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  »  New  Critique audio performance before acquire new element...  Critique audio performance before acquire new element....  Audio For Dummies ™  Forum     0  28942  12-31-2004
05-12-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,540
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 1
Post ID: 16254
Reply to: 16254
My site and Your expectation from my playback.
fiogf49gjkf0d

Ok, I guess the Kitty is getting self-conscious….

When people visit me I ritually ask them to offer critiques to Sound they hear in my room. Because people in audio are no accustom to express their audible sensations in holistic verbal form and become many of them abrade idiotic and phony political correctness that they feel come with status “visitor”   many of them  in their judgment as useful critics as turkeys that are walking around my yard. So, over the year I been inviting the “ideas” how to make people not just hear something and to ask stupid question what kind driver or cartridge I use but rather to express some attitude listening and share with me own listening personality.

My favorite trick the always work is to ask to my visitors: if I die tomorrow and sigh off in my will my entire installation to you then what you will be changing in Sound? This removes from the people the need to be “polite” and they are trying to talk a bit, thought it take for them to long time to get going…

Most of the people who visit me in one way or another red my site and my surprise for the last 2-3 years I caught myself to asking them another interesting question. I really do not know why I do it but I do.  I ask them if what they read in my site has any correlation or discrepancy with what they actually are witnessing in my room. I would like to say to you that what they hear is better or worse then what they expect. The irony is that no one ever told me about it. All people, with no exceptions, who visited for a first time and heard my audio answered that the expectation they had before visiting me, the expectations formed by my site, were very deferent then what they actually experienced in my room.

Sure in some case it was because people underestimated or over estimated me but if it happened with everyone who visited me for a first time then can we talk about pattern of wrong exceptions we have toward to unknown playback installation?  Interesting is that I always an interested if the expectation were better or worse but the answer is unavoidably the same: different. People insist that my playback plays music differently.  I would not argue with that. However, what we have this discussion in my room I uselessly point out that I have many-many posts at my site stating exactly that.  The people always say to me: unit you hear the actual results whatever you say are just meaningless words.  Also, people confess that after visiting me they begin to read my site with other understanding the meaning of the said.

So, in the light of the above I would like to proclaim the surprising thing: whatever I express at my site I truly mean it. Surprised?

Rgs, Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
05-13-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
ArmAlex
Iran
Posts 81
Joined on 02-15-2009

Post #: 2
Post ID: 16256
Reply to: 16254
Surprised?!
fiogf49gjkf0d
Not at all.
05-13-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Stitch


Behind The Sun
Posts 226
Joined on 01-15-2009

Post #: 3
Post ID: 16257
Reply to: 16254
The real Audiophile
fiogf49gjkf0d
 Romy the Cat wrote:

When people visit me I ritually ask them to offer critiques to Sound they hear in my room...


What do you expect? Most  audiophiles have absolutely no idea from reproduction of the real thing. More or less they blabber something they have read in a magazine before. That question is interesting, when you have visitors who KNOW what is on the software, who KNOW something of tonality, of space, of mastering the records, how they were recorded and so on.

Most Audiophiles I know rate something out of their stomach. They "like" something. Any conversation with them is ultra boring and like rolling a dice. When you know something, made something outstanding and your System is definitely different in sound reproduction than 95% of the usual ear cancer Systems, then there is only 1 listener interesting for you:

The one who owns a System - or units - you are interested to listen to ....


I never listened to System which moved me, or made me stay longer than 1 min, which had a LP12, Schroeder Arm, Idler Drive... as main source, or Mark Levinson, Burmester, Pass Electronics and the other way, no owner from really outstanding Systems (for my kind of Standard) had any of these units.


Rodrigues - CD versus live.jpg




Kind Regards
Stitch
05-13-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,540
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 4
Post ID: 16258
Reply to: 16257
A deficiency of stimulating personalities.
fiogf49gjkf0d
Ironically one of the biggest shortcomings of the visitors that I have is their luck of attitude or well defined demands toward to what they about to hear. Most of the audio people when they deal with audio let audio to play the music in the way how it want and then they made judgment if they like it. This approach I always find absurd and it always annoys me. I feel that a person listening a playback shall have a very well formed opinion HOW he would like the playback to play the given music. If playback does it then it is great but if the playback doe not then the person shall have well identified what is wrong and what he would like to change. A person might not always know HOW to take sound from what it is to where he feels it has to be. In fact to investigate this “HOW” take 85% of time in audio. Still, a person has to have absolutely clear visualization how he wants the given music to sound.

When I go to hear other people playback I always bitch that it do not sound in the way how I want. To my surprise the audio people get upset and become defensive. If I see it of course I begin to stress them even more – we Cats are very good with it. However, the audio people are missing that not criticism has value but the underlying motivations that lead to the criticism. A clearly expressed reasons and pointing the specifics of decrement with the witnessed Sound make criticism not a criticism but rather correlation of reference points – what might be more interesting and more educational  then that?

A few months ago, I think I wrote it somewhere, I compiled a profile of a perfect visitor that I would like to invite. It would be a person who has his own vision how Sound shall sound and who listening what I offered would UNDERSTAND what I am trying to, be able to explain to me what I am trying to do and then explain to me what he find interesting for him in my sonic objectives and what he find is faulty in my Sound. Then, ONY then I will be interesting to talk about way HOW the things might be done differently.

I have to admit that I do not have a lot of stimulating visitors but I generally do not find a lot of stimulating individuals in audio….

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
05-14-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
ArmAlex
Iran
Posts 81
Joined on 02-15-2009

Post #: 5
Post ID: 16259
Reply to: 16258
Audiophiles' misunderstanding
fiogf49gjkf0d
Dear Romy,
Almost every audiophile I've seen think audio gear are like refrigerators, washing machine or any home appliance. You should just
plug and play. At best they change interconnect or speaker cables and by A/B testing try to find out which sounds better-one I know that to test different interconnects or speaker cables, connects diferent typs to left and right channel of his system and by turning balance volume undersands which one is better!
Rrgards,
Armen
05-14-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
N-set
Gdansk, Poland
Posts 454
Joined on 01-07-2006

Post #: 6
Post ID: 16260
Reply to: 16254
Whatever you say about God is untrue!
fiogf49gjkf0d
 Romy the Cat wrote:
whatever I express at my site I truly mean it.


You sound a bit like anti-Meister Eckhart :-D

If I ever had any objective in my playback it would be along Eckhart's lines



Cheers,
Jarek
05-14-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Markus
Posts 68
Joined on 03-07-2007

Post #: 7
Post ID: 16261
Reply to: 16260
Different attitude
fiogf49gjkf0d
When I go to hear someone's system, I ask the owner to show me why it sounds the way it sounds. Some people understand the question and play me the music that is emotionally important for them, the music that has to "work". Sometimes, I learn something from the visit.

Whether or not the sytem works for me, on the music that is emotionally important to me, should be irrelevant to any of the persons I visit.
05-14-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,540
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 8
Post ID: 16262
Reply to: 16261
Attitude or Altitude? Those Shroud of Turin on audio…
fiogf49gjkf0d
 Markus wrote:
When I go to hear someone's system, I ask the owner to show me why it sounds the way it sounds. Some people understand the question and play me the music that is emotionally important for them, the music that has to "work". Sometimes, I learn something from the visit.

A wrote exactly about it. I find it very important moment: to see what and how people willing to show the capacity of own playback. The “what” ingredient is no less important than “how” ingredient, I have mentioned it in the article” The most emblematic recording? “. You are absolutely right- some people get and some are absolutely not get it. Interesting that sometime only by hearing that “the most showy” recording that a person keep as the ultimate expression of his playback it is possible to lose interest to anything that a person to do in audio. I had it many TIMES, perhaps it is my maximalist of moronity, I do not know and frankly do not care but I very much practice this behavior.

I remember in 2001 I visited late Lars Fredell, looks like experienced person and what he demonstrated to me during entire day was interesting and educational. Do not forget that I was less experienced with many aspects of audio 10 years back. Then in the very end of the visit he told me that he will be playing to me something absolutely special that in his view is absolute epiphany of audio. He went to his shelf with probably the most valuable recording and took a CD. I very much saw the way how he handled this CD, he opened it up as he would unwrap the Turin Shroud. I know this feeling; I have some of those recordings myself. So, as Lars played the CD I was shocked how non-interesting and musically primitive it was. It was some kind of Swedish version of Patricia Barber singing something irrelevant…  Atr that tine I got an instant perspective what audio-wise Lars was all about….
 
The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
05-14-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Jorge
Austin TX
Posts 137
Joined on 10-17-2010

Post #: 9
Post ID: 16263
Reply to: 16262
Emblematic recording
fiogf49gjkf0d
In my experience even the most shitty system plays a certain recording very well,  whenever I go to listen to a playback the owner puts those special recordings that sound great on his system, (we all have heard them endlessly on shows).  I have a close friend that even hides the recordings he owns that cannot be played by his system.  I used to carry around some recordings with me when I listened to systems but the were always too complicated for the system I was visiting, and when the system started to blow up the owner always got angry with me and critiziced either my recording or my bad taste in music... or both!  Carmina Burana or the Polovtsian dances are almost impossible to play for most systems.
After that I decided whenever I listen to a new playback to thell the owner: surprise me,  put something that sounds amazing.  Few times they can. When I sort of know the system I will be visiting I do take my own emblematic recordings,  it is almost always a big failure for the system.
When I a not sure I rather not take anything.
I have a close friend that has taken the time to make a selection of recordings to test a sysem,  he puts on simple things first in order to evaluate how it is doing on certian frequencies and tone wise and according to that he adds more wood to the fire.   Even like that he almost always gets frowns form the systems owner.

Of course it is always good to hear your own references on a system and see how they do,  but I can also tell a lot about the system with the music played or availble from the owner.

I think it is a great idea to ask the owner what are his emblematc recordings and taht way you can almost be sure of what you are going to get!
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