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  »  New  Jonathan Valin shell be an Alcatraz reviewer...  The world is bad...  Audio News Forum     4  40889  08-23-2007
01-26-2013 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
RobertG63
Posts 1
Joined on 01-27-2013

Post #: 1
Post ID: 18940
Reply to: 18940
"Not So Sweet Spot" /Absolute Sound, Jonathan Valin Comments etc
fiogf49gjkf0d
    It was brought to my attention by a fellow member at our audio society meeting today that there have been some postings here regarding my letter to the editor in this month's Absolute Sound. I wont restate the total contents of my letter as they are in the current magazine for all to see. However, I was unaware until I received the magazine that Mr Valin was the person who I was "kicked out of my seat" for, and also that Mr Harley would have him respond to my letter. Initially, I wrote Mr Wilson & Mr Harley after returning from the show as I was still thinking about the event and wondering why I was treated so rudely at a consumer oriented show...and, how to stop this behavior as it is becoming a standard practice. Mr Harley has been responsive to me in the past and I have always respected that he takes the time to respond to a subscriber in a reasoned and courteous manner. He advised me he wished to print my letter and was aware of this problem. OK by me. Mr Wilson I do not know but he seems to have a good personal reputation and I have always admired his line of speakers.  Then I get the magazine and see some new information and statements that cause me more concern. I didnt anticipate this event would continue but a new commentator joined the discussion.

I do have several points of contention regarding Mr Valin's comments. First, it is not my recollection that he ever spoke to me or tried to get me to sit back down after I had been asked in a rude and insulting manner to give up my seat when Mr Valin entered the room and was "working". If Mr Valin did make a comment to me I did not hear it, but as an audiophile my hearing is quite good. .However, after reading some other items on your site (i.e. Valin/Nordost incident) regarding Mr Valin I will simply ask readers to form their own conclusion based on his past behavior(s)/practices regarding the accuracy of his comments. 

His characterization of events seems to reflect a writers propensity for exaggeration and creating a more colorful incident. He stated that I "stormed out of the room" and "was having none of it" (referring I assume to his humble/gracious nature when making this unheard statement). As a disabled veteran who was using a cane and carrying a 20 pound bag of literature/cd's/vinyl with my free hand I had enough trouble just standing up and leaving, let alone "storming" out as he has described my behavior. I was however followed out of the room by a lady who did ask me to return (not the humble/gracious Mr Valin) and I told her that their behavior/attitude and false contrition did not make me wish to have any further association with them or their products.  However, Mr Valin wasn't totally inaccurate in his prose. As he stated I did freely express my disgust with the individual who treated me so rudely and I made sure everyone in the room heard my points: You don't treat potential customers like this and expect them to buy your products.  Further, I also consider myself as "working" as I was just starting to listen critically, and take notes in my notebook for a subsequent report that I would brief to members of our society on return. But why should I need to justify being in my seat at consumer audio show that cost me $1500 in total to attend? I waited for the seat to become vacant before occupying it. Mr Valid did not. Is this normal for him? I really have no idea.

The so called "professional/reps" in that room made me feel very unwelcome by their behavior (words, inflection and body language).  Mr Wilson's subsequent letter to me in response to my written complaint regarding this incident stated they were aware of the event but "none of his employees were involved". Great! They are innocent silent partners. Noted. See no evil, speak no evil etc. This was also correctly pointed out by Mr Harley. Wilson has been found "not guilty" your honor by the editor. Duly noted and understood your honor.  Mr Valin's final conclusion about "cooler heads" strikes me as ridiculous and self serving.  Any person deserves to be treated with dignity and respect. I was not. If the event happened again, I doubt I would behave any differently. I did not respond with any profanity or violence. My cane was not raised in my hot headed angry pre-storm rage to assault the moronic reps. However, those who wish to turn the other cheek are welcome to let people walk on them and it seems there is no shortage of people at audio shows who will do just that. Please don't try it on me again! And dont expect me to embrace Wilson products or any of their associates in the near future. I guess I'm just not that Christian (if that is the right perspective). I doubt they even discussed the matter with the other associates. If they did, they certainly didnt advise me to that effect. So while my purpose in writing Mr Wilson & Mr Harley has been partially achieved by his publication of the letter, I still dont feel the matter was correctly resolved. Nor will Mr Valin be my Facebook friend or BFF.You see, the tragedy has unintended consequences.

I will read Mr Valin's reviews with a new sense of skepticism in view of his comments. Prior to joining this site today I had no information regarding him. The information on this site is all new to me, but not exactly flattering to him from what I have read. Well I guess I could be in for some bashing also. A retired Army officer turning pacifist at RMAF. How sad. Im sorry. Im pathetic. But Im not a reviewers doormat. 

Finally, of course, these are my personal comments and have nothing to do with our audio society functions nor is it my intent to slander anyone. These dealers/manufacturers need to improve their people skills and remember who actually BUYS their products at MSRP from a dealer no less!Reviewers can use their press days, evenings, locked door showings, press packs, loaner products, special discounts, factory tours, and freebies to their hearts content.  And if they still cant find a way to evaluate a product after all of the above then they can wait in line like the rest of us. OK?

 Robert Guerin  Lt  Colonel, US Army (R) Co Founder, River City Audio Society of San Antonio, Texas
01-26-2013 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
zztop7
Edmonds, WA
Posts 40
Joined on 11-02-2012

Post #: 2
Post ID: 18941
Reply to: 18940
Well put
fiogf49gjkf0d
Great First Post.
Respectfully,
ZZ
01-27-2013 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Stitch


Behind The Sun
Posts 226
Joined on 01-15-2009

Post #: 3
Post ID: 18942
Reply to: 18941
The truth
fiogf49gjkf0d
That is the way the System works. Not the customer is the goal (he is only the tool who brings the money), the reviewer is the one to go for. The reviewer guarantees the success of a product (in general). Valin for example is known to be among the most corrupt guys in that Industry, but his ability to write keeps him in business. And the other guys aren't much better. The customer (you) gets exactly what he deserves.
My last visit at a High End Show was in a room where lots of people refused to leave, the sound was really, really good. But it was presented from some new, imported brands.

My Buddy: Hey Stitch, that amp is so fantastic, I never heard anything which comes close. Superb, absolutely superb.

Stitch: Yes. Are you going to buy it???
Buddy: No. I will wait for the first reviews.
Stitch: Why? You listened to it for more than 1h and it is the way you said.
Buddy: Yes, But I want to know what the reviewers think about......


The customers don't trust their own ears, opinion and the Manufacturers know that. The customer is no force here.

Happy Listening :-)



Kind Regards
Stitch
01-28-2013 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,486
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 4
Post ID: 18952
Reply to: 18940
A good industry person is dead industry person.
fiogf49gjkf0d

Robert, sorry but you yourself in the “doormatish” position. You see, many audio people elevate the individuals who write for audio publication to some kind of shrine level and attribute to them some kind of special qualities, expecting them to be special and express “special” judgment regarding audio subjects. The reality is that even through in the industry there are some few individuals who are in position of prominence for right reasons but unfortunately absolutely dominating majority of audio public figures, particularly the writers, are incredible idiots.

Regardless who you might be, your qualifications, knowledge, ethics or just plan metal capacity, if you knock in the door of any audio publication, promise to protect and preserve the industry status quo then you will instantly become the Board Certified Audio Reviewer and if you in beginning of your reviewing career will not steal too much then you very soon get some popularity among manufacturers and will regularly receive gear from them to write your “reviews”.  You understand that in this environment the individuals who end up writing their obligatory “reviewing” articles about audio are the bottom of the barrel, literally and figuratively.

Mr. Valin got some traction in industry as spineless leech and he has no respect in the industry.  I did know some manufacturers whose products he reviews very positively   and you will not believe the level of disrespect and contempt they expressed about him. However, this is a food chain and this is how marketing works – somebody needs to step up to a microphone and issue the order “Fetch” for the public, so here is the junk like Valin play their indispensable role.

Now, why you suddenly, after witnessing that the guy is asshole will “read Mr. Valin's reviews with a new sense of skepticism”? Did you with your judgment of audio did not feel that Mr. Valin’s thinking about audio worth no mode that used toilet paper? If Mr. Valin's did not insulated you at the show then you would continue to treat his stupid writing with respect and attention?

What I am saying is that regardless how disrespectful Valin behaved to you or to anybody else it is not something that defines his dim-witted value.  The Valin-guy is much more pathetic then just to be hated for his CES behavior. You feel that many other industry pimps who invested Vegas during CES are much better? How many stores you want to hear? A good industry person is dead industry person. As soon you embrace this simple postulate the less you will experience disappointment among the audio industry  freaks.

Rgs,
Romy The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
01-29-2013 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,486
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 5
Post ID: 18953
Reply to: 18952
People you are so full of it.
fiogf49gjkf0d

After posting last night the post above I got a few emails from the people asking me why I am so angry and why I feel that industry people are valuable only in dead form. Those unfortunate audio people with their questions are so dull. I have expressed the very same position for years and years at my site, and at numerous sites before that but it looks like the expectations of primitivism is too strong among audio people and they are not able see further then the pathetic horizon of own fear.

So, very briefly I would run over something that was expressed many many time at this site.

What is audio, at least the audio that I care. A person, an individual person, has some specific objectives how s/he wants his playback to sound. The person creates motions, assemble a playback installation in accordance with his/her objectives and listener via this playback whatever he feel satisfies him/her. Audio is superbly individualistic ceremony where manipulations by different audio methods a person creates more favorable condition for own satisfaction. Now, tell me how the presence of Valins or any another products pimps has to do anything with audio. Yes, there are audio products and people who practice my version of audio do engage those audio products. However, what did you see in thinking of any audio reviewer information how this or that product my serve person needs? They are impotent to think about it as they are not true audio practitioners as the products they review are not made for true audio practice but made explicitly for the reviews-centric industry be able to sell crap to senseless crowd.

Sure there are manufactures with their potency to furnish audio people with their needs.  However, the manufactures or today make invest approximately 5% of own ability to make products to be use in Real Audio, the rest is consumed in the furnace of industry’s audio indifference and cynicism. Where in today industry did you see a relationship with audio maker and audio consumer where audio  consumer expose to the maker his own requirement and get audio product  that specifics serves this requirement? Where all that junk: audio publications, reviewers, editors, impotent makers, representatives, dealers, manufactures public cronies positioned to serve a need of a person who have specific audio objective? They are worthless and they are as good as dead. If tomorrow some kind or proverbial neutrino bomb blow up and eradicate any single asshole in Audio Industry then it will be very positive event for all people who have interest in audio as a creative and truly stimulating environment. Can you imagine audio without brand names, without money, without frustrations and disappointments, audio not as stand alone “hobby” that an idiot practice in his basement or in “dedicated room” but as organic form of life exploration? Can you imagine audio where each of your farts does not require you to go online and look for “sympathy” from other audio sufferers, aka industry victim?

The answer is very simple – proverbially kill each and single audio industry person who do not serve YOUR need. Not the contrived artificial need that the industry implanted in you but your own natural need. If you look hostelry in yourself then you will see that there is no single internal human need in you that audio industry and the industry participants’ could serve.

Robert, I have no problem to give my sweat spot sit at a trade show to anybody. Primary due to respect to the fact that I am just hang around there leisurely but the  reviewers are working and kind of on clock. However, if right outside the room the very same reviewer or the manufacture who hosted the room would slowly run over by 50 ton asphalt roller then I would not consider that it was a tragic event. 

From another perspective those people need to be informer about own worthless. Did your colleges Mr. Colonel of US Army, teach you to hold your ground? I think if you very publicly send Mr. Valin to go fuck himself or even kick him out of that room then it would be much more beneficial then what you do now. Pretend that you have CES with 150 rooms and in all of them there is own Robert Guerin who tosses Mr. Valin out of that room as it was some kind of deadly mold. As the jerk learn about own insignificance he will be gone. Now the most complicate ploy will unfold - Mr. Guerin, the audio practitioner will need to learn how to live without Mr. Valin existence....

Rgs,
Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
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  »  New  Jonathan Valin shell be an Alcatraz reviewer...  The world is bad...  Audio News Forum     4  40889  08-23-2007
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