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02-17-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
ygoh
Posts 4
Joined on 02-17-2008

Post #: 41
Post ID: 6687
Reply to: 5901
Double drivers
Romy,

I'm new here, and I have read your posts in the forum.  I have some questions that relate to this post of yours: 'The midbass horn is a pain in ass, a big pain!!! The GOTO-Jackson horn went for the very noble small throat size – something that I advocate for a long time and something that horn public does not buy yet. Sure the horn’s length is the punishment in the case of small throat size but it is what it is and if you do not like it then use direct radiator in bass-reflex enclosure. I do not support the GOTO idea to load two drivers in the same throat. I believe the idea is very moronic as it compromise unanimity of excursion.'

1.) Why is it that you do not support using teo compression drivers in the same throat?   Is the distortions increases, such as wavefront distortion?

1a.) Is the 2nd harmonic distortion also increase with two compression drivers in the same throat?

2.) What are the main reasons of using two compression drivers at the same throat, beside shortening the horn's length?

3.) Do you agree that with using shorter (mouth dimensions is unchanged) horn will not decrease the 'loudness' or efficiency, as efficiency does not depend on the length of the horn, but efficiency depends on throat's area and the drivers itself?

4.) Do you also agree that by shortening the horn, you loose lower frequency?  Another word, the lower cut off frequency increases?

5.) In your opinion, what's the best shape, for the least distortions, bass horn?  tractrix, exponential, or conical?   circular or rectangular?

Thank you
02-17-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
ygoh
Posts 4
Joined on 02-17-2008

Post #: 42
Post ID: 6688
Reply to: 5901
Double drivers
 Jeffrey Jackson wrote:
........he has listened to Goto's advice quite a bit.. they have very strong thoughts on how to do things... some you will find humorous, others you will agree with... they beleive that electronics don't really matter.. the driver is the primary importance above all others... to them, it is silly to buy expensive electronics if you do not have double drivers on all your horns.. (I do not believe in this, at all) .. they also do not believe in time alignment... I have heard the amazing transformation that time alignment brings, both with digital correction and with physical alignment... Goto says the drivers can just go anywhere.. their philosophy is that a low distortion loudspeaker is the most important thing...

double drivers... I am with you on double drivers... I understand that it shortens a horn.. to me, that is usually a bad direction.. length helps with loading.. especially in the lower frequencies... (at high frequencies I tend to like short horns, subjectively)... I also find that double drivers in the mids and up confuse things a bit.. a touch "blurry"... but I must say that I know two people who liked double drivers in the 300 to 1500 range better than single.. do note that both have *large* rooms... also note that Ming'shorn has adequate length at over 8' for a 60Hz flare...
1.) Can you explain using double drivers 'confuse things a bit'?

2.) Principally it should work the same, no?


 Jeffrey Jackson wrote:
.... the rear chamber and reactance annulling... yes, I know this subject very well... it makes a very audible difference... and deserves our attention... Bell Labs actually published a formula for source impedance with regards to horn impedance.. it was quite enlightening.. they used very high output impedance amps with their horns... and, yes, they had *giant* aluminum diapragmed compression driven bass horns... interesting, no?

the throat of Ming's horn is two times 100 mm diameter openings, I believe... I did not build the dual throat adaptor.... the drivers are quite impressive in scale.. the pictures make them seem smaller than life... but I do wish we could have the rear chambers modified for the task, as you pointed out... Goto, as far as I know, does not do this for any of their horns... for each driver they sell a few different size horns.. and no changes to teh driver.........
1.) What's that formula to calculate the back chamber volume given a throat reactance?

2.) Would it be a bigger back chamber with higher reactance at the throat?   or vice versa?
02-17-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,131
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 43
Post ID: 6689
Reply to: 5901
"We do not need no education"

 ygoh wrote:
1.) Why is it that you do not support using teo compression drivers in the same throat?   Is the distortions increases, such as wavefront distortion?
Sure the wavefront gets spread; it is what Wilson does in his WAMM system. The drivers are never the same. There are always are small between them, so what you have two drivers, with own necks to drive the same throat it is an opportunity for problems. I do not even go into the discussion how the axes of two drivers face the same not perpendicular throat. Try to angle a single driver from the horn throat or offset their centers – you will see the result. How pretend that you have two 45 degree drivers firing into the same hole.
 ygoh wrote:
2.) What are the main reasons of using two compression drivers at the same throat, beside shortening the horn's length?
Increase pressures nothing else. Double drivers do not shorten the horn's length – the double size throat does it. The double compression drivers use very commonly in past. Do not forget however that compression drivers in past were only about developing maximum acoustic pressure, there was very little consideration about quality of sound. Put in this way- they were not applied consideration and way less inferior then what he have noonday for home system. So, the RCA, Altec, Klangfilm  and whoever else in past make the stupid double drivers configurations to get more yelps form little amps in order to sound reinforce larger areas…
 ygoh wrote:
3.) Do you agree that with using shorter (mouth dimensions is unchanged) horn will not decrease the 'loudness' or efficiency, as efficiency does not depend on the length of the horn, but efficiency depends on throat's area and the drivers itself?
Efficiency depends from profile and varies slightly. Efficiency is less important factor. The important one is an equalization at a given frequency or the horn equalization diagraphs. I have no idea what it is not being used
 ygoh wrote:
4.) Do you also agree that by shortening the horn, you loose lower frequency?  Another word, the lower cut off frequency increases?
Sure, a longer horn means the higher ratio between mouth and throat, means more LF boost and more HF roll off.
 ygoh wrote:
1.) What's that formula to calculate the back chamber volume given a throat reactance?

2.) Would it be a bigger back chamber with higher reactance at the throat?   or vice versa?

 You do not need any formulas. Use the guideless form this post: Practical Guide for Back Chambers Tuning.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
02-17-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
ygoh
Posts 4
Joined on 02-17-2008

Post #: 44
Post ID: 6690
Reply to: 5901
Double drivers
 Romy the Cat wrote:

 ygoh wrote:
1.) Why is it that you do not support using teo compression drivers in the same throat?   Is the distortions increases, such as wavefront distortion?
Sure the wavefront gets spread; it is what Wilson does in his WAMM system. The drivers are never the same. There are always are small between them, so what you have two drivers, with own necks to drive the same throat it is an opportunity for problems. I do not even go into the discussion how the axes of two drivers face the same not perpendicular throat. Try to angle a single driver from the horn throat or offset their centers – you will see the result. How pretend that you have two 45 degree drivers firing into the same hole.
 ygoh wrote:
2.) What are the main reasons of using two compression drivers at the same throat, beside shortening the horn's length?
Increase pressures nothing else. Double drivers do not shorten the horn's length – the double size throat does it. The double compression drivers use very commonly in past. Do not forget however that compression drivers in past were only about developing maximum acoustic pressure, there was very little consideration about quality of sound. Put in this way- they were not applied consideration and way less inferior then what he have noonday for home system. So, the RCA, Altec, Klangfilm  and whoever else in past make the stupid double drivers configurations to get more yelps form little amps in order to sound reinforce larger areas…
 ygoh wrote:
3.) Do you agree that with using shorter (mouth dimensions is unchanged) horn will not decrease the 'loudness' or efficiency, as efficiency does not depend on the length of the horn, but efficiency depends on throat's area and the drivers itself?
Efficiency depends from profile and varies slightly. Efficiency is less important factor. The important one is an equalization at a given frequency or the horn equalization diagraphs. I have no idea what it is not being used
 ygoh wrote:
4.) Do you also agree that by shortening the horn, you loose lower frequency?  Another word, the lower cut off frequency increases?
Sure, a longer horn means the higher ratio between mouth and throat, means more LF boost and more HF roll off.
 ygoh wrote:
1.) What's that formula to calculate the back chamber volume given a throat reactance?

2.) Would it be a bigger back chamber with higher reactance at the throat?   or vice versa?

 You do not need any formulas. Use the guideless form this post: Practical Guide for Back Chambers Tuning.

The Cat
Thank you for your reply....

1.) Can you explain a little more what you mean by '....the discussion how the axes of two drivers face the same not perpendicular throat. Try to angle a single driver from the horn throat or offset their centers – you will see the result. How pretend that you have two 45 degree drivers firing into the same hole.'?

1a.) How do you mean by two drivers face the same not perpendicular throat....'?

2.) So in the case where I want to shorten the length of horn, then would it be better to use larger compression driver with larger diaphragm than using two of them, yes?
02-18-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,131
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 45
Post ID: 6694
Reply to: 5901
The multiple drivers: when sound in horn changes.
Ygoh,
 
Most of compression drivers have phase plug. A phase plug is very genomic center line oriented devise. A phase plug must be parallel to diaphragms and perpendicular to the axis of the driver. Practically all compression drivers have begging of the horn inside of the driver so the initial throat that the front chamber sees is not the throat of the horn but the throat of the driver. The little internal beginning of the horn has own genomic axis and this axis must be well-aligned with axis of horn. If you take a distortion analyzer or even a good RTA and will move a compression driver a few mm in relation to the throat of the horn then you will see that it will highly affect measurements. In a horn with multiple drivers the phase-plugs are a wasted devise to begin with. Moreover, even if we presume that the drivers are absolutely identical then they, just because of the geometry, form an ugly resonating chamber in front of the adaptor output – a resonating chamber in a horn? Not a good idea. Do not forget that sound in horn changes what the surface changes and the rule #1 is that surface shell change gradually. Any sudden change = reflection and resonance chamber. Pressure curves excellently. Sound does not. The multiple drivers with the stupid labyrinths before the horn’s throat? Come on, it is not serious. People try to bend mouth of the horn and very seldom get any more or less acceptable result. To bend a waveguide right before throat is too devastating and the most important - not necessary. The double, triple or quadruple compression drivers is a tribute to a stupid persons who have seen it implements at some kind of old crappy cinema system or at some air-defense alert system. Why “stupid person”? Because anyone why imitate without understanding what he mimics is not too smart. I would not even go into the subject of multiple drivers as a sales opportunity…  BTW, there are other problems with multiple drives besides what I have mentioned...

Romy the caT


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
02-18-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Wojtek
Pinckney (MI), United States
Posts 178
Joined on 09-01-2005

Post #: 46
Post ID: 6695
Reply to: 5901
Multiple drivers VS Multiple (MMTM) midbass horns
I still remember proposed solution for symetrical TAD 1201 horn loaded midbass sections. Was it to free listener from sweet spot low seat position ? I could imagine that that midbass horn performing up to 1000Hz sitting low on the floor would impair   ballance of  sound in realtively near field listening in any other position (standing up , walking arround )  Would second identical midbas horn allow for more freedom without compromising quality also boosting up efficiency in the mid bass channel or it's just a waste of resources or is "resonating channel '' the option or maybe "resonanting "upper midbass horn could serve both purposes (I admint not following closely "oops channel"-thread). Regards
W
02-24-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
be
Copenhagen, Denmark
Posts 86
Joined on 02-12-2007

Post #: 47
Post ID: 6775
Reply to: 5901
GOTO confusion.
"Hm, I dont really know about this, I heard a GOTO system with the GOTO 505 in the GOTO 150 Hz horn and I found it to go anemic in the lower range, I think a FANE M8, that I heard briefly during some experiments, would do better in this range with a similar horn.
I dont think it is a coincidence that GOTO systems sometimes have two parallel drivers on the lower midrange horns."


Sorry I made a blunder.
The GOTO unit in the low midrange I heard, was not a of the type 505 but GOTO SG-570 BL.
I just talked with the now former owner of the GOTO system and realised my mistake.
02-24-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,131
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 48
Post ID: 6776
Reply to: 5901
The Goto confusion indeed.

Thanks, Be, for a correction but the fun part is no one acknowledged your blander. The Goto drivers I think are exotic terra incognito for most people and I think it is how Goto Company is willing to keep it. No one talk about nuts and bolt of Goto compressions driver, trying to convince the parties of interest in Goto’s alleged design advancement. Not one talks about Sound from Goto drivers. I wonder what ideas Goto-Company and Goto-resellers have that would make their driver more popular than they are now. The only exposure that I see from Goto is adolescently-designed installation with system owners too full of themselves to even to cognitively recognize what Sound they are getting out of own playback.

I think if Goto is willing to go somewhere and if Mulg is willing to sale that 56 feet boat on Lake Erie bought for the money of Goto distribution, then those Goto people need to talk a little about themselves and about own products. Avantgarde could press zillion of their horn but the Avantgarde business started what AG’s US distributor opened his month (and Avantgarde ended what he shut up). Ming site should have a lot of context and the site should be interactive. The site should have a lot is service information about horns, frames, crossovers, success stories. Goto should be presented as an equitable competitor to JBL and TAD and the results that Goto demonstrate should be convincing to use them. Goto shells try to sell their driver as EOM to other horn manufactures…  I can go on and on but Goto is not there.

The price for Goto drivers in Japanese catalos is reasonable. The “street price” in Japan is even 30-50% lower. The US prices are in tense thousands that clearly indicate that there is a room for investment into the drivers’ publicity. Perhaps a situation what Goto sell 10 drivers per year is something that Goto feels comfortable but I feel different. My feeling is that until Goto will not be widely available and widely used by more or less civilized users then Goto (as a company) will not learn how to make better drivers. Ming is a new US distributor and let see where he we take Goto. There are some distributors who juts move boxes and there those who do active product development. The time will show where Goto will lend in the hierarchy of horns opportunities.

Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
09-15-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Kcct82
Beijing, China
Posts 23
Joined on 09-08-2008

Post #: 49
Post ID: 8270
Reply to: 6593
YL Driver Images
I pulled these images from a Japanese 2nd hand store. I understand that Goto used to work at YL so I thought these images might go with Johan's description about the insides.  

09-15-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Johan Dreyer
Posts 5
Joined on 02-05-2007

Post #: 50
Post ID: 8274
Reply to: 8270
Goto






09-15-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Kcct82
Beijing, China
Posts 23
Joined on 09-08-2008

Post #: 51
Post ID: 8275
Reply to: 8274
The Goto Screw Mount
Hello Johan,

Great pics, the diaphragm appears really thin, almost like gold leaf for guilding...

I have a question about the screw mount that Goto uses. Did you by any chance find some kind of flange (for pipes) that would work as an adaptor? Perhaps it is a standard size? I asked because I ordered a pair of 505TT and S150 horns recently (waiting for them to arrive) and I plan on making a pair of 150hz tractrix horns later. I'm stuck on how I'll connect the driver to a DIY MDF horn. Thanks

Best Regards,
Keith
09-15-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,131
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 52
Post ID: 8276
Reply to: 8274
The Goto’s diaphragms
Interning, Johan, looking at the pictures, pictures at the middle pictures, it looks like the diaphragm is surrounded in some kind of plastic cocoon. Is it how it is doe in Goto or is it just a problem with the given phonograph?

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
09-15-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Kcct82
Beijing, China
Posts 23
Joined on 09-08-2008

Post #: 53
Post ID: 8277
Reply to: 6689
The Goto Back Chamber
 ygoh wrote:
1.) What's that formula to calculate the back chamber volume given a throat reactance?

2.) Would it be a bigger back chamber with higher reactance at the throat?   or vice versa?

 You do not need any formulas. Use the guideless form this post: Practical Guide for Back Chambers Tuning.

The Cat

Romy,

Looking at the pics Johan posted, I don't even see a back chamber. I mean, would you call the space between the diaphragm bulge and magnet the back chamber? If so, I don't think it'll be easy if not impossible to "tune" Goto's mid-bass/bass drivers provided they are made the same way as Johan's high mid driver. What do you think?

Best Regards,
Keith
09-15-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,131
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 54
Post ID: 8278
Reply to: 8277
Don't even see a back chamber...
Yes, Keith,
 
it is how they usually do with front-exited drivers where the back chamber not vented. Some would put a texture on the plate of magnet, some put felt dampers. It look like then have some kind of indentation in there I have no idea what it is. I think it is possible to “tune” this back chamber up in the frequency scale by putting under the diaphragms a space-filing cone. I do not think that there is a way to tune the back change down and it would require drilling the drive’s poll. I have to note that is absolutely unpredictable how the driver might behave reacting to the back chamber expansion or damping. The cone looks very hard-suspended, I dealt very few with those types of hard-suspended cones… I think the mid-bass/bass cone will have more outer superstation.

The caT


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
09-15-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Johan Dreyer
Posts 5
Joined on 02-05-2007

Post #: 55
Post ID: 8280
Reply to: 8278
Throat
Keith

Goto's recommendation is to buy the throat piece of a S150 horn(It comes in 2 pieces).Then have the horn cut to the exact diameter of your tractrix and have a flange welded on.They made a special adapter for my mid horn,but recommended the above for the SG505




Romy

it is a reflection in the photo.There is no cocoon
11-21-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Kcct82
Beijing, China
Posts 23
Joined on 09-08-2008

Post #: 56
Post ID: 8923
Reply to: 8280
Throat Piece and other things...
fiogf49gjkf0d
Thanks Johan, I got my SG505's and S150 horns, my throat piece is a lot longer than the one you showed above. Why can't they just sell that little screw... along with lots of other "why can't they"...

Anyway, I just reread this thread and I can make some comments... My dad and I used the BMS coaxial religiously for a few years, I can add another "BMS sucks" to this thread as if Romy hasn't said it enough. I'd also like to suggest a nice way to use BMS products for upperbass and up. Put the non coaxial version BMS (4591) on 140hz tractrix starting at 300hz and cross it to BMS coxial at 1200hz on smaller Tractrix.  Now you have a pretty good looking setup along with nice graphs to show people, but unfortunately that's also the recipe for creating complete sh!t. Oh and don't forget if you plan on hanging midbass horn from above then you just saved 3 inches of vertical "tweeter" space because it's "coaxial"!

On to other things... now that we've been using the GOTO SG505 for a while, the verdict is that it does not sound good below 290hz. We found the same problem "Be" stated earlier in this thread:

"I heard a GOTO system with the GOTO 505 in the GOTO 150 Hz horn and I found it to go anemic in the lower range"

"The sound of the Goto 505 in the lower range was similiar to what you hear from a 8" woofer trying to do what a 15" can in the bass.
Although the sound was clean as free of distortions, it lacked impact and authority."


IMG_8654.jpg

Keith
11-21-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,131
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 57
Post ID: 8924
Reply to: 8923
Might it be the faulty GOTO crossover politics?
fiogf49gjkf0d

 Kcct82 wrote:
On to other things... now that we've been using the GOTO SG505 for a while, the verdict is that it does not sound good below 290hz.

As I understand you use the GOTO SG505 in 150Hz horn and report that it does not sound good below 290Hz. If so then it would be interesting to know what was wrong specifically with sound.

There are only 2 reasons why it does not sound good: problem with horn and problem with driver. You might test them independently buy I do not thing that it is the drivers but rather wrong driver for a wrong horn as I feel that got is kind of damn about it. 

What high-pass filter you use? Although the GOTO’s Ming said that GOTO recommend using first order crossovers but I presume that they begin to do it after reading and learning from this site as few years back.  Formerly GOTO insisted to use 4th order only and it frankly might be for good reasons – theirs drivers are too generic and nonspecific. My perception of proximity of crossover point to the horns’ rates based upon relatively fast opening horns. GOTO horns open very slow and the slow-opening horn might need 1-2 octaves at the bottom in order do not have the “boom”. Here is where the GOTO demands for 4th order came from.  In the following post:

http://www.goodsoundclub.com/GetPost.aspx?PostID=8750

Ming Su, as an official GOTO rep, put GOTO drivers into 1-st order camp. It is very god in my view as the 1-st order is the way how it must  be done but the system shell be designed and thought out initially to be able to work within 1-st order. GOTO were not thinking in context of first order to begin with, the park of their drivers, their horns are a clear indication that GOTO allays were minded about high-order crossovering system. So, what Ming Su said sound sexy for the ears of cogent horn aficionados but it might be not supported by the GOTO products. I do not think that what Ming had any sinister intend. To state that GOTO is “1-order comply” system sounds good (particularly fro the reads of this site), it is might be even something that GOTO people begin to believe in themselves. However, I think that looking in the way in which they sliced the audio range among the drivers and the characteristic of the drivers themselves I presume that they had very high order in their minds.

So, if GOTO SG505 in 150Hz horn does not sound well 290Hz then I would sharpen the filter and to see if it get better. Most likely the slow opening of the GOTO horn with it’s long pipe get too much saturated with extensive for the given profile LF.  It is highly possible that the legend of “slow opening horns has better bass” might derived expectedly from this misperception: people might recognize the choking sound of the slow opening horns as “more bass” from horns.

If you more describe in your own words the specifics of the sound below 290Hz then it would help identify if my assumption is “hot” or “cold”.

The caT


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
11-18-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,131
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 58
Post ID: 12318
Reply to: 8270
Some Goto SG-146LD images
fiogf49gjkf0d
It is 4” exit and reportedly goes down to 27Hz. I do not know what a lot about this diver but it might be a good driver for 40Hz horn. 4” into 40hz? God, it has to be at least 16 feet long horn! I would take my head off to somebody who goes for it. As a criticism I do not see on this driver the ways to adjust resonance frequency. Those vents on the back looks like cover with pressure-semi-transparent material, the same way as many Japanese do in headphones to get LF from small volume and therefore the vent most likely acts as a damper. So, I presume if to load the driver into the horn and then to glue over the vent different pressure-semi-transparent material then it would be possible to drive the Fs up and down to play with throat reactance. Still, kill me but I have no idea why they need so many magnets, if it is magnet. If they have the cone moves for 3” then it might be the case but I think their cone move not as much this huge amount of magnet is not sensible in my view. Let pretend that the cone has 6” voice coil and to saturate this type of gap to 2.4T would be necessary much less neodymium mass. Perhaps they have inefficient magnetic system with a lot of wasted stray filed? It is hard to say anything certainly. Goto feels that it is beneath them to publish the magnetic density numbers. It would be interesting to crawl around this SG-146LD driver with a gaussmeter and to see it is toss any magnetism. But where did you see a Goto owner who would be critical to his drivers….

Goto_4Inch_BassDriver_1.jpg

Goto_4Inch_BassDriver_3.jpg

Goto_4Inch_BassDriver_2.jpg




"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
01-11-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
twogoodears


Italy
Posts 116
Joined on 03-26-2008

Post #: 59
Post ID: 12676
Reply to: 12318
Buttkickers' subbass drivers: an interesting or a crazy option?
fiogf49gjkf0d
The entry ticket (a 3-digits figure, incl. a dedicated, Class D amp) for the "try it" isn't hideous like a pair or a quartet of SG-146LDs, but I'd love reading your opinion(s) on the following...  as my "dream", my vision would be: 200-20khz multi-amped ALL horn upper-ways (three?) AND one pair of vibes-only, floor-bolted 16-200 hz Buttkickers' drivers...

http://twogoodears.blogspot.com/2010/01/ears-and-hearing-again-about-watts-and.html
 
Would be REALLY a groundshaking;-), completely new field... not only cheap Surround home-cinema, BUT high(est) fidelity and no more woofers limits...

... or no?

    


"Use your ears as your eyes" - Gertrude Stein

Stefano
01-12-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,131
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 60
Post ID: 12687
Reply to: 12676
A redneck's bass audiodildo?
fiogf49gjkf0d

To use a Class D amp on those SG-146LD GOTO drivers? Is it what GOTO proposes? Hm, I do not know, the more I learn about them the more question I their sanity. The SG-146LD does not adjustable resonance frequency. It means that in whatever horn it will be used it will have no option to dial the resonance frequency to the given horn reactance. The only one minor way to do so for people on the filed would be to tune the SG-146LD loading to an amp. However, the Class D amps have no sensible loading. They are animals what will drive anything and will push senseless through anything….

About those shaking devises – I truly hate them. I mean I did not hear them, I heard a few similar but I truly hated the concept that I feel is fundamentally faulty. All those “shaking” anticipations are pure inventions of bad marketing and former experiences of bad audio. There are no shaking events in live sound. Did you even have any shaking experiences or body pressure during live music? I do not mean the pop/rock/jazz crap but I mean the live play of musical instilments when sound is created by natural vibration of subject in air. You can listen a 35”organ and you will never feel any body vibration. Never!

In audio the morons build up the atmosphere pressure before then build up tonal pressure and to insult the injuries they now stick in the brains of already fucked audiophiles a dildo of shaking sensation. Wonderful! Let wait until it will make the TAS recommended component of the year…

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
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