GoodSoundClub - Romy the Cat's Audio Site

02-26-2016

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Romy the Cat

Boston, MA
Posts 10,184
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #:	41
Post ID:	22524
Reply to:	22522

I think it will be better with time.

When we were looking and negotiating this house it was the last seen from Tarkovsky’s Solaris always in my mind, the one where Chris understands eventually that his father, and his home, and the pond are just “gest” that were inspired by Ocean energy… and he did not care...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jorf-2o5YfU

I think it will be a great home for our family. I also home that it might be interesting for audio. As in my current listening room I will have no auditable neighbors. An integrated listening room will get converted into entertaining listening room. We will poos pool but gain a lake, so it will be the same + many small people around those loudspeakers… No it will be no dog, which is explicitly prohibited by our perpetual agreement. There is another very interesting aspect. The town we are moving is very none-industrial. There is nothing in there, not even gas stations. It might make electricity to be very nice naturally….

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche

02-26-2016

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Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,672
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #:	42
Post ID:	22525
Reply to:	22524

Gaddis House

In Wm. Gaddis' tragi-comedy, "A Frolic of His Own", intervals and cycles of Time are "measured" first by meals, then by the appearance(s) of their pond. I love having a body of water at hand, and a lake or pond will be much less corrosive to hi-fi gear than the ocean,

Paul S

03-01-2016

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Romy the Cat

Boston, MA
Posts 10,184
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #:	44
Post ID:	22527
Reply to:	22524

View vs. Practicality

I have been thinking how to position my playback in my new listening room. It is a cathedral ceiling with chopped top and the room is set in a way that I can do both positioning of playback: along the room center beam and perpendicular to it. That is not so simple question. I do not have any sonic and acoustic considerations for now and I presume that both will work.

If I position Macondo across the room then I would have great benefit that the equipment rock can go between the speakers with multiple benefits of this setting. If I put Macondo channels along the room then they will go on the side of 4 windows I have in the middle with all nice lake view behind. Well, that would put all equipment to a separate location and will it hard to isolate it from kid/s. Adding to the mix the fact the Amy want to put a fireplace in there, to have a large drop in scree and be able to accommodate a large party of people for movie/opera events make the selection not easy…

Romy

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche

03-01-2016

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Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,672
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #:	45
Post ID:	22528
Reply to:	22527

Multi-Tasking

It's nice having a view from the listening room, but I seem to naturally close my eyes a lot when really tuning in, and this is true for me even at the symphony hall. People love to put a fireplace smack in the middle of a view, and the TV above the fireplace, that sort of thing. I've done lots of rooms like this for other people, but I don't get it. I do have a view window behind my speakers now, with equipment also on the "view wall" and on the floor, between the speakers and under the window sill, and I have a large fireplace on a side wall that I pretty much ignore. There would also be a nice view out that way, and beautiful sunset views, except for the giant fireplace. Oh, well, I did not build it. Another factor might be cable runs. It might be useful to plan "the best" option for one thing at a time, then let the subconscious mind "come up with a solution" for the lot. It is very great if you can put the speakers on either axis, but I am not the Swiss Army Knife guy.

Best regards,
Paul S

03-01-2016

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Romy the Cat

Boston, MA
Posts 10,184
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #:	46
Post ID:	22529
Reply to:	22528

Exactly!

Paul S wrote:
It's nice having a view from the listening room, but I seem to naturally close my eyes a lot when really tuning in

That is exactly my point. I love the view but I am not sure that I want to see it while I am listening. I might love it to have as my side view that is why I am biasing to have Macondo to be across the room. That is not definitive feeling however…

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche

03-01-2016

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anthony
Posts 338
Joined on 08-18-2014

Post #:	47
Post ID:	22530
Reply to:	22527

Equipment between speakers...

Romy the Cat wrote:

If I position Macondo across the room then I would have great benefit that the equipment rock can go between the speakers with multiple benefits of this setting.
Romy

Romy, what do you see as the benefits of having your gear between the speakers...because I can see none? The last thing that I would want to look at is all the electronics plus there are the reflection issues of the gear in that location messing up imaging and it means bringing the speakers further into the room. In my experience, for sound quality, by far the best position for the equipment is off to the side (in a bass null) or in another room entirely, so I would be extremely reluctant to have them between my speakers.

Anthony

03-01-2016

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Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,672
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #:	48
Post ID:	22531
Reply to:	22530

Top Gear

Anthony, I can't answer for Romy, but short cables are one (big) advantage of "centered" equipment. As for pulling speakers away from the back (and side) walls, don't most "big sounding" speakers require this, anyway? Sure, a "bass null" for equipment is nice, too, and in a large-ish room there might well be an OK area between the speakers. It's only in the last ~10 years that I've used remote controls (CD and pre-amp), but now that I have them I would also prefer to keep those in play.

Best regards,
Paul S

03-01-2016

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Romy the Cat

Boston, MA
Posts 10,184
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #:	49
Post ID:	22532
Reply to:	22530

I see no problems with "between".

anthony wrote:
Romy, what do you see as the benefits of having your gear between the speakers...because I can see none? The last thing that I would want to look at is all the electronics plus there are the reflection issues of the gear in that location messing up imaging and it means bringing the speakers further into the room. In my experience, for sound quality, by far the best position for the equipment is off to the side (in a bass null) or in another room entirely, so I would be extremely reluctant to have them between my speakers.

Anthony, the rock located in a middle gives a great advantage of shortest and symmetric cables. I do not think there are any reflection issues with equipment in the middle. In fact it is opposite: a pile of equipment make a great diffuser. Yes, the speakers need to be further into the room but not because equipment but because Macondo topology - it must be well extended forward. There is one more reasons: if the equipment is "between" the speakers then the whole audio area might be easily to fence out, that is not last factor in my life now.

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche

03-01-2016

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anthony
Posts 338
Joined on 08-18-2014

Post #:	50
Post ID:	22533
Reply to:	22532

Oh well...

Romy the Cat wrote:

Anthony, the rock located in a middle gives a great advantage of shortest and symmetric cables.

But it is only the interconnects to the amplifiers that need to be longer...no others...speaker cables stay as is...all cables into the preamp stay as is. Longer interconnects is not an issue in any way that I know of...but I would prefer longer interconnects than longer speaker cables.

Romy the Cat wrote:
I do not think there are any reflection issues with equipment in the middle. In fact it is opposite: a pile of equipment make a great diffuser. Yes, the speakers need to be further into the room but not because equipment but because Macondo topology - it must be well extended forward.

Between the speakers we generally want even broad band diffusion for best results and at best a rack will give a little bit of random diffusion in narrow bands. A dedicated wide band diffuser is likely to give better results.

Romy, your rack is large and heavy and shaped like a 'wall' so by putting it between the speakers you are effectively moving the back wall forwards according to what the speakers will 'see' which might cause Macondo to need to be further into the room by an amount equivalent to the width of your rack. This may or not be an issue in your situation depending on the size of your room...it is a problem in my situation.

Romy the Cat wrote:

There is one more reasons: if the equipment is "between" the speakers then the whole audio area might be easily to fence out, that is not last factor in my life now.

Well, yes, that could be a very good reason in your situation. My kids are older, and now quite well trained in regards to the audio stuff, so a little different situation, but I still plan to integrate DSET on the frame of my Macondo with embedded speaker cables and rely on long interconnects from my source gear that is situated elsewhere in the room.

Please note that I am not 'arguing' my point, rather fleshing out the reasons for my suggestions.

03-01-2016

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miab
Canada
Posts 46
Joined on 02-07-2008

Post #:	51
Post ID:	22534
Reply to:	22529

Wall of nature

Romy the Cat wrote:
Paul S wrote:
It's nice having a view from the listening room, but I seem to naturally close my eyes a lot when really tuning in
That is exactly my point. I love the view but I am not sure that I want to see it while I am listening. I might love it to have as my side view that is why I am biasing to have Macondo to be across the room. That is not definitive feeling however…

That wall is just begging for a floor to ceiling window/s to extend the daytime listening room into nature. If you do it smartly you can have large opening windows directly behind speakers which help in rear reflections although they be already minimized with upper horns. In the evening with a dark night you will not see anything outside in even a dimly lit room. I can think of a few recordings that I would save for daytime listening looking upon this nature. When those windows were put in either economy or furniture placement was the deciding factor. A view like that HAS to be seen and when appropriate can be closed with window treatments in the day. Think wall of glass.

03-01-2016

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Jorge
Austin TX
Posts 141
Joined on 10-17-2010

Post #:	52
Post ID:	22535
Reply to:	22534

Big Window

Having a big window in front at night it becomes like a big mirror, some might get self conscious about it! JA The thing about glass is that it eats up bass and reflects highs like crazy, having said that, some of the best rooms I listened to, had big huge windows behind the speakers, you just need to measure and tune.
In a small room it is better to place the rack to the side, IMHO. In a bigger room the center of course offers better cabling options. Speakers should always be as far into the room as possible. But there are so many other things involved in audio that are probably even more important, like time alignment, multiamping, even perfect speaker placement.

03-01-2016

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Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,672
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #:	53
Post ID:	22536
Reply to:	22534

Shades and Night Vision

Funny, but I also have a nice view (lots of lights) at night and, depending on the moon, it can be pretty compelling. Also, "effects" can be created with lighting. Although I often close my eyes when listening, the view definitely makes the room a nice place to be. I would not want a fireplace or a TV in the way of the view. I do not like the "sound of glass" behind speakers, however. I do have Venetian blinds there, but I believe I could do better than what I have. I think wooden blinds would be better, and one might put vertical wooden blinds if there are doors. This sort of blind "works" as a "diffuser" even when it is open enough to see the view. Again, one specific type might work better or worse than another specific type.

Best regards,
Paul S

03-01-2016

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Romy the Cat

Boston, MA
Posts 10,184
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #:	54
Post ID:	22537
Reply to:	22533

...they do image wonderfully...

anthony wrote:
But it is only the interconnects to the amplifiers that need to be longer...no others...speaker cables stay as is...all cables into the preamp stay as is. Longer interconnects is not an issue in any way that I know of...but I would prefer longer interconnects than longer speaker cables.

In my case it is never longer speaker cables as amps stay with speakers, always. I have 4M vintage Dominus that is many thousand dollars and not obtainable anymore. Wish side rock positioning I need to compliment one side with inferior cable.

anthony wrote:
etween the speakers we generally want even broad band diffusion for best results and at best a rack will give a little bit of random diffusion in narrow bands. A dedicated wide band diffuser is likely to give better results.

Romy, your rack is large and heavy and shaped like a 'wall' so by putting it between the speakers you are effectively moving the back wall forwards according to what the speakers will 'see' which might cause Macondo to need to be further into the room by an amount equivalent to the width of your rack.

Possibly but I do not view my equipment as a wall of boxes. They rather a random boxes with great extension from the back wall. I do think that it is great to have infinite wall between the speaker but let face it- it never happens unless you use two mini-monitor on toll stands... and they do image wonderfully....

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche

03-02-2016

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Romy the Cat

Boston, MA
Posts 10,184
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #:	55
Post ID:	22538
Reply to:	22459

Another attic project?

I was wondering: if I lose my midbass and will use for now my bass town to do midbass then how can I introduce lower octave channel of I want to make a room civilized? For instance if I go do 2-4 Aura drivers on transition slope then I will end up with 2 LF sections of the size a large subzero refrigerator each. I do not want to have it in my listening room.

I got an idea today. My Cathedral ceiling it truncated atop and has a profile like on the picture. There is a small attic atop (black on the picture), much smaller then depicted. So, I wonder if I put in there a few Aura driver in infinite baffle configuration. I think the ceiling is 13-14’ high, approximately the same distance I plane to be from the spacers, so it would become time-aligned. I presume that the quality of construction is OK in there and if not then I can put a fat and solid baffle to mound drivers. Did anybody load the heavy woofers into a regular building structure? It does sound as an interesting idea…

The Cat

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche

03-02-2016

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zztop7
Edmonds, WA
Posts 40
Joined on 11-02-2012

Post #:	56
Post ID:	22539
Reply to:	22538

Infinite baffle

I researched infinite baffle Sleep

and was going to do an install at our previous home. We moved just before starting the project. There is very good info on the net. If you want, I can do a deep paper-work search to see if I can locate the info. on the drivers [maybe 18 inch] I settled on. Infinite baffles done properly are great.zz.

03-02-2016

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Jorge
Austin TX
Posts 141
Joined on 10-17-2010

Post #:	57
Post ID:	22540
Reply to:	22538

IB

Sounds Very interesting, If you can change the loose insulation in there for Cellulose, it is supposedly much better sound wise than fiberglass. It would also help to avoid leakage of bass to other parts of the house through the attic, if that is possible. Weight would be a concern of course, as well as time alignment, you would need to move all the horns to dial in the bass since the IB would be fixed.

03-02-2016

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Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,672
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #:	59
Post ID:	22542
Reply to:	22541

Attic Ventilation

Since "mold" has come up, be sure the rafter bays are properly ventilated when you're done. They usually tie to the attic space in cases like this, then the attic space is ventilated. There are ways to do this properly if the attic is "bypassed", and it's a bad idea to ignore it.

Paul S

03-03-2016

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noviygera

Chicago, IL
Posts 177
Joined on 06-12-2009

Post #:	60
Post ID:	22543
Reply to:	22538

Possible

I had a similar setup with an IB subwoofer, 2x18" woofers, behind the listening area -- also time aligned. It's works ok. But it will excite the entire house structure if you play loud -- you can be sure. Everyone will feel it. But that's not the issue. The issue for me was I was able to localize the bass if it's crossed over too high, above 80hz. And at that time I used Edgar 80hz horns.If you use the scan speak towers for midbass down to 60hz, this will be a good solution for bass. I'm still unable to get that quality of bass in my new room and now I'm using 4x1808 aura in the factory PA boxes. I miss it in that respect.Gera

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»	New	Romy The Cat's new Listening Room..	Won't be the last time he makes that trip!...	Audio Discussions Forum	478	2947757	03-28-2010
»	New	Midbass Horns and Real Estate...	Just a youtube video......	Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum	247	2157341	07-26-2009

	Target	Threads for related reading	Most recent post in related threads	Forum	Replies	Views	Started
»	New	Romy The Cat's new Listening Room..	Won't be the last time he makes that trip!...	Audio Discussions Forum	478	2947757	03-28-2010
»	New	Midbass Horns and Real Estate...	Just a youtube video......	Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum	247	2157341	07-26-2009