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  »  New  Multiple EQ curves of Arthur Loesch and Tempo Electric..  Before Hi-Fi...  Analog Playback Forum     1  18426  02-22-2010
  »  New  AMR PH-77: just another phonostage or more?..  Oh, yeah... the sound of the Thing Itself......  Analog Playback Forum     11  85692  07-05-2009
12-20-2005 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
guy sergeant
United Kingdom
Posts 258
Joined on 08-03-2004

Post #: 1
Post ID: 1887
Reply to: 1887
Eq for 78's
Hi Romy,

Due in part to your enthusiasm for the older 78 rpm recordings and in part to my own curiosity I have decided to add the facility to play these to my system. It also helps that an old aunt has given me a large quantity of classical recordings which I feel I should investigate.  I have acquired an old LEAK mono pre-amp which has various eq settings for different recording formats including a 78 'English' position.  To start with I shall be using the Shure M78 cartridge and see how the results are with that before looking at something more serious.

My question is regarding how you play back these recordings. Does your phono corrector have a different setting (or more than one) for playing back the 78's you have?

It seems there can be many different eq options depending on who produced the disc.

http://www.shellac.org/wams/wequal.html

I'd be interested to know how you deal with it.

best regards,

Guy
12-20-2005 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,540
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 2
Post ID: 1888
Reply to: 1887
78: I’m a clueless Cat

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Guy,

I do not know. In my past I made an adapter to my Micro motor to play 78s and used contemporary 78 cartridge and 282 arm and off the shelf phonocorector. I would not call this setup as something that was good  but it gave me some opportunities to play with 78s. Although I clearly recognized the huge advantages of 78s but to make it to play right it requires a lot of work and I juts did not go there. So, I would be not defiantly be the person to talk about it. I know Steve the Farmer, who sometimes pop up at this site plays his thousands 78s. I would not say that he went to 78s all the way as it could be, rather he made a comfortably-minimalist setup. However, when I visited him and was listening the 1928 Weingartner’s Beethoven 9th then even in context of the minimum things that Steve did it was still very nice.

The caT


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
12-25-2005 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,540
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 3
Post ID: 1893
Reply to: 1887
FM Acoustics FM122?
Also, Guy,

I juts received my favorite Classical Record Collector” magazine (the only one magazine that I subscribe) and they had an advertisement about the FM Acoustics Phono Linearizers. This baby has virtually unlimited capacity to be tuned to any imaginable curve. I never had the FM Acoustics in my own and I know little about them but it looks like what they did might be very convenient for the 78s playing...

The caT


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
12-25-2005 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
guy sergeant
United Kingdom
Posts 258
Joined on 08-03-2004

Post #: 4
Post ID: 1894
Reply to: 1893
Re: FM Acoustics FM122?

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Hi Romy,

 

Thanks for the tip. I'll look into it.  The highly recommended one over here is the Graham Slee Jazz Club.  http://www.gspaudio.co.uk/preamps/jazzclub.htm

However I want to try to get the old LEAK tube preamp to work first.

By the way I received the Michelangeli Ravel 2 as a present today.  Much,much better than the Bernstein!

best wishes

Guy Sergeant

12-25-2005 Post mapped to one branch of Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,540
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 5
Post ID: 1895
Reply to: 1894
Fremer's blindness and Graham’s objectives…

 guy sergeant wrote:
The highly recommended one over here is the Graham Slee Jazz Club.  http://www.gspaudio.co.uk/preamps/jazzclub.htm

Hm, this Graham is certainly sounds attractive but there is something in there that very-very much alerts me.  They proposed that this unit “greatly reduced record noise” and THIS is very essential evidence that this phonostage was made by people who have absolutely no know what they are doing and that this phonostage might be very much juts a piece of typical audio garbage.

Why so harsh judgment? Because the redaction of the surface noise by the analog means while preserving the linear response is possible only via a twisting the harmonic balance, making sound “sharp” (musically #). The are great number of the too# phonocorrectors on market and all of them are undauntedly faulty as they are interfere with the propose parabola with wish the note rolling in and out to it’s pitch. Yes, making sound too# does reduce the surface noise but it also, truncating the lower harmonics, remove all complexity from music, converting Sound into the isolated sounds.

Look, even the Stereophile’s clown Michael Framer noted that: "I couldn't believe …the lack of noise from the old shellac”. As far as I concern by making his statement the Framer, unknowingly, stacked a large nail into the coffin of the Graham phonocorrector.

As I can see they have a free trail… that is nice. Get one, play it and pay attention to the fool bloom of second harmonics. If it “intensifies” it and make the first reflection subjectively faster then the sequences of the fundamentals might require then return it back instantaneously…

Rgs,
Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
12-26-2005 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Roberts
Pensacola, FL, US
Posts 3
Joined on 03-09-2005

Post #: 6
Post ID: 1896
Reply to: 1887
Re: Eq for 78's

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The big problem with 78RPM is their is not one EQ that functions properly with large cross sections of the discs. I have collected several curves for different periods which many are not interchangeable. I feel this database I have collected to be conclusive of years of research and is not for sale. One must do the research for themselves. Most of the "restoration work" I have heard lacked the ability to stay within the playback spectrum of the discs. The LF cut-off of the best playback mechanisms of the day were acoustic in nature, not filtered electronically. Same with the higher frequencies. A realistic 65 to 5500Hz range is displayed with the recordings, why roll the bottom end off to unrealistic proportions other than to comb out the lowest fq information which could be bothersome. (?) To consider one curve alone would be a fallacy, even with one disc. A combination of various curves are required.
This research is based on listening to authentic and actual playback mechanisms of the periods and not simply an extrapolation of what "sounds best".

A very convincing reproduction can be made. Not one that considers "audiophile qualities" but musical ones.

Noise filtering however has evolved significantly over the years with high speed processing as to not interfere with the frequency range but to deal with surface impulses and noise levels 10dB below the programme. Surface noise should be dealt with at the disc level, not via eq or filtering in the electronics. Impulse noises can be dealt with electronically with satisfactory results. 
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   Target    Threads for related reading   Most recent post in related threads   Forum  Replies   Views   Started 
  »  New  Multiple EQ curves of Arthur Loesch and Tempo Electric..  Before Hi-Fi...  Analog Playback Forum     1  18426  02-22-2010
  »  New  AMR PH-77: just another phonostage or more?..  Oh, yeah... the sound of the Thing Itself......  Analog Playback Forum     11  85692  07-05-2009
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