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12-19-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Bud
upper left crust united snakes
Posts 87
Joined on 07-07-2005

Post #: 41
Post ID: 17547
Reply to: 17546
A long life to both of you
fiogf49gjkf0d
This is a story I love. I have been equally fortunate to have a cat girl friend, once in my life. She is no longer anywhere but in my memory and I miss her touch and her concern....

Bud
02-13-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,534
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 42
Post ID: 17830
Reply to: 14568
How I shot myself in tail.
fiogf49gjkf0d
Last week a local audio guy come to my place to listed some music and I played to him my Wand’s Bruckner 4 in video room. With all “phenominality” of the performance I need to confess that sound was horrible. The guy did not complain, so I did not stress it as well. Later on I show to him some other video material and I found that I hardly understood a regular speech from the screen. So, what did I changed?

I did a change and I did not listen my video room since then. Last week I did it with my visitor, so I did yesterday, so I immensely hate the sound I’m getting got now. So, what did I changed? I change whole amplification.

The key was my laziness – I wanted to have a remote control for my video system, can you blame me” Formerly I used Yamaha C2 preamp with Yamaha B2 power amp. Adding 1.5dB on preamp’s tone control bass I did have OK sound (for video) driving my video speakers, whatever they are. Then I decided that since the amplification is crap anyhow then why I don’t I get identically bad consumer receiver and driver my video room with a comfortable remote consol?

Sounds reasonable, doesn’t it? So, this was what I did – bough off eBay $70 Sony stereo receiver, got rid of my high-endish Yamaha from 70s and put the contemporary crap in use. Holy shit, I never thought that it might be so bad!!! I understand that it is video and I do not need to have good sound but what I end up was beyond any acceptance. I can put the Yamaha B2 power amp back to the service but I can’t use the OPPO digital volume control – it kills sound faster then Ebola virus.

So, kids do not let kids to use those cheep consumer audio…

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
02-14-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
clarkjohnsen
Boston, MA, US
Posts 297
Joined on 06-02-2004

Post #: 43
Post ID: 17838
Reply to: 17830
Guy responds
fiogf49gjkf0d
Speaking as a local audio guy... yeah the sound was poor but who knows?... whether it was the dvd?... the electronics?... the day? Plus it was Room #2, so...

My policy, perhaps mistaken, in such a situation, is to enjoy the music.

As to the OPPO, I'd leave it full-open and the Yamaha set at the most usual listening level, then trim it down from there as necessary and use the OPPO for fading.

At home I enjoy having great video sound and use my big system.

clark
03-18-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,534
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 44
Post ID: 17982
Reply to: 17830
It is intolerable and it is time to roll back…
fiogf49gjkf0d

 Romy the Cat wrote:
Last week a local audio guy come to my place to listed some music and I played to him my Wand’s Bruckner 4 in video room. With all “phenominality” of the performance I need to confess that sound was horrible. The guy did not complain, so I did not stress it as well. Later on I show to him some other video material and I found that I hardly understood a regular speech from the screen. So, what did I changed?

I did a change and I did not listen my video room since then. Last week I did it with my visitor, so I did yesterday, so I immensely hate the sound I’m getting got now. So, what did I changed? I change whole amplification.

The key was my laziness – I wanted to have a remote control for my video system, can you blame me” Formerly I used Yamaha C2 preamp with Yamaha B2 power amp. Adding 1.5dB on preamp’s tone control bass I did have OK sound (for video) driving my video speakers, whatever they are. Then I decided that since the amplification is crap anyhow then why I don’t I get identically bad consumer receiver and driver my video room with a comfortable remote consol?

Sounds reasonable, doesn’t it? So, this was what I did – bough off eBay $70 Sony stereo receiver, got rid of my high-endish Yamaha from 70s and put the contemporary crap in use. Holy shit, I never thought that it might be so bad!!! I understand that it is video and I do not need to have good sound but what I end up was beyond any acceptance. I can put the Yamaha B2 power amp back to the service but I can’t use the OPPO digital volume control – it kills sound faster then Ebola virus.

So, kids do not let kids to use those cheep consumer audio…

This week on Thursday and Friday I had two “audio visitors” in my listening room. We did some listening and as it have become customary: they asked me to show something “interesting” or different in my Opera Room. BTW, for whatever reasons people do love my Opera room decor tremendously, so do I.

So, I was playing some “interesting” fragments to my visitor and was shocked how horrible the sound was. The consumer $70 worth receiver that I am using is rater at 100W but I clearly hear horrible clipping at I would say 90dB in bass. The whole sound was so flat and “in your face” that I made the decision to return back to my Yamaha B2 configuration. Even in context of low-demand video sound the crap that this consumer receiver out is too devastating. Now I need to look for preamp with properly implemented tone controls and remote, sucks!

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
03-19-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Serge


Russia
Posts 51
Joined on 09-21-2009

Post #: 45
Post ID: 17983
Reply to: 17982
Speaker mismatch I am sure
fiogf49gjkf0d
Romy consider that the engineers who did your Altecs in their worst nightmare could not imagine their lovely cinema speakers would be used with solid state amplifier which badly distorts on LOW power levels. It has 100 crappy watts and the first watt is the crappiest.



http://hifiblog.livejournal.com/
03-19-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,534
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 46
Post ID: 17984
Reply to: 17983
Beyond of anything acceptable.
fiogf49gjkf0d
 Serge wrote:
Romy consider that the engineers who did your Altecs in their worst nightmare could not imagine their lovely cinema speakers would be used with solid state amplifier which badly distorts on LOW power levels. It has 100 crappy watts and the first watt is the crappiest.

Sergey, I think that Altec engineers exactly meant their cinema speakers to be used with solid state amplifier and yes, all of the economical A/B amps do badly distort the low power levels. The Altec 19 bass mode do not do well with tube amp and they do need 100 and up of very high current power to drive them. Moreover, I did EQ the signal in my preamp in order to get anything resembling to “an interesting” bass. I think it is not about the topology of am but the quality of the given specific amp. It is so bad that I can’t not even start to describe it. When I turn news radio in my Opera room then I do not recognize the voices of the newscasters. The voices are so distorted and so mudded up that I even sometimes do not clearly understand what they say. It is just horrible horrible amp, I did not even knew that something like this ever exist.  I do not have any bad attitude toward table radio playback but I  this amp is way beyond of anything acceptable.


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
03-20-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,143
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 47
Post ID: 17986
Reply to: 17983
Operatic Doldrums
fiogf49gjkf0d
Serge, it is a common misconception that the old Altec cinema/PA systems were lovingly built and installed with tubes or high-fidelity "music playback" in mind.  In fact, they were meant to be LOUD and durable sound reinforcement tools, while maintaining an "acceptable" level of fidelity to the source.  As part of Altec's goals for as little maintenance as possible (and louder sound...), early tube-driven speaker systems were mostly retro-fitted with SS amps as soon as they became available, and/or the oldest drivers/speakers that could not take the extra power were re-built or replaced. You may regard it as ironic, but the early Altec SS "theater" amps were always among the most powerful available at any given point in time.

Of course, there are plenty of real Altec historians out there to tell us the way things were.  I am just saying that these speakers do, in fact, require a serious kick in the pants to make them attempt "FR".  Altec themselves well knew it, and if they ever worried about it or looked back to tubes, I never saw any signs of it.


Best regards,
Paul S
03-21-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,534
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 48
Post ID: 17987
Reply to: 17982
The things will be much better.
fiogf49gjkf0d

 Romy the Cat wrote:
This week on Thursday and Friday I had two “audio visitors” in my listening room. We did some listening and as it have become customary: they asked me to show something “interesting” or different in my Opera Room. BTW, for whatever reasons people do love my Opera room decor tremendously, so do I. So, I was playing some “interesting” fragments to my visitor and was shocked how horrible the sound was. The consumer $70 worth receiver that I am using is rater at 100W but I clearly hear horrible clipping at I would say 90dB in bass. The whole sound was so flat and “in your face” that I made the decision to return back to my Yamaha B2 configuration. Even in context of low-demand video sound the crap that this consumer receiver out is too devastating. Now I need to look for preamp with properly implemented tone controls and remote, sucks!
I took my second virgin B2 amp and performed on it the same Harakiri as I did with the B2 driving my HLF channel: put the proper I/O connectors, disconnected the all dilapidating and horribly sounding commutation boards, volume controls and anything else in this amp. It means if you look at the B2 amp:

http://www.goodsoundclub.com/PDF/YamahaB2_Circuit.PDF

… that the signal goes directly from input to the grid of the first transistor on the drive circuit board,  bypassing two board on the left. I kind of like this amp driving the Model 19 bass module while EQe. It does not give the proper bass but it gives not annoying bass for video room. Sure, during my fireplace sessions I do not do video and play 2-ch music and here is where the absence of the horrible Model 19 HF module really pays off but I do not think that I will consider other amplification after putting BS back to the business. Not that I feel that B2 is great but it is fine for what THAT room does and meant to do.

As today is Bach birthday my friend and I are planning some listening sessions in opera room – with fireplace and candle light… the whole Bach setting.  It is a bit scare that we have today 80s in Boston, so our fireplace plane for this weekend might be a bit questionable…. Still, I am sure that today I will put B2 back to drive my Cetla 91 and the things will be much better.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
05-21-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,534
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 49
Post ID: 18199
Reply to: 14568
Audio envy.
fiogf49gjkf0d
Stopped by at local audio friend this Sunday and watch some Brunner, Mahler and Wagner at his HT playback. He has integrated playback installation and video is played at his main system. I am not a fan of good quality of  video playback and feel that my cheep Cetla 91 goes good enough to play video but I have to admit that there WAS some added value in his demonstration. I was not impressed by 5-ch sound (am long-standing not supporter of it) and with a few other aspects but for all intended purposes as Wand’s brass blew up during Bruckner 4 then it was very clear that my friend playback presented different definition of gravitas than my Opera Room able to. I have experienced something like audio envy and I said to myself that I want it to be in my home like this.
 
At this point I do not know what I will be doing. I might try to drive Cetla 91 with a full-range Milq or multi-amp it with Milq and B2. For sure the key in it is that I have no midbass or upperbass channels in Cetla and I am not exactly willing to make them. So, I wonder if I might come up with some kind of solution that would be easy to implement and deliver a sufficient impact. I do think that if I drive Cetla’s MF from SET then it might be more fun, let see how it goes….


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
05-21-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,143
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 50
Post ID: 18200
Reply to: 18199
Easy
fiogf49gjkf0d
Sure the 5.1 is not by itself so great, but is it "better" to fight with that pre-existing HT-type system for opera?  Maybe just relax and present the opera playback +/- the way the "engineers" had it in mind when they laid down the tracks.  Anyway, more drivers make more sound, if that's what you're after.

Best regards,
Paul S
05-22-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,534
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 51
Post ID: 18201
Reply to: 18199
I was thinking about inter-modulations....
fiogf49gjkf0d
 Romy the Cat wrote:
Stopped by at local audio friend this Sunday and watch some Brunner, Mahler and Wagner at his HT playback. He has integrated playback installation and video is played at his main system. I am not a fan of good quality of  video playback and feel that my cheep Cetla 91 goes good enough to play video but I have to admit that there WAS some added value in his demonstration. I was not impressed by 5-ch sound (am long-standing not supporter of it) and with a few other aspects but for all intended purposes as Wand’s brass blew up during Bruckner 4 then it was very clear that my friend playback presented different definition of gravitas than my Opera Room able to. I have experienced something like audio envy and I said to myself that I want it to be in my home like this.
 
At this point I do not know what I will be doing. I might try to drive Cetla 91 with a full-range Milq or multi-amp it with Milq and B2. For sure the key in it is that I have no midbass or upperbass channels in Cetla and I am not exactly willing to make them. So, I wonder if I might come up with some kind of solution that would be easy to implement and deliver a sufficient impact. I do think that if I drive Cetla’s MF from SET then it might be more fun, let see how it goes….
I was thinking why the Brass crashes in my friend video system sounded to me so much more appealing then the bass crash in my opera room. I think the part of the answer (beside the “minor” fact that I use noise from ported 416 drivers but the friend of my use a pair of 50Hz straight horns) was the fact the friend of my heavily multiamping his playback. I think he has 4 channels and all of them multi-amped by SETs with active crossover before them.  As I told in my “how to play Bruckner in audio” thread I feel that multiamping is very critical for Bruckner as it minimizes intermodulations. I did not detect the advantage in my friend sound during soft notes but as the volume grew the different is noticeable.   I do not know how my B2 amp can handle intermodulations and how reactive the Cetla 91 is. I never paid too much attention to B2 sound full range. The temporary consumer grade amp that I was trying to substitute the B2 amplifier was horrible and I put B2 back to the service. Still I very much convinced that there are biter amps out there, particularly to drive compression drivers. I thought that it will not be too visible playing the compromised video sound. Well, apparently I was not correct. I got from my visit a phenomenal trophy – a stunningly interesting Wagner’s Ring production and I would like to make my video room to sound better for the ride over the Ring. It will be my first watching of entire Ring and I would like to make it “special”.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
10-31-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,534
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 52
Post ID: 18700
Reply to: 14568
A new feel of Opera Room.
fiogf49gjkf0d
Amy turned out to be a fireplace kitten and she spends a lot of time in our opera room, cooking her feet on fire and filing the room with marvelous purring. We were planning to do major Opera Room remodeling this winter but the resent Hurricane Sandy truly inspired me to expedite the remodeling ceremony. While Amy was locked in Portsmouth NH (our second temporary home) during the Hurricane I was locked in the Boston house working on Opera Room remodeling. In addition during the Hurricane we had two large trees fallen done and naturally we have a lot of firewood. So, we are building something like firewood shed and I am learning how to spit wood.

The reality is that the new Opera Room arrangement with Amy furniture turned out to be spectacular. We have large and superbly comfortable seating arrangement, we have even eating area in there, we have a wonderful large screen opportunity and we have very easy conversion of this room into fireplace experience. Surprisingly all the things that we had before but set in new configuration just “clicked” right. The room has that “library” feeling and for whatever reasons it become VERY pleasant to be in the room. I am still working on lighting and final touches but the idea has been already there and I like the result very much. Frankly there is something in that room that makes me to like it even more than my main listening room. For sure it is not sound but a special feeling of comfort, darkness and superb comport that the room has developed. The listening room is large, bright and wide open. The Opera Room, dark, cozy and well balanced in term of space. I do like it now as never before.

The room still has that Cetla 91 acoustic system. It does what it does, not too serious for serious music but at this point it is enough for our background music and movies. I am not working on making my Cetla 91 to sound more stimulating but instead learning how to sharpen the teeth of my chainsaw, what is the difference between maul or ax, and how to use Fiskars, Baileys, Oxheads  and Gransfors. We have a lot of wood to cut and I am not exactly the ax operating Jew…

Fallen_Tree.jpg

Also, a friend of my recalled his OPPO player and I need to find some kind of new DVD/BlueRay player to replace it.  OPPO did wonderful quality of video but the navigation of the dials was horrible.  I heard the new model that they are coming will be better. I might go for some consumer units from Sony, Samsung, Panasonic or alike as I a bit sick from horrible loading time and disk administration that more expensive units looks like offer.

Rgs,
Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
11-04-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
mats
Chicago
Posts 76
Joined on 09-18-2005

Post #: 53
Post ID: 18709
Reply to: 18700
The Met on CBS Sunday Morning
fiogf49gjkf0d

CBS had an interesting story this morning on the Live from the Met broadcasts.
To me, most fascinating was the revelation that the director used to work in sitcoms.
A very energetic man, making cuts between the 10 cameras.
His stated that his biggest worry was wether the actors would make their designated marks on the stage......
And I could only think, why must I be coerced of where to rest my gaze? 
1 camera, 2 microphones, is it not enough for the art to speak for itself?
Met chief Gelb spoke at length about how a revitalization had been imperative.  
I don't doubt that, but at what cost?  Mp3's put music in the hands of many......
Now, if they would sell a broadcast on the internet at 1.4Mbps, 
a technology demonstrated by KEXP, that could be a treat for the world!


Mats
11-04-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
clarkjohnsen
Boston, MA, US
Posts 297
Joined on 06-02-2004

Post #: 54
Post ID: 18710
Reply to: 18700
'Grats on the remodeled Opera Room
fiogf49gjkf0d
 I shall have to come see it. I even liked it before!
11-04-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
clarkjohnsen
Boston, MA, US
Posts 297
Joined on 06-02-2004

Post #: 55
Post ID: 18711
Reply to: 18709
Totally agree re: TV
fiogf49gjkf0d
For four decades I have detested that European video style (busy cameras, quick zooms, musically irrelevant shot framing). The BSO's Jordan Whitelaw pioneered the American style -- lots of long shots, and slow cuts. But now it appears that all the Americans have capitulated too. [Sigh]

clark
11-16-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,534
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 56
Post ID: 18743
Reply to: 14568
The Opera Room update.
fiogf49gjkf0d
The Opera Room is turning out to be a really bitch and I am very surprised how this room get transferred from a worthless place in the house to something that we really enjoy.  As the new furniture and new sitting arrangement is got developed during the last couple weeks my audio interest is kind of shift in that room. Now I would like to conceal audio elements and keep it as less nerdy as possible. Amy went for library-feel décor and she wants even to cover the walls with wooden panels – not bad idea at all considering that the room is very dark. The projector, screen, speakers, and amplification are there but in the new library-feel room they shell not as prominent.

I replaced the borrowed OPPO with Sony BDPS790. This Sony is consumer-level $250 player that played everything imaginable and looks and feels line a fart. I desired do not spend money for new generation of OPPO and sty for now with chip and convenient consumer player. That toy-like Sony navigate disk 10 times faster and more reliable. Sound-wise – I did not know, I do feel that OPPO was better but I am OK with what it is in the Opera Room…

The caT


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
03-20-2013 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,534
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 57
Post ID: 19104
Reply to: 14568
Getting in 5 or at least in 3 channels?
fiogf49gjkf0d
I need to say that I do consider the idea of 5.1, 7.1 or any other foolishnesses exists out there for video as… foolishness. It is not that I have my opinion and I agree with it but I have a whole array of well formulated reasons why I feel that 5 channels are very wrong.  However, lately I begin to think to put another channel into the game and use 3 front channels. I do not change my mind BUT I do come across more and more films where there is no 2ch sound truck and ONLY 5 channels. To watch the movie that has 5 channels only on a playback that do just right and left channels is not too pleasant. Some films are OK but some that have very extreme 5.1 processing sometime you can’t not hear the voices without center channel.  That is so bad. Not that I mind to put a center speaker in use but then I need 5ch decoder and third amplifier. I do much do not want to do it, not to mention that all 3ch amps are crap.

I wonder if exist something like integrated 5ch decoder with a single amp abort? Then I would be able to drive R+L direct as I do not and to run a crappy center channel from 5ch decoder…

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
03-20-2013 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,143
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 58
Post ID: 19106
Reply to: 19104
Why Keep Fighting It?
fiogf49gjkf0d
It's all about Program, right?  What are you mostly watching/listening to?  Make it easy on yourself. Look at the Marantz stuff, and do not expect top 2-channel sound quality.  Surely, there is comfortable spot between slavish acceptance of inferior sound and determined bucking The System. Why worry about the center speaker, etc., for this application?  No doubt, you can make the best of it, just like you did with the "pilot" speakers.

Best regards,
Paul S
03-20-2013 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
clarkjohnsen
Boston, MA, US
Posts 297
Joined on 06-02-2004

Post #: 59
Post ID: 19108
Reply to: 19104
Like yoursself...
fiogf49gjkf0d
...I prefer two channels and find them sufficient for all movies. Which means, I've never had trouble with center fill -- all dialog comes out fine on my OPPO(s), as it did with my Sony PS3.

Also good luck finding a decoder with preamp outs.

clark
03-20-2013 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,534
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 60
Post ID: 19109
Reply to: 19108
Another decoder?
fiogf49gjkf0d
You are missing the point, Clark. It is not about me find 2 channels sufficient or not but the exceeding amount of films that do not have both stereo and surround channel tracks but have ONLY 5.1 sound trucks. Sure if I have a choice then I go with regular stereo track but this option not even available.  My Blue Ray player has only stereo output and with only 5.1 tracks disks it does not outputs too intelligent sound. The OPPO that I had before I think did have an option to override any surround sound disks and mix it to 2 channels stereo but my current player has no such an option. A decoder with preamp output and HDMI input? That shall be interesting.


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
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  »  New  Altec Model 19 in Boston...  Cetla 91 circa 2018...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     61  393024  03-13-2010
  »  New  Romy's Multi-cell Horns Where Are They?..  Love The Look...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     2  12563  08-17-2013
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