Jorge wrote:

Actually a Tapped Horn would be bigger than a sealed enclosure,  here is one of my first TH tests.  The sound is very different than the sound coming form a Sealed encolsure.  My first impression was that the bass was gone!  There was no bass sensation in the room anymore, no chest thumping, lets say (which is a wrong term). After a while you realize that the bass is there and all the frequencies played by the instruments are present,  it sounds like a bass is playing in the room,  but we have grown accostumed to hearing sealed and ported enclosure bass, and IME this bass generates a sort of accompanying bass sound that is not generated by any instrument,  a sort of fat bass sound that can be very rewarding.  Lets just say that TH  bass is much cleaner and generates a different "bass sensation" in the room.  Once you get used to it, it is very difficult to go back to boxed bass. I find the sound similar to what a Mid bass horn woud play.  Romy what differences in sound did you find when you changed from your Scanspeak Bass array to the big MB horns?

Rewind wrote:

Macman: Maybe your tapped horns were too small. Speedysteve is absolutely in love with his, and you and him have a very similar setup with your 15" upper midbass horn and all.

Macman wrote:

Rewind wrote: Macman: Maybe your tapped horns were too small. Speedysteve is absolutely in love with his, and you and him have a very similar setup with your 15" upper midbass horn and all. Yes, Im sure you could make them better. I believe I was a little greedy when I designed them. I think I should have settled with a 10Hz higher cutoff. I have heard two tapped horns and they both have that the same issues that I wrote about above. As Romy stated of course it might be the room but I wont go back to Tapped horns, been there... moving on /Marcus

speedysteve wrote:

I have found that 8th order X/O works best with them and I cross at 90Hz these days.  4th order is ok but you get minor colourations and some bleed through that just aren't a distraction on 8th order. The bass horn takes over form there and it gels very well for me. I also found them unusable in an average UK sized room  without  a couple of PEQ corrections to fix room modes / tune to my taste.  Once done, the bass weight, speed / impact and depth are to my liking.

Romy the Cat wrote:

speedysteve wrote: I have found that 8th order X/O works best with them and I cross at 90Hz these days.  4th order is ok but you get minor colourations and some bleed through that just aren't a distraction on 8th order. The bass horn takes over form there and it gels very well for me. I also found them unusable in an average UK sized room  without  a couple of PEQ corrections to fix room modes / tune to my taste.  Once done, the bass weight, speed / impact and depth are to my liking. Hm, the 8th order high-pass X/O mixed with low pass upper bass horn? This is very strange. I do not know the taped horn’s upper knee character but from what you do, suffocating the uppperbass’s upper bass it does not sound that taped horn is too pretty.

speedysteve wrote:

Well, I think it is horses for courses and the tapped horns are a bit of a different gigi.     I found it is imperative to suffocate the rubbish that is coming out of tapped horns above say 100Hz - mine are sized to work from around 20Hz to 90Hz. Below this there is great bass deep bass to be had - well at least I like it.      The mid bass / upper bass I do not use such a slope. 2nd order on the upper knee of my bass at 330Hz and same for the lower knee of the mid horns. Above that I like 2nd order and then on the upper mids and tweeter 1st order. That is the current set.

Romy the Cat wrote:

speedysteve wrote: Well, I think it is horses for courses and the tapped horns are a bit of a different gigi.     I found it is imperative to suffocate the rubbish that is coming out of tapped horns above say 100Hz - mine are sized to work from around 20Hz to 90Hz. Below this there is great bass deep bass to be had - well at least I like it.      The mid bass / upper bass I do not use such a slope. 2nd order on the upper knee of my bass at 330Hz and same for the lower knee of the mid horns. Above that I like 2nd order and then on the upper mids and tweeter 1st order. That is the current set.   Ok, the upperbass that you have I think it was something around 125Hz. Regardless what kind profile and size of the horn you have we all know what kind lower knew decay uppperbass has, even in a smallish room it is “large” but  “thin”.  Then you have LF section, the trapped horn that you decided to stop with brick-filter. That reasonably long tail from LF is important in my view. If you have rubbish out of tapped horns above 100Hz then it is problem of tapped horn, not the problem of uppperbass.  The brick-filter shall swing phase super violently in addition to everything else… Anyhow, I would not use any topology that demands 8th order filter. I wonder: at 90Hz the trapped horn makes “good bass”   but at 120Hz it gives rubbish? Are you listening mostly rick-n-roll?

noviygera wrote:

Romy, I have somewhat different possibilities than you are seeing. My system is physically higher than most because my listening position is at standing height or sitting in a high stool. I have used this litening height for a few years and grew to appreciate for a number of reasons (worth separate discussion). One of which is increased space under the midrange horn and less interaction from floor.  So I gain about 20" of height below mid. In fact I measure easy 46" from floor to mid horn edge. Another contraversial thing I use is DSP crossover. It is not perfect but I have DELAY in my arsenal! So I can use full length horn. This, at least covers TWO of your rightly noted concerns. Does this open options to continue discussion further? If so I am happy to further formulate my requirements. 1. Gracefully integration with midrange horn at 250-300hz with 6db/oct crossover and absolutely no allowed EQ. 2. Staright rectangular or five sided vs folded: this is something I do not know.

noviygera wrote:

Also you say: "In reality the driver is the key"So let me ask for advice on suitable driver(s). This be my next step. Need I select a size? Or driver with certain spec? For example lets say driver "x" is good for this range and has been tried and proven. What is your recommendation on driver for this range? Or better way to look at this, HOW do you recommend to select the driver? For example, you use Fane Studio 8 in a different range with different horn but maybe this driver will also work in my application? No? ok, but what qualifies the driver? Or is it purely coincidental match? Is it the case that all 400watt treated paper pro drivers should not be even considered, etc.

noviygera wrote:

You provided very good starting points on the driver selection and I am also corresponding with a gentleman that may help me with actual horn design. I have found a couple of drivers that seem to work based on your guidelines. They are pro sound 10" to 12" with Fs around 50-55hz. Is it the case that driver size should be no more than certain diameter to sound decent in 60 to 300hz range? Such as, 15" being too large I need to look at no more than 12"? It looks like current hifi drivers are out question and anything remotely suitable is going to be PA. ps. Correction: I just noticed that Fostex 8" full range drivers meet those specs and have very low power handling (maybe too low).

noviygera wrote:

Romy, You make very, very good points now I am re-evaluating this all-in-one horn concept. I do know one thing that I learned from my current system. Midbass horn that rolls off below 120 hz and integrated with sub is not good. I have struggled with this format for 2 years with no successful solution and this led me to explore a more expanded midbass channel. The transition from 120hz horn to direct radiator subs is not possible to be seamless without significant loss of focused sound.