Romy the Cat wrote:

Romy the Cat wrote: http://www.goodsoundclub.com/pdf/YO-186.pdf

I kind of finished my amp and calibrated it for YO186 and I still fence sitting about my opinion regarding this tube. It is a good tube, a good representative of RE-604 class but it has own immensely interesting character. It has extremely good bass and stunning lower MF, in the rest it is similar to RE-604. However, it has own amassing dark and gloomy character and own very unique dismal color palette. It is difficult to get it and it is difficult to understand the uniqueness of YO186 palette. It took for me for a while to get it and to appreciate it.

The YO186 is not wild-color-type of tube and it is not flashy. It has what I call the “wildness of desert colors” where colors are submissive and reserved but they have different qualities. Those colors do not strike by wild saturation but rather by richness of own identity and there is own beautiful in this. It is like you did not have any food for 5 days and then you have a single bite of an apple. The richness of that single bite and it meaning would create more reaction in your head then a 92 ounce sirloin steak during your normal feasting time. Then there is the subject of quality of that …. apple.

The quality of that apple and the quality of YO186 tone is a very interesting subject. In terms or food the people I hate the most are French. Those French motherfukers have soil in their county with some kind unique combinations of minerals that allow fruit grown in that soil to taste like nothing else in the world. I like to celebrate obesity and I like food. I remember when I first time visited France I was walking from airport to my hotel and stopped by in a tiny, family-own, relatively dirty corner grocery shop to ask a direction. Suddenly I was attracted by some strange smell. I was walling around the shop chasing the smell and end up at a pile of regular, not particularly fresh in my view grape. Just for curiosity I took one piece and put in my mouth. It hard to explain what happen next but that grape exploded in my mouth with a force of 50 megaton nuclear device. I never thought that it is possible, my jaws were paradise and I did not know what to do next… It was not even the richness of the colors that stroke me but it was a completely different relationship between sense of taste expectations of what  taste might do to my sensations- collecting soil. The YO186 tone in the way the same, let me to explain.

When we expect “tone” we expect a certain esthetic impact that is of cause a subjects of our amplitude of perceptions and the amplitude of message.  However, we look into the things slightly deeper then we can recognize that there is a “primary esthetic impact” and the “aftershock”. In association with sound I call it “esthetic fundamental” and “esthetic harmonics”.  The “esthetic harmonics” are the reverberations of initial tonal impact of our perception after the tone have collapsed. The YO186 does not go overly wild in the “esthetic fundamentals” but in the shadows of those fundamentals, when mind is cooling down from initial acquaintance with tone, is the area where the YO186 shines.

The YO186 is in my view is superb second violin tube, the way how it fills the harmonic gaps is very interesting. It has own tonal signature of downcasted colors, but the colors subdued bit but adding white to originals colors but rather by adding water to the colors. So, the colors are submissive but still intense and have own passionate drama in them and very own class of expressiveness. This all make YO186 to be on dark, almost melancholic and sorrowful side. Thinks about Pathétiqu’s Adagio Lamentoso. But here, in dark, is where the YO186 is able to fill Sound with a firework of “little shinny things”, sort of discovering life at the bottom of Mariana Trench …

Do not be under impression that YO186 is ONLY “darky” tube. It you pump into YO186 initially gray sound then YO186 like a prism would throw out zillion shades of gray. But when I stick into YO186 very colorful Sound, perhaps a bit overly colorful then YO186 demonstrates a fantastic pyrotechnic of capacities.

A week or so ago I told that I play much more vinyl then before. The interesting part is that I do not like to play nowadays any other cartridge then my Ortofone Jubilee. The Jubilee is superbly colorful son of bitch and I think it is exactly what YO186 craves.

http://www.RomyTheCat.com/TreeItem.aspx?PostID=8388

Last night I pulled from my shelves that host the “Best Recordings Ever” my favorite Lutoslawski cello concerto. The Lutoslawski cello concerto is like a drug trip but in this performance if is something even better. It is Japanese EMI pressing with the composer himself conducting the Orchestre de Paris in 1974 with Rostropovich leading. The performance is nothing short of insane and the sound is phenomenal. The Lutoslawski concerto as some other contemporary cello works is played on “decayed” cello. Here is where the YO186’s “million darn shadows” go absolutely feral. But it needed to be played initially with “esthetic fundamental” – cable front end. I feel the Ortofone Jubilee, it a good “match”. You need to hear my Siegfried Palm’s Records (thanks, el`Ol) to recognize where the YO186 runs the show….

floobydust wrote:

I'm lukcy to have a large stash of NOS 45 ...

It turned out that I end up with 4V tubes for MF channel and am running my YO186. The 2A3 tubers I kind of have left on peripheral of my interests. It is not the 2A3 tubes are “bad”.  I did not go deep with 2A3 and did not try their expensive single plate versions. Wherever I tried was fine, still the 45 tubes were more exiting in my view, perhaps because they are single-plated by nature…

I very much do not write a “universal” observation about those DHT tubes. In fact my own experience shell be irrelevant for other as I am looking at MF that work in relatively narrow bandwidth and in context  of compliments from neighboring channels. As I said before with my current understanding of what I need and knowledge what to listen I probobly would make ANY tube in my MF application to sound virtually identical, as I have a lot of tools to manage it’s sound.

Anyhow, with YO186 running and with 45 and RE604 as equitable backup I do not have temptation to look for anything else. However, a lack of my interest has nothing to do with other have their options. About one of that option I would like to mention - a very little (if any know) in the West Russian 2S4S/2C4C tube.

Russians produces their equivalent to 2A3 – the 4S4S tube, or you might see 4S4S, which is the same. The 4S4S was a clear 2A3 plagiarism. There are some rumors that 2A3 was given to Russians by RCA’s chief David Sarnoff. RCA in those years did a lot of symphony sharing with Russians, primary because David’s Russian descendantcy. Russians made 4S4S with 6.3V filenames, which make it more similar to 6A3. There were tone of them made in Russian and they are very popular among Russkies. I would not put a lot on stake for this tube, how the very early production of 4S4S from 40s is reportedly much-much more interesting to what 4S4S turned out to be in 50s and 60s, and I presume that 4S4S from 40s might compete with best Western 2A3.

http://www.goodsoundclub.com/PDF/6S4S.pdf

There is an interesting kink in all of it.  The 4S4S is well known to Western DIYers as some sort of “poor man 2A3/6A3”, no one of the Western DIYers do not used the 4S4S from 40s – they juts can’t get them.  There was however one overlook tube in this saga - 2S4S. The 2S4S is 2.5V version of 4S4S and it was the more accurate reproduction of 2A3. The 2S4S was made earlier, in smaller numbers and used technologies where “saving” was less an option. So, the low voltage 2S4S from 40s or 50s might be VERY interesting tube for somebody to investigate is you are in the 2a3 word.

Looking what my YO186 does comparing to it’s western equivalents I do not feel that YO186 is a “little browser” of any 4V western counterparts and I would boldly take SOME attributes of the YO186 sound against the “celebrated” attributes of RE604,  KL71403, AD1, PX4 and other “famous” 4V tubes. It is not to mention that I in most cased the “fame” of those tubes does not derive from the actual sonic results but from a desire of many audio morons to create a cult – I have a LOT of evidences for it.  So, following the pattern of thought that the OLD Russian production (only the old one) might be very good I feel that it is very possible that 2S4S will turn out to be a VERY interesting alternative to 2A3. Some Russian who managed to find the 2S4S and compare them to 2A3 feel that 2S4S hold it’s own but I invest very little to what they say. Anyhow, it is all yours…

Romy the Cat wrote:

I have to admit that I have written a few pieces of writing about my experiences with YO186 but I withhold to post it as I do not know if it might valuable for anybody. It looks like no one use YO186 on West. There are very few who use YO186 in Russia, Bulgaria and Poland (a handful people) but I do have contact with them. I kind of finished my amp and calibrated it for YO186 and I still fence sitting about my opinion regarding this tube. It is a good tube, a good representative of RE-604 class but it has own immensely interesting character. It has extremely good bass and stunning lower MF, in the rest it is similar to RE-604. However, it has own amassing dark and gloomy character and own very unique dismal color palette. It is difficult to get it and it is difficult to understand the uniqueness of YO186 palette. It took for me for a while to get it and to appreciate it. The YO186 is not wild-color-type of tube and it is not flashy. It has what I call the “wildness of desert colors” where colors are submissive and reserved but they have different qualities. Those colors do not strike by wild saturation but rather by richness of own identity and there is own beautiful in this. It is like you did not have any food for 5 days and then you have a single bite of an apple. The richness of that single bite and it meaning would create more reaction in your head then a 92 ounce sirloin steak during your normal feasting time. Then there is the subject of quality of that …. apple. The quality of that apple and the quality of YO186 tone is a very interesting subject. In terms or food the people I hate the most are French. Those French motherfukers have soil in their county with some kind unique combinations of minerals that allow fruit grown in that soil to taste like nothing else in the world. I like to celebrate obesity and I like food. I remember when I first time visited France I was walking from airport to my hotel and stopped by in a tiny, family-own, relatively dirty corner grocery shop to ask a direction. Suddenly I was attracted by some strange smell. I was walling around the shop chasing the smell and end up at a pile of regular, not particularly fresh in my view grape. Just for curiosity I took one piece and put in my mouth. It hard to explain what happen next but that grape exploded in my mouth with a force of 50 megaton nuclear device. I never thought that it is possible, my jaws were paradise and I did not know what to do next… It was not even the richness of the colors that stroke me but it was a completely different relationship between sense of taste expectations of what  taste might do to my sensations- collecting soil. The YO186 tone in the way the same, let me to explain. When we expect “tone” we expect a certain esthetic impact that is of cause a subjects of our amplitude of perceptions and the amplitude of message.  However, we look into the things slightly deeper then we can recognize that there is a “primary esthetic impact” and the “aftershock”. In association with sound I call it “esthetic fundamental” and “esthetic harmonics”.  The “esthetic harmonics” are the reverberations of initial tonal impact of our perception after the tone have collapsed. The YO186 does not go overly wild in the “esthetic fundamentals” but in the shadows of those fundamentals, when mind is cooling down from initial acquaintance with tone, is the area where the YO186 shines. The YO186 is in my view is superb second violin tube, the way how it fills the harmonic gaps is very interesting. It has own tonal signature of downcasted colors, but the colors subdued bit but adding white to originals colors but rather by adding water to the colors. So, the colors are submissive but still intense and have own passionate drama in them and very own class of expressiveness. This all make YO186 to be on dark, almost melancholic and sorrowful side. Thinks about Pathétiqu’s Adagio Lamentoso. But here, in dark, is where the YO186 is able to fill Sound with a firework of “little shinny things”, sort of discovering life at the bottom of Mariana Trench … Do not be under impression that YO186 is ONLY “darky” tube. It you pump into YO186 initially gray sound then YO186 like a prism would throw out zillion shades of gray. But when I stick into YO186 very colorful Sound, perhaps a bit overly colorful then YO186 demonstrates a fantastic pyrotechnic of capacities. A week or so ago I told that I play much more vinyl then before. The interesting part is that I do not like to play nowadays any other cartridge then my Ortofone Jubilee. The Jubilee is superbly colorful son of bitch and I think it is exactly what YO186 craves. http://www.RomyTheCat.com/TreeItem.aspx?PostID=8388 Last night I pulled from my shelves that host the “Best Recordings Ever” my favorite Lutoslawski cello concerto. The Lutoslawski cello concerto is like a drug trip but in this performance if is something even better. It is Japanese EMI pressing with the composer himself conducting the Orchestre de Paris in 1974 with Rostropovich leading. The performance is nothing short of insane and the sound is phenomenal. The Lutoslawski concerto as some other contemporary cello works is played on “decayed” cello. Here is where the YO186’s “million darn shadows” go absolutely feral. But it needed to be played initially with “esthetic fundamental” – cable front end. I feel the Ortofone Jubilee, it a good “match”. You need to hear my Siegfried Palm’s Records (thanks, el`Ol) to recognize where the YO186 runs the show….

The way how Milq is made the replacement of MF tube is VERY simple and takes less than a minute, including the recalibration. In fact I do no replace the MF tube but what I turn the amp I have an idea what kind listening it will be and I plug the appropriate tube for a given type of listening.

The YO186 is a tube that I, at my best, would describe as “fucked up” tube. I do not know (or care) about the distortions of this tube of the specific way how it operates in my amp but it is very far from being linear and transparent. It is in away a colorations generator. I would not use the YO186 full range for instance and it has too much Tannoyish character, if you know what I mean. In DSET application however, the YO186 might do VERY interesting thing if YO186 isused properly.

So, what I do, I use the YO186 sparingly. I use it ONLY when I want to listen my playback at full blue and when the material is really worth it. In other times I stick into the Milq the 45 tube that is WAY more linear, neutral and impartial; also the 45 tube is way less interesting and I do insist that the “reference” sound as I defined it I am getting from my playback with the YO186 employed in Milq MF channel.

http://www.goodsoundclub.com/Forums/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=11587

The use of YO186 is like using for specific type of shooting the old Russian-made Helios 40/2 lens at full-open diaphragm. I am sure no one has idea what it is it but I juts would say that there is no one commercial portrait lens in the world that was able to anything similar to what Helios 40/2 did at 1.5 stop. Again, if Helios 40/2 was properly used. The YO186 is in way in the same scale. I do not know how about YO186 vs. the “other tubes in the world”. I did not use a lot of different tubes. I might talk about lenses as I knew lenses much better in past then I know tubes now. However among the DHT tubes that I do have the YO186 is far further into the Helios 40 “distortion” effect. BTW, the original Telefunken 604 has the similar tendency but if 604 juts suggests what is possible, the YO186 takes it the way down to the realm of possible. The Telefunken 604 is in away the Summarex 1.5/85 or the Mamiya 4/150SF. The YO186 is the Helios 40/2 at 1.5. There is nothing else that need to be said.

serenechaos wrote:

Would YO 186 be appropriate to use in "fundamental" chanel?  Over narrower band width, to color, "spice," "flavor" more?

Where I would LOVE to try the YO186 it would be the upperbass channel – this would be VERY interesting. I would load it to 12K-14K to do so, but I afraid that it would not have power to drive upperbass in A1

Romy the Cat wrote:

After a few month of living with YO186 I think I know everything about this tube. I do not use the YO186 all time and I think the explanation why I do not use it all time would well describe what YO186 is and how I use my MF channel. The way how Milq is made the replacement of MF tube is VERY simple and takes less than a minute, including the recalibration. In fact I do no replace the MF tube but what I turn the amp I have an idea what kind listening it will be and I plug the appropriate tube for a given type of listening. The YO186 is a tube that I, at my best, would describe as “fucked up” tube. I do not know (or care) about the distortions of this tube of the specific way how it operates in my amp but it is very far from being linear and transparent. It is in away a colorations generator. I would not use the YO186 full range for instance and it has too much Tannoyish character, if you know what I mean. In DSET application however, the YO186 might do VERY interesting thing if YO186 isused properly. So, what I do, I use the YO186 sparingly. I use it ONLY when I want to listen my playback at full blue and when the material is really worth it. In other times I stick into the Milq the 45 tube that is WAY more linear, neutral and impartial; also the 45 tube is way less interesting and I do insist that the “reference” sound as I defined it I am getting from my playback with the YO186 employed in Milq MF channel. http://www.goodsoundclub.com/Forums/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=11587 The use of YO186 is like using for specific type of shooting the old Russian-made Helios 40/2 lens at full-open diaphragm. I am sure no one has idea what it is it but I juts would say that there is no one commercial portrait lens in the world that was able to anything similar to what Helios 40/2 did at 1.5 stop. Again, if Helios 40/2 was properly used. The YO186 is in way in the same scale. I do not know how about YO186 vs. the “other tubes in the world”. I did not use a lot of different tubes. I might talk about lenses as I knew lenses much better in past then I know tubes now. However among the DHT tubes that I do have the YO186 is far further into the Helios 40 “distortion” effect. BTW, the original Telefunken 604 has the similar tendency but if 604 juts suggests what is possible, the YO186 takes it the way down to the realm of possible. The Telefunken 604 is in away the Summarex 1.5/85 or the Mamiya 4/150SF. The YO186 is the Helios 40/2 at 1.5. There is nothing else that need to be said.

The last couple days I was running Milq with Type 45 tube in MF, since the temperature is  down and I run the amp non-stopping I substitute my YO186 to type 45 juts for one reason – to preserve more life of YO186. I can’t avoid noticing that playback sound different. In fact it sounds better and I would say more properly – very linear, dynamically and tonally. But it has no “kink” that it had with YO186. With that stupid tube there is absolutely different feeling of rightness. The YO186 somehow makes overtones more important than fundamentals. It almost as if you are blind; you play tennis and hit the ball somewhere in grass. Then knowing that you sprayed the ball with garlic you crawl the field sniffing the ball… The entire game of tennis got converted into sensing …. The type 45 has no “sophistication” in overtones – it juts very-very clean and very tonally impartial – fucking boring!

The overtones with YO186 are great bit then the harmonics. The YO186 harmonics are similar to RE604but wilder. It appears that RE604 introduced more or less liner sophistication of tone as long it deviate from fundamental. The further from the pitch the more Telefunken RE604 glorify the harmonics with own DHT kind. The YO186 acts differently. As long tone jumps out of pitch the YO186 immediately begin to repaint it with some hallucinatory colors, almost like the van Gogh late color parent. What however is the most stunning in the YO186 that is somehow very naturally join that whole salad of tonalities and you do not feel it as a distortions but rather as all normal but beautiful tone. Truly amassing!

Again, I see a lot of similarity with what the Helios 85/1.5 MKII did (if to know how to use it). I was curious if the today young Russians know about that lens and looks at some Russian photo forums. It looks that some of them have discovered it and learn how to deal with it. Here are the images of one of them. The images on the left are from Helios 85/1.5 MKII and on the right by Canon 85/1.2 MKII. Despite that the Canon cost $2000 it is still crappie leans and not the level of Rodenstock or Carl Zeiss soft-focus. Still, it is 28.9 times more expensive then Helios, obviously better from stop 2.0 and up but tale a look what the shitty $69 Russian lens does with the full open hole… Untouchable!

BTW, if you know what I mean then be advised that this Mission Photographer made his experiments shooting on digital that is prohibitive for this level lens. It has to be shut on low-grain 35mm film and then printed at 3 by 5 feet paper. Here is where Helios would show why the unfocus is more impotent then the focus. The YO186 shows off the same…

I was playing today my this week FM recording of Mahler’s “Songs of a Wayfarer” and the “The Song of the Earth” (both life-to-tape by baritone Thomas Hampson, one from San Francisco and another is from Concertgebouw) and I felt that it ever it was good Macondo sound but I was missing my MF “funkiness”.  Last week I decided to “save” my YO186 and I put in there type 45 tube.  Now I felt that it was not enough anymore…

I kind of was looking at my YO186, thinking how much life I can get from it. Theoretically it they run at 8W then might live VERY long. I also have a few of them, though I have no idea how the others will sound. I was contemplating all cons and pros and then it come to me that I was idiot.

How much of that life left?! I might die tomorrow from some kind of stroke – why shall I refuse myself pleasure to hear and to burn the tube that I love?! So, I have made the decision to put in the amps the YO186 and forget it. It is imposable to explain how lucrative and palatable the YoYo tube made the sound of Macondo.  It like the sounds have millions miniature bells and they all ring with different colors…

I decided to celebrate the decision to live permanently with my YoYo tube my playing something where the YoYo would shine in full glory. It was the Mahler "Resurrection" by Ozawa with Saito Kinen Orchestra.  I do not like the performance and the recording as much as I use to like it in past but as a freak show of my YoYo it was beyond my expectations. 

I got today my “$1000 effect” with YoYoed Macondo sound. You know when you play something that you like, the one side of the record is over but you are so out there that you are willing to pay $1000 to somebody to turn the record over…

I played today my favorite Bach’s Sonatas for Viola da Gamba and Harpsichord. It is the 1974 recording by Glenn Gould and Leonard Rose.  The Rose’s cello in this recording has fantastic phrasing and Rose’s very respectful to Gould on madness. To hear them together is more fun then to watch lesbian’s fight in South End. It is the ultimate fight between two giants but they chose do not fight but to complement each other.

The Rose’s cello and his phrasing were great but with this YoYo tube it turned to be like an “X-Ray Holograph”. The X-ray part was due to the details of articulation got highlighted and it sound almost like the Mravinsky strings in 50-60s. The   Holographic pare was from the fact that each single note had the whole information about the entire phrase. It was so wonderful and fascinating that I with this damn record never stop…

It was the perfect YoYonisation. Nope it did not come from YoYoMa but from Yo186…

I have to admit that since I went for DHT on MF channel I go get a number of positive moments in sound but I also lost some aspects of imaging. Do you remember I reported that using two different DHT tube on right and left channels I had strange imaging aberration. Well, I did address the problem by use the very same tubes for right and left channels but in truth the problem did not go away. The aberrations on the fringe of imaging zone (you see how much I do not what to use the word soundstage :-) have gone but the whole presentation pattern have changed and in some case it is not what I would like it to be.

It is very possible (and very likely) that the DHT amps themselves have absolutely nothing to do with it and the imaging alteration took place because my new MF channel are more “contrasty” and more “intense” then they use to be with single-stage 6E5P. To address it I need to move the speakers – something that I do not what to do until I move. Still, I wonder if it would be worth to me experiment with matching of my DHT tubes.

I do not mean matching them by currant, cathode emission or any other quantifiable characteristic but rather by exoteric deformation of imaging?  If the DHT themes are the problems (not the reason that I described in a former paragraph) then the imaging matching might justify itself. I never had this problem with nether 6E5P or 6C33C driving my MF channels. So, are any of you senior DHT guys come across to what I am describing? I did not hear DHT people ever talks about it but I do not hear audio people generally talk about specifics of imaging anyhow….

Romy the Cat wrote:

Romy the Cat wrote:  Romy the Cat wrote: http://www.goodsoundclub.com/pdf/YO-186.pdf I have to admit that I have written a few pieces of writing about my experiences with YO186 but I withhold to post it as I do not know if it might valuable for anybody. It looks like no one use YO186 on West. There are very few who use YO186 in Russia, Bulgaria and Poland (a handful people) but I do have contact with them. I kind of finished my amp and calibrated it for YO186 and I still fence sitting about my opinion regarding this tube. It is a good tube, a good representative of RE-604 class but it has own immensely interesting character. It has extremely good bass and stunning lower MF, in the rest it is similar to RE-604. However, it has own amassing dark and gloomy character and own very unique dismal color palette. It is difficult to get it and it is difficult to understand the uniqueness of YO186 palette. It took for me for a while to get it and to appreciate it. The YO186 is not wild-color-type of tube and it is not flashy. It has what I call the “wildness of desert colors” where colors are submissive and reserved but they have different qualities. Those colors do not strike by wild saturation but rather by richness of own identity and there is own beautiful in this. It is like you did not have any food for 5 days and then you have a single bite of an apple. The richness of that single bite and it meaning would create more reaction in your head then a 92 ounce sirloin steak during your normal feasting time. Then there is the subject of quality of that …. apple. The quality of that apple and the quality of YO186 tone is a very interesting subject. In terms or food the people I hate the most are French. Those French motherfukers have soil in their county with some kind unique combinations of minerals that allow fruit grown in that soil to taste like nothing else in the world. I like to celebrate obesity and I like food. I remember when I first time visited France I was walking from airport to my hotel and stopped by in a tiny, family-own, relatively dirty corner grocery shop to ask a direction. Suddenly I was attracted by some strange smell. I was walling around the shop chasing the smell and end up at a pile of regular, not particularly fresh in my view grape. Just for curiosity I took one piece and put in my mouth. It hard to explain what happen next but that grape exploded in my mouth with a force of 50 megaton nuclear device. I never thought that it is possible, my jaws were paradise and I did not know what to do next… It was not even the richness of the colors that stroke me but it was a completely different relationship between sense of taste expectations of what  taste might do to my sensations- collecting soil. The YO186 tone in the way the same, let me to explain. When we expect “tone” we expect a certain esthetic impact that is of cause a subjects of our amplitude of perceptions and the amplitude of message.  However, we look into the things slightly deeper then we can recognize that there is a “primary esthetic impact” and the “aftershock”. In association with sound I call it “esthetic fundamental” and “esthetic harmonics”.  The “esthetic harmonics” are the reverberations of initial tonal impact of our perception after the tone have collapsed. The YO186 does not go overly wild in the “esthetic fundamentals” but in the shadows of those fundamentals, when mind is cooling down from initial acquaintance with tone, is the area where the YO186 shines. The YO186 is in my view is superb second violin tube, the way how it fills the harmonic gaps is very interesting. It has own tonal signature of downcasted colors, but the colors subdued bit but adding white to originals colors but rather by adding water to the colors. So, the colors are submissive but still intense and have own passionate drama in them and very own class of expressiveness. This all make YO186 to be on dark, almost melancholic and sorrowful side. Thinks about Pathétiqu’s Adagio Lamentoso. But here, in dark, is where the YO186 is able to fill Sound with a firework of “little shinny things”, sort of discovering life at the bottom of Mariana Trench … Do not be under impression that YO186 is ONLY “darky” tube. It you pump into YO186 initially gray sound then YO186 like a prism would throw out zillion shades of gray. But when I stick into YO186 very colorful Sound, perhaps a bit overly colorful then YO186 demonstrates a fantastic pyrotechnic of capacities. A week or so ago I told that I play much more vinyl then before. The interesting part is that I do not like to play nowadays any other cartridge then my Ortofone Jubilee. The Jubilee is superbly colorful son of bitch and I think it is exactly what YO186 craves. http://www.RomyTheCat.com/TreeItem.aspx?PostID=8388 Last night I pulled from my shelves that host the “Best Recordings Ever” my favorite Lutoslawski cello concerto. The Lutoslawski cello concerto is like a drug trip but in this performance if is something even better. It is Japanese EMI pressing with the composer himself conducting the Orchestre de Paris in 1974 with Rostropovich leading. The performance is nothing short of insane and the sound is phenomenal. The Lutoslawski concerto as some other contemporary cello works is played on “decayed” cello. Here is where the YO186’s “million darn shadows” go absolutely feral. But it needed to be played initially with “esthetic fundamental” – cable front end. I feel the Ortofone Jubilee, it a good “match”. You need to hear my Siegfried Palm’s Records (thanks, el`Ol) to recognize where the YO186 runs the show….

Romy the Cat wrote:

Nope, the Russian tubes generally much, in fact much worse than western equivalents. There were however some exceptions. Those options were due to various reasons. The tubes like GM70, YO186, 1P24B, 6E5P, 6N30P, BO188, GM57, UB180, 6C33C 6N6P, M457, ТО-143, YO104 were very-very good.

There is an instrument-making in St. Petersburg, Russian, it call Kazitsky Manufacturing. Nowadays it is a typical post Soviet facility that has no interest but it has an interning history in context of Milq’s MF channel. The Kazitsky Manufacturing was founded in 1853 as the telegraph workshops for German based “Siemens and Halske”. Eventually it grown from a small 15 workers workshop on Vasilevsky Island to a manufacturing plant specializing on assembly of the Hughes telegraphs.  The plane was owned by brothers Karl and Werner Siemens. Новое для царской России телеграфное дело оказалось прибыльным, и братья Сименс вскоре возводят на месте мастерской корпуса электротехнического завода «Сименс и Гальске». New to tsarist Russia telegraph business was profitable and the Siemens and Halske grow to produce dynamo mashies, telegraph equipment and railway signaling devises. . В 1902 году завод начал сборку радиостанций из немецких деталей. In 1902 the plant began assembling radios from German parts.  The Radio industry at that time was booming in Russia. Since 1914 Russia started producing own tubes and in 3 months later they built two identical the most powerful in Europe sparkle radio transmitters – 300kW each.  In two years, since 1916 Russia produces a full spectrum of own tubes.

In 1917, after the October Revolution, the Commies nationalized the Siemens and Halske company and used it as a repair shop for Red Army radiostations. Mr. Kazitsky was some kind of Soviet leader of that time who was killed in 1919 and in 1922 Soviets granted to the “Siemens and Halske” the new name - Kazitsky Manufacturing, the name stuck. The Soviet state has begun to build radio service in Russia at that time and Петроградскому телеграфному заводу поручили организовать производство радио вещательной аппаратуры и вскоре в магазинах появились первые радиоприёмники - "Радиолина". Kazitsky plant was commissioned to organize production of radio broadcasting equipment . The Kazitsky plant got new equipment, research laboratory, etc.

In 1923 Kozitsky Plant organized production of own vacuum-tube radios. At that time Russia had more than 400 transmitters of different capacities and the Kozitsky Plant produced AM receivers, short-wave receivers, and a few models of amplifiers. In 1923 Kozitsky Plant mass produces 1.2W and 4kW transmitters and flooded Russian internal market with wide-band consumer radios. At that time Russians tubes were made in many locations and in 1927-1928 they begin to merge. One of the merged plans – the Svetlana was producing in 1928 over 500,000 amplifier tubes and over 11.000 transmitter tubes. At that time in Russia there were 65 stations and 21.000 re-transmitters.

In 1930 the Kozitsky Plant produces tone of 5-tube AM/SW radios that are battery powered; they also started production of TV receives.  In context of this thread the next move that Kozitsky does is very cool. In 1932-33 Kozitsky Plant begin production of AC powered radio – the model AKL4. It was AM/SW receiver with, direct heated triode power amplifier and leather-suspended driver.

http://www.rw6ase.narod.ru/ej/ej/ekl4_34.html   (the images are clickable)

In this radio Kozitsky first employed the YO104 power triode. Here is the AKL4 circuit.

 Here are the Y0104 datasheet. It was specially designed to be driven with AC on filaments

Here are the Russian 4V power tubes of the period. Pay attention that YO104 and YO186 are virtually identical.

The name of the post I took from the 32th  chapter of M. Bulgakov’s Master and Margarita, so from there will be the epigraph for this post:

“Gods, my gods! How sad the earth is at evening! How mysterious are the fogs over the swamps! …Somebody who is exhausted knows it…. The magical black horses also became tired and carried their riders slowly, and ineluctable night began to overtake them. Sensing the night at his back, even the irrepressible Behemoth quieted down and, his claws dug into the saddle, flew silent and serious, puffing up his tail.  Night began to cover forests and fields with its black shawl, night lit melancholy little lights somewhere far below - now no longer interesting and necessary either for Margarita or for the master - alien lights. Night was outdistancing the cavalcade; it sowed itself over them from above, casting white specks of stars here and there in the saddened sky.  Night  thickened, flew  alongside, caught  at the riders'  cloaks  and,  tearing  them  from  their  shoulders,  exposed  the  deceptions.  And when Margarita, blown upon by the cool wind, opened her eyes, she saw how the appearance of them all was changing as they flew to their goal. And when, from beyond the edge of the forest, the crimson and full moon began rising to meet them, all deceptions vanished, fell into the swamp, the unstable magic garments drowned in the swamps.”

Recently in the thread about getting Special Tone from loudspeakers

http://www.goodsoundclub.com/Forums/ShowPost.aspx?postID=12366

I made a comment:

Romy the Cat wrote:

The S2 driver driven by YO186 has the most insane “coloratura” imaginable ….

I read this comment of mine and I felt that I am one of many audio Morons who keep inventing for themselves justifications why they are “special” and why the garbage that they play within their listening rooms shall be “respected”.  Well, it is hard to argue with it, particularly if you feel it about yourself. Ironically, the more I accuse myself in embracing of the abovementioned self-worshiping behavioral pattern the more I realized that not narcissism drove me and that very much stand behind of the said. Behind what I said there is an absolute or for some it might be an arguable Reality. I do not particularly care about the arguable part – I argue only with myself and it is the most difficult opponent for me. What I however do care is a certain level of an intellectual truthfulness in that expressed feeling of my about S2/YO186. So I decided to re-examine my feeling about the S2/YO186, not for you but for myself, addressing and digging deeper into the subject of YO186’s sound.

I will be lying to you saying that only my comment about made me to do it. The primary reason was the following. Living with my DH MF DSET I have developed a quite reasonable acquired taste in DHT tube and recently I got a few more good tubes to experiment with: Mazda PP3, olded version Marconi PX4, Mallard AC044, an older type of Telefunken RE604, two more version of 2A3 from  1938 and from 1941, Russian YO104 (the ancestor of YO186), Russian 2S4S, GEC PX25, many different types 45, type 50,  type 245, Sofia Electric Type 45, some kind of 4V Osram 4V triodes that does 35mA in my amp. In addition to my former experiments with 4V Telefunken, Klangfilm, Philips, Valvo,  Triotron , Ferranti, Tungsram  and different 2,5V  45/2A3 tubes I think I have all tubes that I would like to try. The only tube that I would like to try but never try in Milq was the AD1 – the need to make a stupid adopter makes me very lazy. So, having all the tubes I was interested to discover why the hell I need all of them?

You see, I do not collect tubes and I do not try to get an answer to the stupid question “what tube is the best”. In some cases I was buying just one tube and I might presume that the specific tubes that I got was not good (all of them reportedly NOS or “as new” and all of them DO push the respectful current of in my Milq). I did not play with operational parameters and played all tubes it at 33-39mA. So, I did not look for “better tube” but I rather was looking for more potent Sound from my amp.  I know how it shall sound. I know what I was getting from the amp and I was looking if some exotic tube would be able to show off to me WHAT I DO NOT KNOW ALREADY. So, since I got my Placette back I spent some time listening and thinking about MF Sound. There was not a lot of revision from where I was staying a few posts back and among all those contestants the  YO186 still shined even brighter then before but I would like to dig a bit deeper with explanations.

This time I played with pre-heated tubes, and all my piled tubes I kept in heated in chimney. For music I selected 3 fragments that give me the needed reference “how Sound shall be”.  First was from the middle of the first movement of Beethoven V by Carlos Kleiber and Vienna from 1975. The second was the opening of IVth movement of Bruckner VIII by Gunter Wand and Munch from 2000. The last was from the middle of the Valse in “A” from Swan Lake’s second act by Berlin Philharmonic under Rostropovich. They were three very short fragments but I do not need to listen it for a long time – I know what I need to hear. So, playing them and flipping the tubes I came to some realizations where I stay with my views on my tubes.

Mind you that I heard MF DSET with  my S2 driver in 440Hz horns crossed with line-level RL filter at 3200Hz electrically or 1000Hz acoustically.  In my comment about the S2 driver driven by YO186 has the most insane “coloratura” you need to understand that for 8 years I use for MF ONLY S2 driver and probably I already do not know/remember how other drivers sound, neither do I care about other drivers. So, what sound I got during my last DHT experiments feeding MF amp from the trails of my DHT tubes?

Many different sounds.

 I would intentionally do not comment about each single tube – I do not see the point.  However, some observations I would make. The fewer plate surface is the best – one plate is better than two plates and the smaller plate size creates cleaner and much more delicate sound. Do not forget that I do not care about power in this amp. Tone, balance of tone, tonal and contrast discrimination are more important than an absolute dynamic and frequency extension. The amplitude of nuances while having the natural balance is very key element. From this perspective the newer production of RE-604 (not the old globe shape) does have an advantage over any other tubes. The small 45 tubes are slightly thinner (that I can compensate but my Fundamentals channel) but still better then RE-604, even better balanced but not so sophisticated in tonal department. I can discuss how different tubes produce different sounds but they would be only different sounds. Playing with different channel volumes it is possible to make practically any tube to sound in any way, so, I do not find it very important. Some of the tube were just sound very primitively, including my super rare YO104 – I have a big hope for it but it turned out to be not interesting sounding tube ay all. The true interests came from YO186 – the more tubes I heard the more and more I returned back to my YO186 and realized how out of this world it is.

The YO186 is not about the sounds – the sounds I described in the posts above. The peculiarity of YO186 is about the result its Sound has – and this result is absolutely unique – no one tube that I have has it. The YO186 has a very distinctive manner to open sound and to return back to silence.  It is not the sounds itselves during the opening and returns that make the tube unique (even though those sound quite charismatic) but rather some sense of Lost Identity of those sounds. This “Lost Identity” effect is very special treat on the tube menu. We recognize some tone and we have a certain expectation how this tone might collapse or to changed in volume. But the YO186 has its own mind and when tone changes volume then YO186 not only presences sound as a continuation of the same tone but also introduces it as partially a new tone. It is not the pitch that changes but rather listening familiarity with the given pitch at different volume changes. This makes changing volume to be recognized not by what expressed but by some kind of strange side-wise implication – turning up listening awareness to WORK and to search the pass back to the realm of familiar sound.

In a few posts above I described the YO186 sound while the volume is changing to have similar behavior to the Helios 40/2 portrait lens with open diaphragm and I posted some examples. I think it was very good illustration but sonic impact has difference from photograph - it has longer duration. So, in continuity the YO186 crates some zone of “unsharpened attention”, sort of the realm of Lost Recognition Identity, where one does not feel if the heard sound was right or wrong. The Sound trembles somewhere in the middle of your feeling between to being in-tuned and un-turned,  arousing mind, mankind consciousness to wonder, to think, to be agitate, to be attentively-frantic. This is absolutely exceptional quality and I did not see any tube ever does it.

Then the bigger picture comes to the play – how to use all of it? Here is where I proud to say that I was a genius and I have discovered how to USE this YO186’s “Lost Identity” behavior in Macondo. The key is in VERY embracive but VERY PRECISE dosing of the “Lost Identity” and combining it with normal well-identifiable sound. With proper calibration of the identifiable and non-identifiable it is possible to moderate the level of how listening consciousness is “attacked” or the level of …  kindness at which that “non-identifiable” is presented. This makes any “non-identifiable” very welcoming and any “unknown” to be surprisingly intriguing and friendly. All together that is very different Sound that has completely different inner-mechanisms to impact listener’s mind. Dynamics, frequency extension, imaging, proper tonal balance and any other hi-fi tricks – Macondo can handle it. But among all of it there is something different: the YO186’s management of Identity, it’s administration of kindness to handle “less unknown” - this all is beyond the capacity of tubes I have but the YO186 (properly used) does it somehow, I find it extraordinary. Read my Macondo Page:

http://www.goodsoundclub.com/MacondoAcousticSystem.aspx

….and you might understand why the discovering of those “YO186 qualities” was not very far from where I was looking.  Perhaps I am the eternal slave of Thomas Mann’s version of “Imagined God”, the materialized reality where it is not well know or even important what was before: the idea or the fact.

I do not even know what kind illustration I might give to audio people as I did not have control over “Lost Identity” in audio before.  If you have seen the old Russian cartoons from 70s by Yuri Norshtein: “The Hedgehog in the Fog” then you might get a remote association to what YO186 does with Identity.

Unfortunately to fully “get” what might be got from Norshtein’s work it is not enough to watch that old Russian cartoon you need to live with this Hedgehog for dozen years, to grow up on it and to discover word with the metaphors of this cartoon in your head. Do you remember the Horse showing up like the Cheshire Cat while Hedgehog drifts down the river, just before Hedgehog met the Someone?  The Cheshire Cat was a Moron and it was just a fictional character. The metaphor of the Horse however is “so fucking real” that not the haunting mediums of unknown are scared but the physical tangibility of the Horse makes feel that something is Very Real. The very same is with sound of YO186: by persuading listening mind into doubts YO186makes mind to work imaginatively. As a result, if properly used, this Russian tube begins to act as a super-powerful metaphors generator, tossing around itself the radioactive imagination with the force of Polonium-210.

No other tubes I have can even remotely approach the YO186 duty. This tube is true a freak of nature and experiencing what I have with YO186 I very much close my books of interests about the DHT tubes.  Does the S2 driver driven by YO186 have the most insane “coloratura” imaginable? Yes, they do but the YO186 coloratura is way below and behind the visible spectra of the ordinary audio sensory perception.

floobydust wrote:

Romy,  I have a very large collection of 45 triodes.... many brands and varying internal construction. From my humble viewpoint, here's some personal findings on the various types: - Globe 45 tubes... these are the earliest, mostly from RCA. There are two basic internal constructions, one with all glass/wire supports and the later version with a mica insulator on top. In short, I don't like these. All of my samples (about 6) have higher hum level output compared to later ST-style types and all are more sensitive to mechanical vibration than ST-style as they lack all support sans the wires that hold the elements in place. They are pretty however. - ST-style glass. I have samples from RCA, Sylvania, Philco, Tung-Sol, National Union, General Electric, Ken-Rad... maybe another, but I can't think of any more off hand. What I've found is that the internal construction is more important than name branding... and that many manufacturers commonly sourced tubes from each other for economical reasons... i.e., the expense of settting up the line for any given type. Note: I actually have two new RCA branded 45 tubes in original boxes with matching date codes on the bases. Yet, they are completely different internal construction. One is made by RCA and the other by Sylvania... who knew. The same applies to other brands... they did source from each other frequently. In short, the brand name on the tube does NOT validate any authenticity of the manufacturer.  As for internal construction, my preferred one is actually made by Sylvania. Also note that they also made a few internal variations over the years. The better Sylvania 45 has a top mica which is circular, but two sides are cut flat and parallel to the anode. They also have 3 rivets holding the vertical metal rods (to the mica) for support and also have two wire braces that extend from the ends of the top mica to the glass to reduce mechanical sensitivity. Shown below a (rough) picture of the top. Note that later versions (probably cost reduction) eliminated the support rivets and the lateral bracing wires... I have some of these as well. While I don't really discern any sonic difference, I feel that the more robust internal construction will hold up better over time without becoming loose. I've found my preferred Sylvania versions marked commonly as Philco, Ken-Rad and the "solo" RCA. I also match them into pairs based on internal construction, (brand and date code second, but preferred) along with gain, hum balance, distortion and output power. Hope this helps. Oddly, the RCAs consistently have a higher hum level (on AC filaments) than most of the others.  Regards, KM

Does anyone else run the Sofia Electric 45 Mesh? What you think about it sound vs. the original 45 tubes?

I have found a truly wonderful illustration the YO186 sounds. In fact I was laughing when it came to me as the association was so strong that I have no idea how it did not come to me before.

I love strong cheeses, not just strong cheeses but the cheeses that according to some women smell like my Cat’s just used litter box. In the smelly cheeses the most beloved part the skin where all “heavy duty” fermentation and molds are concentrated…

So, if you are interested to learn how YO186 sounds then read everything that I wrote about this tube tone (you won’t find as much info anywhere else) and then buy a box of Epoisses Berthaut cheese.  Just one sniff of this French wonder will give you an instant reference about the YO186 sound. Both are unique, Idiosyncratic and absolutely exclusive. The YO186 is not as strong but it is “different” in the very same direction...

Romy the Cat wrote:

buy a box of Epoisses Berthaut cheese.  Just one sniff of this French wonder will give you an instant reference about the YO186 sound.

I was pointed at a site where people debating the subject of 2A3 vs. 45 vs. AD1 vs. RN604 vs. YO168.  Naturally they pointed out to my site, bringing my articles from this thread on the same subject as some kind of reference.

I read their comments and felt extremely uncomfortable that those people refer to my experience without any understanding the specifics of my application. This is what drive me nut on internet – the people are just a bunch of superficial buffoons why see death of the subject no further then 12 read word and 2 pictures.

The reality is that my experience with DHT is absolutely irrelevant to the most of the people. I use DHT in DSET application and my DHT tube works in very limited bandwidth, with very specific load and with no challenge of power or class A2 operation. My discovery about the best sound from my DHT shall be view ONLY from the perspective how it benefits my MF, or the channels the site in Macondo between this specific tweeter and this specific fundamental channels. T is highly possible that my finding about the sound the DHT tubes that I tried relevant to no one. The fact that I find that  YO168wols much more interring then any RN604, PX4 or 45 absolutely does not mean the a Moron driving his single Lowther or  Fostex from his full-range SET would come to the similar conclusions. What whatever it worth I would never use YO168 for a full range application, but this is a while other subject.

The point is: application, application and one more time application. He stupid Goggling and stupid quoting of others, without understanding what others are trying to do would not help. It never will, thankfully