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12-06-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,664
Joined on 10-12-2006
Post #: 1
Post ID: 21378
Reply to: 21378
Shopping for DSD Converters? Here's One From the Lampizator..
fiogf49gjkf0d
I just stumbled across this, did not read the roll-out report yet, and I am not shopping for digital options, but maybe someone else would be excited about this product from the Lampizator:

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue76/lampizator_dac.htm


Paul S
12-11-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,166
Joined on 05-28-2004
Post #: 2
Post ID: 21390
Reply to: 21378
Too many DACs and too little sense.
fiogf49gjkf0d
I do not know what Game Changer is in context of the guy who wrote it. He is compiling for audio shopper the "short list of products to consider for the next audio component you buy", in the best traditions of industry-estimable but boring and predictable HP. I fell that anything he said has nothing to do with Lampizator DAC, I glanced over the writing and I still have no idea what Lampizator DAC is. I know that the writer is an idiot who use Alan Parsons's albums to educate himself what to buy. There are plenty of them in audio…

The reality is that there are tones of DACs out there, literally each week a new company or a new model pop up. I have a difficult time to understand what they do not to mention to listen them. I did not change my CD DAC for 15 years and I am not looking. It is not that I said that there are no good of better DACs out there but I do think the makers and sellers do not find a way to market what they do, at least to the people like me: their reasoning lack neither intellectual nor expressive perspective and I personally find the news about new DACs available to be very boring.

It is also is very important that the industry and all of these stupid audio writers failed to related the DACs to each other objectively-sonically, topologically and from many other perspectives.
 
Rgs, Romy the Cat

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
12-11-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,664
Joined on 10-12-2006
Post #: 3
Post ID: 21392
Reply to: 21390
The DSD Thing
fiogf49gjkf0d
Truth be told, I realize that "the world is passing me by" while I am still "stuck" in the ancient 16/44/CD thing, and I was sort of hoping to get a rise from more up-to-date people regarding the "DSD capabilities". Naturally, I have not yet read the "review"/rollout blurb I referred to, above...

Paul S
12-17-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
xandcg


Rio de Janeiro, BR.
Posts 218
Joined on 09-07-2014
Post #: 4
Post ID: 21412
Reply to: 21390
R2R DAC
fiogf49gjkf0d
 Romy the Cat wrote:
... I glanced over the writing and I still have no idea what Lampizator DAC is...


Hi,

I don't know if you was being sarcastic on that quote but Lampizator does the DSD conversion in a R2R way, using a power tube instead of a DAC chip.

Cheers!


Think for yourself, do not be sheep.
12-18-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
rowuk


Germany
Posts 454
Joined on 07-05-2012
Post #: 5
Post ID: 21413
Reply to: 21392
Lampizator - Mr. Lukasz Fikus from Poland has a granular approach to his series of DACs
fiogf49gjkf0d
http://www.lampizator.eu/NEWDAC/Lampizator/Welcome_to_LampizatOr.html

He has 7 different "generations" or "levels" of his DAC depending on what one can afford to pay. If you go through the various models, his direction becomes more clear. I heard a Level 4 DAC and was impressed by the lack of things that made me think that I was listening to digital anything and the fun it was just to listen to CD after CD, recording after recording.

Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.
12-18-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,166
Joined on 05-28-2004
Post #: 6
Post ID: 21414
Reply to: 21412
I was not taking about DAC but about the review
fiogf49gjkf0d
 xandcg wrote:
I don't know if you was being sarcastic on that quote but Lampizator does the DSD conversion in a R2R way, using a power tube instead of a DAC chip.
I am not sarcastic and the "review" above does not extend any of my knowledge about the Lampizator DAC. I never used or heard anything by Lampizator, he might do interesting things, thought it is chip-based R2R, not discrete, we would not able to afford it otherwise. My only concern about the all of those DACs is tube output stage. It does server nice the common audiophile frustrations but I never felt too good about line-level tube devises. I never was able to build and never saw/hear any tube-based transparent simple buffer. So, my assumption that tube output stage on DACs would be desirable. 

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
12-18-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,664
Joined on 10-12-2006
Post #: 7
Post ID: 21415
Reply to: 21414
"Tube Buffer"
fiogf49gjkf0d
For better or for worse, I also tend to think of the "tube buffer" as a gimmick. I wonder if one of our readers has an idea, what are the benefits of the tubes used in this case? Why not a discrete version of the op amp, or just a decent modern op amp?


Paul S
12-18-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
rowuk


Germany
Posts 454
Joined on 07-05-2012
Post #: 8
Post ID: 21416
Reply to: 21415
Maybe transparent is not what we are after?
fiogf49gjkf0d
I think that any line level tube stage can be every much of an expressive tool as any other device in the chain. I am also not sure that the biggest difference between digital and analog is the sampling process.
How "transparent" is a cutting lathe or phono cartridge on a tone arm? What about what a head gap on a tape head does to phase and linearity? What about the pilot tone filters in AM radio?
If the installation is content loaded, the tube output stage could be the spice required with certain drives. If you send Fikus an e'mail, he will answer.
When I heard the level 4 we listened to all 9 Beethoven symphonies in one sitting - most with Christopher Hogwood. No fatigue, we just couldn't get enough. That of course is not a test for transparency, but original, historic instruments really get on your nerves when there are "digital" purity issues.
Back to the review, there is so much info at the Lampizator site, that it is inexcusable for a dealer to not offer anything. It just means that they don't even give a mercenary shit.
 Paul S wrote:
For better or for worse, I also tend to think of the "tube buffer" as a gimmick. I wonder if one of our readers has an idea, what are the benefits of the tubes used in this case? Why not a discrete version of the op amp, or just a decent modern op amp?


Paul S


Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.
12-18-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,166
Joined on 05-28-2004
Post #: 9
Post ID: 21417
Reply to: 21416
Perhaps.
fiogf49gjkf0d
 rowuk wrote:
Maybe transparent is not what we are after?

This is a valid point. Generally if we are taking about “author” products then it is very hard to predict anything by looking at the ingredients but rather we need to look at the whole picture. This is the whole point of author tailed products that they have a signature of the creator. Not a lot of product have in audio and it possible that those Lampizator products do.

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
12-19-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
xandcg


Rio de Janeiro, BR.
Posts 218
Joined on 09-07-2014
Post #: 10
Post ID: 21419
Reply to: 21414
No silicon.
fiogf49gjkf0d
Here, the site says no silicon at all at conversion! I don't have one here to comprove but I don't know anyone who owns one claim it is false.

http://www.lampizator.eu/newdac/lampizator/DSD_DAC.html

Cheers!


Think for yourself, do not be sheep.
12-22-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
steverino
Posts 367
Joined on 05-23-2009
Post #: 11
Post ID: 21423
Reply to: 21419
Dacs and transports
fiogf49gjkf0d
I am no expert on digital although I certainly read a lot on DSD and DVD-A back in the day. However, once you use the standard D/A chip as lampizator acknowledges, you are at the point of a tweaker for the rest. It is like a speaker manufacturer who grabs the industry wide standard speaker elements. They have to talk about everything else because they are now locked into a generic approach. I'm not dissing anyone for doing that particularly as digital is beyond the capability of a small company to design and manufacture. The industry though has created a significant problem by downgrading the build quality and to my ears sonics of these new chips. Romy is stuck nervously watching his old CD player hoping it doesn't break down. Certainly the build quality is going down in general for digital. Unfortunately the old chips while built better do have some constraints that are best removed but no one wants to spend the money to make a well designed and well made contemporary chip. Thus trying to select the best of the current output is like trying to find the best pressing of a typical 70s era CBS classical record.

Having broken down and bought a midline Esoteric model a while ago, the difference in sonics seems more due to the transport than the DAC. I heard an Esoteric DAC but while nice enough did not wow me. However the CD player as a whole is better. It does at least reduce digital unpleasantness to the point where I am not bothered by it and can listen to the music more easily. So it is likely the transport which made the difference. I have no idea why a music server which bypasses the transport stage and simply reads a data file (outputted to an external DAC)  should sound significantly worse but they do to my ears. Anyway I have become less interested in DACs and more interested in transports vs reading a music file.
12-22-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
xandcg


Rio de Janeiro, BR.
Posts 218
Joined on 09-07-2014
Post #: 12
Post ID: 21424
Reply to: 21423
PQ Agree.
fiogf49gjkf0d
 steverino wrote:
I am no expert on digital although I certainly read a lot on DSD and DVD-A back in the day. However, once you use the standard D/A chip as lampizator acknowledges, you are at the point of a tweaker for the rest. It is like a speaker manufacturer who grabs the industry wide standard speaker elements. They have to talk about everything else because they are now locked into a generic approach. I'm not dissing anyone for doing that particularly as digital is beyond the capability of a small company to design and manufacture. The industry though has created a significant problem by downgrading the build quality and to my ears sonics of these new chips. Romy is stuck nervously watching his old CD player hoping it doesn't break down. Certainly the build quality is going down in general for digital. Unfortunately the old chips while built better do have some constraints that are best removed but no one wants to spend the money to make a well designed and well made contemporary chip. Thus trying to select the best of the current output is like trying to find the best pressing of a typical 70s era CBS classical record.

Having broken down and bought a midline Esoteric model a while ago, the difference in sonics seems more due to the transport than the DAC. I heard an Esoteric DAC but while nice enough did not wow me. However the CD player as a whole is better. It does at least reduce digital unpleasantness to the point where I am not bothered by it and can listen to the music more easily. So it is likely the transport which made the difference. I have no idea why a music server which bypasses the transport stage and simply reads a data file (outputted to an external DAC)  should sound significantly worse but they do to my ears. Anyway I have become less interested in DACs and more interested in transports vs reading a music file.


I read a interview with Peter Qvortrup (AN UK) a week or two ago (but that was older) were he talk about his theory of why a CD + Good Transport sound better than a audio file from a hard drive (with the same resolution at least). Unfortunately I can't find it now but he say something related with the file being partitioned in the HD but not in the CD.

Cheers!


Think for yourself, do not be sheep.
12-22-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
steverino
Posts 367
Joined on 05-23-2009
Post #: 13
Post ID: 21425
Reply to: 21424
Buffers
fiogf49gjkf0d
I thought the file fragmentation issue was the reason for having buffering memory where the file or at least a significant portion gets pre-loaded into memory. Since that is widespread I don't see why the file fragmentation on the hard drive would create a problem. Anyway computers are exceptionally proficient at reading datafiles; it's sort of what makes them a computer. Reading an optical disc is trickier but even there CD players have all kinds of error correction algorithms. I don't know that anyone has shown bit error differences from competently made CD players. The major difference is jitter I believe. It's true that earlier versions of Windows did weird resampling of audio data but I think that is removed now. Anyway, such data can be fed directly through a soundcard out to a DAC with no computer processing. Reclocking is now increasingly practiced.  If the difference between digital files and transports  isn't jitter related  I have no idea what is going on.
12-23-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,166
Joined on 05-28-2004
Post #: 14
Post ID: 21426
Reply to: 21424
CD + Good Transport vs. audio file
fiogf49gjkf0d
 xandcg wrote:
I read a interview with Peter Qvortrup (AN UK) a week or two ago (but that was older) were he talk about his theory of why a CD + Good Transport sound better than a audio file from a hard drive (with the same resolution at least). Unfortunately I can't find it now but he say something related with the file being partitioned in the HD but not in the CD.
Xandcg. I am pretty much insisting, looking at the conclusions, that whatever theory the Qvortrup had on this given subject is bogus.  I do not know what make him to say it, the fact that he sells CD based components, general ignorance or juts little understanding of this specific subject.  

Rgs, the caT.

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
12-25-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,166
Joined on 05-28-2004
Post #: 15
Post ID: 21427
Reply to: 21378
DSD vs PCM debate
fiogf49gjkf0d
What I find interesting about this Lampizator is that he does not take sides over DSD vs PCM debate. Some folks do not touch the DSD and stay strictly in PCM word. Some go all the way along with DSD, x- DSD or whatever was sold for them annually. Generally the PCM camp future more intelligent people as most of the DSD yahoos with their 5 recordings of a “girl with banjo” are too revolting to take them seriously. It does not say however that properly implemented PCM or properly implemented DSD would not be in a way similar. I do think that somebody like Lampizator would be a good souse to ask this type of the question.

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
02-22-2015 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
xandcg


Rio de Janeiro, BR.
Posts 218
Joined on 09-07-2014
Post #: 16
Post ID: 21560
Reply to: 21427
The Golden Gate.
fiogf49gjkf0d
There are  a new Lampizator model based on Big Seven, The Golden Gate:

http://www.lampizator.eu/Lampizator/GOLDEN_GATE_DAC.html




Think for yourself, do not be sheep.
04-01-2016 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Amir
Iran Tehran
Posts 355
Joined on 02-11-2009
Post #: 17
Post ID: 22588
Reply to: 21560
Headphone DAC
fiogf49gjkf0d
I searched the net for headphone DAC/amp and i found it.
i have no idea about the sound .
what "r2r discrete" mean?




www.amiraudio.com, www.hifi.ir
06-17-2017 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
xandcg


Rio de Janeiro, BR.
Posts 218
Joined on 09-07-2014
Post #: 18
Post ID: 23264
Reply to: 22588
Resistor ladder.
Amir,

R2R Discrete, means it uses the good "old" resistor ladder instead of a DAC chip. There is more info here. But you can find more around the internet.

Cheers.


Think for yourself, do not be sheep.
04-22-2021 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
xandcg


Rio de Janeiro, BR.
Posts 218
Joined on 09-07-2014
Post #: 19
Post ID: 26114
Reply to: 23264
Singaporean R-2R DAC.
Hello,

A Singaporean company came out, apparently since a while, with some perhaps interesting discrete R-2R DACs. The top of the line is the Denafrips Terminator Plus which apparently cost <9000 USD.

There is also a CD Transport called Avatar using `NOS Philips CDM4/19` laser mechanism, but I have no opinion about it.


I don't know anything more about it but I saw some of the usual reviews around.

Cheers.


Think for yourself, do not be sheep.
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