Jerry,

I got your Nanut CDs, thank you very much.  I did not send to you anything yet – I will. Too much going on my plate now… Not to mention that I recently change my recording software and I need to see how this time I will be converting my 88/24 into the CD former - that has been always problem for me as I do not do it regularly….

You were absolutely corrects the Anton Nanut is a wonderful conductor and his orchestra was a first class-band.  I am listening now the Beethoven’s Third – it is remarkably good. I kind of have difficult time to equate Nanut with other “reference” conductors. Nanut has own very delicate touch, delicate up to the point the make music fragile and toy-like. However, Nanut cares his fragile toy with accuracy with which we care a grandma’s vase - never break it and protect it at all cost.  The Nanut’s orchestra certainly is no German orchestra – it is too overly-articulation in macro details but it also has no dissecting characteristics of Mravinsky band… - very interesting indeed

Listening the Beethoven’s Third now I am amassed how easy they play this work.  The Eroica in different hands might sound as whatever you wish - It might be tragic or celebratory or whatever…  In the hands of the Nanut’s orchestra it sound like the Nanut is leading his Slovenian orchestra and they record soundtrack for Walt Disney’s Cartoons. It has that feeling of ease and smile with no visible efforts in any kind… Very interesting… It is not necessarily how I see this work  and I personally would play it differently (if I could play) but I very much applaud to what the Nanut’s orchestra did as it is very noble implemented own vision.

The only one problem I have with that performance of the Third is that is a studio recording. The studio recordings are home-cooking and they have none of that “raw dangerous” that live music. Perhaps I am too spoiled with my FM broadcast but with “live”, none-studio play the time is compress itself in a different manner and sounds become as parts of Realty instead of the part of Contrived Reality …. I will make sure that the music that I will send you will be “live”, non-studio performances…

BTW, I bought recently a box-set a Anton Nanut doing 10 Mahler Symphonies… did not listen them yet… I paid $2.99 for the entire box… it is kind of shame….

Anyhow, I really appreciate that you pushed me toward to “your” Nanut. Can I push you toward to “my” Golovanov?

Hi Romy

I'm glad the discs have arrived OK.  The Nanut Eroica is good - the Bruckner 8 is GREAT.  You must listen to it soon!

I also look forward to your thoughts about the Mahler 5 with Wyn Morris conducting ....

Golovanov?  I have never heard of him!  Push away.  I look forward to being converted.

Yes, you are very lucky having so many live recordings - there is often something a little 'earthbound' about studio recordings.

Re: the Mahler "Nanut set" - I think you might find that symphonies 2, 3, 7, 8 & 9 are not by Nanut after all.   But please let me know if I am wrong about that!

Rgds, Jerry

mats wrote:

I agree about the fragility but perhaps less so about "toy like". I am just now hearing for the first time Beethoven's 7th by Nanut and the second movement is very lovely, beautiful, mesmerizing and as the Eroica seemingly well understood by the performers…

JANDL100 wrote:

For me, the success of a Beethoven performance comes down to interpretation, not orchestral sound.

Not for me. I look for the “whole package” and not only in Beethoven. I do not relay collect “music” but rather “events” and in my view an “events” is a very fine melt of…. and interpretation, and recordings, and the “circumstances of the play”, and zillion attributes that create “Total Sound”.

In my search for Beethoven’s Sound I went over many stages and today I perceive Beethoven’s Sound as I describe above. The revelation of “how Beethoven shell sound” come to me when I was traveling in Germany a few years back and I was trying to sniff off the dust of Bavarian castles and haze of Pinaceae forests the “tone” of Beethoven’s music. I got that feeling then and from that moment I look for fulfillment of that feeling each time what I hear Beethoven.

I was searching for year a musical regeneration of that sensation and a few years ago I found it. I do not say that it is the best Beethoven performance (big subject!!!) but it is as close to my vision of Beethoven’s TONE as I even have heard form recorded performances or live attendance.

A wonderful Hungarian conductor Carl Melles performed in 90s a cycle of all Beethoven symphonies leading Brunswick State Orchestra. It was not the New Jersey Brunswick band but the “Staatsorchester Braunschweig” – probably the oldest orchestra in the world, founded in mid 16 century.  That orchestra played Beethoven during Beethoven's time…  Anyhow, I do not know what the reason is but the Sound that Braunschweig has in own sound that "ultimate Beethoven’s Sound" that I was looking in Beethoven. I got a CD of Brunswick's Beethoven1-3 symphonies (RAM 59511-2) and then bought all the rest Beethoven CDs Braunschweig ever recorded.

Be VERY careful with Carl Melles interpretations – it is painfully slow. It I so slow that you wish to die… but Braunschweig play it so slow because they are a very unique orchestra that … actually can do it. To play Beethoven so slow you need tremendous amount of “filling tone” of certain nobility… hear yourself what Braunschweig does and you will understand what I mean. If you willing to try but will not able to found Braunschweig recordings (practically imposable in US) then I might upload a demonstration file in here.

Try to listen Anthon Nanuet’s orchestra after the Carl Melles’ orchestra. With all wonderful play of Slovenian orchestra their “tone” sounds more like “toy Beethoven”… or as a Haydn band plays Beethoven…

On the second note – the Braunschweig recording on RAM label are all “live” and you need to hear the discipline of THOSE audiences – it is nothing short of phenomenal.

Romy the Cat wrote:

A wonderful Hungarian conductor Carl Melles performed in 90s a cycle of all Beethoven symphonies leading Brunswick State Orchestra. It was not the New Jersey Brunswick band but the “Staatsorchester Braunschweig” – probably the oldest orchestra in the world, founded in mid 16 century.  That orchestra played Beethoven during Beethoven's time…  Anyhow, I do not know what the reason is but the Sound that Braunschweig has in own sound that "ultimate Beethoven’s Sound" that I was looking in Beethoven. I got a CD of Brunswick's Beethoven1-3 symphonies (RAM 59511-2) and then bought all the rest Beethoven CDs Braunschweig ever recorded.

OK, boys, I doubt that it is possible for anybody to found Melles/Braunschweig recordings but I would like you guys hear what I was taking about, as the Melles/Braunschweig orchestra has the balance and style of play is my vision of how Beethoven shell be played.  Among whoever Beethoven I heard the only Melles orchestra can care that stingingly tasteful tempi, to hold those delicious poses, to play elegantly-soft and have absolutely mandatory for Beethoven lower-range “might” and confidence. What is most important is that Melles/Braunschweig does absolutely nothing impressive, showy or glitzy. They do not attack listener with overly articulated phrases as US orchestras do.  In Braunschweig each instrument and each section plays in fantastic harmony with recognition of own might and they do not do to show it off.  Pay attention how hugely respectful Braunschweig play, how much it let the “music to go”.  The Braunschweig play does not incarcerate music into presentational restrictions and juts let it very organically flow. It is like a ball that juts occasionally pushed/directed and the rest time just let to roll at own inertia. Also, pay attention the tonal balance of the orchestra, the relationship between the balance of the orchestra and the performing space’s natural acoustic and how Carl Melles used it all together with his tempi. It is what I call – the ultimate critical mass necessary to create the Beethoven’s chain reaction. The Melles/Braunschweig re like that old bull that has not needs to rush – they know where they go, how they go and what they will be doing when they arrive….

I have a tendency after I wasted another $100 listening my local BSO at Symphony Hall to return home, to warm up my playback and to play some recordings; the recordings that reinforce me that orchestral sound is not a sequence of sonic fasts performed by playing style of Broadway musicales…

I was thinking which fragment to show for you guys. Since this conversation derived from the Nanut’s Eroica then here is the opening of the Eroica’s their movement. It is 16/44 file and you can play if anywhere. Save the file on your machine first – do not play it off my sever. It is around 34 Meg

http://www.goodsoundclub.com/Audio_Files/B3_Melles.wav

JANDL100 wrote:

Re: the Mahler "Nanut set" - I think you might find that symphonies 2, 3, 7, 8 & 9 are not by Nanut after all.   But please let me know if I am wrong about that!

JANDL100 wrote:

Wow - Romy, that's quite a find. Nanut in Mahler 7  8 9 10 ?! - I MUST get them!  I have the other Nanut Mahler recordings already. Sadly, I can't find the set in the UK.  It's useful to know it exists though. And Romy, have you listened to Nanut's Bruckner 8 yet? ....   ;-)

I have nowadays a lot of new music, coming from different sores, a lot of more then I can to “processes”; I have perhaps 50 CDs that I “need” to listen. I do not juts listen them one after another but I need to develop a certain state of internal readiness to listen one or peace of music, I am slowly doing there… I did not listen your Bruckner 8 yet as I have been not “tuned” for this work for the last few days. It will be there…

Yes, I did listen the Mahler 5 by Wyn Morris. It was good but it further reinforced my why I ultimately do not like Mahler. BTW, did you hear Hermann Scherchen leading ORTF Orchestra performing the M5? If you do not then you might get it, well worth it…

BTW, I got Nanut and Ljubljana Tchaikovsky. It was not just horrible but atrocious. I actually through away the CD from a window of my car…

clarkjohnsen wrote:

… but the Third Concerto with Lars Vogt was decidedly different and very tasty! The pianist, instead of just doing runs and spinning notes in repeated passages, injected linguistics into them, making every note in an otherwise seemingly pedestrian sequence say something….

JANDL100 wrote:

Yes, please - I would very much like copies of Nanut conducting Mahler 7 8 9 & 10 - that would be wonderful!   (I will put together some more, interesting CDRs for you too!).

JANDL100 wrote:

I am not sure I would go so far as to throw Nanut's Tchaikovsky out of the window (!)

JANDL100 wrote:

Yes, please - I would very much like copies of Nanut conducting Mahler 7 8 9 & 10 - that would be wonderful!   (I will put together some more, interesting CDRs for you too!).

Romy the Cat wrote:

JANDL100 wrote: Yes, please - I would very much like copies of Nanut conducting Mahler 7 8 9 & 10 - that would be wonderful!   (I will put together some more, interesting CDRs for you too!). Jerry, I forgot to ask. I have sent to you quit a while back a pile of CD, including the Nanut’s late Mahler symphony. Did you have a chance to get/listen them? The caT