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02-06-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
JANDL100


Forest of Dean, UK
Posts 71
Joined on 09-27-2007

Post #: 41
Post ID: 6563
Reply to: 6511
Arrived at last
 JANDL100 wrote:
 Romy the Cat wrote:
 JANDL100 wrote:
Yes, please - I would very much like copies of Nanut conducting Mahler 7 8 9 & 10 - that would be wonderful!   (I will put together some more, interesting CDRs for you too!).
Jerry,

I forgot to ask. I have sent to you quit a while back a pile of CD, including the Nanut’s late Mahler symphony. Did you have a chance to get/listen them?

The caT


Hi Romy - No, they have not arrived yet.   International post can be slow at the moment - I sent some CDs to Australia - they took 6 weeks to arrive!



Hi Romy - they've arrived at last!   Many thanks - some real eye-openers there.  I'd never heard Tossa Spivkovsky before - her Sibelius VC is tremendous.   The Barbirolli / VPO Brahms 4 is waaaay too slow for me though - I just cannot get into the music when it's played that way.   I do like some "slow" classics though - I love the way Celibidace slows a lot of music down - I heard a Celi concert of the Brahms Requiem live in London's Royal Festival Hall about 25 years ago that took about 85 minutes !! - absolutely mind-blowing, just unbelievably wonderful - sorry, but Barbi is not in that class, imo.

The Chung Saint-Saens sym 3 is excellent.  And the Messiaen L'Ascension on the same disc is really beautiful - I've found Messiaen a little difficult to get to grips with up til now - this may help a lot.  Fantastic music.

The Nanut Mahler I have had a brief listen to so far - hmmm ... the sound is a bit unpleasant, kind of harsh and forward, far from ideal in Mahler -  I'm going to have to play with some equalisation here, I think.

So, many thanks Romy!

By the way - have you had a chance to listen yet to the Shostakovich Piano Quintet played by the Trio di Torino that I sent.  Must admit that I think it is very special!



Jerry
02-06-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,674
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 42
Post ID: 6565
Reply to: 6563
Nanut, Mahler, Barbirolli and Brahms

 JANDL100 wrote:
The Barbirolli / VPO Brahms 4 is waaaay too slow for me though - I just cannot get into the music when it's played that way.   I do like some "slow" classics though - I love the way Celibidace slows a lot of music down - I heard a Celi concert of the Brahms Requiem live in London's Royal Festival Hall about 25 years ago that took about 85 minutes !! - absolutely mind-blowing, just unbelievably wonderful - sorry, but Barbi is not in that class, imo.

I disagree, this Brahms 4 does insultingly slow but it has own very own merit, When we hear it for a first time it feels like a slow move but eventually you might grow on it. it is not about an absolute tempt but how the rest of the play is mapped to the given selected tempo. Barbirolli/VPO does here absolutely phenomenal job and I pretty mu consider it as my “the best Brahms 4”. Well, perhaps not the best but the most interesting.  As it allow to look much deeper and much longer into nuances. It is like when we about to have sex with unattractive woman: we would like her take her cloth off and jump into the bad for actions. In a contrary, what the woman very attractive we would like to prolog the process of undressing and foreplay as long as possible as it gives to us an esthetic pleasure to observe what is going on. The same with Barbirolli playing this Brahms 4 during the festival… Though I do admit that I am big sucker for Barbirolli generally and he is my one of the most beloved conductors.

 JANDL100 wrote:
The Nanut Mahler I have had a brief listen to so far - hmmm ... the sound is a bit unpleasant, kind of harsh and forward, far from ideal in Mahler -  I'm going to have to play with some equalisation here, I think.

Yep, I do not like the rest of the Nanut Mahler at all. That Mahler 6 I think was a big accident….

 JANDL100 wrote:
By the way - have you had a chance to listen yet to the Shostakovich Piano Quintet played by the Trio di Torino that I sent.  Must admit that I think it is very special!

Yes, it was good; I was looking the original CD to buy but was not able to found it. I always buy the original CDs if I like the CDRs

The caT


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
02-06-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
JANDL100


Forest of Dean, UK
Posts 71
Joined on 09-27-2007

Post #: 43
Post ID: 6567
Reply to: 6565
Barbi/Brahms 4 and that Shosty PQ CD

OK! - I will listen to the Barbi/Brahms 4 some more!

 Romy the Cat wrote:


 JANDL100 wrote:
By the way - have you had a chance to listen yet to the Shostakovich Piano Quintet played by the Trio di Torino that I sent.  Must admit that I think it is very special!

Yes, it was good; I was looking the original CD to buy but was not able to found it. I always buy the original CDs if I like the CDRs

The caT


 You can find the DSCH CD here on eBay .... http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/CD-Shostakovich-Trio-di-Torino-Piano-Trio-no-1-2_W0QQitemZ200196281297QQihZ010QQcategoryZ43581QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


Jerry
02-21-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
JANDL100


Forest of Dean, UK
Posts 71
Joined on 09-27-2007

Post #: 44
Post ID: 6725
Reply to: 6565
Nanut - to be or not to be, that is the question!
 Romy the Cat wrote:

Yep, I do not like the rest of the Nanut Mahler at all. That Mahler 6 I think was a big accident….

The caT


Hmmm ... nor do I.

I don't think Nanut's superb Mahler 6 was an accident though.   Nanut's Bruckner 8 and much of his Beethoven symphonies are also wonderful (try the Beethoven 7th to start off with - Wow!!).

Accidents like that just don't happen.

I do agree that his inspiration was of variable quality, though.  I recently picked up on eBay (with great excitement!) a CD of Sibelius 2 with Nanut.   Really disappointing.  The guy did not have a clue.  :-(

Nonetheless, Nanut at his best is genuinely World Class, in my view.


Jerry
02-21-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,674
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 45
Post ID: 6728
Reply to: 6725
I am very compulsive in musicians’ consumption

Jerry,

Why you are so afraid of the notion of accidentally good performance – it always happens and I do not see in it any sign of negativism. Since your introduction, listening many of the Ljubliana recordings, I would  say  that  I rather dislike then like the Ljubliana orchestra. Still, at it is apparent in Mahler 6, they have their moments. You feel that Bruckner 8 and Beethoven 7 were also good, OK, they were for instance - anything else? :-) I do not think that it would be a lot more. I am sure  that someone who likes and specializes in Ljubliana and Nanut would knew that specific moments in the conductor and the orchestra live when they demonstrated better results. I am not intimately familiar with Slovak musical scene, so I get the things as they are.

I do not judge Nanut as “more World Class” of less “World Class”. Boston Philharmonic is a crappy semi-armature orchestra but the last Monday’s broadcast they demonstrated the last movement of  Bruckner 5  that would turn any orchestra in the world to be jealous … Those accidental successes do happen, nothing wrong with it but they would not make me to buy more BPO recordings.

I am very compulsive of musicians consumption and after listening quite a few of Nanut interpretation I would say that he is not a conductor whose work I would buy juts because it was conducted by Nanut. I might say that if I have an interest in a musical peace and somebody like Barbirolli or Scherchen  conducted the peace then I would buy their performances juts because they was Barbirolli or Scherchen  (just to name a few) . As good as Nanut is, I did not develop a  feeling that really need the Nanut’s take on specific music. I can buy “another recording”  of a work juts because it was made by Rafael Kubelik, or Koussevitzky, or Myung Whun Chung, or Mravinsky, or Crauss. I do not know if the Nanut’s interpretation migh be something that I would be specifically searching.

Rgs, Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
02-21-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
JANDL100


Forest of Dean, UK
Posts 71
Joined on 09-27-2007

Post #: 46
Post ID: 6729
Reply to: 6728
No, I don't believe in 'accidents'

Perhaps we mean different things by the word 'accident'.  For me, an accidently great piece of art would be if I painted things at random on a canvas and it 'accidentally' turned out to be identical to a masterpiece by Rembrandt.  Pure chance.   I could try again a billion times, and it would not happen again.

For me, Nanut has shown that he is a World Class conductor because he has repeated this 'accident' quite a few times - Bruckner 8, Mahler 6, Beethoven 7, Beethoven 3 and several more of the Beethoven symphonies.

That is not an 'accident' by my way of thinking.


Jerry
02-21-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,674
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 47
Post ID: 6731
Reply to: 6729
The nature of artistic accidents
I see, we just use meaning of “accident” in artistic expressiveness differently. I would certainly do not consider a Cat walking across a piano and playing with her paws the Moonlight Sonata as an “accident”. These types of accidents are just outside of my attention. I am more event-centric in my view of accidental performances. An accidental in Art to me is something that is outside of the pattern of predictability and repetitiveness. For instance a very mediocre piano player with very bad feeling f rhythm can sit and accidently very well balanced to play such a work as Schumann Toccata in C major. Or as very second-rate conductor with an orchestra of the high-school level can accidently to throw a performing event of extraordinary magnitude. It does happen sometimes and I do believe in those accidents. I do feel that some successes that Nanut and his orchestra had were more accidental then typical for them. Surely, no one would tell more defiantly then the people who specialize in Nanut, who head his “habitual” performances. From what I heard I do feel that Nanut Mahler 6 was a lucky accidents. I do not think it demeans Nanut in any way. it juts suggest that the rest of his recordings, Mahler for instance, is not as interesting as that Mahler 6.

Rgs, The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
06-20-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,674
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 48
Post ID: 7619
Reply to: 5630
The GREAT Bruckner 8

 JANDL100 wrote:
I'm glad the discs have arrived OK.  The Nanut Eroica is good - the Bruckner 8 is GREAT.  You must listen to it soon!

Jerry, I was intentionally slow with Nanut’s Bruckner 8. I of course have listened it now and multiple times… I do not know… I do not get it. The Nanut’s orchestra was GREAT with Mahler 6, which is more or less audio-music but for Bruckner it needed something else, something else that in my view they do not have. I generally am is not a huge fun of Bruckner 8 as it never was played to me with “greatness” … well, unil early this week. Try to found the Carl Schuricht leading Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra with Bruckner 8 (1890 Version). It is available on EMI on Angel and might be available on CD. This is a totally different level of Bruckner 8, in my view.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
06-21-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
JANDL100


Forest of Dean, UK
Posts 71
Joined on 09-27-2007

Post #: 49
Post ID: 7622
Reply to: 7619
Nanut and my other personal GREAT Bruckner 8 recordings
Schuricht?   Pah, no, not for me.    Mediocre, bland, boring - gong nowhere from nowhere.   Just my opinion  ;-)  
Yes, the VPO is an infinitely better 'Bruckner orchestra' than Nanut's Ljubliana group.   But the interpretation is what I listen for.   The phrasing, the dynamic flow - I find that Nanut here is like riding a musical roller-coaster - there is an ongoing continuity to the interpretaion that soars and swoops in one continuous motion. And the start of the 4th movement is just so exciting, for me Schuricht doesn't even come close.  the VPO sound heavy and lugubrious, where the Ljubliana forces just pick up the tempo and surge forward with it - Wonderful!!  I guess I'd rather hear Nanut playing Bruckner 8 on a penny whistle than Schuricht (or most other conductors - it's unfair to pick out Schuricht) with the VPO or any other 'great' orchestra.    I also like the quality of the recording on the Nanut disc - there's an unsophisticated earthiniess and solidity to the sound that captures the rich tonal colours so well and somehow matches up with Bruckner's character.   For me, the sophistication of Western recording techniques often loses out on the robust earthiness that works so well in Bruckner.

I really like Nanut's Bruckner 8th - you may have guessed that by now!   It would be a 'Desert Island disc" for me.   These things are subjective and personal - I'm quite comfortable that you don't think the same as me, but I am glad you have heard the Nanut and come to your own conclusions.

Other 'great' 8ths for me are Bohm on DG, Barenboim on Teldec, and (just about) Boulez on DG ... all the Bs!! ... also Wand with the NDR SO recorded in Lubeck Cathedral (the way Wand matches the phrasing to the long reverberation in the cathedral takes my breath away!) and probably also Rozhdestvensky / Melodiya - I just love the sound of that Soviet-era brass in Bruckner, a very refreshing change!

:-)


Jerry
06-21-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
JANDL100


Forest of Dean, UK
Posts 71
Joined on 09-27-2007

Post #: 50
Post ID: 7623
Reply to: 7622
Schuricht - a further comment
I know that many music lovers venerate Schuricht - a friend of mine in the USA does and he has shared many recordings with me.   I try to listen, but I find almost everything of his bland and uninteresting.  I think that says far more about ME than it does about Schuricht!


Jerry
06-21-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,674
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 51
Post ID: 7624
Reply to: 7623
Bruckner 8 & 5, the Abyssinians and the thirst.

Jerry,

I might intellectually understand what you are saying but my personal experiences protest. The Nanut's Bruckner 8 is kind of “overly articulate without course”. When I hear Nanut I feel like a short-hair Abyssinian Cat is trying to fuzz herself up in order to appear larger. The attempts are there but they do not result in my consequential listening experiences – I am loosing the “flow” of Bruckner 8 in the Nanut version.

I have to admit that I am not overly advanced Bruckner 8 listener. I for instance never heard it “live” and never heard a version that would sell the symphony for me. When I heard the Schuricht with Vienna it was like totally different experience – it was the sequence of events that suddenly made sense to me and they were flew once into another with wisdom, grace and meaning. Perhaps after make my mind poisoned with Schuricht I need to try Nanut again? Anyhow, as now I feel that Schuricht version is the only version that I have that actually make Bruckner 8 as exiting symphony, the one that I can listen and be sorry that I need to go and flip those damn records 3 times (here is what FM is so much better).

BTW, Jerry, shoot me again you address and I will send you an absolutely amassing Bruckner 5 by Zander, with Boston Philharmonic that I recorded in April. That Bruckner 5 does to me with the fifth the very same what Schuricht does to me with the Eighth – it has the succession of Brucknerian events that are so individually meaningful and so tightly connected that the entire 75 minutes of the symphony make themselves swallowable like a one seep of water – the great great Bruckner 5…

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
09-25-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
wapurobaka
Posts 1
Joined on 09-25-2009

Post #: 52
Post ID: 11824
Reply to: 7624
Has Nanut a recording of Marij Kogoj's opera "Crne maske" (Black masks)?
fiogf49gjkf0d
Hello, gentlemen.
Has Anton Nanut a recording of Marij Kogoj's opera "Črne maske" (Black masks)?

12-26-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
nanut
Posts 1
Joined on 12-26-2009

Post #: 53
Post ID: 12548
Reply to: 11824
Recording
fiogf49gjkf0d
He did record "Črne maske". But dont know if it was published. I can ask him.. (he is still working.. His last concert was this month in Japan - Tokyo. (And will be published on CD)
Page 3 of 3 (53 items) Select Pages:  « 1 2 3
   Target    Threads for related reading   Most recent post in related threads   Forum  Replies   Views   Started 
  »  New  Mahler VI - Barbirolli with Berlin..  Mahler VI - Barbirolli with Berlin...  Musical Discussions  Forum     0  11734  06-20-2004
  »  New  A Very Nice "Eroica"!..  Erotica is a "lucky" symphony....  Musical Discussions  Forum     1  14646  09-07-2009
  »  New  Bruckner Sinfonie Nr.8, B. Haitink, Concertgebow-Orcher..  Bruckner with no attenuation....  Musical Discussions  Forum     1  16198  10-23-2009
  »  New  How to play Bruckner Sound in Audio...  Being a pedagogical geniuses…...  Playback Listening  Forum     16  79382  06-15-2010
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