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07-26-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
chaos
Vienna
Posts 23
Joined on 06-27-2008

Post #: 101
Post ID: 7900
Reply to: 7894
Rectangular horn..
its easy to calculate with hornresponse, it can calculate the horn with exponential flare on all sides or with 2 flat sides or with "uniform flare on all sides. you can choose width-height of throat and mouth. if you wish, i can mail you the modified xls horn calc i use, gives you a autocad file. or you give me the cutoff, throat size and width-height ratio of the mouth and i mail the autocad file. its done in minutes....

carbon price:i mailed a german pricelist, less than 20€/sqm.

cheers,klaus
07-26-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
chaos
Vienna
Posts 23
Joined on 06-27-2008

Post #: 102
Post ID: 7901
Reply to: 7894
Composite sandwich
i dont think its necessary to use that much expensive fabric. i will use only 1 layer of a nice looking fabric on the inside of the horn, then a cheap heavier layer, then foam.
maybe i´m wrong, but as far as i see it, the whole thing has to be stiff on the outside. will make the horn in a way to survive a "explosion" on the throat, the pressure will try to expand the horn to the outside, so it should make sense to use unidirectional inlays on the outside. inlays are much cheaper than fabric and stronger in one direction.
of course i will have to make a mold to put some pressure on the whole thing(because of the different fiber layers on the in-and outside), but this is easy. at least i hope so:-)
if you step on a board which is supported on the edges, the bottom side has to be strong. will ask in a physics forum about the direction of forces in a horn. of course they will know even less than me about horns, but this is physics..explosion at the throat of the horn.
outside of my horn will be a 4mm sheet of birch-plywood, my gf demands it;-)))
could look ok, the contrast of the different materials...hitec vs natural..

cheers,klaus
07-26-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
jessie.dazzle


Paris, France
Posts 456
Joined on 04-23-2006

Post #: 103
Post ID: 7902
Reply to: 7900
Calculations
Klaus,

Thanks very much for the offer to help.

I have a copy of the latest version of HornResp (and also of WinISP Normal and Pro versions).

To be honest, I haven't yet tried either... Been using my "cousins's" (Jean-Michel Le Cléac'h) Excel-based program (you can "tell it" to do exponential) and another online java-based program. (I used HornCalc for the other (tractrix) horns).

HornResp might turn out to be ok just as a curve generation application.

So you say you have a modified version of HornResp that outputs AutoCad data... Intersting.

A private email is available if you click on my pseudonym (use name) at the left of one of my posts.

In the mean time I will give HornResp a look.

jd*



How to short-circuit evolution: Enshrine mediocrity.
07-26-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
chaos
Vienna
Posts 23
Joined on 06-27-2008

Post #: 104
Post ID: 7903
Reply to: 7902
Hornresponse...
for me its a nice little help, just to get a feeling how horns behave. but i did not modify hornresponse(would not be able to do;-), just changed volvotreter´s xls -horncalculator a little bit. you have to paste the values of hornresponse to the xls-file, can send you my 62hz horn file as example if you like. i already mailed you a pricelist for carbonfibers, dont want to pollute the forum with things like this.


cheers,klaus
07-26-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
jessie.dazzle


Paris, France
Posts 456
Joined on 04-23-2006

Post #: 105
Post ID: 7904
Reply to: 7901
Orientation of fibers
Klaus wrote :

"...maybe i'm wrong, but as far as i see it, the whole thing has to be stiff on the outside. will make the horn in a way to survive a "explosion" on the throat, the pressure will try to expand the horn to the outside, so it should make sense to use unidirectional inlays on the outside. inlays are much cheaper than fabric and stronger in one direction..."

Yes. It ain't exactly the same, but imagine you had a bunch of rope, and wanted to reinforce a log, making it more resistant to the forces of a wedge being driven up it's central axis. Think how you might reinforce a can of beer (to resist internal pressure) using only a spool of string. Look at rocket motors (big ones)... They are filament-wound, wrapped in layers alternating by what looks to be around a 60° included angle.

You are correct to look at the problem from the point of view of beam strength (your example of standing on a board). The wall of the horn can be compared to a beam if you imagine holding a composite sandwich section of the horn (a test horn that you cut up). Now imagine how you want to make that "beam" more resistant to bending. The effective means of doing this is via an increase in the area closest to what's called the neutral axis of the beam, or the center running along the beam's length. The closer the material is to this location, the more it servers mainly as a spacer, which must resist radial loading (think of the beam bent into a curve... forces of compression and tension would radiate perpendicular to the beam's major axis)... The job of material closest to the neutral axis is to insure that the out side surfaces of the composite are held at a constant distance relative to each other. These outside surfaces however should be resistant to axial loading (compression and tension along the length of the beam).

If you orient the fibers only inline with the firing axis of the horn, you will in effect be adopting a constructing that would make the whole of the horn resistant to bending in the same way a tree resists bending. Your horn is not going to be subjected to wind... Something for which trees were designed to resist... The load your horn is likely to receive is more akin to a log receiving a wedge inline with its major axis. The result is of course an easy split.

So... If using only one layer of unidirectional, orient the fibers such that they wrap around the horn at 90° to its firing axis. Ideally (if you're rich), unidirectional laminations could be alternated (2 at 90° to each other, or 3 at 45° to each other)... In this case you might just as well get the woven stuff.


jd*


How to short-circuit evolution: Enshrine mediocrity.
07-28-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
chaos
Vienna
Posts 23
Joined on 06-27-2008

Post #: 106
Post ID: 7922
Reply to: 7904
Orientation...
hi jezzie!
i was planning to to make most of the fibers 90° to the axis of the horn, have some time to decide(but not too much, the 515´s arrived at vienna-airport:-)
what to you think of using biaxial inlays(fabric visible, then -45°/+45° and then 0°/90°) the inlays are not that expensive (10-14€/sqm)and i was told, they are stronger than fabric because the fibers are "flat".

regards, klaus
07-28-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
jessie.dazzle


Paris, France
Posts 456
Joined on 04-23-2006

Post #: 107
Post ID: 7923
Reply to: 7922
On second thought...
Klaus,

I should start by saying that I'm not a scientist and not an engineer. I arrived at the following conclusions as a result of a little research and some thinking about the problem. It is possible that I am incorrect.

I don't know how you "see" a driver's membrane, but a lot of people see it as a sort of piston. I feel this view is incorrect and that the membrane, even in the case of a sub-woofer, does not pump and displace air like a piston, it excites air. There is a big difference.

I explained something about this view in a previous post (a long time ago), and after answering your post, started thinking more from this perspective.

So I will now add this to my last post.

Acoustic pressure : Translated from French Wikipedia (I like the directness of the French definition) :
"...In air, sound waves are transmitted in the form of a longitudinal oscillation about a normal value, which entrains the compression and expansion of the "particles" making up that medium (air). The value of this oscillation is called acoustic pressure..."

Our concerns for a structure capable of resisting pressure need not go beyond this definition.

What am I saying... I think it is incorrect to place the focus on a construction that would best resist the expansive forces radiating form within the horn; it seems more appropriate to develop a construction that moves the natural resonant frequency of the horn's structure as far as possible away from (above or below) those frequencies that the horn will be asked to reproduce as sound (2nd harmonics included).

So we are not so much trying to insure against the horn bursting into pieces, as we are insuring against it's wall bursting into song. High material density and mass are desirable because they make for a relation with the air (having relatively low density, and low mass), such that when excited by the membrane of the driver, very little of this energy is transmitted to the horn's wall. The horn's wall is thus less likely to resonate and less likely to interfere by contributing as a second source of "excitement" to the air. The resulting sound will therefore be less "polluted".

Acoustic impedance : Translated from Wikipedia (again, minimalist and to the point) :
"...Acoustic impedance = The capacity of a material/structure to resist being set in motion when subjected to sound waves..."

Making a laminate by alternating between two materials, one having high acoustic impedance, the other having low, I suspect might give best results as a barrier, stopping the passage of energy from the inner to the outer wall of the horn, but it seems to me that the primary objective remains minimizing resonance of the inner wall. This can be done either by means of damping the inner wall, absorbing and converting the energy to heat, or by reflecting and projecting more of the energy forward.

I am in fact now leaning more toward using foam only as a means of adding stiffening ribs (having generous section depth) to a much more dense lamination than would be the case if going with sandwich construction. The result would be heavier horns, but as long as the parts can be moved without going to extremes (cranes), heavy is good.

Kaus wrote:
"...i was planning to make most of the fibers 90° to the axis of the horn...what do you think of using biaxial inlays(fabric visible, then -45°/+45° and then 0°/90°)..."

I don't know what you mean by the term "inlays", but in my view there is no need to go crazy with fiber orientation. I would consider it largely sufficient to use a biaxial 90° weave (carbon or glass), alternating each layer at 45° to the previous.

I hope this does not confuse you or slow your progress.

jd*


How to short-circuit evolution: Enshrine mediocrity.
07-28-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,672
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 108
Post ID: 7925
Reply to: 7923
Talking Points
Jessie, I should say that the LF horn appears to me - a horn dropout - to be sort of the Philosopher's Stone of the True Horn Believers (THB).  Unimaginable amounts of time and effort have gone into it, apparently with the most likely result being madness.  In any case, I have never heard even a concrete LF horn that did not sound like a cave, a sewer pipe, etc., and no need to get into the plywood, I hope.  You have already come up with so many ingenious solutions that it seems likely you will figure out a +/- modular horn that will be +/- "transportable" without succumbing to plywood, fiberglass or other known-to-vocalize materials.

FWIW, and not that feedback at this point is other than a distraction in your Quest, but your last post sounds like good sense to me.

Best regards,
Paul S
07-28-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
chaos
Vienna
Posts 23
Joined on 06-27-2008

Post #: 109
Post ID: 7927
Reply to: 7925
Paul....

whats your favorite sound machine? just to get an idea....

cheers,klaus

07-28-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,672
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 110
Post ID: 7928
Reply to: 7927
If I understand you correctly...

Klaus, this thread is for Jessie's horns.  My own speakers, if that's what you're after, are mentioned in my Lamm ML2 and K&K phonostage threads.

This post will self-destruct in 24 hours.

Best regards,
Paul S

07-28-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
chaos
Vienna
Posts 23
Joined on 06-27-2008

Post #: 111
Post ID: 7929
Reply to: 7928
Will look 4it!
i thought we talked about horns and ways to build it...sorry!

best regards, klaus
07-28-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
chaos
Vienna
Posts 23
Joined on 06-27-2008

Post #: 112
Post ID: 7930
Reply to: 7923
Inlays....
dont know the correct english word for it.fibers in one direction(layers, not curved), just hold together be threaths, not woven. will try it, maybe it works, maybe not.
if the whole thing is rigid it should be ok. i dont go crazy over it, just want to fix 1 variable. if the horns dont sound good i will change it, no problem, just a question of time. my ears will tell me if i was right.
ribs stiffer than sandwich?can you explain?
the weight... i would not care, its no walkman. but i hate fat sidewalls. there must be a way around. i hope so;-)
i dont think a carbo-horn is the ultimate solution, its just a way i want to try....


cheers,klaus
07-29-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
jessie.dazzle


Paris, France
Posts 456
Joined on 04-23-2006

Post #: 113
Post ID: 7933
Reply to: 7925
Cult of the THBs
Paul S wrote:
"...In any case, I have never heard even a concrete LF horn that did not sound like a cave, a sewer pipe, etc..."

I believe you; and this is why I am hoping these LF horns you heard were ineptly implemented.

I would guess that the "cave/sewer-pipe sound" you describe is a form of honk. I think that more than choice of materials, the tendency to ask too much of a single horn (or to use the German term : asktoomuchofasinglehorn), is more likely to be the cause of this problem.

In my case the mid-bass horns will be true 45Hz horns (calculated as if sitting on the floor with no help from side walls or ceiling). They will be filtered to roll off below 90Hz.

I have become a TTHB (Total-True-Horn-Believer)...If things continue going as they are, I will quite my day job, light some candles, dress in sheets, and hold mass where the NTHBs (Non-True-Horn-Believers) can stop by, have some orange peels, and get converted. Going by what the existing horns already do, I think I better start stocking up on candles now.

jd*


How to short-circuit evolution: Enshrine mediocrity.
07-29-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
tuga


Posts 174
Joined on 12-26-2007

Post #: 114
Post ID: 7935
Reply to: 7933
Carbon suppliers
Hello Jessie and Klaus,

Could you provide the contact for the Carbon suppliers you have found?

Thanks,
Tuga


"Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira Pascoaes
07-29-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
jessie.dazzle


Paris, France
Posts 456
Joined on 04-23-2006

Post #: 115
Post ID: 7937
Reply to: 7930
Ribs & sandwiches

Klass wrote :

"...ribs stiffer than sandwich? Can you explain?..."

It's not what I wrote, or meant to express. For the same given thickness, a sandwich would be more stiff than a ribbed and otherwise non-sandwich construction (in fact the "ribs" I imagine would best be described as foam-filled cores, a sort of localized sandwich construction).

Depending on the number of ribs, their placement, the depth of their section, how many layers of laminate on either surface, etc, one could end up with a structure that is super stiff, and way easier to make than a full sandwich type construction of comparable stiffness.

What I like about this approach is the following:

1) It accommodates compound curvature!!!! This is a big deal... For example, the transition from round throat to rectangularish mouth is easily accommodated, as are bolt flanges. And, lest we forget, giving a form compound curvature is in itself one of the very best means to impart structural integrity to that form (This is one reason why chickens do not lay six-sided eggs)

2) It uses techniques I already know (ah, brainless progress!) : I.E. A big plaster core on the floor of my kitchen, onto which can be laid a thick laminanate, followed by deep ribbing.

3) It concentrates most of the material on the inner wall, which means an inner wall having more density, more mass, higher acoustic impedance, which in turn means (provided the whole of the horn doesn't start resonating!), cleaner sound coming out of the horn. If one could create a sandwich having compound curvature and a dense inner wall, it would be superior in terms of overall rigidity and in resistance to resonating as a whole structure. But when I say sandwich, I mean a sandwich having a thickness appropriate for the scale of the horn... So not a 6mm piece of foam between a few layers of fiber and resin... For a 45 Hz exponential horn (nearly 3m in length with driver) I would go with a minimum of like 75mm thick walls.

4) Purely practical... No need to transport, manipulate and store large sheets of plywood and foam (remember, I am doing this in a Paris "apartment").

5) In my case, it would probably end up being faster if adopting this process, and would result in better quality of the finished parts

Here's the stuff I would use to make the ribs (it will conform to a curve if desired... Section depth up to 200mm or 8", more depth via special order)... Scroll down a bit : http://www.compositesolutions.ch/pdf/tds/omegaf.pdf

The drawback is that the materials cost would likely triple. More layers of fiber + More liters of resin... I was shocked at the prices for Epoxy resin over here, but along with superior mechanical properties, this stuff would go unnoticed by my neighbors; it's more or less odorless. (This not being the Wild West, one cannot just kick off a few gallons of polyester resin in one's kitchen).

jd*


How to short-circuit evolution: Enshrine mediocrity.
07-29-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
jessie.dazzle


Paris, France
Posts 456
Joined on 04-23-2006

Post #: 116
Post ID: 7939
Reply to: 7935
Shopping for carbon

Tuga wrote :
"...Could you provide the contact for the Carbon suppliers you have found?..."

Tuga, sure.

Email me; click on my pseudonym (user I.D.); Let me know where you will be wanting to use the materials (what continent?), as shipping adds a lot.

jd*


How to short-circuit evolution: Enshrine mediocrity.
07-29-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,672
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 117
Post ID: 7944
Reply to: 7933
The (W)hole of the Horn
Jessie, I can say without knowing anything about LF horns that those I have heard were indeed ineptly implemented.  And I would die the Death of 1,000 Cuts before I said 1 word about my own pathetic efforts in that direction.

Sorry, I thought you had said you were going for 45 Hz, so I am relieved to hear you are OK with 90 Hz loud (and whatever happens below that...) because, IMO, "LF Horns" are a Truly Weird MYstery From the Other Side (Where There Is No Peace).  I wonder if anyone ever high-passed one of these (just to be safe)?

Yes, the whole horn resonating is certainly one more thing to think about at lower frequencies.  Among other Probable Causes, perhaps some people (no names...) did not seriously attend to their Mass/Frequency/Resonance homework.  Probably safe to double the resultant number, ie., HEAVY, Dude.

Best regards,
Paul S
08-01-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
jessie.dazzle


Paris, France
Posts 456
Joined on 04-23-2006

Post #: 118
Post ID: 7960
Reply to: 7939
CAD images 45Hz inner surfaces
Here are a couple of shots of how the inner surface of the new rectangular mid-bass horn will look (shown with driver; an AK151). This model is based on a calculation for an exponential horn.
These images do not show wall thickness or bolt flanges.



The inner surface of the mouth of the horn will be 2.30m x 1m (just very close to the size of a 4x8 foot sheet of plywood).

The idea being to go for 3-sided coupling with the room. In other words, to stuff the horns up against the side walls and get some additional reinforcement; they are tall enough that the short sides will couple with the ceiling and floor of a normal room.

Depth is just over 3m with driver and rear chamber.



I will try to make this sort of set up work... The short wall of this room is not wide enough to place the 45Hz horns there too. A long wall set up would place the listener in the extreme near field relative to these new horns... Will try it like in the illustration above.. If it doesn't work out, I'll just move !

I was also going to show the planned construction process (have modeled it electronically in order to get my head around it), but this super PC keeps locking up on me, and anyway it's friday night! Will post it later.

Comments welcome.

jd*


How to short-circuit evolution: Enshrine mediocrity.
08-01-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,184
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 119
Post ID: 7961
Reply to: 7960
Jessie went for the obnoxious horn
Jessie,

Unfortunately your images did not make and the most important dimension: the throat size is not visible. Will you go for 12” throat? Sometime I will do pretty much what you do, ironical using the very same drivers. I have a pair of AK154, a pair of AK10/40 and a pair of AK156… BTW, did you consider outsourcing the project to find a local technician, to pay him off and to let his to cut his fingers and to inhale the dust and chemical? Also, a dedicated maker might be better equipped to do the job… There is another benefit: if the horn will not sound good then you can blame that somebody else that they did not follow your instructions – it is what I do…

Rgs, the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
08-03-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
jessie.dazzle


Paris, France
Posts 456
Joined on 04-23-2006

Post #: 120
Post ID: 7976
Reply to: 7961
Process-related ramblings & remagnetizing
Oops,

I'll send the images again once back at work on Monday.

The thraot size will be 7 inches.

Yes I have thought about paying someone else to do the work, but that sort of skilled labor is super expensive around here.

And... Yesterday I had a sort of "big day" with regard to defining the process. I'm still working it out, but it may not involve breathing chemicals, and could be quite simple.

On another subject : I'm considering having all drivers remagnetized via a local guy who used to deal with Vitavox (and other) drivers. He stopped offering the service a long time ago, but still has the equipment, which is large enough to take the AK151s complete with their baskets. The process necessitates removal of the diaphragm/coil assemblies of all drivers (no problem; centering the coil in the AK151s is simple, and I've done the others often enough)

I asked him how he knew when to stop the process... He said that he stops when the magnet is fully saturated, which is what I would have guessed. Still, it makes me nervous; I will let him start off with a back-up set of drivers.

Regarding Vitavox bass drivers:

The only difference I can see between the K15/40 and the AK151 lies in the resistance of the coil; the K15/40 being wound for 15 Ohms R, and the AK151 for 7 Ohms R. (In fact, the cone replacement kit one installed would allow him to change between the two drivers).

According to the spec sheet, the K15/40 was intended to be used as a direct radiator. The AK151 was intended to be horn-loaded.

Vitavox's resoning here must have bene that once loaded into a horn, the impedance in the case of the AK151 would come up. (Impedance at 400Hz for the K15/40 is 15 Ohms. Impedance at 400Hz for the AK151 is "determined by the charastics of the associated horn")

jd*




How to short-circuit evolution: Enshrine mediocrity.
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  »  New  Chinese upperbass horn...  Some sensibility about bass reproduction...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     35  376307  08-08-2005
  »  New  The IDEAL horn system..  Serious Coax? Where?...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     27  197378  12-11-2005
  »  New  Exceptional loudspeakers drivers..  Compression tweeters...  Audio Discussions  Forum     34  426280  06-12-2006
  »  New  Evaluation of tractrix curves based on visual surface r..  Re: The Delay of Time Delay...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     17  170817  06-20-2006
  »  New  5 Channel Version of Melquiades..  Very easy....  Melquiades Amplifier  Forum     21  253765  07-23-2006
  »  New  45Hz Bass Horn..  Can We Ever be Saved From Ourselves?...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     23  316758  09-19-2006
  »  New  Practical Guide for Back Chambers Tuning...  Back chamber’s cost-benefit....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     5  76466  10-21-2006
  »  New  The most promising “best” commercial speaker..  Amplifier Speaker Matching...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     231  1832188  12-06-2006
  »  New  Macondo's Axioms: Horn-loaded acoustic systems..  A link to another thread....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     120  686916  07-29-2007
  »  New  Proximity of horn’s crossover and it’s ability to care ..  Does this explain or relate to the "trombone"...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     2  37495  09-16-2007
  »  New  The Macondo’s Upper Bass Channel: what is next?..  Görlich again...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     30  292283  10-28-2007
  »  New  Eventually - a reasonable midbass horn from GOTO..  Clever DIY going on where?...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     97  1203190  11-19-2007
  »  New  About bass horns by Johan Dreyer..  There are lowest bass horns and there are not lowest b...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     5  95267  02-11-2008
  »  New  The absolutely “best” material for horns construction...  Lately......  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     41  310406  02-23-2008
  »  New  Macondo vs. the “industry sponsored speakers”..  Correction : "Man in the street"...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     4  59845  05-11-2008
  »  New  Building a new music room..  Here is my take for a room that I would like to deal wi...  Playback Listening  Forum     20  148268  10-16-2007
  »  New  Midbass Horns and Real Estate...  Just a youtube video......  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     247  2157258  07-26-2009
  »  New  About beauty and ugliness of horn speakers...  And of course there is always something like this…....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     2  35602  09-21-2009
  »  New  My Multi-way Horns..  Faital chamber/ratio...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     8  127979  11-29-2009
  »  New  The 5-ways from Germany...  Another Kid?...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     38  258776  12-06-2009
  »  New  New speaker system..  One more horn speaker system to look at...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     6  92526  03-16-2010
  »  New  Macondo’s Midbass Project – the grown up time...  Vitavox 15/40...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     455  2994912  05-20-2010
  »  New  Adding one more non-spherical to Macondo...  Horn suggestions for 300Hz-1000Hz channel...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     23  250626  12-15-2010
  »  New  Rakeshorns..  Excellent walls....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     33  300771  08-26-2011
  »  New  Looking to brainstorm stand ideas..  Fair enough...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     2  20017  12-06-2011
  »  New  Deep End DIY - Australian take one Macondo...  It is simple, but......  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     87  323663  01-20-2016
  »  New  Designing and building a 5 channel horn loaded (looking..  The "old" servo......  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     73  347543  06-20-2015
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