| Search | Login/Register
   Home » Audio Discussions » It’s mad, mad, mad... electricity. (* posts, 25 pages)
  Print Thread | 1st Post |  
Page 8 of 95 (1,888 items) Select Pages:  « First ... « 6 7 8 9 10 » ... Last »
   Target    Threads for related reading   Most recent post in related threads   Forum  Replies   Views   Started 
  »  New  What lives in Symmetric Sound?..  The beginning of our journey is ALWAYS symmetrical...  Audio Discussions  Forum     19  156989  05-28-2004
  »  New  Always check power-line polarity...  The Cost of Knowing...  Audio For Dummies ™  Forum     11  95107  07-10-2005
  »  New  RAAL “Water Drop” tweeter for Macondo...  Your comment takes me by surprise...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     77  851675  02-16-2007
  »  New  My feelings about new exciting audio products..  Vacuumstate...  Audio Discussions  Forum     25  242296  04-30-2007
  »  New  Musique Concrete horns..  These are now sold as Kornhent products...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     6  98620  06-12-2007
  »  New  Compression drivers and the “clean signal”...  The NEW “Compression drivers and the clean signal”....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     14  147756  07-12-2007
  »  New  Digi Redux; Drive 1 transport and iDAT-44+ DAC..  Ha! It might have lasted FOREVER!...  Didital Things  Forum     25  201881  09-28-2007
  »  New  Metal domes..  Try the one Lansche is using...  Audio Discussions  Forum     6  72035  11-08-2007
  »  New  The power AC Outlets?..  Where to Pick Up the Gong?...  Audio Discussions  Forum     2  39382  10-31-2008
  »  New  The Avicenna's failure is the great Avicenna success!..  New life for Avicenna...  Audio Discussions  Forum     8  75617  02-03-2009
  »  New  Internet and electricity..  Suboptimal. . ....  Didital Things  Forum     1  25813  01-07-2010
  »  New  Electricity... power strips and ac improvements..  Electricity... power strips and ac improvements...  Audio Discussions  Forum     0  14940  03-30-2010
  »  New  Another example of energy..  Piller UPS...  Audio Discussions  Forum     1887  8696098  01-29-2011
  »  New  I good spot-light for a turntable?..  Reply...  Analog Playback Forum     15  139492  10-24-2010
08-05-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
peter foster
Australia
Posts 40
Joined on 02-16-2006

Post #: 141
Post ID: 7988
Reply to: 7987
Taking ultrasound as an example
Dear Romy, taking ultrasound equipment as an example, there would appear to be much in common in the operation of ultrasound equipment as with a sound system.  There is analog signal send/receive, conversion of analog signal received to digital form and then conversion of digital signal to analog for both video display AND audio (i.e., where you can hear the heartbeat of a foetus).  My suspicion is that the devices used to supply power to such equipment must be rigorously constructed and would be optimized to a much higher standard for both audio and video, avoiding sonic problems and reliability problems of the poorly constructed equipment you are currently testing.  Power supply equipment used for electron microscopes, presumably, would be of even a higher quality.  There are second hand supplies of these equipments available on the markets so cost should be less.  Even better, probably, would be the power supply equipment for submarine echo radar system (ping) where operators can distinguish craft and sea animals by sound.  Perhaps one could obtain such a power supply equipment (second hand of course) from a dismantled submarine.  With kind regards, Peter Foster.
08-10-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,992
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 142
Post ID: 8009
Reply to: 7967
PS Audio. Actually….
 Romy the Cat wrote:
Yep, thanks.  I bought it yesterday as well I bought yesterday the new revision of PS Audio Juice Bar II.

 The Juice Bar II looks like a right devise but it need 2-3 of them.

http://www.psaudio.com/products/juicebariimoreinfo.asp

... the PS Audio Juice Bar II tuned out to be VERY nice. I might got a wrong impression from the picture. They have agreeable size and do whatever they need to do. I will take more of them….

The caT


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
08-10-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,992
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 143
Post ID: 8010
Reply to: 2931
The Mozart’s Flute concerto and electricity

Today BSO and André Previn played all Mozart program in Tanglewood with Elizabeth Rowe leading in Flute Concerto No. 1:

http://www.bso.org/images/program_notes/mozart_flute_concerto.pdf

It was quite good program, though I am not a huge fun of Flute concertos at open air but what was practically interesting today was the sound. I was listening/recorded the live broadcast from WGBH and can report the audio sound was horrible.  The broadcast was fine, the reception, the tuners were fine but the electricity was a nightmare….

Well, the flute players during the time of bad electricity die first. A flute is very complex instrument for audio and bad audio projects flute to the background of rest sound, however in reality flute shell glide over music and not to be related to the space of sonic presentation.  A flute is like out of phase monster that shell be everywhere BUT it shell be ALSO well-defined if a mind wants it to be. The crappy electricity messes it all – it converts a tree-dimensional and not restricted by boundary flute to bas-relief of upper range frequencies – very very disgusting…

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
08-13-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,992
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 144
Post ID: 8020
Reply to: 2931
The electricity and 88/24 FM recordings.
Last night local guy stopped by to listen my last year changed in Audio. I proudly played to him a record on my “End of the Life Phonostage”… it sounded like crap. The electricity was not very good and I hardly was toleration when the record was over – it was almost painful. I detected before that my FM recordings are way less susceptive to the electricity nastiness and I flipped to play my 88/24 files. It was not perfect but the music from my DAW was much less hurt by bad electricity. I am wondering why it would be so…

The caT


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
08-25-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,992
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 145
Post ID: 8099
Reply to: 2931
Debugging Romy’s playback: how it works


This weekend a friend of mine visited me to listen my playback and there was a very illustrative occurrence. We listening my audio and everything was like it should be in the program. He was visiting my last time in 2002-2003, before the Macondo was complete and before Melquiades were even conceived, so it was fun for him to listen 8-feet-tall 6-chennnal installation… from 6.8feet (!!!) that acts like a single driver transducer.

What I heard the playback in my view did not do specifically well this day (I always blame electricity) but I played mostly FM recordings and it was near-tolerable. Then there was in interesting development. We were listening a live BSO broadcast from Tanglewood and then, when the concert was over he asked to play the recording of this concert. I did and he commented on the difference between the live transmission and the recorded track. I replied that he shell not hear any differences. He disagreed…

I have to make know that my visitor (his name is David) is not one of the Yahoos who love to hear audio and run mouth brainlessly. He actually hears the things, have well bread discrimination in audio and have quite advanced listening culture. – I do value his opinion and his judgment. We not always agree and do have differences in opinions but what I greatly appreciate about David is that when I ask him about specifics about our disagreement then never fails to go into all necessary depth to make his finding demonstrable and comprehensible. This is a very rare quality among audio people. Most of the audio people, I called them idiots, have no opinion but the juts recite the pre-fabricated for them cookie-cutter micros judgments and when I hear then open this mouth about audio subjects I developed a sudden temptations to vomit. It was like a month or so a big time industry person (he asked to keep his “famous” name private) visited me and informed me that my playback has honk sound. I, knowing that Macondo has ZIRO honkines, insisted him to point me a single and specific sound or tone that in his view would be honk-associated. I proposed him to play as much music as his wish and I challenged him to “show me the honk”. He was not able but still insisted that Macondo sounded like a honky horn system. Since he made those accusations but was not able to point a single tone that would call “honky horn sound” I terminated the listen and sent him out.  I concluded that he was just an idiot who do not deserve my attention. David is very much not like this. He is very much not BS person and besides having much more exposure and taste in audio then most of “big name” players David is always very explicit in his assessments rational.

I have to say that when people visit me I try do not listen my own playback. I know how it sound more they anybody else and I more interesting to head my playback by the ears and awareness of my visitors. Some people are locked-in, not-communicative and do not offers this chance. Some are more extravert-listeners and give a great privilege to expose own listening awareness to others. So, when David claimed that my FM recorded tracks were different from live broadcasts I was alerted that something is going on. I know that difference and it was not the one that David reported and it was alerting. I took note. Then, after some listening, I asked David what kind problems he heard with playback. He said that if he would go nut-picking then he would point out the “narrowish” amplitude of the colors that my system uses to portray sound; it was identically narrow with digital in analog souses. That, as I feel, was a major blow in my view about my playback accomplishments.

I did not become defensive and “insulted” as most of the audio cretins usually do. I did not behave like that fucking idiot from Oswalds Mill who kissed my ass before and who “flipped” after I visited him and informed him that his playback sounded horrifying. The poor thing was so scared and so panicked that he did not even ask me specifics about what and why the things were wrong with his sound. Now this idiot is running among his crones - the idiots similar to him - telling them the tale that Romy the Cat is the Osama Bin laden’s conestoga wagon driver…

Anyhow, I did not become defensive but I very much disagree with David’s assessment that my playback is palette-challenged. I said literally the flowing:

“David, it is not the ego trip by my very objective and very un-implicable view that color palettes that Macondo-Melquiades are cable to produced at very wide margin more advanced then anything I am familiar in audio. So, (considering the dynamic range at 110dB sensitively and harmonic integrity Macondo-Melquiades are able to support) the amplitude of colorful details iwith Macondo-Melquiades is absolutely gargantuan.  I do challenge you to name any other configuration of amplifiers and speakers that in your view has wider spectra of corrects colors then what Macondo does”

David names a few configurations. I know them. I also knew that I specificly was looking in those named configurations for the color-power and I know that Macondo’s results are so advaonced that Mocondo is even very remote from any competition with the named examples. So, I know that something was wrong I should not have disagreement with David in THESE issues. I proposed him to debug my playback to go to the bottom of the “colors deficiency” disagreement.

I made a number of know to me adjustments in Melquiades operation points and in Macondo setting. David did acknowledge them but the changed were not in the direction of the colors amplitude. I proposed to David to hear my play via headphones driven by my preamp. He reported that the problem did not go away. So, the room the amps and the acoustic system were out of accusations. Then, since my digital is two-box (sourse and external D/A) I switched to phonostage. The colors were not there. At that time I have only phonostage and prams in signal path. I know that phonostage was not the problem. The “End of the Life” phonostage has as enormous color power, as much as it is possible to have in sound reproduction. The preamp and electricity were the only thighs that left to blame.  David insisted to hear his own “super” headphone; we went to his car and got them. “It is identical - no colors result” – he commented even though he was very surprised to discover that overall sound I head in his headphone was very identical to the sound the whole Macondo had in my room…

I have means to run my preamp from DC power and it was what I did. David, sitting in headphones reported that there was no diference in colors when I went with buttery supply on my preamp. Well, the only thing left is phonostage and I figured that it is electricity fucked it up.  I went to my closet and among an army of different power devises I pulled the 1936 RCA-made 100W isolation transformer that I sometimes use when power go notoriously south. I plugged the phonostage to the isolation transformer and… David suddenly began to laugh. The sound was instantaneously fixed with the whole spectra of the colors coming back to the duty. We pushed the sound back via Macondo and it was a day and night. David was pleased and told me that he would like to by this RCA transformer but I told him that this fix was working nicely at this specific case ONLY because some king of specific problem took place in power lines and the isolation transformer was an accidently good fix. “Another day, with another defect of electricity,  –  the same transformer” – I told –“  would kill bass and compress sound”. Another day with the damn electricity….

Rgs, Romy the caT


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
08-25-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
serenechaos
lost alamos
Posts 86
Joined on 12-01-2007

Post #: 146
Post ID: 8101
Reply to: 8099
On Methodical De-Bugging
Excellent. 
This is why this has become the only forum I still read. 
This is how everyone learns from how someone actually,methodically, troubleshoots problems. 
When the sound in one's head isn't what is coming out of the speakers. 
Sometimes it takes me days...
Sometimes I don't know what's wrong with sound, and just keep trying... 

Have you ever tried just using two large industrial transformers, wired back-to-back? 
Sometimes that works for me... 
Sometimes the old military surplus isolation transformer/filter/regulator works...
Robert 
08-26-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,992
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 147
Post ID: 8102
Reply to: 8101
The interesting time migh be coming... the 495th time.

Yes, Robert.

I do have/had different isolation transformers, industrial and specialized - they do not work. I mean they do help and in some cases they help a lot but they have very instable and irregular results. Upon the specific problems that the mains have at the given moment the isolation transformers might ether help, or partially help but screw something else (most of the time), or just plain to destroy sound. I relay do not look forward each time I tune the system on to evaluate how effective my isolation transformers at the given time. I expect from electricity not only a better absolute level of sonic quality but also a stable level when the “quality” of electricity does not drop below a certain acceptable level.

At this point I think I do have a very good sense of actions what I might do with electricity. Fist thing is that I decided to go for the larger 2kW PurePower unit. I know, I know, after 6 1kW unit not working properly it sound irrational but I do like some aspects of the PurePower and the PurePower’s people claim that their 2kW is more stable. The second this is my own regenerator might be hatched in a month or so. It will be VERY interesting devise – like nothing available in existence yet. Still I have no idea how my “brilliant solution” will sound – it absolutely not tested sonically.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
08-26-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
clarkjohnsen
Boston, MA, US
Posts 298
Joined on 06-02-2004

Post #: 148
Post ID: 8103
Reply to: 8102
That darn AC Supply
Since all audio folks know that the wall gives us highly variable power (voltage being just about the least important aspect), it occurs to me that a way to measure it that includes all the various parameters would be highly desirable. It further occurs to me that possibly someone in industry or research already has developed such a device, without suspecting its audio application.

So I'm looking for suggestions on where one might look.

clark
08-26-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,992
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 149
Post ID: 8104
Reply to: 8103
The dead end of electricity.

 clarkjohnsen wrote:
Since all audio folks know that the wall gives us highly variable power (voltage being just about the least important aspect), it occurs to me that a way to measure it that includes all the various parameters would be highly desirable. It further occurs to me that possibly someone in industry or research already has developed such a device, without suspecting its audio application.

So I'm looking for suggestions on where one might look.


Well, Clark, this is the question that I keep asking for years but I am not sure that the answer is out there. It would be similar to have a devise that objectively and accurately indicate a right polarity of Absolute Phase in any room and any playback. Sure it would be nice to have such a devise and even to build an algorithm around it that would automatically set a right Absolute Phase but I would argue that it is possible. The same is with electricity. I might know what would be the required parameters to have electricity to sound properly but in so many instances electricity has own mind and I never was able to detect any pattern with a certain level of predictability.

Unquestionably the distortion of the sinusoidal waveforms is one of the keys. The waveforms distortions are the result of present in sinusoid any other micro-sinusoids. A stable and free from distortion waveform of voltage is the very much essential. Running a distortion analyses on AC fundamental I think that the waveforms that have less than 1% distortion looks like good enough for audio. Then we have a current waveform. It is very useful to view voltage oscillogramm right along with current oscillogramm off a current probe. Interesting that if in voltage oscillogramm must be perfect in vertical and horizontal demission then it looks like current waveform are not so critical in time domain but they are very critical for amplitude in relation to voltage. The current waveform might very corrupted in time domain with no impact to sound but as soon we have clipped  current waveform then sound goes to toilet. Running a wide spectra spectrum analyzer and trying to see noise in lines at hundreds kilohertzs or megahertzs level is also very useful… However there is a catch in there. The presents of high distortions and noise are the assurance of bad sound, nonetheless the absent of distortions and noise are unfortunately not the assurance of good sounding electricity.

I have seen as my system powered from clipped sinusoid sounded very good. I have seen as adding another power treating device changed nothing measurable but improved sound. I have seen as perfect waveforms (from PS Audio regenerator for instance) did not do well sonically. In other words… go figure.

I would be less paying attention to the “industry or research” and those people operate by objective data and they hardly know anything about sound and nature of objective sonic evaluations. The best that they can come up with are their idiotic double-blind test – the crutches for the Morons who have no idea what to listen while they are listening. So I do not see that the “industry” would even address the problem of bad sounding electricity.

There is another two factors why I think the sound of electricity enigmas will never be addressed at institutional level. The first factor is the fact the electricity is different at each zip code and different part of the day or each hour – so we basically shoot at very moving target. The second factor is that there is no real need to “industry” to resolve this problem. The cry of a few hundred of isolated freaks that their power lines do not sound good is really nothing for the industry’s interest. It would be fun if some kind of “Columbia Pictures” or “Warner Music Group” file a Class Action Law Suit against power industry for supplying “bad sound electricity” – but to fantasies about it is similar as to have a fantasies that someday US public offices would have a mandatory IQ test to qualify to do their jobs…

Rgs, Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
08-27-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,465
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 150
Post ID: 8105
Reply to: 8104
Target this
Tonight I listened in my truck to the "local" classical station playing a Mozart piano concerto I did not recognize ibefore I lost it.  As I got closer to home, there was the familiar ghosting and then adjacent station override.  The reason I bring it up is because despite the obvious problems, the Sound was there until the end, and the music delivered, with the proper "ringing" from both the piano and the massed horns.  Basically, the signal-to-noise ratio was simply better than what I usually get from my CD or LP playback, and I wound up with a musical fix almost as good as I get from my house system with LPs on a typical weekend.

I mention it was my truck because this radio and speakers are TERRIBLE, absolutely beneath consideration for a house system.

What I wonder is how does the FM shrug off such very-obvious problems, while the LP(for example) gets so bogged down?

Yes, the electricity is very much a moving target, all right; but what is it about FM that somehow punches through?

Best regards,
Paul S
08-27-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
jessie.dazzle


Paris, France
Posts 456
Joined on 04-23-2006

Post #: 151
Post ID: 8106
Reply to: 8104
Is this common-mode voltage ?
In my case, I have not observed any fluctuations in sound quality other than those resulting from my own state of fatigue (maybe they are doing something right with power generation/distribution over here... I don't see many complaints coming from outside the U.S... Could this be a clue?), but I do have a question :

I think it is the result of what is called "common-mode voltage".

When I disconnect the ground lead from the dedicated lines (ground lead located near the components, not at the circuit breaker end), there is a presence of voltage that leaks out onto the metal boxes housing the outlets, and to the grounding lugs on the chassis of the components. It is of a level such that one cannot maintain bodily contact for more than an instant. With ground lifted, there is a buzz in the sound coming from the horns. Connecting the ground lead results in a small spark, but immediately takes care of the problem (both the buzz as well as the not-so-small shock when touching the metal parts). The path to the components is really direct... There is a very fat 2-conductor cable that goes from where the main line enters the building, straight to the big main switch on the circuit breaker panel with no interruptions... From there I wired things so as to bypass the sort of intermediate circuit breakers (recently made mandatory over here), going instead directly to the dedicated circuit breakers, which in turn feed 5 runs of 2-conductor cable, about 30 ft long, terminating at the outlets near the components... Still no ground. It is at the component end that I finally do ground things to an iron beam in the foundation and wall. I have not bothered pulling out the oscilloscope, because with the ground connected I seem to have very constant sound quality. Still, I don't like knowing that I am having to kill such a strong mystery voltage.

So my question : Is this what is called "common-mode voltage"? Should I be concerned that it is so high in my case?

I had the same issue, but not so strong, in one of my previous apartments here where there were no dedicated lines.

Thanks for any thoughts,

jd*


How to short-circuit evolution: Enshrine mediocrity.
08-27-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,465
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 152
Post ID: 8107
Reply to: 8106
A grounded approach to a common problem.

At the conceptual level there is really only one "ground", where both the "neutral" and the "ground" ultimately wind up.  Variations in the "aptitude" of the "ground plane"/route to the ground cause it to load up with current, which draws/carries/transmits common mode noise.  There is always a certain amount of "talking" between components.  A great example is that any iso-tranny or conditioner that is used will screw up anything on its circuit that is not plugged into it, and many of these devices are yet susceptable to inter-component "cross talk", ie, some (perhaps most) are only good for one component per circuit, and these circuits should probably not share a neutral or ground wire all the way to actual, physical ground.  Beyond that, it's all about proper "stacking".

Romy just made some very specific observations that tie 'scoped forms and values to sound.  I sure wish the stupid "conditioner" manufacturers would do this, including the self-effects of their own components.  Who wants a "perfect waveform" if its net effect on the sound reminds one of molasses or bleach, or if it pollutes everything else?

But no sense worrying about this awful stuff if your power is always good, right?

Are you served AC or DC?

Best regards,
Paul S

08-27-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
jessie.dazzle


Paris, France
Posts 456
Joined on 04-23-2006

Post #: 153
Post ID: 8109
Reply to: 8107
Are we on the same plane?
Paul,

Thanks for the thoughts.

"...Variations in the "aptitude" of the "ground plane"/route to the ground cause it to load up with current, which draws/carries/transmits common mode noise..."

OK, my head is spinning... I must work on more fully understanding this.

"...But no sense worrying about this awful stuff if your power is always good, right?..."

Well, if you define "good" as resulting in non-variable sound quality, then yes you could say that the power I am served is very good. It's just bothers me to know that I could probably drive some sort of not-so-small device with what I am routing to ground.

"...Are you served AC or DC?..."

AC of course; Mr. Tesla won the "War of Currents" over here as well.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_Currents

jd*

PS : If I don't respond, it's because I'm taking the next two days off to finish up the mid-bass horn mold... Will likely start making final parts in about 2 weeks.



How to short-circuit evolution: Enshrine mediocrity.
08-28-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,992
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 154
Post ID: 8115
Reply to: 2931
Deep entrenchment of bad electricity in playback design.

Here is what I have been thinking for a whale: how bad electricity impacts our long term judgment about the design decisions. Pretend we have a DSET amplifier and a speaker channel and we have a task to load the DSET’s plate properly. The proper loading of DSET with the given speaker is a satiation when the DSET/speaker combo outputs acoustic-like harmonic structure under wider circumstances. I intentionally simplify the things, bare with me….

Now we have a SET, driven explicitly from bad electricity source. In case of bad electricity the sound got compressed and the flatten MF presses the upperbass to become hard for “swallowing” as it rise acoustic pressure before it rises tonal pressure. To “fix” it or to band-air it people tend to idle the SET’s plate slightly more than they would do with good electricity as the increase transients make people to feel (mistakably) that they got some dynamics, brilliance, vividness back.  The SET loading is done and the sound let pretend is OK. Then we clean up electricity with some kind of devise, let say regenerator.  The dominance of pressure over tone is gone and the need to under-load the SET’s plate is not there anymore. However, the amp, driven from good electricity, is still loaded as it would be for bad electricity – with excessive amount transients and inadequate harmonics. This make us to feel that the power curing devise (let say a regenerator) make sound “sharp” and screw up harmonics but in reality it also might be just a signature of overly ideal plate.

The people who understand what I say would know that I slightly twisted some things but I did it for the sake of illustration of the concept. I do not feel that what I describe before is the ONLY explanation and some power curing devises do screw up harmonics but the above mentioned effect ALSO takes place and shell be considered. I do not know what the percentage of mistaken assessment is made die to the bad electricity have imbedded itself into the common audio judgment, it might be 10% or it might be 80%. But I do feel it is there…

Rgs, Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
08-28-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,465
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 155
Post ID: 8116
Reply to: 8115
Best Case: something else to integrate
I have offered myself up as a bad example time and again to illustrate the sorts of errors I make in the way of diagnostics and "remediation" of bad sound caused by bad electricity, including plates loads, just as you mention and also much more extreme and absurd "measures" I have taken.

It certainly seems to be the case that no "cure" for bad electricity comes without its price, and it also appears that any one approach to any one problem may severally eff-up other aspects of sound exactly because it also messes up the electricity, itself, in another way.

The big revelation is that, indeed, the "cures" are not merely plug-and-play, as the manufacturers and sellers would have you believe.  Best case, one would have to "integrate" the effects of any curative into the system very carefully.  I have never been successful at this, but I'm guessing it would take a LONG time to do it, through many "cycles" of good and bad electricity.  Frankly, with present "technology", I don't see how it would be done.  MAYBE with a battery bank the size of a 2-car garage (but that alone would not cure the crosstalk, etc, etc...).

Yes, the bad electricity is bad enough by itself, in a generic sense.  But the thing I find most maddening is the inconsistency of the bad electricity and the several and seemingly contradictory manifestations of it.

Best regards,
Paul S
09-08-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Lbjefferies7
Southern California
Posts 49
Joined on 01-11-2008

Post #: 156
Post ID: 8196
Reply to: 8116
Power Speculations

My curiosity peaked with Jessie Dazzle’s last few posts.  I realized that, in France, he receives 220v, 50 Hz power.  I then recalled Romy’s post at http://www.goodsoundclub.com/Forums/ShowPost.aspx?postID=1177#1177.  I was wondering if, at 240V, some of the fluctuations between good and bad electricity could be alleviated.  Perhaps if a power regenerator were to run off of the full 240v and output 120v, some of the problems could be alleviated.  I’m not sure, but it is something that I would like to explore.

I have no idea where the problems in our power come from.  I remember that, years ago, our lights were flickering a few times per day.  We had the power company come out and, after being really impressed with our antique copper connectors, he said that he would try to clean rather than replace them.  After that, the lights were just fine.  This was at work and before I had my playback system there (yes, I have my system at work.  Damn, I love my job!).  The lights still don’t flicker but a playback system is certainly far more sensitive to bad electricity and in very different ways.  So certainly some of the problems exist in the connectors. 

At least today, I had good enough electricity to thoroughly enjoy Karajan conducting Beethoven’s 6th and Horowitz performance of Scarlatti’s Sonata for keyboard in E major, "Cortège."

Just my two cents, anyway.  Tesla may have won the current wars, but his plan to wirelessly transmit power through the earth may have been better for audio.  Too bad it didn’t sell.

Cordially,
LBJ


I'm not interested in having an orchestra sound like itself. I want it to sound like the composer. Leonard Bernstein
09-08-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
jessie.dazzle


Paris, France
Posts 456
Joined on 04-23-2006

Post #: 157
Post ID: 8203
Reply to: 8196
Symmetrical feed : 2 X 120 V
Lbjefferies7 wrote :

"...My curiosity peaked with Jessie Dazzle’s last few posts.  I realized that, in France, he receives 220v, 50 Hz power... I was wondering if, at 240V, some of the fluctuations between good and bad electricity could be alleviated... Perhaps if a power regenerator were to run off of the full 240v and output 120v... "

As most everyone probably already knows, the 220V @ 50 Hz we receive over here is single phase (meaning, in the same way you have 120V @ 60 Hz in the U.S.).
At one point when living in beautiful Detroit, I did exactly what you are wondering about; I connected one of those really huge P1200 regenerators from PS Audio to a 240V dedicated circuit and (leaving the P1200 set to output 117V @ 60 Hz), got what I thought were very good results.

But,
that was quite a long time ago, and right or wrong, I now have a greater level of trust in my ability to discriminate right from wrong in audio (what I want has not changed, I am just more sure of it). Also, this was back in my pre-horn days, using very nice, but nevertheless, ported-box, not-so-sensitive speakers. It would be interesting to hear that old setup in that same room today.

I still have the P1200 (if it's heavy, you can bet I'll keep it... Is there a name for this condition?); As already discussed somewhere here, I have the idea to conduct the same experiment here in Europe (symmetrical feed : 2 X 120 V via a pair of military, US-to-Euro transformers)... I have not yet done it because, as mentioned, in my current location, sound quality does not seem to fluctuate.

jd*



How to short-circuit evolution: Enshrine mediocrity.
10-15-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,992
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 158
Post ID: 8522
Reply to: 2931
Will the powers problems be cured eventually?
fiogf49gjkf0d

Well, if I stop to post in this there is does not mean that the problem is not there anymore and with a new few weeks I hope to attack the electricity problem again.

Firstly the new version of APS Pure Power regenerator is coming and they are about to send me one. It will be 2000W unit and it will be 7th Pure Power regenerator. They claim that this one is much more stable (means will not blow) and has some other advances. I hope that it will eventually work somehow…

Second is the Arabian Regenerator (read the thread) that Dima and I are working for 6 month. Well, I distorted my participation in this project. I kind of found, organize, spec and run the project but it is about it. The full nobility of authorship for the Arabian Regenerator lei on Dima’s shoulder – he designed it and built it.

Knowing certain things about the Arabian Regenerator I have feeling that it might be something absolutely out of this world – nothing like this I even seen or heard about. Some objectives that we impose to this regenerator were so ambitions that they arouse Dima to come with incredible inventions – like a completely new topology of amplifier that absolutely immured to loading impedance, capacitance or inductance. This Arabian Regenerator is able to drive at unlimited power into 100mF capacitor outputting absolutely the same characteristic and the same stability as it would against a restive load. That would be a perfect topology for electrostats… Anyhow, there are a lot of VERY slick solutions in the Arabian Regenerator. I would not go into all of them now, nor would I divulge the conceptual topology of the Regenerator. I would only say that the-fully functional board is finished and tested now and below is the picture of it at the Dima’s workbench. I hope in a few weeks I will have it and will be able to evaluate the “minor thing” – how all those design ideas in fact sound.

ArabianRegenerator.jpg

Well, the exiting times on the electricity Armageddon are coming.

Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
11-10-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,992
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 159
Post ID: 8804
Reply to: 8099
The electricity problems… The Armageddon?
fiogf49gjkf0d

This weekend I made an interesting experiment.  I had a visitor yesterday. The gay is not what I call overly critical and overly demanding listener but he is not a typical Audio Moron and has from my point of view a proper and sane reaction to the things – a seldom quality among audio hoodlums. He also does hear the things, perhaps not by the external or what I call “tactical” hearing but calturalsy - a good and valuable quality in my view, also very seldom among people who practice audio.

We spent 3 hours together and were mostly concern with some aspects of sound of top his top flying tube tuners vs. the tope flying SS tuners but before to do out audio experiments I spend an hour or so to play his various material for him in order him to get a familiar how the playback sounds generally and get comfortable with its sound.

I played explicitly FM recordings off my DAW. I was not sitting at the “sweat spot” but was somewhere else but I clearly heard that it was “bad electricity day”. The sound was flat and quite compressed. An addition of a few dB of volume added pressurizing, almost painful harsh force on ears.  Bass was also very flat with no texture. He did not complained a lot (well if person for a first time exposed to BSO live FM recording in full bloom then it is difficult to complain regarding how bad sound is) even those I felt that he was concerned about the sound of thin mass-strings (that in my vow was absolutely unlistenable). Since the APS people still blowing me and the Avicenna Regenerator is not here yet everything was plugged in the wall. I know that Melquiades’ HF channels are very little sensitive to eclectic power but Lavry 924 DAC through everything go in case of my DAW use is superbly sensitive to electricity and there is nothing the I have can help it.

So, I decided to make some change. I played a cut off my reel-to-real player. It is battery-power and has no contact to great at all, driving Milqs directly. All problems with electricity gone right the way and upper range was soft and non-abusive as it shell be. Furthermore, what I did not tell to my guy was that I was playing Dolby B recorded tape without Dolby decoding (this recording allowed to do it - Kodaly Op.7). Believe me or not but the system handled it wonderfully with no signs of stress at HF.

Well, I figured out – if digital is dead then I need to put the heavy artillery in the fight I begin to spin records. With my TT setup I have an interesting tool - I run my input-choke powered “End of the Life” Phonostage via an RCA-made 100W isolation transformer from in 1920 or 1930. The transformer is absolutely unique as it completely cures all electricity problems. None of the other isolation transformers (and I have quite a few) help to my phonostage. Also, this RCA transformer doe NOT help to any other devise I tried it with. I have to note also that this RCA transformer in some case does not help to phonostage as well (depends what specifically is wrong with electricity) but it is VERY effective in I would say 95% of all cases). So, the analog sound very nice this time. I was able to play is as loud as I wish (I plays it 6-8 loader then Digital files with no complain from my visitor), the basses were as they shell be (you need to hear what the New Jubilee does with bass!) and the top regions were as soft as transparent as I would expected, with no signs of any kind to force themselves to listener’s perception.

In the end of out meeting I asked my typical question: what among all played material my visitor found was the most memorable from this listening session. The question is not as simple as it might appear and has nothing to do with steadying of glitzy effects. I did not played crappy music and all performances were of very high caliber. Also, my visitor was not a typical audio idiot in his search of a cheap thrill of showy sonic sensations. I knew what I was asking and he understood what I meant. His response was peaty much what I expected – he music played from reel machine and LP cuts were the very first records that he named.

Well, what is next? The APS people promised me that this week then will eventually send me the new revision of their generator. Folks this is going on from the June of last year. My only positive expectation at this point are purely kabalistic – it will be the 7th PurePower APS regenerator and I hope my  Jewish heritage would kick in and bring me luck with this 7th unit. The Avicenna power regenerator I hope will be here before end of the year as well. Let see how that baby will push up against the electrician problems. The last battle between me and audio? Eh!

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
11-10-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,992
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 160
Post ID: 8815
Reply to: 8804
It screwed me again.
fiogf49gjkf0d

 Romy the Cat wrote:
Well, I figured out – if digital is dead then I need to put the heavy artillery in the fight I begin to spin records. With my TT setup I have an interesting tool - I run my input-choke powered “End of the Life” Phonostage via an RCA-made 100W isolation transformer from in 1920 or 1930. The transformer is absolutely unique as it completely cures all electricity problems. None of the other isolation transformers (and I have quite a few) help to my phonostage. Also, this RCA transformer doe NOT help to any other devise I tried it with. I have to note also that this RCA transformer in some case does not help to phonostage as well (depends what specifically is wrong with electricity) but it is VERY effective in I would say 95% of all cases). So, the analog sound very nice this time. I was able to play is as loud as I wish (I plays it 6-8 loader then Digital files with no complain from my visitor), the basses were as they shell be (you need to hear what the New Jubilee does with bass!) and the top regions were as soft as transparent as I would expected, with no signs of any kind to force themselves to listener’s perception.

Just yesterday I reported in the post above how marvelously my RCA transformer cures the sound. Today I have some time and I decided to record for LBJ a cut of Rach II to show off the Jubilee colorfulness.

http://www.GoodSoundClub.com/TreeItem.aspx?PostID=8778

I played the record into Lavry Gold ADC and listened the file. It was not just bad but it was a nightmare. I figured that Lavry went south. Then I played the phonostage to speakers – the same crap - juts a flat wall of gray sound and nothing else.  There was absolutely nothing changed between yesterday and today and my “kinky” transformer did not work anymore. Just for fun I pull the plug from the transformer and plugged it to the wall.  It was a magnificent transformation – with huge and supremely soft bass, very large sound… but believe me or now it was virtually monophonic imaging. I never saw it like this. I shut it down – it was too much for me.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Page 8 of 95 (1,888 items) Select Pages:  « First ... « 6 7 8 9 10 » ... Last »
   Target    Threads for related reading   Most recent post in related threads   Forum  Replies   Views   Started 
  »  New  What lives in Symmetric Sound?..  The beginning of our journey is ALWAYS symmetrical...  Audio Discussions  Forum     19  156989  05-28-2004
  »  New  Always check power-line polarity...  The Cost of Knowing...  Audio For Dummies ™  Forum     11  95107  07-10-2005
  »  New  RAAL “Water Drop” tweeter for Macondo...  Your comment takes me by surprise...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     77  851675  02-16-2007
  »  New  My feelings about new exciting audio products..  Vacuumstate...  Audio Discussions  Forum     25  242296  04-30-2007
  »  New  Musique Concrete horns..  These are now sold as Kornhent products...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     6  98620  06-12-2007
  »  New  Compression drivers and the “clean signal”...  The NEW “Compression drivers and the clean signal”....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     14  147756  07-12-2007
  »  New  Digi Redux; Drive 1 transport and iDAT-44+ DAC..  Ha! It might have lasted FOREVER!...  Didital Things  Forum     25  201881  09-28-2007
  »  New  Metal domes..  Try the one Lansche is using...  Audio Discussions  Forum     6  72035  11-08-2007
  »  New  The power AC Outlets?..  Where to Pick Up the Gong?...  Audio Discussions  Forum     2  39382  10-31-2008
  »  New  The Avicenna's failure is the great Avicenna success!..  New life for Avicenna...  Audio Discussions  Forum     8  75617  02-03-2009
  »  New  Internet and electricity..  Suboptimal. . ....  Didital Things  Forum     1  25813  01-07-2010
  »  New  Electricity... power strips and ac improvements..  Electricity... power strips and ac improvements...  Audio Discussions  Forum     0  14940  03-30-2010
  »  New  Another example of energy..  Piller UPS...  Audio Discussions  Forum     1887  8696098  01-29-2011
  »  New  I good spot-light for a turntable?..  Reply...  Analog Playback Forum     15  139492  10-24-2010
Home Page  |  Last 24Hours  | Search  |  SiteMap  | Questions or Problems | Copyright Note
The content of all messages within the Forums Copyright © by authors of the posts