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   Home » Musical Discussions » Tschaikowsky, [Violin] Concerto in D, Reiner/Chicago/Heifetz (9 posts, 1 page)
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12-15-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,657
Joined on 10-12-2006
Post #: 1
Post ID: 6131
Reply to: 6131
Tschaikowsky, [Violin] Concerto in D, Reiner/Chicago/Heifetz
RCA stereo, LSC-2129, 1958

I know it's popular in some circles to pick on the CSO.  Well, pick on this.

In this case, Reiner does a great job with a great orchestra.  Heifetz is relaxed and in terrific form.  His spectacular instrument plays naturally above the orchestra as Reiner neither panders nor "accomodates", and likewise Heifetz.  I love this sort of balance, where professionals doing their individual bests make great music together.  Something about the climate of respect...

The first movement is voiced almost like Beethoven, but I like it.  Second movement is more typical Tchaikowsky tone.  Third movement is voiced more like the first.  Ensemble work is top-flight; these are great musicians.

BTW, the string chorus is freaking brilliant throughout.

Big sound, if you can do it.

Paul S
12-22-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
JANDL100


Forest of Dean, UK
Posts 71
Joined on 09-27-2007
Post #: 2
Post ID: 6163
Reply to: 6131
Another take on the Tchaik VC
I must confess that I don't have a lot of time for Heifetz's recordings - I find him too cool and aloof (even in the Sibelius where such attributes might be expected to be virtues) - to me he sounds indifferent and unresponsive to the emotions in a piece.   I understand it was a very different experience to hear him live, though - rather than the emaciated sound that RCA usually bestowed on him (fighting talk, huh?!).   80) 

I've not heard Heifetz's version of the Tchaik VC though, but one that has recently quite blown me away (I never really expected to much enjoy this old warhorse again) is by Aaron Rosand.   I still can't believe how much I enjoy this performance.  (Mind you, I am in something of a "Rosand phase" at the moment - his Khachaturian VC is one of my fave versions of anything! - and I've acquired Rosand's Bach S&Ps, a disc of Beethoven sonatas and a few other recordings - all worth hearing and some are wonderful).

Jerry
12-22-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,657
Joined on 10-12-2006
Post #: 3
Post ID: 6166
Reply to: 6163
"emaciated sound"
I am not so much a Heifetz booster as I am am appreciative of the piece, here rendered quite well, and with veryy good stereo (LP) sound.  I don't knw anything about your vinyl playback, but this LP should not sound "emaciated", despite the tipping-up.

I will start looking for Rosand.  Now that I have acceptable CD playback, perhaps I can find some of these re-recorded in listenable form.

Best regards,
Paul S
12-22-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
JANDL100


Forest of Dean, UK
Posts 71
Joined on 09-27-2007
Post #: 4
Post ID: 6168
Reply to: 6166
Vinyl playback? Nope !
 Paul S wrote:
I am not so much a Heifetz booster as I am am appreciative of the piece, here rendered quite well, and with veryy good stereo (LP) sound.  I don't knw anything about your vinyl playback, but this LP should not sound "emaciated", despite the tipping-up.


I only have digital sources these days - I use a Teac VRDS transport into a Burmester DAC.  Sounds good to me!

If you are interested in Rosand's Tchaik VC, Amazon.com Market Place have it for $3.62 + shipping.  A real bargain!
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B0000365OE/ref=sr_1_olp_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1198363105&sr=1-1

Regards, Jerry

Jerry
12-22-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,156
Joined on 05-28-2004
Post #: 5
Post ID: 6170
Reply to: 6163
Heifetz, Tchaikovsky and so on…

Heifetz recorded the Tchaikovsky concerto 3 times: with Barbiolli, with Susskind and with Reiner. Frankly speaking I do not like any of them. It is not that I “do not like” them rather they are like having sex with a marble-made women – the shape is there but there I no or little physical sensations from the actions. The same is with Heifetz. His techniques are phenomenal and the cleanness of his play is supernatural. However, if not always has that special “smell” that turn me on. I do not say that Heifetz never had it, in many instanced he does but in my view his play of Tchaikovsky concerto is not what touches me too mach.

My favorite Tchaikovsky concerto is by Tossy Spivakovsky that much more flexible in his balance between demonstration of glory and expression of characteristic musicality.

http://www.romythecat.com/Forums/ShowPost.aspx?postID=408

Jerry, it is interesting that you are going through Aaron Rosand’s phase.  I heard his and he is well delved to be a good phase. Did you have Viktoria Mullova’s phase?

http://www.viktoriamullova.com/

…though she does not play Tchaikovsky… BTW, I have the CDs for you but can not go to post office – my damn Bimmer does not drive in snow, and we have it too mach lately. If you wish I might burn for you Tossy’s Tchaikovsky…

Rgs, the Cat

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
12-23-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
JANDL100


Forest of Dean, UK
Posts 71
Joined on 09-27-2007
Post #: 6
Post ID: 6171
Reply to: 6170
Rosand and Mullova and Tossy S ....
Hi Romy

Heifetz as sex with a marble woman - yes, exactly!   Everything is perfect but without any emotional response.  I am sure that the recorded sound he was usually given does not help - thin, scrawny & screechy - while reports of his live playing describe it as like warm velvet - that could hardly be more different!   I'm sure that's why he considered hi-fidelity equipment to be "hi-phooee" - I guess that he simply thought his own recordings sounded awful !!

Thanks for making the CDRs for me, Romy (has my recent pack to you arrived yet? - Tintner's Bruckner 7, a very special Shostakovich piano quintet  etc) and yes, the Spivakovsky Tchaik VC would be most interesting!  Thank you.

No, I have not (yet) had a Mullova phase, she has a bit of a reputation as an "ice maiden" too - although I have enjoyed a disc of Bach solo violin music by her.

Rgds, Jerry

Jerry
12-23-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,156
Joined on 05-28-2004
Post #: 7
Post ID: 6177
Reply to: 6171
The “ice maiden” status.
Interning that Heifetz has that same “ice maiden” status, primary because he did not express any facial or body emotionalism while he was plying. Ms. Mullova is the same she appears almost like “detached” and just “renders the notes”. It is hard to me, the person who do not play to judge them, I think it is upon the personally and if Heifetz or Mullova has no habits to express them physically then it is fine by me. What they do with Sound is fine enough, allowing them to behave in any what they like. Do Heifetz and Mullova, both ice maidens, have any relation between “body language coolness” and emotional coolness of play? I do not think so. We need to listen a violinist not to look at him/her…


Young Viktoria Mullova at Barbican Concert Hall 1983

BTW, Heifetz had own things with his “coolness”. I read somewhere an interview with RCA engineers who told that Heifetz insisted to position microphones in extreme proximity to his instrument. Rumors are that Heifetzs’ favorite instilment was del Gesù Guarneri but for his recordings he use up-miked Strads. People who know suggest that Stradivarius need a room to breathe and it is it recorded too up-close then it might sound too sharp and “cool”. Pay attention when Heifetz recorded not “too hot” and more ambianic then he does sound different…

The Cat

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
12-23-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,657
Joined on 10-12-2006
Post #: 8
Post ID: 6179
Reply to: 6171
At his best
Well, Heifetz could play quite well at times, by about any measure, I think.  One does note some "cool pyrotechnics" in places where others might really try to pour it on/wring it out, and of course it is nice when we get "everything".  But when we're done knocking Heifetz we are still left with some good music from him.

I have not listened to a lot of violin on CD.  I wonder if CD is any more likely to to sound "thin, scrawny & screechy"?  Lord knows, I get enough of that from LPs!  The RCA I cite is pretty good, however, despite the usual "engineering" hijinks.

Best regards,
Paul S
05-11-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,657
Joined on 10-12-2006
Post #: 9
Post ID: 7380
Reply to: 6179
It just gets better

Another great thing about great music:  It not only encourages but also rewards re-listening.

God, I love this piece!

And with better electricity today, it is hard to imagine a more satisfying overall rendition.

Germane to the "Ice Maiden" post, Heifitz's performance here is anything but cool, let alone cold.  He is truly phenomenal here!

And, this "shaded dog" stereo is fantastic (1958!).  Wonderful scale and ambience; spectacular dynamics.

Run, don't walk to get your copy now (but only if you actually play it...)!

Paul S
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