msaudio wrote:

Romy    Why is it all the people in the art's are homo's Romy? Maybe being a gay does something to your ears. Forsure you have to much time on your hands, you need to find a women and maybe you will get lucky and she has some good ear's to tell you what your system sounds like, then you can start over with a real idea.

msaudio wrote:

Romy I have not herd so much doulble talk in a long time. Some of the best sounding drivers on the market in the last 60 years, were for sound reinforcement.

It is not my view. I wrote about it many times before, read my site.  Compression drivers were made ONLY for sound reinforcement where sound pressure was the only objective. No one ever made drivers for sonic objectives. We just use for home applications the best among worse what the sound reinforcement industry produce. Saying it, I have to admit that there is very small amount of companies very recently that  make claims that their new divers were made specifically for home use and with sonic objectives but it is a totally different subject and I would challenge their claims.

msaudio wrote:

Why would anyone in there right mind want to drive an altec 802 at 400 hz? They were ment to be used at 500Hz and up.

Because the attack bass drivers in ported configuration are not so good above 400Hz. I would cross them at 300Hz but there is no compression drivers that would go so low.

msaudio wrote:

So badmouthing the altec early 802 drivers tells me you mite have a tin ear, because you donot have a clue to make some of your statements.

I do not badmouthing them I reflect what they are. Not only you had them and not only were you trying to make them to work. The 1” Altec drivers have own place in cheap Altec models what people were trying to put one ass on multiple c\stools but it is about it. They very primitive in tone, they have very low contrast discrimination and particularly at low volume, they “compressed”, they have many other problems.  They are bright enough to shot from the depth of the stupid Altec horns and it why people like them.

msaudio wrote:

Why is it all the people in the art's are homo's Romy? Maybe being a gay does something to your ears.

Hm, interesting. Each day I have a chance to learn something new about myself. Did you see in your wet dream that you sucked my dick or you it is you were licking the Altec drivers? Sorry disappoint you, msaudio, I am not a gay but the need of assholes out there to justify position as “because he is a fag” is not new to me. 9 years ago one very famous manufacturer (with truly world name) in response to my disapproval of Sound of his product deployed a rumor that I am a gay.  For the white trash the he was selling his crap at that time it was enough. In six month he got high on cocaine (that he use VERY aggressively at that time) and he called me home and literally claying he told me that in his childhood when he was in ballet school he was sexually used by his teachers and his older schoolmates. He sounded very hart but honestly, I had absolutely no sympathy for him. I do not know what is your particular problem is but I have no sympathy for your obvious problem as well.

msaudio wrote:

Forsure you have to much time on your hands, you need to find a women and maybe you will get lucky and she has some good ear's to tell you what your system sounds like, then you can start over with a real idea. You mite realize simple is better, you donot need a 10 way speaker system, you donot need to buy stock into the edison company for audio playback. you donot need $5000.00 worth of wire when $150.00 sounds the same. Everything was going good on this site until you started to getting strange about your new sound room, then the real you came out of the closet, first i donot believe you own the house because you are trying to not make any changes to sound room, then you started a few other posts so it was becoming a sore subject because of how bad it sounds and it was emberassing because you had no idea what you were getting into. Witch are the basics in sound principles, your room. You thought you were just going to plop your speakers in there and walla, same old sound as the last room. My audio consulting fee's are pretty high, give me a landline when you want to take your system to the next level, witch is about 5 levels down. Preaching Horn Religion  MSAUDIO    I will bet you remove this from your site because, YOU CAN'T HANDEL THE TRUTH. Or we can start a new thread for the upgrades to your system and call the thread " Speakers for the Hearing Impaired"

Oh, msaudio, how foolish you were thinking that I would remove your post from my site! Your post is the best you even posted and it is wonderful illustration why have an attitude toward Audio Moron as I do.

msaudio wrote:

Oxric    The homo's you want to defend are the same individual's that are taken down man kind of the world. Homo's don't have respect for there fellow man, they want to destroy religion, mariage,morrals,self respect. You want to call homo's civilised people, that's a joke. You are Little magget in my book, go find a primary school to hang at scumbag.

Msaudio,

if you had a need to vent your little oasis of own happiness,  I guess you have right to do so. Still, I would like to ask you (and I will do it only ONCE) to stay on the subjects of audio. Regardless the fact that I very much disagree with your life views, and regardless the fact that I have consider you an idiot (not because Altec but everything else), I would like to extend you opportunity to sober up and to re-read the stupidity you have posted. In future, if you wish I would like you to post only on the subjects of audio. You are in probation at my site. One more post where you have a need to bravado you white trash attitude (brad, learned where the phases came from) and you will lose not only posting but also reading privileges at my site. I do not want to waste my time to read the crap like this.

Romy the Cat wrote:

Last night I was cleaning/setting the room where the hated Altec 19 were sitting and I decided play them for a while.  I used a few different amps. To drive Altec 19, especially in it’s default configuration, always was a subject of debates and disagreements.  I had a few amps that I tried with more or less success. I did not paid attention to upper region of the Altec 19 – then are improperly made to do it right, but I was looking at bass that the Model 19 does. As much as I like the Model 19 bass driver as much I always hated the Model 19 bass. Still using different amps, tube sand SS, I recognized that the variation of bass was much larger then it shall be expected. After a bit thinking I concluded that the bass variation that I heard was not the variation in amplifiers but the variation amp’s output impedance. I decided to test it on practice and tock my Yamaha B2 amp and connected it to Model 19. The good part about B2 is that I have a comfortable full control of how I bias the output stage, so I begin to very accurately and very gradually slide the B2 bias from 20mA to 350mA. The bass of the Altec 19 was changing right in my eyes, perfectly reflecting the amp output. In fact I never had seen the speakers so sensitive to those things.  Apparently they have huge port reactance and I guess the best bet would be to have the amp’s current to damp the port reactance. The kink in it to damp it right before or right after the port dive making the speakers to produce what they call ”bass”. I was able to manage the Altec 19’s bass to very large degree. I do not claim that I was able to get bass that I feel it right bass but it was not my objective. My objective was to confirm that when idiots on-line sing the songs that Altec 19 has a good bass but to get there you need a good tube amplifier then they are expressing nothing more than idiocy.  Sure, the Altec 19’s bass channel needs current (power) but it also needs very precise amount of current to control the driver while the port is turning on. Picking different amps would hardly give a right level of precision – it needs to be continuously adjustable output impedance… Romy The caT

DonM wrote:

Romy, I have also noticed a difference in the response of my Altec 416A's with various amplifiers. My best rated amplifier the Bryston B60 was the worst and I could not listen to the speakers. I have been using a cheap Panasonic chip amp (SA-XR45) instead and it has provided the best results thus far. This comment is in no way an endorsement of this combination for others.  Thanks for posting the outcome of your test. DonM

Romy the Cat wrote:

DonM wrote: Romy, I have also noticed a difference in the response of my Altec 416A's with various amplifiers. My best rated amplifier the Bryston B60 was the worst and I could not listen to the speakers. I have been using a cheap Panasonic chip amp (SA-XR45) instead and it has provided the best results thus far. This comment is in no way an endorsement of this combination for others.  Thanks for posting the outcome of your test. DonM Don, as much as Altec 416 is OK driver as much problematic sound Altec 19 creates in bass. I think to get anything more or less useful out of it the Altec 19 much be biamped and the bass amp needs to deal with port current reactance. My main system is down during remodeling and I was listening for a couple days Altec 19 in my “opera” room. I got sick from this sound – all bass tones sound like one homogenous note. That made me to spend an hour to play with amp dumping… This whole thing needs to be reviewed – I do not think that chose amps is right direction to go. I do not have time not and frankly speaking the desire to do it nowadays. During the winter, when I will be setting up my “opera room” and if I chose to work with Altec 19, I might do it is…. The Cat

Dominik wrote:

And I take care to move driver back and forth:

I can see that 439 Altec-brewed white-trashes after reading the subject of this post run basement and begin to cut with table saw their stupid ears from their empty heads. Good for then, I am glad to be at service. No I do not propose to burn Altec 19 in fireplace, I propose to but in fireplace any retarded idiot who feel insulted by the fact that I consider that Altec 19 is shity loudspeaker.

The reality is that my Altec 19 is good for my fireplace and I use it “fireplace music”.  I play a lot of Altec 19 last week. My Koshka turned 20 year old on December 1 and I begin to develop some health problems that I work on. I love her immensely and it is hard to see her uncomfortable. We are together since she was 3 days old and when she was a little kitten on a few months she loved to sit at fireplace. Back in Philadelphia, where I use to live at that time, we spend long hours sitting at fireplace. She was biting fingers of my leg and I pretended that I am scare and that she is the most menacing Cat in universe.

Nowadays as the cold time come I begin to use fireplace extensively and she come back right to the place where she use to be 20 years back. We are spending quality time: I am sitting on my low buckwheat chair, stretching my legs to fireplace and she, hugging with her paws my whole leg. We are like 20 year back, only we are not….

I have a pair of Altec 19 sitting on the both sides of fireplace and on evening I played them in my fireplace room. Altec 19 can’t play classical music by default and suitable only for pop music. So, I spin Roger Water “Amused to Death” and alike. In reality it is absolutely irrelevant what kind loudspeakers I would use during my fireplace sessions, it happens that it is Altec 19. Does Altec Sound well in this environment with pop music. Who cares! As long as Koshka is comfortable and willing to hug my legs I do not care about Sound in my fireplace room.

I was trying to strategize what would I do it tomorrow someone get in touch with me and offer my $50K. In another words what would I do to convert the Altec 19 to Cetla Ledom?

This is an interesting discussion itself as it gives a blueprint for me what might be done with my Altecs closer to the next winter. For sure the people who know me do understand that my proposal to rebuild to somebody for $50K I not really my desire to practice audio enterprise but rather my desire to piss the Altec self-proclaimed aficionados. If you look at the Altec sites then you will see how the fucking idiots got pissed – I do experience a pleasure to tease a stupid angry dog with a plastic bone. I wools never do it with Cats – they are noble creatures but dogs, in particularly stupid barking little retarded irate dogs with no sense of own identity – they beg to treat them with contempt.  You got the picture.
Do not look at Russian dictionary trying to figure out what Cetla Ledom 19 is. The name is just revered reading of Altec Model 19 from right to left. So, what the Cetla Ledom 19 would encompass?

As I said I do like the Altec appearance, particularly with my fireplace in my unused room but the bind with mint condition pre-existing Altec 19 might be was not the best idea. There is a guy at eBya with user name ‘aquariumsolutions’ and he makes very good replica  of the Altec 19 cabinets. The great thing about this direction that he can made  for $700  a new boxes with minor adjustment in the dimension to accommodate the changes Altec 19 to Cetla 91. I have no interest to do it as I have already my Altec 19. It is what it is and I will stick with it.

The Cetla Ledom 19 will be 3-4 way acoustic system.  The people who read my site and who have own brain/ear do understed that any more or less serious horn installation imply no less than 5 channels but the Cetla Ledom will not be serious speaker it will be a good speaker for $50K or a good speaker for my fireplace room love to watch fire and to listen something like “Amused to Death”.

The very first step that must be done with Altec 19 is trashing the horrible Altec horns and introduction of normal lower MF channels. This will let the bass driver do not go to ridicules 1000Hz. So, here is how I see the Cetla Ledom complete:

1) Bass channel with 416 drivers as it is. The Altec 416 is a very good driver, for sure very stupidly used in the Model 19 type enclosure. I will keep it however as is with 250Hz lowpass second order.  The key is to use Cetla Ledom’s bass section will be the amplification, read about it below.

2) Lower MF channel. This will be my 18-sell multicell horn with JBL 2490 driver. I decided do not vandalize the appearance of my Macondo, so the multicell goes to the Cetla. I will re-paint it to wood color to match the Model 19 box and it will be it. The channel I presume will be carrying from 250 to 1000Hz, something sort of my Fundamental Channel at Macondo.. It will take HF out of the bass channel and it will take LF out of MF channel.

3) The MF channel. It will be Vitavox S3 or less likely S2 in the Vitavox “narrow” horn. Vitavox had 3 own horn and the “narrow” one I find was quite nice. Not as good as fast opening spherical but still acceptable. It will be high passed with whatever order and location that would give proper integration of it with   2490 and multicell. I think it will be somewhere around 1000Hz but I do not know the details yet. The MF horns I plan to put in the same location where the Altec has own MF horn. The mouth of the Vitavox horn are the same (near identical) size as the Altec opening for MF compartment.

4) At the very top it will be RAAL 101dB sensitive ribbon. I have them as left over from some kind of project that I do not remember about and it will do fine. The HF will be sitting above multicell and will kick in at 12kHz

5) The HF, MF and Lower MF will be time-aligned

6) The  Cetla Ledom will be bi-amped. The HF, MF and Lower MF that are all above 108dB sensitivity (ribbons so not need to have sensitivity match) will be driven by one amp with passive filters. The Bass channels will be driver by dedicated amps with ability to dial it the amp dumping. If somebody pays $50K then it will be completed 4Ch Class A SS amp with adjustable output impedance for bass amp – 416 driver is supper sensitive to loading in this configuration. If I leave the Cetla for myself then I will be using whatever I use and will not any by-amping as I will not need “proper bass” from this thing.

I think what I describe is a reasonable setting and I do not think that a Moron for his $50K will be able to get from the industry-sponsor speaker the Sound that he will be getting from Cetla. Tonally and dynamically it will be far beyond what the today gasoline-made driver are able to deliver. I will make sure that the complete speaker is well-balanced.