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01-28-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Wojtek
Pinckney (MI), United States
Posts 178
Joined on 09-01-2005

Post #: 141
Post ID: 12788
Reply to: 12786
The same problem here
fiogf49gjkf0d
but I attached a double layer of 3'x5' cement boards (wonder board) under the suspended floor (crawl space) and it seems to help with bass a little.It's a cheap and fairly easy solution ($9 for a board) if you have an acces and helping hand.
Regards, W
01-28-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 142
Post ID: 12789
Reply to: 12788
The suspended floor treatment – some questions.
fiogf49gjkf0d

 Wojtek wrote:
but I attached a double layer of 3'x5' cement boards (wonder board) under the suspended floor (crawl space) and it seems to help with bass a little. It's a cheap and fairly easy solution ($9 for a board) if you have an acces and helping hand.

Wojtek, interesting, can your elaborate on it? You placed under the floor (from the basement) the 3'x5' cement boards right under the speaker? How you were able to do it? Did you floor supporting beams allow you to do it? What is the distance between your cement boards and the floor? Is the floor carpeted? How much dB attention you get at 100Hz at the location of your cement boards?  When you said “seems to help with bass a little” then it is your subjective feeling (that might be due to electricity change) or it is the actual measurable change of amplitude? What the percentage of the whole rooms represent those 3'x5' space?  What LF section your and how you drive it?

It might be an interesting solution, I just need more data.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
01-28-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,570
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 143
Post ID: 12792
Reply to: 12789
Bang for the Buck Approaches
fiogf49gjkf0d
Good call, Wojtek.

Depending on access, the cement boards could probably be 5/8" drywall, for savings on material and easier installation.  Moisure resistant drywall can be used over a dirt crawl space.  The cement board is a PITA to cut around ducts, posts, etc., and it is also more difficult than drywall to screw onto the floor joists, and it is much harder to "tape".  If the floor will support the extra weight, or if the floor is going to be shored up, and the budget allows it, drywall can be doubled, staggering the joints (and using long screws for the second layer!). 

If the underfloor space is not already fully insulated, then do this first.  There is even acoustical insulation available that does work better for sound than normal fiberglass thermal insulation, albeit at a steep increase in cost, and it is hard to find outside of large population centers.  When blocking for the drywall, frame access under the hi-fi equipment, for wiring, etc.  For that matter, be sure to frame for future access to plumbing clean-outs, traps, risers, etc., as well.

Insulation and drywall are very nice, but they are not a substitute for shoring up the floor.  In many cases, this can be a night and day difference.

Best regards,
Paul S
01-28-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Wojtek
Pinckney (MI), United States
Posts 178
Joined on 09-01-2005

Post #: 144
Post ID: 12793
Reply to: 12792
It was fairly simple in my case
fiogf49gjkf0d
I have so call "Michigan basement" which is rised (~4 ft) crawl space. Although the first floor of my small house is semi open floor plan 21'x21' the 10' middle wall dividing and separating the kitchen space makes setting difficult. I have K-horns in the corners of the other (than kitchen) 10' space .Hapily in the crawlspace under the listening audio area there are no ducts, pipes etc. so I just simply screwed the boards using drywall screws to floor beams (over insulation)on the 10'x9' square.(the way you attach ceiling drywall) and supported the section with 2"x6" studs (just for the case). I don't have carpet (hate carpets although in winter things get drafty ) only wool area rug. Before , bass (in a case of K-horns midbass really) literally leaked trough the floor. It is much better now (subjective impression) fuller , and more articulated. Simply room sounds more "ballanced" now. If your new (future)house has a carpet I would think of putting those boards under the carpet ,one or two layers (single cement board is 0.5"tick).Heck ,it would be easy to experiment without and construction. Rent the Home Depot truck for couple hrs ,bring 12 or more cement boards (they are much more menageable than 4x8 drywall and not that heavy) . Cover floor, or carpet with painter's plastic cover lay down boards on the floor single or double layer on choosen spot and listen ,measure. If the results are negligible or not to your liking pack the boards on the truck and return to Home Depot. You're out of $50 rental bucks and 5 Lbs lighter (from excerciseSmile.
Regards, W
01-28-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
zanon
Posts 54
Joined on 11-14-2009

Post #: 145
Post ID: 12794
Reply to: 12793
I used planks of wood
fiogf49gjkf0d
Very interesting.

I spent a bunch of time messing around with slot loading under my druids, and then put 1 inch thick planks of wood I had lying around under them instead. Both tone and amplitude of bass improved noticeably (although please note we are talking about druid bass which has been discussed to death elsewhere in this forum). Another benefit was that it was easy to slide the speakers around on their little wooden surfboards, so I could handle positioning more easily.

Now I am wondering if a denser material may further increase tone and amplitude of bass.
01-29-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 146
Post ID: 12797
Reply to: 12793
To seal or not to seal?
fiogf49gjkf0d
Thanks, Wojtekm it sounds like interesting experience. I would mention that you use K-horns and with them the loading would be much more capriccios then it would it be with stand-alone infinite-baffle bass section. Did you seal the space between the panels and the space between the panels and the walls?


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
01-29-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 147
Post ID: 12800
Reply to: 12782
The midbass horn: the first uppercut from real-estate.
fiogf49gjkf0d

 Romy the Cat wrote:

Ok, I do officially like this “Battle Road” hours. Upon many considerations (and there are 4 ways to implement the midbass horn in that room) I have inclined to my leading idea to do it elegant and with time alignment.  The drawing below and a above are way out right proportion and dimensions are by my visual assessment. Still the idea is there.  I am considering to put two straight, irregular pentagon  or heptagon shaped, 12’-13’, Hypobaric 0.7, 45Hz horns in the attic of the house and to have the mouths to fire into the bid room. This will kill with one hit the following objectives:

1)      Not notable in the room

2)      Time-alignable

3)      Not direct radiation and allowing wave maturation

4)      Do not destroy property too much

5)      Kill the fist reflection for the MF channels

6)      Elegant.

I do see in this a tremendous opportunity.

Hm, I was so proud about myself for a few days. I thought I have a key how to render my midbass horn in perfects time-aligned position and to make it literally invisible in my new room. It was such an elegant design!!! It still might be renderable but I discover some aspects in the new house that can make it very hard to implement. I was already thinking about the color patter of my new horns! Such a blow!!!

Anyhow, if I get this house then the configuration of the room still allows me to implement very good midbass horn but it will be no time alignment.  That is not good and I need to think about it. To have midbass with 12-15msec delay… I do not know if I want even to experiment with it.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
01-29-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Wojtek
Pinckney (MI), United States
Posts 178
Joined on 09-01-2005

Post #: 148
Post ID: 12802
Reply to: 12800
I didn't have to seal
fiogf49gjkf0d
because floor josts support and extend the walls (they are solid  2"x6")so just screwed the board tightly to them. Because I needed the boards only within 10' so I have 3 rows of 5' +5' with the seam in the middle. I cut the second layer of bards so it overlaped the seam in the middle. I might plaster it over when it'll warm up. Please note that I use K-horn bass bins only for bass, midbass and experiment with free standing upper bass ,mid tweeter sections. Same problem with time misalignment but since the space is so confined and tight it is what it is. I agree that corner horns are more demanding on surrounding surfaces but even mini monitor without notable bass below 60 hz performs better in the room. Anyway it is only a half solution but It was cheap, fairly easy and I like the effect.
Regards, W
01-29-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
miab
Canada
Posts 46
Joined on 02-07-2008

Post #: 149
Post ID: 12804
Reply to: 12789
Proper structure stiffening
fiogf49gjkf0d
 The proper way is little more involving but doable as I believe you don't mind customizing structure as you will probably be in the new house for good or a very long time. Sister joists PL glued and screwed to original joist (wood or engineered( full thickness, no i beam)) or equal distance between the existing, with a polyurathane foam sprayed full depth of cavity between. Moisten the undercarriage of the floor above with fine water spray for a couple days before to allow all wood to accept a little moisture into the grain before spraying the polyurathne. It will 'glue' everything together. From the top, if you have carpet/hardwood, rip it up and glue and screw (every 6") 3/4" FIR plywood onto existing plywood/plank boards. It's a good idea to screw every 6" existing plywood/plank floor into old and new joists below before new Fir plywood on top. Then finish floor with whatever you like (ie. preferable carpet). For extra measure you could plywood the underneath of joists with fir plywood again.
 After all this 1 or 2 new crossbeam structure (Post and beam) should be placed at a 1/3rd distance from existing post beam supports, tighten upwards and then tightenend again after some time. Yo can actually affect resonance of floor above by manipulating the post/beam tightening. Hopefully you have access underneath and not too much electrical wires or plumbing or ductwork running through/under the existing joists. You might need the appropriate trade in to disassemble the utility until the new sisiter joists are in.
 After this you will think and feel you are on a concrete slab. It sounds like much work but could be done in 2 days with proper planning from utility trades.
01-29-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
miab
Canada
Posts 46
Joined on 02-07-2008

Post #: 150
Post ID: 12805
Reply to: 12800
What did you find?
fiogf49gjkf0d
 Romy the Cat wrote:
Hm, I was so proud about myself for a few days. I thought I have a key how to render my midbass horn in perfects time-aligned position and to make it literally invisible in my new room. It was such an elegant design!!! It still might be renderable but I discover some aspects in the new house that can make it very hard to implement. I was already thinking about the color patter of my new horns! Such a blow!!!


What did you find in the new house that will not allow you to do that? There might be a way around it.
01-29-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,570
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 151
Post ID: 12806
Reply to: 12804
Roger, the Sistering
fiogf49gjkf0d
Joist sistering is nice not just because it strengthens the whole structure but it also reduces the clear span for the floor sheeting, itself.  Depending on how it's done, sistering can actually serve as a structural substitute for beams and shoring, where that is not practical or it is not desired.  Still, it's nice to be able to "tune" the listening room floor with screw jacks, if you can do it.  Sistering can also be fairly involved, for a number of reasons that are case-specific.  I have done some small-ish areas that took several days because of complicated blocking and/or strapping, etc., stepped floors, pony walls, and/or plumbing, HVAC, electrical, etc., ad nauseum, not to mention getting new, straight joists in alongside old, badly sagging joists.  It's a matter of degree versus access, believe me.  If the polyurethane references are for a solid foam filling, I have never done it in a floor cavity, and I'm not sure I'd want to, since that precludes subsequent access or "fishing" without serious digging.  One does want to fill the floor cavity voids with something suitable before drywall/plastering, however, for acoustic reasons.


Paul S
01-30-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 152
Post ID: 12809
Reply to: 12805
I wish it were easier…
fiogf49gjkf0d

 miab wrote:

 Romy the Cat wrote:
 
Hm, I was so proud about myself for a few days. I thought I have a key how to render my midbass horn in perfects time-aligned position and to make it literally invisible in my new room. It was such an elegant design!!! It still might be renderable but I discover some aspects in the new house that can make it very hard to implement. I was already thinking about the color patter of my new horns! Such a blow!!!

 
What did you find in the new house that will not allow you to do that? There might be a way around it.

Miab, I thought about this properly a lot. There is a lot in this house that I like from audio perspective. I like how the listening room talks with the other rooms and a few other moments. The most important is that the listening room allows using a semi-long-wall configuration, has enough for my objective volume and still not huge to lose the near-filed configuration.  I have been looking for right house from July and this is the very first that i was able to like in the neighborhood that I like, having other amendment trhat I like and is in my price range. I think the size of the listening room is perfect for what I am trying to accomplish: not too small to let Macondo to breathe free but not too large where Milq would clip to handle the power.

HousePlan.jpg

When I saw the house for a first time, I literary in my car right after the open house drew a plan how the midbass hours might be implemented in there. Below is the representation of the idea. The sealing below the moths of the midbass horns is cathedral, with wings doing right and left. The space above is a regular triangle roof with attic. So, there is a triangle wall in the second floor between the cathedral listening room and the house attic, where both roofs shape “T”. So, my idea was to cut off that triangle wall on the “second floor” of the listening room and slide in the attic a pair of the midbass horns, having their mouths to be the triangle wall. It is 19 feet by 6-8 feet – a good dimension to have two mouths.

Upon further inspection I have learned in the location what the horns shall be there are the beams from the perpendicular roof. That sucks! There is an option however. The beams that are in my way are the legacy of the attic roof but it is still under the cathedral roof. So, hypothetically the beams can be cut to accommodate the horns but I am afraid that it will screw up the structural integrity of the attic roof. So, I might bring a roof specialist to evaluate if those internal diagonal studs might be removed. Alternatively it would be possible to keep the existing beams in the mouth of the horns. I wish it were easier…

HornsOnAttic_1.jpg

HornsOnAttic_2.jpg

HornsOnAttic_3.jpg

HornsOnAttic_4.jpg

HornsOnAttic_5.jpg

I do have alternative ways how the big horns might be done in the room (option B) but I will lose the time-alignment.

Rgs, Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
01-30-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
jessie.dazzle


Paris, France
Posts 456
Joined on 04-23-2006

Post #: 153
Post ID: 12810
Reply to: 12800
Dig in your heals & make them fit
fiogf49gjkf0d
Romy wrote:

Looking at the images, from a structural point of view, the situation seems very workable.

Lets assume the new horns are built such that their walls might support a light (structural) load.

Look at the 90° intersection of the two ridge poles (the peaks of the two roofs); from that node, there is perfect triangulation straight down to two more nodes. This means that the primary structure would remain sound and un disturbed by removing the part of the beams that run through the mouths of the horns. Removing this part would require only that you beef up the ridge pole above the cut beams (as it will now be taking a little more load in bending), and that you attach the remaining part of the offending beams directly to the walls of the new horns. This would also help ground the horn's resonances.

I'd also follow Miab's advice on reinforcing and grounding a suspended floor.

As you pointed out, you've finally found a place with many positive points; this gives it, for you, a certain value beyond its purchase price. Over here where all real estate is not only valuable, but down right precious, people do not hesitate to rip into the main structure of very old, multi-floor buildings, often times with 4 or 5 floors of families living above, slip in a few big jacks, add a huge beam, and knock out an offending wall.

Facing and accepting the task is often the most difficult aspect of "big" operations.

jd*


How to short-circuit evolution: Enshrine mediocrity.
01-30-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 154
Post ID: 12811
Reply to: 12810
I hope I do not need to do for the alternative option
fiogf49gjkf0d

Yes, Jessie, this is the direction that I am contemplating - to put up a vertical poll to support the attic main beam and to cut the 4-5 diagonal lowering beams that lead to my working triangular wall.  Also the residue of the attic roof under the cathedral roof needs to be removed. My initial sentiment was that it would be essay but not I see that it will be not, if it is ever doable.

If I get the house then I would move in, get conformation from professional roofers or architect that what I would like to do is doable. Then I would devise a detail plan for the horns and for the way how the horns would be imbedded into the house. I am planning to recruit a horn builder I know to overview the design of horn and to consult my local woodworker. Facing and accepting the task is not a problem to me if I clearly see that the project will be successful and if I have all necessary lavers to navigate the project.

The alternative option is to put the horns in the 4 large 5x7 feet windows that the opposite wall has but it has few moments that I do not like. The time-alignment is the key for me and with midbass-horns are behind the MF channels is too much delay. Second, is that I would like to preserve front wall of the listening room. There is a lot of potential in it. It has 4 huge window-doors 5x7’ that allow making the whole width of the listening room wide open to open air.  Right behind the window-doors is a deck and then a forest. I do not know how the birds singing and sound of the near stream will be compatible with my Bruckner but I very much like the idea of playback be able to operate in a virtual open air. It looks like the neighbors will be not the subject in this house as they are 1) too far 2) the cathedral room will be doing the detractively shaping and the sound will go mostly to the forest. So, I would prefer do not put the front to the front wall…

House_BirdsView.JPG

As you see, Jessie, the house is very promising and I can’t wait to start paling with that room!

Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
01-30-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 155
Post ID: 12812
Reply to: 12810
…. certain value beyond its purchase price.
fiogf49gjkf0d
 jessie.dazzle wrote:
As you pointed out, you've finally found a place with many positive points; this gives it, for you, a certain value beyond its purchase price. Over here where all real estate is not only valuable, but down right precious, people do not hesitate to rip into the main structure of very old, multi-floor buildings, often times with 4 or 5 floors of families living above, slip in a few big jacks, add a huge beam, and knock out an offending wall.
Yes, it is true: the positive points of the listening room do add to me the value beyond its price. Not everything is perfect in this house: for instance it is too big for my need, way too big but frankly it is the less expensive I have seen so far, having the combination of the desirable properties. Ironically the price was not the main motivation to me but there is in it a very pleasant personally that I turned to like. Like those large 5x7 windows are bad ass reflective surfaces but the windows have blinds of it made from phenomenal acoustic damper – heavy, 1” thick, with double layers, connected with lower-resonant frequency bridge – it is like some was thinking about my need! The good part about this one that I do not build the room from scratch – that would take a LOT of efforts and I might use everything as is. I am very enthusiastic, just wish the attic horns idea were render-able… BTW, Jessie, you build the thing, so, what in your estimate the whole attic 13’ horns project might run into money-wise?

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
01-30-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
miab
Canada
Posts 46
Joined on 02-07-2008

Post #: 156
Post ID: 12814
Reply to: 12812
It's not so bad really.
fiogf49gjkf0d
Nice drawings Romy. It's looks from them that it is not too bad a situation IF your dealing with roof rafters and not trusses. Trusses look similiar to this link: 

http://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://www.cedar-log-homes.com/Small-stuff-images/TypicalRoofTruss.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.cedar-log-homes.com/Roof-trusses.htm&h=324&w=524&sz=5&tbnid=ltCHYCKQAXwzXM:&tbnh=82&tbnw=132&prev=/images%3Fq%3Droof%2Btrusses&hl=en&usg=__wz1x2t73z1ooUnCooiDP6r-ga5M=&ei=_25kS-HZGsrh8QbBqOWdAw&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=8&ct=image&ved=0CCcQ9QEwBw

Roof rafters in a traditional type look like this:

http://www.timber.org.au/ewebeditpro4/upload/Nom_roof(1).jpg

First, your cathedral roof is using the structure of the attic roof for support where it starts to blend with it and maybe the internal wall of the attic capped room. Is there a little bulkhead where the two rooms join? That would be a little protrusion of the ceiling at that point. If so, there will be a support beam there. Keeping a center post between the horns like you have in the drawing will help. The triangular part (if looking from above the house) moving up the attic roof to the end point of the triangle is using each roof rafter for support. Especially with snow load in Boston you don't want to just cut any out. Your right about having a professional look before you cut. If you're to do it 'official' you will also need city approval when dealing with structure. That being said, it is not at all a huge undertaking. The horn building will be the more dificult part of the project. 

You would reframe the roof of the attic space as you would, for example, a huge triangular window dormer. You see these little peaked windows popping out of the roof as you drive by older neighborhoods.  

Want I want to stress and is more important than I think you took it in an earlier post is the condensing factor within the horn and back cavity. The temperature difference between the attic (cold in winter/hot in summer) and room below (warm in winter/cool in summer) will need to be dealt with. The best and most thorough solution to this is to insulate/vapor barrier/sheath the underside of the roof rafters and condition the space. Actually make the attic or the part where the horns are, part of your living space. Either take a duct run and return air up there from existing furnace utility (you can keep the ceiling under the horns this way. Or open the attic space as an extension of the cathedral ceiling of the perpendicular room and have the normal warm air rising heat the space and put a ceiling fan in to help in summer getting the warm air out of the peaks.

If you want to just insulate around the horns and back cavity, take care putting in a complete vapour barrier on their exterior and then wrapping them with (I think in Boston) R30 or R40 blanket. This is not ideal but doable but you might run into issues later.

All the above is if your NOT dealing with roof trusses. Trusses are a different animal and need to be totally restructured if you want to do what your thinking. That involves taking the whole roof off. Not fun and I would never do it.

BTW I very much like plan A and NOT plan B. That view of the forest is spectacular and will just add to the benefits and enjoyment of your first home purchase, audio aside.
01-30-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 157
Post ID: 12815
Reply to: 12814
I hope it would all work out.
fiogf49gjkf0d

Thanks, miab

I am encouraged that your guys feel that it is doable. I was cowling in the attic and had very bad feeling. The beams (you call them trusses) are VERY thick and the attic is not a full waking. The house has center AC and my red triangle red wall has two vents. I thought that it is not a big deal to relocate them but being the vents are 2-feet-wide diameter.  The roof is cut just to accommodate the vent’s pipes, so the Red Wall is nit well reachable from attic. So, the Red Wall needs to be collapse from the cathedral room and then the attic space needs to be freed from there.

I presume that horns need to be assembled in the cathedral room, lifted up and slide to the attic, stopping mouths were the Red Wall used to be. Then the Red Wall need to be rebuilt around the mouths of the horns.  If and when I moive I would need some to evaluate all of this. I would LOVE to do is as it would make the horns time-alight, load cathedral ceiling from the mouth of the horns and even will extend the volume of cathedral room.  Funny it will not even diminish the cost of the house and it will use the space that is not being used now.  I wonder in 50 years what I will be long gone the people will be wonder what the hell formers owners were trying to do in there….

The 40Hz, ½ size, 13’-14’ hyperbolic at .7 midbass in time-align location and invisible in the room (with complimentary LF section)? That might be a LOT of fun! I hope it would all work out.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
01-30-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,570
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 158
Post ID: 12816
Reply to: 12815
Words vs. Pictures
fiogf49gjkf0d
Nice site, Romy!  Space is the Bomb!

Regarding the remodel, it would be easier to speculate if we had some photographs of the areas we are discussing.

At this point, speaking abstractly, it looks do-able, even if those rafters are trusses that had to be taken out.  But it generally comes down to cost/benefit, doesn't it?

I think you would do well to +/- settle on the horns themselves before you start on the house structure.  That way you can possibly use parts of the house as parts of the horn, and vice versa.  Based on what I've seen so far, it might also help if you can accept truss "cords" in the horns.

Anyway, I'd love to tackle a project like this, and I'm sure there are worthy pros in your area who would be quite enthusiastic about it.

Do not be surprised if the pros tell you that the attic solution does not look like a weekend project.  In fact, be good and sure that anyone who says otherwise knows what he's talking about before you write any checks.

No one ever listens, but if you go for it, then I would highly recommend you stay where you are until all work on the new place is complete; then move.

BTW, your drawings appear to show what would likely (in the real world) be a vibrating diaphragm covering a lot of ceiling area.

Shades of the "shaker"...

Paul S
01-30-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 159
Post ID: 12818
Reply to: 12815
Here is where the horns advantages bite my by my tail.
fiogf49gjkf0d

Ok, the story about the Red Wall is getting stranger …. Further thinning about all of it I came up with a brilliant idea.

The Red Wall has two air-conditioner wants. So, if the horns are built on the Red Wall then why do not make the rents … in the belly of the horns. Look, I install the big horns with a minor tilt toward to the room. At the ¾ of the horn I make a went and connect the air-conditioning pipe to there. Now the air-condoning in blowing inside the belly of the horn and since the cold air is heavier then hot air it will descent into the room and do not go up to the horn driver.  Since the horn will be crossed at let say 150Hz then I do not think that the vent size will be even notable by the wave in the horn. I love the idea a lot! I just concern that the horn will amplify for 6dB the noise from the air passing from the vent…

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
01-30-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 160
Post ID: 12819
Reply to: 12816
Too soon now.
fiogf49gjkf0d
 Paul S wrote:
….it would be easier to speculate if we had some photographs of the areas we are discussing.
I do not feel comfortable at this point to post any photographs. It is somebody else’s home now. If and when it will be mine then I am sure I will post some photographs of the Red Wall and the location where the Midbass Horns might go.

The Cat
 


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
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