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02-19-2006 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,540
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 1
Post ID: 2103
Reply to: 2103
Magico: Robert Harley’s upperbass mouth.

We, horn people, when we see as some kind of horn outsider begin to spill his foolishness about the horns inhalations, we always feel  that out territory was violated by a primitive brain who listen a box loudspeaker. The Absolute Sound, in its March issues, published Robert Harley call (it had to call this writing a review) to any freak who subscribes Robb Report and who dreams about an inch-larger penis to pay attention to the new Magico Ultimate loudspeakers. As the result the, ever wondering Mike Lavigne lost his sleep

http://www.goodsoundclub.com/TreeItem.aspx?postID=2013#2013

and Mike Framer is filing a legal procedure against Magico as Magico did not give him to “review” his loudspeaker.

http://www.goodsoundclub.com/TreeItem.aspx?postID=1957

What a shame for the poor Fremey: he did not warm his hands off the Magico speakers.  The Fremey have browsed horn sites and have collected some saleable quotes. Now the Mickey-Mouse Fremey was fully ready to write his new “horny” review. But the bad boy Baba Harley took the Magico’s peaces of reviewing cake almost from the Fremey’s mouse… Do not worry Mr. Fremey, Robert Harley did a very noble job fully substituting you – means writing a few thousands words about ….nothing.

In the past I have written a few comments blaming the folks who writhe in audio publications being ignorant, deceptive of juts simply stupid:

Martin-Logan, Myles Astor and the Silent Running Stupidity.
http://www.goodsoundclub.com/TreeItem.aspx?PostID=1459

Lamm LP2 phonostage: review of review.
http://www.goodsoundclub.com/TreeItem.aspx?PostID=708

“His name was Marc Mickelson he was a showgirl…”
http://www.goodsoundclub.com/TreeItem.aspx?PostID=760

In all those cases I did not partially cared about the products but rather about the very superficial and very primitive reference points that the reviewers used when they approaches to the given components. In the case of the Magico Ultimate Robert Harley unfortunately did the very much the same – he published a very primitive judgment about the product. Not positive or negative but juts primitive, or the judgment that is intellectually structured to be consumed by the Mike Lavignes and the similar to him audio cretins…

In the beginning the review Robert Harley was trying to convince a reader that a reader has some king of deadly illness and that him, Robert Harley, has a cure for it. What he failed to mention is that the deadly disease has name – the primitivism of expectations - and Robert Harley did his best to provide his “remedy” injecting into the article the  primal “Got the milk?” paradigm. The rest of the review Robert Harley reprinted the information from the Magico marketing brochure, informing the readers how shiny the speakers might be. Interestingly that when Magico guy

(I have mentioned him at: http://www.goodsoundclub.com/TreeItem.aspx?PostID=1922#1922)

described to me his speakers he made a number of mistakes and “simplifications” that were ironically word by word re-printed by Robert Harley I his article. So, what the review is: walking around the speakers, describing the “large WBT binding posts” and reprinting what a manufacture give you to reprint? Well, probably Robert also have listen those loudspeakers? Yes, he did, and the most horrible that Mr. Harley actually have writhen what he thinks about his listing assessment. Robert isolated his listening impressions into a separate section in order do not confuse them with his description of waling around a first loudspeaker that he ever have seen. If he seen more that one loudspeaker then he might point out what fundamental design problems that Magico loudspeakers have? Ok, let do not judge Mr. Harley so hard – the Magico were a first Robert Harley loudspeakers…


The listening session…The 2/3 of the Robert Harley’s listening description went, for whatever reasons, to describe someone else playback, the badly-informed description of the available crossovers… and then a few paragraphs of actual Sound. Well, was Mr. Robert Harley talking about Sound or about his Pavlovian reaction to THE SOUNDS?

I have to explain here something. The people who pluged into audio industry professionally (and partially those who deal with sale) are disabled to hear and to talk about Sound.

http://www.goodsoundclub.com/TreeItem.aspx?PostID=930

Those people do not recognize Sound “as is” but they rather recognize anything auditable as the sequence of precompiled listening criteria. Any of them have 10-20 pre-built for them judgments that they try to match up against what they hear.  I experimented with the industry people for years and I have reached a point when playing for them something and passing to them 1-2 keywords I can instigate a very precise and very predictable “pre-compiled” feedback from them. They are like the freaking computers form 70s – capable to accept a single word and then return a single word, nothing else.

In context of above, Robert Harley unfortunately did nothing else then being Robert Harley – to express a Pavlovian reflex of am industry sale professional. He passes 5 paragraphs of very generic comments that would be appreciated only if you embrace the Audiogon-level jargon. All that the review had were juts the  primitive judgments, primitive music material,  no description how the installations actually sounds and what kind idiosyncrasies it has, no facts check, no Robert Harley in the view, no thoughts of the owner of the system, no educational information for Robert Harley or for the readers. I have a feeling the Magico guy built the set of the loudspeakers for a guy in San Francisco, come up with a generic marketing release and then juts planed it in the hands of Robert Harley.

Everyone wins in this situation: Robert Harley, the Magico’s accountant, the magazine and the fools-customers who had guys to read the review to the end (I did not). However, there are two entries that gained nothing from the Robert Harley’s writing: the Magico Ultimate loudspeakers – they lost a chance to say about themselves, and the Magico’s designer – he did not learn about nither the Magico’s Sound not the Magico’s desng problems.

Rgs,
Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
02-20-2006 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
JLH
Indianapolis, IN U.S.A.
Posts 42
Joined on 07-20-2004

Post #: 2
Post ID: 2104
Reply to: 2103
Romy, you are too kind.
Foolishness is too soft a word to describe the unspeakable garbage the Magico Ultimate is. They have mis-matched impedance drivers, improperly sized horns for the drivers, and made everything from metal. Then they go on an attempt to brag that "We use the same CAD and simulation software that BMW uses to design their new cars". Who are they kidding? Like this is supposed to provide some kind of "rightness" to their Moronic design. The petty marketing lines they use throughout the entire Web site are laughable. In addition, if I had a welder that took 4 months to make just one of those metal horns, I would fire his ass and hire better help. Us horn lovers have been badly violated by a primitive brain with the Magico Ultimate. No doutb.
02-20-2006 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
drdna
San Francisco, California
Posts 498
Joined on 10-29-2005

Post #: 3
Post ID: 2105
Reply to: 2103
Words of wisdom from Robert Harley
I read the review of the Magico Ultimate and I have to say I was disgusted.  I am sure there are many self-proclaimed audiophiles who took the TAS trembling into their bathrooms like teenage boys with the newest issue of Playboy to drool over the concupiscent descriptions of how elaborate a process it is to make the speakers and how expensive and high-quality the parts are. 

There was very little indeed said about how the speakers sounded, but maybe that is not the point when you can spend $230,000 and have the designer come over to your house to set up the speakers personally.  I was personally embarrassed that the three pairs made are all located in California where I am.  Hopefully I am not implicated by geographic association.

However, I would still reserve judgment until I heard the speakers, not that I would ever spend anywhere near that amount, for which I could have live musicians come and play at my house every day for a few years. 

Still Robert Harley does end with a statement I can agree with: "Perhaps the low-power amplifier/high-sensitivity horn-loaded loudspeaker approach... is the true path towards creating the illusion of live music in our homes."

Adrian
02-20-2006 Post mapped to one branch of Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,540
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 4
Post ID: 2106
Reply to: 2104
Horns elementary school.

 JLH wrote:
Foolishness is too soft a word to describe the unspeakable garbage the Magico Ultimate is. They have mis-matched impedance drivers, improperly sized horns for the drivers, and made everything from metal. Then they go on an attempt to brag that "We use the same CAD and simulation software that BMW uses to design their new cars". Who are they kidding? Like this is supposed to provide some kind of "rightness" to their Moronic design. The petty marketing lines they use throughout the entire Web site are laughable. In addition, if I had a welder that took 4 months to make just one of those metal horns, I would fire his ass and hire better help. Us horn lovers have been badly violated by a primitive brain with the Magico Ultimate. No doutb.
John,

I would not call Magico Ultimate as unspeakable garbage as I never heard them. I would call them very ignorantly made loudspeakers by a builder who have very remote understanding of what he does. I would very much agree that US horn lovers have been badly violated by the primitive objectives of Magico and by the Robert Harley’s foolish commentaries.

I will leave aside the “simulation software that BMW uses” as it is too much “for kids”. I would also leave aside the fact that it was spent 4 months to make just one of those upper bass horns. ( Do you want to recall how long you made your upper bass horns) I presume that making those horns is not the guy full time job and therefore he is perfectly within his constitutional right to do it as long and he wish.  Should the people like Robert Harley writhe about 4 months as an evidence of complexity or should he to BS that the only two shops in US can make them? I do not think so, but it what the marketing whores do: ignite a cheap publicity around the faulty facts.

I also do not particularly blame the Magico for use of metal. If the aluminum is thick enough and if those horns are “hairy” finished then it might be fine. Do not forget the Magico use compression drivers where the back chamber (the really shaky part of the horns) is already implemented and therefore they could be less strong and have less mass then the horns that use cone drivers as the compression.

Ro review very briefly here are my issues with Magico design.

1) High order crossovers.  24dB and 48dB. This thing is a direct death for music and very symbolic and indicative that any single person who approaches the Magico is a barbarian in Sound and Music.  With 24dB and 48dB per octave those speakers are only capable to play heavy metal and black rap, which was exactly the music that the Magico guy had in his disposal in Vegas.

2) Time aliment.  Horns operate in phase domain and the times misaligned horns are waste of efforts.  The art of horns arrangement is to make them functional, naturally phase-coherent, user friendly and so on. The Magico guy juts piled up a bunch of the horns all together to make them photogenic and he has no remote comprehending of any further results. The analog crossovers that he provides have no time alignment provision and he believes the providing the digital crossover he helps the satiation. If the Robert Harley is so smart then instead of writing the idiocy in his review he should educate the ignorant Magico guy what kind of resolution he had a the stop-band at 48dB per octave. I am sure that playing the Pacific converter and $20K drivers within an octave slope at 8 bit resolution is a lot of fun but it is only of someone’s sick brain overwrites own ears…

3) 120Hz upperbass horn located in a middle of a room? Great, it is exactly where he lost the 20-25Hz but loosing the floor reinforcement. The decoupled straight upper bass never sound correct not mater what you do. It has too much HF overtones and too low LF harmonics.

4) The contamination of the horns exit by the baffle. This is a huge mistake and it produces very specific and very non-resolvable horrible sound. The exit of HF and MF horn should be clean form any sizable surfaces. Any vertical surfaces create an acoustic fog those bounds back to the listening space diluting everything. The Magico is the worst case of baffle contamination I even seen.

5) The Magico’s bass section is complete joke. I know the Aura drivers very well and to use them as Magico does requite to use a lot of LSD to appreciate THIS bass. Not to mention that to push Aura driver up to 120Hz is like asking 100 people to threw up a space station in order to kick it to an orbit.

I can go on but it is close to 1.30 am and the Magico is not really noble contestent to think about them seriously. Unfortunately, the problem is not with the Magico. Everyone does the things in audio within the scope of own reference points, limitation of own expertise, own sonic deafness and own musical evolvement. The Magico guy was not an exception and what he dos is a perfect depiction of his objectives. The real guilty party in that entire Magico circus is Robert Harley. A reviewing should be a quietly assurance of a product. Unfortunately Robert Harley signed off a very poor speaker.

I am sure Robert is happy, the Magico guy is happy but idea of using ears and brain in order to make horns to sound better got screwed and the Morons out there got the very negative example.

Rgs,
Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
02-20-2006 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,540
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 5
Post ID: 2107
Reply to: 2105
Wisdom from Robert Harley?
 drdna wrote:
Still Robert Harley does end with a statement I can agree with: "Perhaps the low-power amplifier/high-sensitivity horn-loaded loudspeaker approach... is the true path towards creating the illusion of live music in our homes."
Excuse me! This statement was said by a person who spent his entire life is audio, wrote books, zillion publications and proposed that he has some listening intelligence. (I personally believe that he, as any other industry freak, has none). Proposing that high sensitivety is the way to go is similar to a Cat who in the end of her life decided that vegetarians were wrong. Also, Robert Harley did not mean what he said and he have no actual real feel for his statement. It was juts an accidentally meaningful sequence of his words. Tomorrow he would be blabbing the opposite, writing up that that sound of 500W Mark Levonson would be “the best sound he ever heard”. In fact he did not heard yet the “the low-power amplifier/high-sensitivity horn-loaded loudspeaker approach”. All that he had heard was just the Magico and even they made him to collapse….

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
02-20-2006 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
guy sergeant
United Kingdom
Posts 258
Joined on 08-03-2004

Post #: 6
Post ID: 2108
Reply to: 2107
Re: puzzled onlooker
Why do you care what Robert Harley, TAS or the people from Magico have to say?
Why does it matter whether the reputation of horn loaded loudspeakers gets sullied in some way by these people? No manufacturer that I know of does it properly anyway. The only people that might are single minded individuals like yourself and unfortunately that isn't going to sell magazines which is all that the publishers of TAS and Stereophile are really interested in.

Whose interests are you seeking to protect by criticising this nonsense? Most music enthusiasts would not be able to afford speakers like these. Those that could, who might buy them on the strength of a review like this deserve what they get!

I don't see why you get so exercised by this sort of thing. Please explain.

best regards,

Guy
02-20-2006 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
hagtech


Hawaii
Posts 117
Joined on 02-13-2006

Post #: 7
Post ID: 2109
Reply to: 2108
Horn Flare Termination

Sorry to steer away from Harley, but have you Horn guys ever tried different flare terminations?  That is, the boundary condition where the mouth and room meet.  I once saw some interesting stuff done on large radio antennas that improved gain (efficiency) or perhaps bandwidth by adding "petals" to the edges of the horn.  Sort of made the mouth look like a daisy.  Perhaps it was to make the transition to low impedance air a little smoother.  Not sure if there are analogs with broadband impedance converters in microwave transmission lines.

Maybe a flare that turns a full 180 degree outward is good enough.  I don't know.  Maybe it is related to the lower cutoff frequency.  I believe you get some odd phase or impedance effects at that transition.  Such flare modifications (stolen from mother nature's flower design) might smooth this out.  If so, could eliminate some crossover components.

jh

02-20-2006 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,540
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 8
Post ID: 2110
Reply to: 2109
Flare Termination - The Area 51 of horns.

 hagtech wrote:
Sorry to steer away from Harley, but have you Horn guys ever tried different flare terminations?  That is, the boundary condition where the mouth and room meet.  I once saw some interesting stuff done on large radio antennas that improved gain (efficiency) or perhaps bandwidth by adding "petals" to the edges of the horn.  Sort of made the mouth look like a daisy.  Perhaps it was to make the transition to low impedance air a little smoother.  Not sure if there are analogs with broadband impedance converters in microwave transmission lines.

Maybe a flare that turns a full 180 degree outward is good enough.  I don't know.  Maybe it is related to the lower cutoff frequency.  I believe you get some odd phase or impedance effects at that transition.  Such flare modifications (stolen from mother nature's flower design) might smooth this out.  If so, could eliminate some crossover components.
Jim, I understand where are you coming from. I do not think that anymore, including me, would be able to answer this question defiantly. There are different schools of thinking and different implementations for the different profiles but none of them prove anything, rather confuse the subject. Even if we pretend that we took a horn, submerge it into a pool with clean water, slowly to pump ink through the horn’s bell and to observe the actual propagation of ink stream after it left the horn’s flare then we still would not have a generic rule and generic relationship between the flare termination, many other horns parameters and the actual Sound that we get out of this horn. What I feel that people do what they do (using practicality and purely intellectual considerations) and then try to justify afterfact that their flare termination does serve some benefits.

However the large baffles near Flare and parallel to flare are totally different story and their very negative ever is very much observable and predictably curable.

Rgs,
Romy


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
02-20-2006 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,540
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 9
Post ID: 2111
Reply to: 2108
It's not a first time when you puzzled.

 guy sergeant wrote:
Why do you care what Robert Harley, TAS or the people from Magico have to say?
Why does it matter whether the reputation of horn loaded loudspeakers gets sullied in some way by these people? No manufacturer that I know of does it properly anyway. The only people that might are single minded individuals like yourself and unfortunately that isn't going to sell magazines which is all that the publishers of TAS and Stereophile are really interested in.

Whose interests are you seeking to protect by criticising this nonsense? Most music enthusiasts would not be able to afford speakers like these. Those that could, who might buy them on the strength of a review like this deserve what they get!

I don't see why you get so exercised by this sort of thing. Please explain.
Because the respect to the subject.

It is not that I get exercised but disappointed. I like horns and I do not mind if others understood their advantages. However, the people like Magico do not do the BENEFICIAL HORNS but rather “viewed like horns” loudspeakers abracadabra. The generally ignorant and deaf horde of audio Morons perceives that abracadabra as the actual horn’s results. How much idiocy we have in horns if the “expert-reviewer”, like Robert Harley, listening the Magico abracadabra allows himself to say:  "I can't believe these are horns!”

In the end, if the single-minded individuals like myself would not voice our opinions pointed out to the misguided foolishness that is being sold to you then the amateur abracadabra like Magicos will become a horn loudspeaker, then the ignorant butchers like Bill Fitzmaurice would become the horn desinger-exprets and then the dirt that had to aborted before it’s birth - Wayne Parham would become a “horn manufacturer”.

Rgs,
Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
02-20-2006 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
guy sergeant
United Kingdom
Posts 258
Joined on 08-03-2004

Post #: 10
Post ID: 2112
Reply to: 2111
Re: Not puzzled perhaps, more bemused
So Bill Fitzmaurice and Wayne Parham are perceived by some as experts. So what? How does that impact on what you do?   There are many less than competent amplifier designer/manufacturers around aswell. It will always be that way.

When Dr Atkins' diet became popular a few years back other nutritionists attacked his work. I could understand that. He was a real threat to their credibility. The widespread acceptance of his (suspect) approach probably damaged their career prospects (for a while) and to some extent their earning potential.

This doesn't constitute such a threat to you, your livelihood or for that matter the laws of physics which apply to horn loudspeaker design. Unlike the dieting/nutrition industry millions of dollars are not at stake. This is just another flashy, meaningless exercise which will be forgotten in 12 months time. Of course the audio press lap it up. They like a story and they need circulation. You should understand how it works by now and should care less. 

best regards,

Guy 
02-20-2006 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,540
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 11
Post ID: 2113
Reply to: 2112
Send invoice to yourself, it might help to get grip.

 guy sergeant wrote:
So Bill Fitzmaurice and Wayne Parham are perceived by some as experts. So what? How does that impact on what you do?   There are many less than competent amplifier designer/manufacturers around aswell. It will always be that way.

When Dr Atkins' diet became popular a few years back other nutritionists attacked his work. I could understand that. He was a real threat to their credibility. The widespread acceptance of his (suspect) approach probably damaged their career prospects (for a while) and to some extent their earning potential.

This doesn't constitute such a threat to you, your livelihood or for that matter the laws of physics which apply to horn loudspeaker design. Unlike the dieting/nutrition industry millions of dollars are not at stake. This is just another flashy, meaningless exercise which will be forgotten in 12 months time. Of course the audio press lap it up. They like a story and they need circulation. You should understand how it works by now and should care less.  
I think you take it form totally different, and form my point of view wrong, perspective. Instead of looking at my motivations and estimate your adoration to Bill Fitzmaurice vs. Dr Atkins I would suggest you to use data from this site for self-education. It is what this site is all about. I do not know who are right: the nutritionists or the philatelists but what I do know that in the today strange world this obscure site unfortunately is the only known to me place where pubic thinking about horns do actually make sense and actually do relates to better Sound and have a respect to beter Sound. I think the horns deserve better then juts this site.  Of course it is all about the self-imaging but if you do leave the egos aside then you will see the actual respect to the subject and the genuine respect  to  Sound that usually stay the end of all those conversations. Yes, for some people, an abstract love to “better sound” is not necessary relates to the “millions of dollars at stake”. It looks like you never understand Truth if it could not be invoiced for. Probably I shell start to send invoices, or perhaps you should start to post on the subject of the Magico design….

Rgs,
The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
02-20-2006 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
hagtech


Hawaii
Posts 117
Joined on 02-13-2006

Post #: 12
Post ID: 2114
Reply to: 2112
Re: Not puzzled perhaps, more bemused
"Why do you care what Robert Harley, TAS or the people from Magico have to say?"

I don't understand why you would even question this.  It appears to me to be nothing more that a pursuit of something incredibly simple.  The truth!  Maybe the circulation of these posts isn't on the level of TAS, but that shouldn't make them any less worthwhile.  Isn't the desire to expose deception and dishonesty a noble cause? 

I applaud the effort.  Truth is like a virus that spreads.  Look at the impact of blogs on the news media.  Perhaps you understand how the world turns better than others, but why not try and reach out to those getting sucked into the Harley spin?  Why shut up and take it?  Why let them get away with it?  The voice of truth in the wilderness is louder than you may think.

"This doesn't constitute such a threat to you, your livelihood"

I'm sorry, but this is a really ego-centric comment.   Have you no concern for others?  Following this logic, then this forum should not even exist. 

On another note, I've been following the Fitzmaurice articles in audioXpress for years.  It seems he has only one criteria for a speaker.  SPL.  Some of the stuff he does is really scary.  But then, I've never heard one of them.

jh
02-20-2006 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
guy sergeant
United Kingdom
Posts 258
Joined on 08-03-2004

Post #: 13
Post ID: 2115
Reply to: 2114
Re: The truth will never be found where there is advertising
You both misunderstand my intentions. I do read what is on this site. I enjoy and appreciate the expertise of its contributors. It is an oasis of good principles, correct motivation and an absence of commercialism. All of these things are precious and rare.

I stopped paying any attention to the ravings of magazines like TAS and Stereophile (and our English equivalents) many years ago. I'm just surprised when I encounter people who take what they say seriously enough to become annoyed by it. Maybe TAS and Stereophile are still considered to be important by people in the U.S. They aren't here.

Please don't lecture me on the sanctity of truth. I think I know what truth is and haven't found it within the pages of any audio magazine I've read in recent years. They're all driven almost entirely by the imperative of maintaining their circulation while maximising their advertising revenue.

While that situation exists, accurate and honest jounalism will be scarce. It's the same in car magazines, boat magazines, computer magazines etc. He who pays the piper calls the tune...

best regards,

Guy
02-21-2006 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Wojtek
Pinckney (MI), United States
Posts 158
Joined on 09-01-2005

Post #: 14
Post ID: 2116
Reply to: 2115
Re: The truth will never be found where there is advertising
Completely agree with Guy.That's why I don't watch sport in TV anymore and read any audio /hobby magazines neither. I could never understand why Roman again and again bothers with this. Is this because where is he coming from ( a dinner with a frustrated High End manufacturer or chat with all those Grand Slam owners. )Buying $200k speaker is like driving a Hummer in the City. Only in America experience.

It still comes down to the objectives.(Thanks Cat for making that clear to me) Maybe they (Magico) were created to excell in Metal and Black Rap? As I understand from reading in this site "Correct Horns" play popular material (rock ,rap included) like shit. Is this really contradictory? Can't I have the best of both worlds ? In an Audio Shows I attended only few of the vendors was playing classical music and while they did their rooms were empty.Really, why bother?

best regards,
Wojtek
02-21-2006 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,540
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 15
Post ID: 2117
Reply to: 2114
Fitzmaurice is dead and not only him.

 hagtech wrote:
On another note, I've been following the Fitzmaurice articles in audioXpress for years.  It seems he has only one criteria for a speaker.  SPL.  Some of the stuff he does is really scary.  But then, I've never heard one of them.
Jim,
 
this not only his problem, although he personally has many other problems. Pretty much whatever knowledge exist about horns describes the propagation of pressures within compression drivers and within horns but unfortunately it does not describe the infliction those pressures have to Sound. Fitzmaurice is not good illustration. He is dead, his horns are dead and he is the best illustration of the “angry ill-bred engineering”. His horns are result of "a Moron heard some noise about the subject" but has no cultural or creative skills to interrupt the noise in a meaningful considerate. There are quite a few people out there who employ the trivial semi-relevant semantic, designing horns via $19.95 programs and see horns only as the primitive pressure transformer. The realty of a sound reproducing machine is more complex then that. Seeing a horn installations only as SPL-dispatching devise is like seeing an amplifier only as a propagation of currents across wires...

Rgs,
The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
02-21-2006 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Gregm
Greece
Posts 91
Joined on 02-16-2005

Post #: 16
Post ID: 2119
Reply to: 2115
Mags aren't about "truth" -- they're about entertainment
...IMO, at least. I strongly believe the name of the publication game is entertainment and the vehicle is audio-visual hardware "news" & "opinion" & pictures.
 guy sergeant wrote:
I stopped paying any attention to the ravings of magazines like TAS and Stereophile (and our English equivalents) many years ago. I'm just surprised when I encounter people who take what they say seriously enough to become annoyed by it. Maybe TAS and Stereophile are still considered to be important by people in the U.S. They aren't here.
Guy
Amazingly, some people are influenced. They refer to what X golden-ear or Y guru reviewer has to say as important, ground-breaking news... Uncanny!

I suspect that, sometimes, such persons' IQ is far superior to their EQ in matters audio... (but am no specialist in the matter). This probably ties in with what many people observe as signs of "moronity"...Smile


Treading on a thin line, I'd like to put forth an impression I have about the point where one "(stops)...paying attention to the ravings of magazines like TAS and Stereophile...":
I believe reaching such a level requires maturity, thorough understanding of self, and knowledge of things (as opposed to having information about things).
Of course I'm not asserting this is limited to "audio" or that it relates ONLY to disregarding TAS & other mags, etc -- just that these are indications, even if trivial in the larger scheme of things.

Even in audio, the state of confusion (confusing fact with emotion), of not understanding -- or resisting knowledge -- is an indication of people who have not yet reached a point of deeper learning about life (and no doubt I'm one of these, as it were). This state of things shows even in the simple way of how some are influenced by, say, mags... or many other things... for example how good/bad/indifferent/~ reproduced music can sound (let alone how it should).
End of philosophy.
02-21-2006 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,540
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 17
Post ID: 2120
Reply to: 2119
Audio reviews portray a lot.

 Gregm wrote:
Amazingly, some people are influenced. They refer to what X golden-ear or Y guru reviewer has to say as important, ground-breaking news... Uncanny!
Weeeeeeeeeell, not realy. I feel that the reviews influence everyone. The question is what to pay attention when a review is published.

It is not secret that any review before accepted for publishing is viewed and signed off by a manufacturer. It is not that the manufacturer necessary writhe the reviews (although I know some event when this did actual happen) but rather a manufacturers reviews that the basic presented facts are correct and that the basic messages are passed correctly.

Let to leave along the Robert Harley’s comment how the system sounded. Look at the part of the Robert writing what was clearly inspired by the Magico marketing presentation itself. 

What Robert Harley said describing the Magico speaker is EXECLY what is in a head of the Magico designer. The realty is that was nothing in that review that indicated any reasoning for Magico impetrations, any sound related motivations or any demonstration of design intelligence or intention. The review indicates that the only motivation to make the speakers  was a feeling that the idiots-US-consumers will be thrilled with any speakers that reminds the BMW’s body, that cost $200K and inspired Robert Harley to have a RMO (a Reviewer’s Multiple Orgasm) while he was listening them. It’s it. There is apparently nothing behind the Magico and there was nothing else that a Magico guy is able to say about his speakers. The Harley’s review is very clearly portrays it.

So, do you feel that reviews are not influential? I disagree. They are, if one knows what to pay attention, are a wonderful tool to learn what does not deserved to be heard. Am I mistaken? Perhaps. Visit the Magico guy and talk with him about his speakers. Then you will learn WHY Harley pulled out if his ass words trying to say SOMETHING about the Magico.

Am I mistaken? Well, as usually….

Rgs,
Romy


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
02-23-2006 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Gregm
Greece
Posts 91
Joined on 02-16-2005

Post #: 18
Post ID: 2125
Reply to: 2120
Re: Audio reviews portray a lot.
 Romy the Cat wrote:

 Gregm wrote:
Amazingly, some people are influenced. They refer to what X golden-ear or Y guru reviewer has to say as important, ground-breaking news... Uncanny!

(...) So, do you feel that reviews are not influential? I disagree.

Actually, I was saying the opposite -- i.e. that reviews are influential. My "uncanny" referred to what some people seem to single out as significant (and share RMOSmile) -- which often seems incidental. A nice example being the reference to BMW's cad software...
 Romy the Cat wrote:

They (reviews) are, if one knows what to pay attention, a wonderful tool to learn what does not deserved to be heard.
(my emphasis) IMO that's a very good point -- it's also a good excercise: in any review, separating the essential from the incidental.
10-26-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,540
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 19
Post ID: 12059
Reply to: 2103
The ordinary suspects’ white noise.
fiogf49gjkf0d

I do not receive TAS but apparently they published some new BS propaganda about Magico Ultimate.  I made an appropriate comment with a highly predicable noise from the ordinary suspects.

http://www.avguide.com/forums/magico-ultimate-ii-horn-loudspeaker-following-dream-tom-martin

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
10-27-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Stitch


Behind The Sun
Posts 226
Joined on 01-15-2009

Post #: 20
Post ID: 12064
Reply to: 12059
Please: MERCY
fiogf49gjkf0d
Uhhh, honestly, I write it very seldom, but reading AV-Guide can create eye cancer.
For the regular audiophile only super high priced units are the road to sonic "heaven" (whatever it is)


Kind Regards
Stitch
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