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07-26-2018 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,157
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 1621
Post ID: 24996
Reply to: 24993
Black Box
Steve, that's the thing that people just don't seem to understand, no matter how many times or how many ways it's called to light.  Not having heard the effects of the PP units in a system I can only deduce from what I've been told here; but I've been told a lot here!  It seems like people just won't let go of the idea of "perfect electricity", when all they really want - I hope - is better sound that is imputed by better sounding Music.  Something I know from "isolation devices", "power treatments", and "regenerators" I have heard is that anything anywhere in the electrical chain might influence the sound, and it is pretty rare to get "something for nothing", meaning a straight-up, unqualified improvement with no down side.  So far, no device meant to improve the incoming electricity has worked improvements that sound better than the best electricity coming straight from the wall without "treatment". If anyone truly knows why this is so and what to do about it, I hope they make and market a 10 cent fix that works across the board!  They'll sell dozens of them!



Best regards,
Paul S
07-26-2018 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,157
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 1622
Post ID: 24998
Reply to: 24996
More On Power Cords
Speaking of Magic Power Cords, here's yet another option for those who believe that if a magic solution to power problems exists, then it will be expensive.  Sure, it is possible to pay considerably more for a power cord with far less to say about itself.  But this is the only one I know of that links itself to science that derives from solving national security problems.

https://www.tweekgeek.com/bybee-se-ac-adapter/


Paul S
07-26-2018 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
rickmcinnis
Posts 27
Joined on 10-18-2010

Post #: 1623
Post ID: 24999
Reply to: 24996
The hardest thing to accept about life on Earth
Is the compromise you describe.  The non-existence of perfection.
You would think after thousands of years of collective human experience this would not be so hard to accept.
It is at times like this I have to repeat one of my favorite bits of advice from Salvador Dali (excuse me if this is not exactly as he put it: "do not fear perfection, you will never achieve it".
Profound resignation.
07-26-2018 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,545
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 1624
Post ID: 25000
Reply to: 24985
My radical view.
 drdna wrote:
I'm not at all suggesting the input coil topology be changed, as this may actually have something to do with the "magic" sound of the PurePower -- something like the special sound of Fender single-coil pickups on a Stratocaster.

Drdna, what you express is exactly how I feel about the PP units. I personally do not feel that PurePower was “designed for sound”. I think they took some kind of genetic on-line regenerator, optimized it “for sound” from point of view of common electric sense and desired to market it as audio-optimized regenerator. Whatever was in the units originally or whatever was done to it accidently make the PurePower to sound very good. I do insist that the finding was accidental and I have very high suspicion that the PurePower people have no idea what it is. I did ask many times Richard the question why he fell his unit sound so good. He was very confident that he knows and gave me different reasons but honestly I do not buy them. The entire concept of converting PS into a switching topology, or so called digital PS is not new. There are zillion companies that experimented with it, some did better, mostly worse. I remember Ed Meitner promoted digital supplies to his earlier DACs but the result was not good. Perhaps a switching PS with following galvanic decoupler (transformer) is the key but who know? You can connect many switching PS but they will not necessary will sound like PP. This is why I am a bit skeptical and with big worry hear news that PP did some improvement. I do afraid that they change something that is not “important” and the sound goes to toilet.  From a different perspective they do maintain the PurePower unit over 15 years from 1.5kW to 3kW+ and the sound become gradually better in my view, so go figure… 
 
What I know is that from where I stay the sound of any playback without PurePower is not as good as it could be. Over the years I maintain a very persistent outlook. I might read some kind of audio review of a super-duper playback installation for near million dollars and I see how a review in his writing suffocates himself in orgasmic convolutions, impressed by the quality of sound. Do you know what I feel when I read it? I feel: “Ok, but you never heard the same playback driven by a properly functioning PurePower.” This is so radical to me.
 


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
07-26-2018 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
PurePower
Ayr, ON
Posts 43
Joined on 05-26-2009

Post #: 1625
Post ID: 25001
Reply to: 24983
Solar inverter issues

Romy,

If you didn't have children I'd suggest a new forum topic devoted to solar power quality and Audio.

There are lots of technical papers on solar inverter output quality, especially related to harmonic distortion levels (additive in the case of individual panel microinverters) excessive EMI and square wave forms affecting voltage, and how these problems can limit the amount of solar that can be acceptable in a single distribution system. There are, of course, as many inverter quality levels as there are solar providers. In such a competitive market cost is primary - thus quality is secondary. Solar buyers are not usually aware that such a thing as power quality exists - so they don't take the care you did in looking at inverter specs.

A lot of this is poor filter design. Inverters have more than one frequency to deal with (PWM carrier wave frequency, IGBT switching frequency) - along with EMI. They need carefully designed LC filtering and snubbers to deliver reasonable levels of noise and THD.

I read one ad from one of the better solar inverter suppliers touting their THD levels as "comparable" with some UPS systems - not a promising claim.

We recently installed 3 PurePower 3000's in a solar powered home with in-panel 240 volt micro-inverters with good results and no problems. Our recent experience with our unhappy audiophile is no doubt a resonance problem between a high THD solar installation and our input EMI filter coil - not a component we ever hear from in the normal world. In fact in 14 years of PurePower installations we have never had a case of input filter noise. All past instances of reported coil noise involved output filters and were load dependent.

It is pretty clear that many, if not most, solar installations result in poor power quality that would detract from audio system performance. In my humble opinion there is a simple remedy. A PurePower regenerator will cure the low voltage, high THD and noise while delivering more instantaneous current and better dynamics from the audio system and thanks to recent experience, we can avoid any resonance problems.>>


07-26-2018 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
PurePower
Ayr, ON
Posts 43
Joined on 05-26-2009

Post #: 1626
Post ID: 25002
Reply to: 25000
Last will and testament
Romy, I prefer you think us idiots than reveal the secret sauce to a man that wants to publish it to the world. 
But I have decided not to take it with me and a detailed technical explanation is safe with my executor and I bequeath it to you.
07-27-2018 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
drdna
San Francisco, California
Posts 498
Joined on 10-29-2005

Post #: 1627
Post ID: 25004
Reply to: 25000
PurePower -never change!
 Romy the Cat wrote:
This is why I am a bit skeptical and with big worry hear news that PP did some improvement. 


Since (at least comparing PP2000 and PP3000+) PurePower is still effective, the one thing we can say is that PurePower has NOT changed the part of the circuit topology - so far - that gives their units the ability to access Good Sound. 
07-27-2018 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
drdna
San Francisco, California
Posts 498
Joined on 10-29-2005

Post #: 1628
Post ID: 25005
Reply to: 24998
Bybee: do you like it?
Paul,

As always, it is a big question if there is benefit in the home audio application. If you or anyone has used the Bybee devices, I'd be interested in hearing your results.

Adrian
07-27-2018 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
drdna
San Francisco, California
Posts 498
Joined on 10-29-2005

Post #: 1629
Post ID: 25006
Reply to: 24996
Approaching the best "untreated" electricity
 Paul S wrote:
I hope they make a 10 cent fix that works across the board!  They'll sell dozens of them!

xD Yes Paul, that will make a very successful company!

With electricity, it's like the water, in my view. Untreated electricity is like a vast ocean. When I was on the Greek island Naxos many years ago, the ocean was so clear and calm on a windless day, I could stand waist deep, and if I waited a few moments, I could clearly watch as small fish began to swim around my ankles. But on some days, there are tons of tourists splashing around and the water is murky and turbulent with no hope of such clarity.

Our treatments try to recreate the still, clear ocean, but always are limited by scale. It's not the same with a tiny children's wading pool.

Adrian
07-27-2018 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
drdna
San Francisco, California
Posts 498
Joined on 10-29-2005

Post #: 1630
Post ID: 25007
Reply to: 24984
Another approach to PurePower problems
 OracleAV wrote:
I really didn't get a chance to really audition the unit for its effect on sound quality.


As we already know well that PurePower affects the electricity even when not directly plugged into the audio system, it is reasonable to simply try plugging in the PurePower unit in another room where the buzzing cannot be heard, and see the effect on the audio quality.

For example, perhaps using PurePower with the solar array system may improve the overall quality of the electricity the stereo is fed, and it will still improve things!
07-27-2018 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Amir
Iran Tehran
Posts 161
Joined on 02-11-2009

Post #: 1631
Post ID: 25008
Reply to: 25002
Please do not stop old purepower models production
 PurePower wrote:
Romy, I prefer you think us idiots than reveal the secret sauce to a man that wants to publish it to the world. 
But I have decided not to take it with me and a detailed technical explanation is safe with my executor and I bequeath it to you.

Richard , i think romy think right about even a minor changes change the sound to toilet level , my trial and error proved me about that even minor changes could kill the sound , please do not discontinue old purepower production.
All of my friends also prefer old models because they are good looking designs.
07-27-2018 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Amir
Iran Tehran
Posts 161
Joined on 02-11-2009

Post #: 1632
Post ID: 25009
Reply to: 25004
Have you heard new models?
 drdna wrote:
 Romy the Cat wrote:
This is why I am a bit skeptical and with big worry hear news that PP did some improvement. 


Since (at least comparing PP2000 and PP3000+) PurePower is still effective, the one thing we can say is that PurePower has NOT changed the part of the circuit topology - so far - that gives their units the ability to access Good Sound. 

Have you heard new pp models? I mean new gold series.
07-27-2018 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
PurePower
Ayr, ON
Posts 43
Joined on 05-26-2009

Post #: 1633
Post ID: 25010
Reply to: 25008
Updated casework and options
You can rest assured we did not make electronic design changes.  We added new casework and a set of feature options from customer wish lists. 
One of the more significant is the availability of LiFePo4  batteries. They do provide higher discharge rates, which improves, not detracts from performance.They also last pretty much the life of the product and allow those customers who strongly prefer to listen "off grid" as often as they wish.  
07-27-2018 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
PurePower
Ayr, ON
Posts 43
Joined on 05-26-2009

Post #: 1634
Post ID: 25011
Reply to: 24977
Does input ac affect output of PurePower regen?
We still maintain that the output is totally isolated from the input  AC - which after all is the reason for a battery pack - to make sure the DC bus is always stable.  We have done tests again and again in which we switch from battery to utility and back while challenging listeners to identify when the switch occurs.
They don't succeed. (Of course Romy may be an exception - we haven't tried it with him.)
There is another exception. If we pull the plug literally - instead of switching the AC line breaker on and off - the difference is sometimes noticeable.  The explanation is straightforward. When the plug is pulled the ground is interrupted. Grounding can be a very significant factor is system sound. And we must admit PurePower is not in the ground line conditioning business. We try to make sure our ground schemes don't contribute any ground problems - but our responsibility is the quality of the AC sine wave and the current sine wave on the line and neutral wires. Each audio installation needs equal care in maintaining good grounding practices. We know because we have been unfairly blamed for many ground loop problems - and every time without fail when the ground loops are found and eliminated the noise goes with them.
So sometimes grounding imperfections have more subtle sound consequences - and may explain apparent differences that are attributed to incoming AC affects. It is instructive to draw a circuit diagram of an audio system separated into the audio signal path, the AC power path and the ground wiring. The ground is by far the most complex.
p.s. If you have ground loop,issues we can point you to some excellent papers on ground loops and audio system ground problem diagnostics.
08-28-2018 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
xandcg


Rio de Janeiro, BR.
Posts 162
Joined on 09-07-2014

Post #: 1635
Post ID: 25067
Reply to: 25011
Turbulent.
Romy, IIRC when you posted photos of your current home it has a river or something like that in there. You may be interested on Turbulent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?20=&v=f98unRjtQXI

Cheers!



Think for yourself, do not be sheep.
08-30-2018 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
kodomo
Posts 67
Joined on 06-20-2015

Post #: 1636
Post ID: 25068
Reply to: 25011
There is a big difference for me
Well, with my unit, you are right under one condition. It does not matter if I am on the battery or the ac line as long as the unit is connected, it sounds the same but it does not perform good. However if I am on the battery and I disconnect the regen from the ac, either by physically taking the plug off the wall, or switching the interrupter switch off, then there is a great lowering off the noise floor. The unit performs great from just the battery disconnected from the wall. I emailed you about this but we could not find a solution. You thought, it was a fault off either ac or my system components. I checked and rechecked everything about my other gear, they have been checked by technicians too. For ac, I have direct dedicated line from the pole as well. Everything works silently without purepower connected. The ground has been checked by technicians and there was no fault... 

In the end, for the last two months I took the unit out of my system and now it is a lot more silent. I can not have same sound everyday which is bad but the noise is really lower and this has become my preference. I wish the unit performed as if it disconnected from the mains all the time. I even thought about adding lots of batteries and listen through battery only. I can add 8 more batteries on top of 4 in my battery pack (each battery pack has 4 batteries) and my charger in the regen can still take care of it. It would mean about an hour of listening to music which is not so long as I listen to at least 2 hours and generally longer... 

ps. I checked stromtank but it is too costly! and I do not have the chance to audition one at home...
08-30-2018 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
steverino
Posts 302
Joined on 05-23-2009

Post #: 1637
Post ID: 25069
Reply to: 25068
Isolation not really
 kodomo wrote:
Well, with my unit, you are right under one condition. It does not matter if I am on the battery or the ac line as long as the unit is connected, it sounds the same but it does not perform good. However if I am on the battery and I disconnect the regen from the ac, either by physically taking the plug off the wall, or switching the interrupter switch off, then there is a great lowering off the noise floor. The unit performs great from just the battery disconnected from the wall.

This has been an on-going controversy. I too hear differences at different times of day and sometimes randomly. In my case the differences are reduced from just using wall AC. But the PP was only somewhat better for me than using PS Audio Ultimate Outlets (baluns) on each component. The isolation does not seem complete but the extent of the non isolation may be due to QC issues with the unit or the wall AC at the site or interactions with other components etc. You do seem to be suffering from a more extreme condition of isolation breach than I am. But I am hearing it as well so it is a question of degree. All you can do is try different outlets  or try it in different rooms if you can. Also you might check your residence wiring. Best of luck.
08-30-2018 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
kodomo
Posts 67
Joined on 06-20-2015

Post #: 1638
Post ID: 25070
Reply to: 25069
Dedicated line
I have direct dedicated line from the pole (electrical company) just for my sound system. This comes to a silent wire sound fuse fusebox (https://www.silent-wire.de/en/installationen/sound-fuse.html) and then directly to furutech rhodium plated non magnetic wall socket (http://www.furutech.com/2013/02/02/1866/). There is nothing else on this line. Technicians checked the grounding from the outlets too. 
Everything is silent when connected directly to the wall. 
08-30-2018 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
steverino
Posts 302
Joined on 05-23-2009

Post #: 1639
Post ID: 25071
Reply to: 25070
Nice setup
So there doesn't seem to be much else left than the PP unit itself producing the noise or more unlikely some weird interaction between components.
08-30-2018 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,545
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 1640
Post ID: 25072
Reply to: 25070
It very much might be on your side.
 kodomo wrote:
In the end, for the last two months I took the unit out of my system and now it is a lot more silent. I can not have same sound everyday which is bad but the noise is really lower and this has become my preference. I wish the unit performed as if it disconnected from the mains all the time.

It is interesting as it is not my observation. In practical sense I do not see any big difference between PP connected or disconnected from mains. There are “some” but it is certainly not at the “noise” level. Are you talking about any auditable noise or rather about the foggy lost of expressivity at lower levels that we frequently call in audio “noise”? Do you acknowledge this noise when music is not playing? If yeas then you most likely have a faulty PP or something is leaking in your grounds. If the later then I might help you to debug it.
 kodomo wrote:
I even thought about adding lots of batteries and listen through battery only. I can add 8 more batteries on top of 4 in my battery pack (each battery pack has 4 batteries) and my charger in the regen can still take care of it. It would mean about an hour of listening to music which is not so long as I listen to at least 2 hours and generally longer... 
I would not do it. If you are wiling to invest more space and money into more batteries then get rig AC part from your amplification and go fully disconnected DC power.



"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Page 82 of 83 (1,652 items) Select Pages:  « First ... « 79 80 81 82 83 »
   Target    Threads for related reading   Most recent post in related threads   Forum  Replies   Views   Started 
  »  New  What lives in Symmetric Sound?..  The beginning of our journey is ALWAYS symmetrical...  Audio Discussions  Forum     19  112717  05-28-2004
  »  New  Always check power-line polarity...  Polarity checker, for convenience...  Audio For Dummies ™  Forum     7  68249  07-10-2005
  »  New  RAAL “Water Drop” tweeter for Macondo...  Your comment takes me by surprise...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     77  675530  02-16-2007
  »  New  My feelings about new exciting audio products..  Vacuumstate...  Audio Discussions  Forum     25  185183  04-30-2007
  »  New  Musique Concrete horns..  Electricity and different compression drivers’ diaphrag...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     5  74574  06-12-2007
  »  New  Compression drivers and the “clean signal”...  The NEW “Compression drivers and the clean signal”....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     14  110812  07-12-2007
  »  New  Digi Redux; Drive 1 transport and iDAT-44+ DAC..  The Sound Obsessive List of DACs/Chips...  Didital Things  Forum     23  142886  09-28-2007
  »  New  Metal domes..  Try the one Lansche is using...  Audio Discussions  Forum     6  53684  11-08-2007
  »  New  The power AC Outlets?..  Where to Pick Up the Gong?...  Audio Discussions  Forum     2  29862  10-31-2008
  »  New  The Avicenna's failure is the great Avicenna success!..  New life for Avicenna...  Audio Discussions  Forum     8  52313  02-03-2009
  »  New  Internet and electricity..  Suboptimal. . ....  Didital Things  Forum     1  16970  01-07-2010
  »  New  Electricity... power strips and ac improvements..  Electricity... power strips and ac improvements...  Audio Discussions  Forum     0  11275  03-30-2010
  »  New  Another example of energy..  It is great to hear from Clark...  Audio Discussions  Forum     1651  6212021  01-29-2011
  »  New  I good spot-light for a turntable?..  Reply...  Analog Playback Forum     15  101933  10-24-2010
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