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  »  New  Macondo's Axioms: Horn-loaded acoustic systems..  A link to another thread....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     120  686955  07-29-2007
  »  New  Dannoy 2021 Loudspeakers..  It is all bout me....  Audio For Dummies ™  Forum     24  36396  08-04-2021
  »  New  Bermuda Triangles of Audio..  Tannoy carton issues...  Playback Listening  Forum     5  13164  11-09-2021
10-22-2021 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,184
Joined on 05-28-2004
Post #: 21
Post ID: 26426
Reply to: 26424
Time...
Godel was brought as an illustration of principle  when the person used purely mathematical methods to prove philosophical incompetence of mathematics. No one fascinated with his conclusions mathematically, in fact mathematicians prefer not even talk about it, but I think a beautiful model of at situation when when a notion self-destruct it's own coordinate system. The key in it, at least how I see its application to the given thread, what happened after the coordinate system collapsed and the notion continues to exist? Obviously a new coordinate system is formed and purely forsake of conversation the notion become notion2. Now, he is an interesting question. If we forget about time alignment and pretend notion from first coordinate system meet notion2 from 2nd coordinate system then what they will be talking about? I hope it does not sound too contrived but here is the question. What would listen to Romy the Cat of Macondo vintage will be talking with Romy The Cat of Dannoy vintage? In other words if I do not receive my Remedies very soon I will begin to post at my site the telephone book pages or recipe from culinary books....



"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
10-22-2021 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
N-set
Gdansk, Poland
Posts 617
Joined on 01-07-2006
Post #: 22
Post ID: 26427
Reply to: 26426
I understand but...
I still highly recommend making the intellectual effort (was quite substantial for me) and reading that Jung chapter. You might recognize in his analysis of alchemists quite  a few psychological things you have been talking about in audio for years (and I have learned from you). As a side note, coordinate systems in modern math and physics have only a secondary meaning or no meaning. The most important is the "it" the theory talks about. In general relativity coordinates are altogether pronounced non-physical and can lead to various artificial singularities.
No Paul, you are wrong. Jung is precise in his description and draws quite some definite conclusions.


Cheers,
Jarek
STACORE
10-22-2021 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,672
Joined on 10-12-2006
Post #: 23
Post ID: 26428
Reply to: 26427
Adumbrate
One of my favorite words, means both to cast a shadow and to bring to light. Pretty much sums up Jung for me. I thought that Romy reversed typical subject/object roles deliberately, which actually made it make more sense to me. Alchemy? OK.


Paul S
10-22-2021 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,184
Joined on 05-28-2004
Post #: 24
Post ID: 26429
Reply to: 26391
Come on DHL, let my people go....
Okay, I got today and interesting update: my Remedies the Beauty already in the United States. Which is kind of bothers me. After decided to build my own Dannoy type loudspeaker I begin to see a sequence of very strange dreams. I know a girl who he's quite seriously into dream interpretations and she explained to me that the sequence of my dreams means that whatever projects I involve right now will be I complete failure. I have some of my subconscious fantasy that my Chinese cabinet maker would screw me up but it looks like it did not materialize. It means that she not going to be sound good and this is kind of depressing... Maybe my builder used centimeters instead of inches... In reality I work a lot nowadays I don't listen anything partially because I have no time and partially because I would like to keep my virginity to Remedies. Even though I understand this my current load it will be a long process until I'm going to make the sound seasoned I still keep myself available only to her. It is as weird as it could be. The irony of the things that I spoke with couple people about the same feeling who hurd Dannoy and they do not consider me strange at all.


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
10-23-2021 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Bill
Kensington, NH
Posts 117
Joined on 03-15-2010
Post #: 25
Post ID: 26430
Reply to: 26429
Dreams?
Or maybe you ate some figgy pudding!
10-28-2021 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,184
Joined on 05-28-2004
Post #: 26
Post ID: 26449
Reply to: 26429
I had a dream… sucks!
As my dreams were predicted that “a project I am working on now will fail” I am kind of wondering what the project would it be. The Remedies the Beauty is certainly one of the projects that I am involved, and I was wondering where a failure might be coming in this project. Well, I think at this point it would not be premature to say that Remedies project is a failure and the reason for it not some kind of mysterious spell of 15 century monks but my very much unadulterated own stupidity.  It is no surprise that albert Einstein had a horse shew abos his door in Princeton.

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
10-28-2021 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,672
Joined on 10-12-2006
Post #: 27
Post ID: 26450
Reply to: 26449
Mezuzah
I suppose it's hard waiting to find out. Maybe "more heart", rather than all heart? Part of "intuition", I think, is "working at the edges of perception". Who  can resist subjecting oneself to a test once in a while, a sort of systems check? Keep us posted!

Best regards,
Paul S
10-28-2021 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,184
Joined on 05-28-2004
Post #: 28
Post ID: 26451
Reply to: 26450
The pipe...
It was not a “heart” but pure stupidity and my underestimation my Chinese builder. I decided to make it back mounted and naturally requested to make some bevel over the driver whole. I did not even care about the size of the baffle and I decided that anything at 1-1 1/5 ins would work. I did not realize that his baffles are 6’ and with 25 degree bevel the drivers are shooting into very much a pipe.  It is not about “it” but about ugly harmonic colorations that this type of waveguide has. I feel like an id and it is completely my fault.

BadRemegies.jpg


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
10-28-2021 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,672
Joined on 10-12-2006
Post #: 29
Post ID: 26452
Reply to: 26451
Slow and Steady; Onward
An old carpenter once advised young me that a good carpenter is able to integrate his mistakes.

Note that your photo popped up after I first responded, rendering that stuff non-sequiter, so this and the following are an edit in response to the photo:

Wow, that sure is a thick baffle! I think you wouldn't want that tunnel behind the driver, either. It will take some skill to fix that.


Paul S
10-28-2021 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
N-set
Gdansk, Poland
Posts 617
Joined on 01-07-2006
Post #: 30
Post ID: 26453
Reply to: 26451
Auch
That hurts...I usually use some 3D software to model before productions. Both takes and saves time. May I ask why China?


Cheers,
Jarek
STACORE
10-28-2021 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,184
Joined on 05-28-2004
Post #: 31
Post ID: 26454
Reply to: 26453
Everything is made in China nowadays
Jarek, why not China? I did not particularly look in China, but I was looking for a person who whom I can talk and who will be listening me and do what I asked. He did very good job during the initial planning phase and I do like what he did in the end. The subject of the baffle we did not even discus and the Dannoy were 1” baffle, nothing special and they sounded spectacular. In the end I recognized that I was the one who did not listen him! Now I found his notes where he said about 6” baffle but I discarded it as I thought it was a mistake as no one would do 6” baffle. Good for him, this is how the arrogant customers need to be tough!

This is just a top section of the speaker and I might order another version with straight whole for external mount. I might consider plugging the holes with inserts and them to drill new wholes. It would be a complex piece to make without turning machine…  I would like my Remedies to be nice and do not have a face lift….

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
10-28-2021 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
N-set
Gdansk, Poland
Posts 617
Joined on 01-07-2006
Post #: 32
Post ID: 26456
Reply to: 26454
The distance
That's why asking - I value high Chinese craftsmanship (not to be confused with a cheap mass production!) but the distance makes it difficult for corrections. The plugin for external mount should not be a great deal but as Paul said, the driver will see a 6" long tunnel behind it. I'm watching closely your journey as, with your permission, I'd be interested in making a pair for my personal use. I have too small space for big horns and DSET's but sth like Remedies + SIT amp might be the way out. 


Cheers,
Jarek
STACORE
10-28-2021 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,672
Joined on 10-12-2006
Post #: 33
Post ID: 26457
Reply to: 26456
Swap the baffle???
Don't know construction details, of course, but I'm sitting way out on the West Coast thinking, "I'd swap the baffle". Easy for me to say, I realize...


Paul S
10-28-2021 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,184
Joined on 05-28-2004
Post #: 34
Post ID: 26458
Reply to: 26457
Some recovery, most spiritual.
Ok, I partially got my sound. The top section of Remedies is serially wasted and need to be redon. Still, was looking in my attic and I found something that is make it so much better, at least in phycological domain. I found a pair of Reds from 60 that have 12” mount (Tannoy sold it to DIY community) and I just top mounted them across the baffle’s pipe. The sound got not as barbaric as it used to be. I still is not acceptable as the passive radiators is mounted 7” behind the Tannoy driver and there are a lot of other problems. most likely coming from the fact that Tannoy sits in pipe and not mounted properly. It was pleasure however to hear some sort of servility from this project. Now I verify the problem objectively and I wonder what I will be having in my dream now.

BadBaffleProject.jpg


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
10-30-2021 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,184
Joined on 05-28-2004
Post #: 35
Post ID: 26464
Reply to: 26456
I do not know...
 N-set wrote:
.. big horns and DSET's but sth like Remedies + SIT amp might be ...

 

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
10-30-2021 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
N-set
Gdansk, Poland
Posts 617
Joined on 01-07-2006
Post #: 36
Post ID: 26467
Reply to: 26464
Addictive quality
Thank you very much Romy for your attempt on comparing the two. Although it is obviously just a sketch,  I enjoyed it and actually my curiosity about Dannoy/SIT has even grown. Might be you've hit one of a "singular point" of audio. You mentioned that the music/performances you did not like sound more acceptable/less annoying than with the Macondo/Milq. And how about the music that you like? How do you perceive it through Dannoy/SIT?
As for the Remedies' boxes - perhaps you can find someone to shave off 5" or so from the front baffle, from the outside? This should be +/- easily doable to the existing boxes.
Cheers,


Cheers,
Jarek
STACORE
10-31-2021 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,184
Joined on 05-28-2004
Post #: 37
Post ID: 26468
Reply to: 26467
I do not understand it now.
 N-set wrote:
And how about the music that you like? How do you perceive it through Dannoy/SIT?

It hard to say. I really do not understand the Dannoy/SIT sound at this point. I have even no idea if that sound come from Dannoy, from SIT or from combination of it. everything is vey very and in way very strange. I use both of my B2 for a while and I know them very well. I did not feel that they are great amps. I do not like this bass when they drove my woofer tower and I was experimented with depleted tube active crossover to enrich sound with second harmonics. To a degree I was successfully but it was far from what I would like it to be, and I had my wet dream about 150 SET. Now with Dannoy, with no even midbass to support at the bottom I am getting very surprising structure in bass the I never hear from B2. It is not even remotely feeling like any SS bass and it somehow masks it range very interestingly. I hear a very full and very reach sound and I put my RTA in play, and I have -6db and 55Hz. But by ears is enough bass very good quality of bass. I am puzzled with it and with many other things in this combo. I do not want to create a cult out it, I know the audio people are prone to make cult out of anything but there are some things in Dannoy/SIT that I do not understand now but I am not wiling to discard it because I do not understand it.

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
11-01-2021 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
N-set
Gdansk, Poland
Posts 617
Joined on 01-07-2006
Post #: 38
Post ID: 26469
Reply to: 26468
The mere fact
... that such modest-looking, off the shelf setup moved Mac/Milq out of the listening room is impressive enough. If that were my boxes, before commissioning  new pair, I'd try shaving off the front baffles. Any wood workshop should do that, no need for CNC machines, just a plane with a high enough gap to accept the box.

What is the midbass reinforcement? AK151?


Cheers,
Jarek
STACORE
11-01-2021 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,184
Joined on 05-28-2004
Post #: 39
Post ID: 26470
Reply to: 26469
A better looking Dannoys.... that all that I want.
I do not know how it goes for now. The Remedies is 4 boxes, 2 midbass sections and 2 to sections with Tannoys. I got juts one top section. It is clearly that tops section needs to be redone. I presume that midbass sections as well. I still have no conclusion if I want to have in baffle mount or outside. The Dannoy was free from problem with 1” baffle outside mount. The Remedies has a huge baffle and I need to cut it for both time of mount as the “pipe” even behind the driver look like impacts sound. You can see in the picture that the baffle is solid and goes for the entire depth of the front facet. I am going to get the rest of the boxes, assemble the speakers to play with it then formulate the requirement for the new version. Most likely it will be front mount with 45-degree bevel toward to back panel, starting from 1”. I do not have experience with all of it and halve no idea how it all of it impacts anything. The Dannoys were perfect but ugly, all that I wans to do is to have better looking Dannoys


BetterLookingDannoy.jpg


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
11-01-2021 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,672
Joined on 10-12-2006
Post #: 40
Post ID: 26471
Reply to: 26470
Interior Volume?
Well, the tunnels will certainly affect the sound, whether they're inside or out, whether or not it winds up mattering to you, and it looks from the photo like the Vitavox will be in the same situation as the Tannoy. You did not say if you aimed to maintain the same internal volume for the Tannoy as your original box, or if you calculated VAS for the woofer, but this is another case where a change in internal volume will affect the sound (whether or not it matters to you). It looks like the front baffles were bolted to the cases. If so, I would remove the bolts and then remove the thick baffes, and I'd go from there. If the baffles are also glued to the cases, it would be relatively easy to make up a jig to cut through one side at a time along the glue line.



Paul S
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   Target    Threads for related reading   Most recent post in related threads   Forum  Replies   Views   Started 
  »  New  Macondo's Axioms: Horn-loaded acoustic systems..  A link to another thread....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     120  686955  07-29-2007
  »  New  Dannoy 2021 Loudspeakers..  It is all bout me....  Audio For Dummies ™  Forum     24  36396  08-04-2021
  »  New  Bermuda Triangles of Audio..  Tannoy carton issues...  Playback Listening  Forum     5  13164  11-09-2021
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