard way.
Getting the noise down on a DAC is a challenge.  Getting the dual 5 volt supply noise down is also a challenge.
Of some interest, I have been co-operating with a builder of the ESS (Sabre dac) DIY system.  The smps drives that rather well.  How and why? It is a lot to with the fact that the shunt regulator operates at 500 Kilohertz.  The supplied regulator uses a bipolar pass transistor that is just not fast enough.

My filament supplies have changed technology a number of times and I went the way of using commercial converters for the input side because the transformers are very small and are hard on the fingers when winding.

Regards
John
01-27-2016 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,656
Joined on 10-12-2006
Post #: 1522
Post ID: 22442
Reply to: 22441
Ping, Bud P
fiogf49gjkf0d
Well, John, I had a feeling it was something like this. Plenty to process. It looks like the only "easy" road for the DIY crowd here at this point would be (isolated) filament supplies using your pre-loaded boards. In the meantime, I seriously doubt that many of the UPS people have so seriously thought any of this through with respect to shunting noise from their own units, including those proffered as "audiophile" units, even though pretty much everything today is "Class D" and/or some variant of SMPS for up and/or down. Clearly, we are not talking apples-to-apples, even if we only include your "secondary" considerations of "clearing the pathways", including (but not limited to) RFG, which is not just a drain but also a noise magnet, like an active ferrite bead with a viable, 1-way outlet. This will take a while to sink in.

Bud, if you're lurking, this seems to vindicate some of your own flat earth suggestions during exchanges about "exotic" cores, and in any case it has to pique your interest. Anyway, I would be interested to hear more of your comments on the "core issues", germane to this thread or posted elsewhere, apropos.


Best regards,
Paul S
01-27-2016 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
TonyB
Toronto
Posts 22
Joined on 04-14-2005
Post #: 1523
Post ID: 22443
Reply to: 22441
For John
fiogf49gjkf0d
John,

Please drop me a line at tbombera (at) gmail (dot) com My previous attempts to contact you failed.

Tony

 JOHNR wrote:
Paul,<br />It would be improper for me to write down what I have worked on over almost 40 years in the telcoms business.  <br />WRT a CV for example, I have in the past written it all down and the reviewers do not believe it.  Eventually, i stopped bothering about it.<br />.<br />To give a measure, when I was invited to join LinkedIn, I had 8000 users who <br />Regards<br />John<br /><br />
01-27-2016 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
clarkjohnsen
Boston, MA, US
Posts 298
Joined on 06-02-2004
Post #: 1524
Post ID: 22444
Reply to: 22442
Ping, Paul S
fiogf49gjkf0d
'Grats for being one of the few I've seen recently to spell "pique" correctly.
01-27-2016 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Bud
upper left crust united snakes
Posts 87
Joined on 07-07-2005
Post #: 1525
Post ID: 22445
Reply to: 22444
A reply from a lurker
fiogf49gjkf0d
First: Good on you John, so few have spent any time on core material properties. I have developed a method for passive self demagnetization in E/I core. Works a charm except that higher perm materials become harder to drive and the driver circuit begins to distort. High voltage lateral Fets appear to mitigate this. Main reason for using E/I core is that except for rise time limits across the FR band the core is done by 500Hz, even in 9mil M3. This means I am free to treat the coupling speed as modified by surface depth and dielectric constants involved in the coil, to tailor it to the core "speed". Works a charm in guitar amps and provides massive amounts of information for audio reproduction.

Second: This electricity quality quandary appears to me to be related to electron population in the power grid. Based upon the theory that AC signal is only involved with electrons when there is a vector change and otherwise ignores them. You can experiment with this in your own systems by taking a 2 foot length of lamp cord, splitting it into two lengths, stripping the insulation back 2 inches on both ends of one piece and making a loop by, connecting both ends together. You have in this a very low impedance wave guide, for information to ring in, that would ordinarily go to ground at the power station until it is pulled back through to form the back half of the wave form. The reason for doing this is to provide a convenient place for electrons to "cloud" and seethe within. The heavy population of electrons in this loop will aid in maintaining the information structures of your audio. Apply it to the ground connection for your amplifier, not the negative of the live power connection. Maintaing the information content from the back half of every waveform blasting through your system is the key to a more "natural" sound. A dearth of electrons on the ground in your power grid will cause your audio to become thin in character, your illusion of 3D space presentation to collapse and a general discomfort in your mind.

Three: Now finish the other loop and try these same loops on your speakers, connected to only the return side or black colored connector. You should get some interesting results. Not necessarily better results, but, any difference, after a few minutes time, does indicate that a bit more sophisticated  investigation would be worth your time. I would then suggest you investigate "Ground Control".
02-08-2016 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
xandcg


Rio de Janeiro, BR.
Posts 218
Joined on 09-07-2014
Post #: 1526
Post ID: 22473
Reply to: 22445
Battery.
fiogf49gjkf0d
For people who are waiting for Tesla PowerWall, an alternative: http://sonnen-batterie.com

Think for yourself, do not be sheep.
04-07-2016 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
scooter
Posts 161
Joined on 07-17-2008
Post #: 1527
Post ID: 22596
Reply to: 22473
Audio power regenerator company looking for engineer in Japan
fiogf49gjkf0d
I saw Kojo Technology is looking for an engineer relating to audio power regeneration:

http://kojo-seiko.co.jp/recruit.html

Run the posting through google translate if you are interest in job and don't understand Japanese. I own some Kojo stuff but don't have any connection to the company...
06-10-2016 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,155
Joined on 05-28-2004
Post #: 1528
Post ID: 22651
Reply to: 2931
Stromtank - a German PP.
fiogf49gjkf0d
Another, this time German product that reportedly designed for audio use: 

http://stromtank.com/ 
 
It looks like under 1KW unit, class D regenerator.

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
06-11-2016 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
xandcg


Rio de Janeiro, BR.
Posts 218
Joined on 09-07-2014
Post #: 1529
Post ID: 22653
Reply to: 22651
Stromtank: production pictures.
fiogf49gjkf0d
Here are some pictures of the Stromtank production:

http://www.monoandstereo.com/2016/06/stromtank-production.html

And here says the creator is the founder of MBL:

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/HIGH_END_2016/Stromtank/

Think for yourself, do not be sheep.
07-14-2016 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
JOHNR
Posts 24
Joined on 10-12-2015
Post #: 1530
Post ID: 22678
Reply to: 22443
Follow up on the core issues on tube SMPS
fiogf49gjkf0d
I did not follow up on the issues relating to improved performance on small smps when used on filament and DAC power supplies.

Here goes:

The first is that the source impedance of this type of supply is very small e.g. less than one ohm. The speed of the output is 500 kilohertz and the energy storage is held in a very small inductor.Because this technology creates noise spikes between five and twelve megahertz, the output requires a number of common mode chokes. Capacitors do not help because of their self inductance.  My circuit uses three cm chokes to absorb this noise and they serve a dual purpose in that these also keep other sources of radio frequency noise out of the load.

Surprisingly, the removal of such noise from a tube filament gives a very large reduction in background noise and gives the impression that the tube is sonically much quieter and faster.


Technically, common mode noise has no real power since it is only a pulse however, it becomes mixed with wanted signals and disrupts the sonics.  The only way to control it is with a ferrite based inductor arranged in series with both legs of the power feed pathway.
The absolute perfect power system would use one choke per power supply to each active device but except for small circuits, this is not practical.

When we come back to the importance of the 500 kHz operating frequency, small polymer capacitors are used to control the residual noise so that we can obtain an almost perfect d.c. supply. These have very limited ESR and ESL which is quite important.

Whilst developing this circuit, I found that any common mode noise fed to a filament will appear on the tube output amplified by a factor of 1 (tube physics).  By using a single supply on the small signal tubes, sonic improvements can be obtained.
This also applies to the 45, 2A3 and 300B power tubes as well.


In the case of a dac using either one supply (ESS series) or dual supplies (1702 series), the sonics show a very large improvement. Background noise is no longer an issue giving much improved silence between notes.
Hope this helps.

WRT smps based B+ supplies, the same rules apply but the circuit is more complicated so I will deal wth that some time in the near future.

In the past, when discussing the use of common mode chokes, it has been stated that one choke kills the bass.  I counted the chokes in my personal system and it comes to 54.   I guess it has something to do with how they are used.

JohnR
08-16-2016 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,155
Joined on 05-28-2004
Post #: 1531
Post ID: 22711
Reply to: 2931
How they do it....
fiogf49gjkf0d
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/power-trip-japanese-audiophiles-go-to-extremes-to-get-pure-energy-2016-08-14


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
08-16-2016 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
xandcg


Rio de Janeiro, BR.
Posts 218
Joined on 09-07-2014
Post #: 1532
Post ID: 22712
Reply to: 22711
May be possible in US too.
fiogf49gjkf0d
I know in US business like recording studios can have exclusive transformers installed by the electricity company, but do not know if it is possible on residential buildings. It still do not warrant you will not have problems from noises coming from neighborhood, but the good is any problems will be sorted out by the electricity company.

I heard about a studio in US whom was a exclusive transformer and still got noise from outside, but that seems to be sorted out by the electricity company using three telemetry trucks. IIRC, and the story was true, the noise come when they use a printer on the next building.

Although, it will not be cheap to have, and certainly  they will charge extra money monthly.

Think for yourself, do not be sheep.
08-21-2016 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
N-set
Gdansk, Poland
Posts 617
Joined on 01-07-2006
Post #: 1533
Post ID: 22732
Reply to: 22230
Reinventing the line
fiogf49gjkf0d
Sorry for posting a bit of kindergarten trivialities but maybe someone without a dedicated line yet will find it motivating.
I've finally connected my dedicated lines which took me ages. The lines are connected right behind the power meter
and have their separate safety breakers. All the grounds are star connected in the distribution box and then with is
a single 16mm2 starnded wire to the houshold ground of my apartment (again right at the power meter). I'm in an apprtment block
so no chance for a dedicated ground.
I also have a 6mm2 solid core available for grounding which will be tested.
My EAR834RtC is connected to one line,
Stax amp to another and TT motor to the ordinary household socket.

The sound impressions
are probably best described by the Romy's picture in the very first post which has started this thread.
In particular: the sound became generally less ear f*cking, most of the artificial edges and hallos are gone, more liquid,
musical lines are much easier followed; headstage is wider and deeper, better separation both stereo and of sounds, e.g. vinyl surface noise does not amalgamate with some passages of music into an unpleasant mixture; better macro dynamics, the feeling is that the system plays louder
string musicians finally sound like they play music and not try to saw their instruments in halves.
Very addictive change actually. LP's pass one after the other Smile

Cheers,
N-set


Cheers,
Jarek
STACORE
08-22-2016 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,155
Joined on 05-28-2004
Post #: 1534
Post ID: 22733
Reply to: 22732
25%-30%
fiogf49gjkf0d
Yep, this is a common reaction. If everything works fine then you have to “lose” your tweeter. Many people with better electricity complain that they have no HF extension anymore not understanding that what they had was not HF extension but HF nose. Well, wait what you put properly working PurePower generator on your dedicated line... My estimation that a dedicated line gives 25-30% of benefits that comes from good electricity.

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
08-22-2016 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
N-set
Gdansk, Poland
Posts 617
Joined on 01-07-2006
Post #: 1535
Post ID: 22734
Reply to: 22733
There is no HF in nature
fiogf49gjkf0d
 Romy the Cat wrote:
Well, wait what you put properly working PurePower generator on your dedicated line... My estimation that a dedicated line gives 25-30% of benefits that comes from good electricity.


This is very encouraging as the effect so far has not been marginal by no means and I totally agree that "there is no HF in nature". In my circumstances HF has been prob the weakest point of the chain (I'm blaming the ss amp) giving me unpleasant artefacts which I call halos (similar to moon halos). While other big improvement - vibration control - has given a better articulation (like if somebody stopped lisping) it obviously could not solve the halos. The line has. Also the presentation of small details is better, not that I hear more details, but they are more reasonably presented, not creating some chimeric amalgamants with surface noise and/or the rest of the musical material.

Cheers,
N-set


Cheers,
Jarek
STACORE
08-22-2016 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,155
Joined on 05-28-2004
Post #: 1536
Post ID: 22735
Reply to: 22734
It is tweeter time.
fiogf49gjkf0d
Well, I do not agree that “there is no HF in nature. The subject of HF in audio is complicated in in many instates when I see a playback installation that is flat to 20dB I feel that this installation was rather a mechanism to malice people. If you sit in symphony hall in your 10-15 row then you have good -20dB at 15kHz but you do not hear complain about HF, even if you factor in the ears non-linearity curves…. Anyhow, if you feel that you get rid some of your HF noise then you can start to work on your tweeter.

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
08-22-2016 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
N-set
Gdansk, Poland
Posts 617
Joined on 01-07-2006
Post #: 1537
Post ID: 22738
Reply to: 22735
No tweeter
fiogf49gjkf0d
 Romy the Cat wrote:
Well, I do not agree that “there is no HF in nature. The subject of HF in audio is complicated in in many instates when I see a playback installation that is flat to 20dB I feel that this installation was rather a mechanism to malice people. If you sit in symphony hall in your 10-15 row then you have good -20dB at 15kHz but you do not hear complain about HF, even if you factor in the ears non-linearity curves…. Anyhow, if you feel that you get rid some of your HF noise then you can start to work on your tweeter.


That's more or less what I meant - we dont have natural sources of 15kHz (save for bats and dolphins) other than in the attack/decay and related sound characteristics. All that high-kHz ability of a system is needed  not to mimic bats or dolphins but to properly reproduce some of the natural sound characteristics: space/air, microlocalization, attack/decay, etc.

I listen on electrostatic headphones so no tweeter to work on.

Cheers,
N-set


Cheers,
Jarek
STACORE
08-22-2016 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,155
Joined on 05-28-2004
Post #: 1538
Post ID: 22740
Reply to: 22738
This is exactly what I disagree.
fiogf49gjkf0d

We do have natural sources well over 15kHz and it has nothing to do with bats and dolphins. I do feel that for sound reproduction we need an upper limit to be reproducible up to let say ~100 kHz. They should be not at 0dB of cause but well into the depth of … noise. A proper 20Kz shall be somewhere at – 10dB, and 100Khz will be way below. Anyhow, what we talk about HF calibration then it is very shadow territory as there is nothing that is properly calibrated in there. The microphones, the amp, line-level electronics and etc. are very distorted and non-linear at 20kZ, so what we “measure” in there only God knows.



"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
08-22-2016 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
N-set
Gdansk, Poland
Posts 617
Joined on 01-07-2006
Post #: 1539
Post ID: 22741
Reply to: 22740
100kHz yes please
fiogf49gjkf0d
I should perhaps give it more thought as I thought that instruments do not go higher than some 5-6kHz in their vibrational modes.
Here are for example beautifull laser holography pictures and spectra of vibrating cymbals Smile  http://www.lutins.co.uk/cymbals.html

What I definitely agree on is 100kHz capability, but probably for different reasons.
Cheers,
N-set


Cheers,
Jarek
STACORE
08-22-2016 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
steverino
Posts 367
Joined on 05-23-2009
Post #: 1540
Post ID: 22742
Reply to: 22741
Theory vs practice
fiogf49gjkf0d
In theory wideband electronics with very gentle HF slopes are optimal. In practice I have never liked them. For the same reason I detest the 6922 tube vs the 12A series tubes or most less well known. As Romy notes, linearity and measurements in this area are difficult and I also feel this super HF region is more susceptible to line and radiated noise. The ribbon tweeter or electrostats are able to fake a natural treble air unlike anything else I've heard. It is a coloration but a pleasant one. But audio systems are just going to sound more closed in than real life. The question is how much that bothers you and what steps you feel necessary to mitigate but not eliminate it.
Page 77 of 96 (1,917 items) Select Pages:  « First ... « 75 76 77 78 79 » ... Last »
   Target    Threads for related reading   Most recent post in related threads   Forum  Replies   Views   Started 
  »  New  What lives in Symmetric Sound?..  The beginning of our journey is ALWAYS symmetrical...  Audio Discussions  Forum     19  175213  05-28-2004
  »  New  Always check power-line polarity...  The Cost of Knowing...  Audio For Dummies ™  Forum     11  112297  07-10-2005
  »  New  RAAL “Water Drop” tweeter for Macondo...  Your comment takes me by surprise...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     77  924584  02-16-2007
  »  New  My feelings about new exciting audio products..  Vacuumstate...  Audio Discussions  Forum     25  264743  04-30-2007
  »  New  Musique Concrete horns..  These are now sold as Kornhent products...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     6  108258  06-12-2007
  »  New  Compression drivers and the “clean signal”...  The NEW “Compression drivers and the clean signal”....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     14  163515  07-12-2007
  »  New  Digi Redux; Drive 1 transport and iDAT-44+ DAC..  Moray James SPDIF!...  Didital Things  Forum     27  230576  09-28-2007
  »  New  Metal domes..  Try the one Lansche is using...  Audio Discussions  Forum     6  78946  11-08-2007
  »  New  The power AC Outlets?..  Where to Pick Up the Gong?...  Audio Discussions  Forum     2  43192  10-31-2008
  »  New  The Avicenna's failure is the great Avicenna success!..  New life for Avicenna...  Audio Discussions  Forum     8  83926  02-03-2009
  »  New  Internet and electricity..  Suboptimal. . ....  Didital Things  Forum     1  29349  01-07-2010
  »  New  Electricity... power strips and ac improvements..  Electricity... power strips and ac improvements...  Audio Discussions  Forum     0  16687  03-30-2010
  »  New  Another example of energy..  Tehran 230v...  Audio Discussions  Forum     1916  9941624  01-29-2011
  »  New  I good spot-light for a turntable?..  Reply...  Analog Playback Forum     15  154661  10-24-2010
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