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  »  New  Some Horns propaganda..  Old paper direct-radiation tweeters...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     4  64872  07-04-2004
  »  New  Speakers: a hi-fi disaster...  Good writing, T......  Audio Discussions  Forum     22  133001  01-16-2005
  »  New  The “Dead Points of Live Sound”..  Confused...  Playback Listening  Forum     28  210958  05-14-2005
  »  New  About Wilson Audio Loudspeakers..  Nagra HD?...  Audio Discussions  Forum     53  250369  10-05-2005
  »  New  The IDEAL horn system..  The future of loudspeakers according to Lynn Olson....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     15  107325  12-11-2005
  »  New  Magico: Robert Harley’s upperbass mouth...  Surprisingly interesting write up by Federated Mike abo...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     35  224135  02-19-2006
  »  New  Adding one more spherical to Macondo...  It is about magnet and SS type....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     92  705770  05-23-2006
  »  New  Dream Hi-Eff Speakers for an “inmate”...  Re: An average audio person has no opportunity......  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     3  40180  07-03-2006
  »  New  Srajan, 6Moons, sex industry and sapphire horns..  Unless the objective is .......  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     4  47811  07-11-2006
  »  New  Tweeter for Vitavox S2. High-sensitively ribbons?..  Correction: Townshend Ribbon and sensitivity....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     64  619289  10-19-2006
  »  New  My subject of envy to audio manufacturers...  It would be fun to have somebody to pay for it…...  Audio Discussions  Forum     2  18680  02-12-2007
  »  New  German Odeon horns...  How would I play with Odeons…the murky water....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     13  107309  04-01-2007
  »  New  An Interview With Dr. Bruce Edgar..  An Interview With Dr. Bruce Edgar...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     0  55193  07-10-2007
  »  New  First Order on Bass channels: Designed for Sound..  Bass from a vented box......  Audio Discussions  Forum     16  93715  07-20-2007
  »  New  Macondo's Axioms: Horn-loaded acoustic systems..  No wonder...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     72  406854  07-29-2007
  »  New  Jessie Dazzle Project..  Will this better to be auditable?...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     172  1140463  08-03-2007
  »  New  A DSET is better then an expensive SET..  DIY Stradivarius...  Audio For Dummies ™  Forum     41  252868  09-21-2007
  »  New  Festival “Son & Image” in Montreal..  Well......  Audio Discussions  Forum     17  87057  03-16-2008
  »  New  Explain TAD ET-703 driver to me..  Horns in practice...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     13  83612  10-16-2008
  »  New  Living Voice Loudspeaker..  A Polish Infomercial from Kevin Scott....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     80  438528  08-09-2009
  »  New  Engaging the David Haigner’s ideas..  The degree of disagreement correction...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     7  60697  08-30-2009
  »  New  The European Triode Festival’s horns..  Assholes, learn from Grande Castine...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     47  382210  12-13-2007
  »  New  Greek Anima Loudspeakers..  I wish the TuneAudio stay with whatever subs they do....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     32  134333  11-03-2009
  »  New  A new kid in the block: Sadurni Acoustics..  Axpona 2015...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     21  82420  08-22-2011
06-09-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
el`Ol
Posts 225
Joined on 10-13-2007

Post #: 161
Post ID: 10734
Reply to: 10731
15"/1"
fiogf49gjkf0d
 coops wrote:

Magico sounded as if the sound was being pushed into the speakers,

Agree. I thougt shall I fall on my knees in presence of the nanotubes? Where is the crossover point to the Vifa ring tweeter? I have already heard crossing it too low is no good idea.
 coops wrote:
the Hiraga room went up in flames!

My strongest contender for the worst sound of show. Did they use the original Altec or the Great Plains this year? With the heavily colored Melody electronics last year it was at least fun (nothing to do with hifi, though). With more neutral electronics this year one could hear what horrible garbage this driver is. HB Martion has problems with the supplier of the driver for the Bullfrog, so no 15"/1" solution for at least a half year and maybe for ever. No compromise. Better follow this example, Mr. Hiraga.

What I would have done if i could was carrying a van-load of amps into the Analysis room and spend a day testing. Nothing I know has the dynamic realism of these magnetostats and I would have tried whether one can reach tonal realism with these speakers, too.



06-09-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Stitch


Behind The Sun
Posts 226
Joined on 01-15-2009

Post #: 162
Post ID: 10735
Reply to: 10733
Opinions....
fiogf49gjkf0d
 coops wrote:
Stitch I spent the week in Munich and was fortunate enough to spend quite a biy of time in rooms that interested me, did your friends compare hi-fi to other hi-fi  or do they compare  hi-fi to real music?
Romy are you familiar withthe 833 tube?

Well, some of them have annual tickets for the Opera in Munich, others have same for Jazz Festivals in Stuttgart and some are at Montreux Jazz Festival.They are ok and my opinion is fine, too. But I avoid conversations with audio morons. It is pretty boring.


Kind Regards
Stitch
06-09-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Markus
Posts 68
Joined on 03-07-2007

Post #: 163
Post ID: 10736
Reply to: 10735
Futility
fiogf49gjkf0d
Anyone who argues about the sound of systems under show conditions should really do something better with their time. You get a chance to look at products, and maybe talk to designers. Judging the sound is futile at best, but more likely misleading.
06-09-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
coops
London, United Kingdom
Posts 115
Joined on 02-16-2007

Post #: 164
Post ID: 10737
Reply to: 10735
But
fiogf49gjkf0d
Quote, ' But I avoid conversations with audio morons. It is pretty boring. '
I thought you said they were your friends!

06-09-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,543
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 165
Post ID: 10739
Reply to: 10732
The comments about Cessaro.
fiogf49gjkf0d

 Stitch wrote:
I don't think they are deaf, but honestly, you are the first who writes that this Cessaro Horn room was one of the best at show.I guess, you are the Deaf one, I know another one in Germany who writes very important messages =) and he is deaf in one ear... Even Woschnik said, it was nothing special.


Stitch,

I would not take too seriously Coop’s comments about Cessaro.  As I understand he is some kind of Cessaro dealers or one of those “near dealers spinning type of people” who patronize Cessaro but not because some kind of actual results or well-developed coordinate system of judgments but rather because his desire to pump up some hi-fi internet chatter. Joe Roberts did it recently around here with his Silbatone speakers… I find it annoying, not because I’m bothered the people who trying make money or by the people who satisfy own philological disorder and the needs to make “friends” on internet.  However, I am bothered by the fact the those people always oversimplify the subject, pumping up the conversion with idiotic excitements, phony enthusiasm and something that I call "generals audio idiocy”. Why they do it I have no idea.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
06-09-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Stitch


Behind The Sun
Posts 226
Joined on 01-15-2009

Post #: 166
Post ID: 10740
Reply to: 4863
Promotion
fiogf49gjkf0d
 coops wrote:
Romy Hi, Ralph Krebs ( Cessaro's designer ) has been staying with me this week, ...Keith. 

well, that's ok then...


Kind Regards
Stitch
06-09-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
coops
London, United Kingdom
Posts 115
Joined on 02-16-2007

Post #: 167
Post ID: 10741
Reply to: 10740
Lilo +
fiogf49gjkf0d
Stitch, he hasn't been staying with me this week, just out of idle curiosity which rooms at Munich did you and  your audio moron friends enjoy?
06-10-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Stitch


Behind The Sun
Posts 226
Joined on 01-15-2009

Post #: 168
Post ID: 10742
Reply to: 10741
Headache
fiogf49gjkf0d
Well, I know, you will never realize, but when I wrote that I avoid discussions with audio morons, it was for you.



Kind Regards
Stitch
09-28-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,543
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 169
Post ID: 11857
Reply to: 3279
“The older versions of their speakers”…
fiogf49gjkf0d

This is kind of shit that I hate.  I went to AA and read a person said:

“Don't miss the CAR room... That would be Classic Audio Reproduction. But that's only if they are showing the same basic design as last year, which uses modified JBL drivers. They are using field coils and beryllium diaphragms on the horns and a JBL cone driver of some kind for the reflex bass with field coil added as well. The older versions of their speakers used awful sounding TAD drivers for both the compression drivers and the reflex bass. Not any more!”

The very same person the very few years parsed the Classic Audio Reproduction and one of the reasons according to him was the used of the “magnificent TAD drivers”.

I do not make any positive or negative comments about the nether the CAR speakers, nor about the TAD drivers, nor about JBLs, not about the berylliumed field-coils.  But I do make negative comments about the easiness with wish audio people dive into idiotic judgments.  Again, the 34083863rd time on this site:

http://www.goodsoundclub.com/Forums/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=432

, if so, then why the same person,  for years worshiping the Classic Audio Reproduction WITH TAD drivers, never pointed out the specific sonic problems that he supposedly recognizes in TAD… before he learned about other drivers? I do hate this level of “audio intelligence”

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
10-23-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
perrew
Posts 30
Joined on 10-06-2009

Post #: 170
Post ID: 12042
Reply to: 11857
Aesthesis
fiogf49gjkf0d

Im not sure it qualifys as new best but, http://www.aesthesis.se/?page_id=365

02-02-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,543
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 171
Post ID: 15532
Reply to: 3257
New Cessaro scaled up.
fiogf49gjkf0d

It looks like Cessaro have introduced a new model - Omega

http://www.cessaro-horn-acoustics.com/index.php?id=59

I do not know a lot about it but from what I can judge from picture it is the same as the Gamma loudspeaker with the following changes:

1)      New LF channels

2)      Addition l HF channels in composite vertical array

3)      Change the frame allowing the channels to sit on the parabolic curve

4)      Introductions an ability for channels to be fine positioned for alignment on the curve

Good changes as far as I concern, now Cessaro feels almost like Macondo, good for them. I do not know if the Cessaro folks read my site and if they come up with those ides them and were inspired by what I do. It does not really important – what is important that Cessaro Omega confirm what I have been pitching for years – there is ONLY one “proper” topology for multi-ways horns.  Macondo, Cessaro Omega define it, all the rest are still learning.

A few things that I consider as Cessaro Omega problems:

1)      Too large throat diameter of upperbass horn

2)      Channels on parabolic curve are angled but I feel that they need to be paralleled.

Sure the LF and UHF channels are unknown topology and the presents of the former Gamma tweeter and new Omega looks a bit dubious.  Of course the same TAD drivers, that is a major turn off. Still, if to retrofit Omega with properly selected vintage driver that I feel it might be a very offensive loudspeaker design.

I hope that Cessaro will sell Omega without the bass section. If Gamma cost 150K Euros then most likely Omega would be near 200K Euros. People most likely will pay for it a half price bypassing dealers, still it is lot of money to pay for acoustic system. I am sure that people who would lay down $150K for speakers would have other, better options to do bass charnels then what Omega offers out of box.

Rgs. Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
05-23-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,543
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 172
Post ID: 16306
Reply to: 3257
Cessaro Gamma modification.
fiogf49gjkf0d
There was some kind of hi-fi show in Gernany and it looks like Cessaro showed off a new version of Gamma.

They look like change the frame. I really do not like what they look now. They look heavier with new frame and much less elegant. They looks like Arnold Schwarzenegger is dancing ballet – not the picture that I would like to see.

Cessaro_Gamma_newFrame.jpg

The move from shitty midbass horns that they used in past and called that shit bass modules to the direct radiators driver is a good move in my view. They a bit stolen my idea of tapped horn but in my view my tapped horn was way more attractive.  The location of the bass tower is wonderful. Sure, I am not pleased to see ports but they need to have ears to understand it.

This configuration and this implantation is fine for DIY perhaps but it a bit puzzles me for an acoustic system that cost $200K.

Rgs, Romy teh Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
04-09-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,543
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 173
Post ID: 18050
Reply to: 15532
New Cessaro’s Beethoven
fiogf49gjkf0d

After introduction of Omega last year Cessaro looks like come up with a new model Beethoven that they promise demo at the Munich show in May of this year.

Cessaro_Beethoven.jpg

Leaving aside the idiotic tendency to call audio products after the name of composers I would like to say that I find the new Cessaro (sorry, I do not want to say “new Beethoven”) to be remarkable. Sure, it still has the typical Cessaro underdeveloped upperbass horn – a major liability of all Cessaro line. However, take a look at the brilliance of compactness and functional elegance of the design! The midbass horn is exactly where it has to be and for the people who use long-wall positioning the new Cessaro configuration I find to be very lucrative and very slick.

Sure, we all know that it is not “true” midbass horn, very much the same as it is not “true” upperbass horn. Still, I do like the inventiveness and novelty of the given configuration.

Rgs,
Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
05-15-2013 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Purite Audio
Posts 20
Joined on 05-07-2012

Post #: 174
Post ID: 19358
Reply to: 18050
New Cessaro Liszt
fiogf49gjkf0d
Cessaro showed their new Liszt at this years Munich

Keith..
05-15-2013 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,543
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 175
Post ID: 19359
Reply to: 19358
I like it.
fiogf49gjkf0d
Hm, I like the Cessaro thinking a few years back and I love it now. A very good move with this “Liszt” loudspeakers, even I am against the idiotic tendency to grand to the audio element the composers names.  Take a look what Cessaro did.

A tweeter, probably TAD 10K range in some kind of fast opening horn. A Midrange driver, probably at 350Hz TAD with La-Horn. Instead of upperbass channel then went for some kind of 11“ direct radiator, probably in sealed enclosure. The Midbass and lower bass is handled by active twin of 12” drivers. It is unknown if it is ported bass, some kind of horn-loaded bass or Cessaro slightly tweaked the enclosure and bass drivers operation toward to the tapped horn situation.  The holes are too large to be tapped horns or bass reflexes and too small to be horns.  If they are horns then I see no more than 80-90Hz from top and bottom horn. I do not see on the picture clearly if the surface above is exit similar to the bottom. If it is just bottom horn then the have 140 Hz of horn lading and the rest is just the sewer pipe sound. Perhaps they play somehow with resonances and made second mouth opening in the back as the volume of the box is too big to be wasted for pure sewer pipe type of horn. If they have two openings up and down, the bottom act as port and the top with smaller opening as taped horn then it very cool idea. To make that all to sound balance, to hide the problem of the underdeveloped horn, ports, not so perfect drivers and so on… is complicated task and I hope that Cessaro did something in this direction. I like what they are trying to build but I do not know what would make the home signature Cessaro sound. So, it would be very hard to comment about it.

Anyhow, at 100dB sensitively it might be a very silk define and  look forward to hear what they implemented under the hood.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
05-22-2013 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Markus
Posts 68
Joined on 03-07-2007

Post #: 176
Post ID: 19372
Reply to: 19359
Cessaro news
fiogf49gjkf0d
I understand they still use TAD 703 and 4001. The 11" is from Supravox. No idea about the bass drivers.

I liked this Cessaro demo much better than in previous years.
09-04-2015 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
xandcg


Rio de Janeiro, BR.
Posts 162
Joined on 09-07-2014

Post #: 177
Post ID: 21949
Reply to: 19372
Cessaro Beta II
fiogf49gjkf0d
Seems Cessaro have updated the Beta:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cR_1UUYAZSE

Cessaro_Beta2.jpg





Think for yourself, do not be sheep.
09-05-2015 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,543
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 178
Post ID: 21951
Reply to: 21949
Not so impressive.
fiogf49gjkf0d
I did not see, thanks for pointing it out. As I said before Cessaro is probably the most sensible company who makes horn loaded loudspeakers today and I have comment on this Gamma model. This is a smaller version of Cessaro with new bass horn. It is not known how the horn was made and what kind “help” is uses. Acoustically it looks like ~70Hz horn but I am sure then pushed it further. There are zillion ways to do it and it impossible to predict how it sound until the specific are known. My estimation is that  Cessaro is probably balanced everything into one complete package and made the whole presentation for the system reasonable. Adains in context of limited expectation: TAD divers, PP amplification and retarded music. 
 
Conceptually I would like to propose the new architecture as a failure in case the bass horns could not be mirrored. The configuration that they presented at the show have midbass exit in the middle between the horns – that is truly horrible decision and this configuration shall be imagine very restrained. If the whole packers cost $10K then this midbass v is OK but I think the cost of the new Cessaro  set would be way north of 100s dollars and with this level of investment the proposed migbass topology I feel is unacceptable. It is not to mention that there is nothing in the system that does lower bass….
 


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
09-05-2015 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
xandcg


Rio de Janeiro, BR.
Posts 162
Joined on 09-07-2014

Post #: 179
Post ID: 21952
Reply to: 21951
JBL Paragon.
fiogf49gjkf0d
The Absolute Sound cite a street price of 250.000€ and also call JBL Paragon-like the bass horns.

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/munich-high-end-2015-loudspeakers/

I believe that configuration, with the bass horns in the middle, should be more due to space in their usual client houses - and maybe others commercial reasons. Looking on a big picture I found on net those are 2 bass horn arranged together.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-tc1yWdAwMwM/VQkkC-0X6LI/AAAAAAAA29k/lPgaRRMU4Qs/s1600/betaIIF4.jpg

I thing I don't know is if the bass horns could be placed on vertical with the mouth down, this way it could be used on smaller rooms without need of that arrangement.



Think for yourself, do not be sheep.
09-05-2015 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Purite Audio
Posts 20
Joined on 05-07-2012

Post #: 180
Post ID: 21953
Reply to: 21951
New bass horns
fiogf49gjkf0d
The new bass horns are front loaded, and can be positioned either vertically or horizontally, they are actively driven.Keith.
Page 9 of 10 (191 items) Select Pages:  « First ... « 6 7 8 9 10 »
   Target    Threads for related reading   Most recent post in related threads   Forum  Replies   Views   Started 
  »  New  Some Horns propaganda..  Old paper direct-radiation tweeters...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     4  64872  07-04-2004
  »  New  Speakers: a hi-fi disaster...  Good writing, T......  Audio Discussions  Forum     22  133001  01-16-2005
  »  New  The “Dead Points of Live Sound”..  Confused...  Playback Listening  Forum     28  210958  05-14-2005
  »  New  About Wilson Audio Loudspeakers..  Nagra HD?...  Audio Discussions  Forum     53  250369  10-05-2005
  »  New  The IDEAL horn system..  The future of loudspeakers according to Lynn Olson....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     15  107325  12-11-2005
  »  New  Magico: Robert Harley’s upperbass mouth...  Surprisingly interesting write up by Federated Mike abo...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     35  224135  02-19-2006
  »  New  Adding one more spherical to Macondo...  It is about magnet and SS type....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     92  705770  05-23-2006
  »  New  Dream Hi-Eff Speakers for an “inmate”...  Re: An average audio person has no opportunity......  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     3  40180  07-03-2006
  »  New  Srajan, 6Moons, sex industry and sapphire horns..  Unless the objective is .......  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     4  47811  07-11-2006
  »  New  Tweeter for Vitavox S2. High-sensitively ribbons?..  Correction: Townshend Ribbon and sensitivity....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     64  619289  10-19-2006
  »  New  My subject of envy to audio manufacturers...  It would be fun to have somebody to pay for it…...  Audio Discussions  Forum     2  18680  02-12-2007
  »  New  German Odeon horns...  How would I play with Odeons…the murky water....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     13  107309  04-01-2007
  »  New  An Interview With Dr. Bruce Edgar..  An Interview With Dr. Bruce Edgar...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     0  55193  07-10-2007
  »  New  First Order on Bass channels: Designed for Sound..  Bass from a vented box......  Audio Discussions  Forum     16  93715  07-20-2007
  »  New  Macondo's Axioms: Horn-loaded acoustic systems..  No wonder...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     72  406854  07-29-2007
  »  New  Jessie Dazzle Project..  Will this better to be auditable?...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     172  1140463  08-03-2007
  »  New  A DSET is better then an expensive SET..  DIY Stradivarius...  Audio For Dummies ™  Forum     41  252868  09-21-2007
  »  New  Festival “Son & Image” in Montreal..  Well......  Audio Discussions  Forum     17  87057  03-16-2008
  »  New  Explain TAD ET-703 driver to me..  Horns in practice...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     13  83612  10-16-2008
  »  New  Living Voice Loudspeaker..  A Polish Infomercial from Kevin Scott....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     80  438528  08-09-2009
  »  New  Engaging the David Haigner’s ideas..  The degree of disagreement correction...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     7  60697  08-30-2009
  »  New  The European Triode Festival’s horns..  Assholes, learn from Grande Castine...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     47  382210  12-13-2007
  »  New  Greek Anima Loudspeakers..  I wish the TuneAudio stay with whatever subs they do....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     32  134333  11-03-2009
  »  New  A new kid in the block: Sadurni Acoustics..  Axpona 2015...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     21  82420  08-22-2011
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