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  »  New  Macondo Horns: biography...  Macondo with Pussy Eyes....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     2  56501  05-18-2005
  »  New  Exceptional loudspeakers drivers..  Compression tweeters...  Audio Discussions  Forum     34  377292  06-12-2006
  »  New  The Macondo’s Upper Bass Channel: what is next?..  Görlich again...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     30  254736  10-28-2007
04-21-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,958
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 101
Post ID: 16126
Reply to: 16123
Come on!
fiogf49gjkf0d
Rakesh, sorry, I truly do not understand what you are trying to say, not the I have to,… still.  I do not subscribe your intellectualizations about the subject. Take it from a person who use to played chess from 5 years old and was rated at 9. Please, do not take it personally but I have no idea where you are trying to take all of it.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
04-22-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Jorge
Austin TX
Posts 141
Joined on 10-17-2010

Post #: 102
Post ID: 16135
Reply to: 16125
Output Amplitude
fiogf49gjkf0d
That is the thing exactly,  my upperbass solution has the same output amplitude as the compression drivers I am using, IMHO resistrors are the devil in xovers,  they kill all sound.  Now the difference between 109 db and 110 db can be overcome with certain tricks,  like small diameter wire or copper vs silver cabling. etc.  But not Ideal. 

Using the Fane 8M is interesting mainly if I get a better sound,  Gravitas and size!

Most drivers I tried for Upperbass start droping at 650 hz but have a long tail,  the 10" driver goes a little bit higher maybe 1  khz and then drops like a brick,  I think this is good for better integration with the mid range compression driver.  I see a lot fo people trying to get the upperbass horn up to 5-6 khz,  I dont understand why,  I love what compression drivers bring to the table...


 
I am not using the S2 driver, I have been going the long way testing a bunch of different compression drivers.  Right now I am testing the TAD 2001,  I can say leaving it full range going all the way up, it develops a certain tone in highs that I dont think I could live with in the long run, sort of sugary whizzer like sound, but taking away the tweeter does bring a nice soundstage and a more intimate sound,  for women voices, they are hipnotic, with very deep soundstage and a proximity very hard to find.  Now crosing them with a low pass at 10 khz-15 khz they get better with big orchestral music with a more natural tone, but it is not a very resolving driver IMHO.  My Favorite at the moment is the Beyma 755nd,  they have 2.2 tesla on the coil and titanium diaphragm with a plastic suspension.  I have tried and lived for a while with a bunch of different compresison drivers,  some are; Altec 806, Beyma cp385nd,(not reallly worth mentioning); 18sound 2060A which sports an aluminum diaphragm with plastic suspension and 1.9 tesla magnet, it is very good and musical, but not as resoving as it big brother 18sound 1480nd, with a titanium diaphragm and plastic suspension and 2.2 tesla.  this one is very very close to the Beyma 755,  it was hard for me to choose one over the other,  but I think the tone of the beyma is a bit better.  I also tried the Radian 950bp  with aluminum diaphram and plastic suspension,  that one was a bit harder on the ears and needed a biger horn and thin wire,  I guess the 4" diaphragm made a difference.  Next on the list I guess will be GOTO 350, I am also hunting down a pair of S2 drivers...
 


I am also thinking of making a pair of 1.2 meter diameter round tactrix horns trhat should go down to 90 hz,  floor coupled maybe real 80 hz. Cut them at 300 hz and use the 2490 from there uo to 1 khz, But this may take a while...
04-22-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,958
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 103
Post ID: 16136
Reply to: 16135
Here and there....
fiogf49gjkf0d

 Jorge wrote:
I am not using the S2 driver, I have been going the long way testing a bunch of different compression drivers.  Right now I am testing the TAD 2001,  I can say leaving it full range going all the way up, it develops a certain tone in highs that I dont think I could live with in the long run, sort of sugary whizzer like sound, but taking away the tweeter does bring a nice soundstage and a more intimate sound,  for women voices, they are hipnotic, with very deep soundstage and a proximity very hard to find. 

Yes, TADs have this quality. Sugary whizzer is a good description. I call it syntactic tacky sound – very much like Weiss DACs

 Jorge wrote:
Now crosing them with a low pass at 10 khz-15 khz they get better with big orchestral music with a more natural tone, but it is not a very resolving driver IMHO.  My Favorite at the moment is the Beyma 755nd,  they have 2.2 tesla on the coil and titanium diaphragm with a plastic suspension.  I have tried and lived for a while with a bunch of different compresison drivers,  some are; Altec 806, Beyma cp385nd,(not reallly worth mentioning); 18sound 2060A which sports an aluminum diaphragm with plastic suspension and 1.9 tesla magnet, it is very good and musical, but not as resoving as it big brother 18sound 1480nd, with a titanium diaphragm and plastic suspension and 2.2 tesla.  this one is very very close to the Beyma 755,  it was hard for me to choose one over the other,  but I think the tone of the beyma is a bit better.  I also tried the Radian 950bp  with aluminum diaphram and plastic suspension,  that one was a bit harder on the ears and needed a biger horn and thin wire,  I guess the 4" diaphragm made a difference.  Next on the list I guess will be GOTO 350, I am also hunting down a pair of S2 drivers...
 The search for a good MF driver is very interesting subject, well deserving own thread. When you conclude your research then post your findings. 
 Jorge wrote:
I am also thinking of making a pair of 1.2 meter diameter round tactrix horns trhat should go down to 90 hz,  floor coupled maybe real 80 hz. Cut them at 300 hz and use the 2490 from there uo to 1 khz, But this may take a while...

Hm, 1.2 meter diameter would be a bit hard to setup in playback as you need 16” for MF, so how high will be your MF located? Doing it you might effectively make your playback to work only in far field…. In my estimate one meter or 39” is the max diameter of tratrix that is more or less manageable. I think that it is too expensive to get extra 20% horn size for 10Hz. I feel is better to add extension to bass channel then to rive upperbass lower.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
04-23-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,958
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 104
Post ID: 16146
Reply to: 16136
Fane Studio 8M Enterprise.
fiogf49gjkf0d
 Jorge wrote:
Using the Fane 8M is interesting mainly if I get a better sound,  Gravitas and size!

Well, the “promised” the gravitas and size but it need to understood that it will not be coming from fane for from extra length of the horn after you shrink the throat down to 4”. Fine will give some tonal actuation and some useful “boom” if your current driver does not have it. I think if you do not like 8M then you will be able to sell it with time.  The Studio 8M is 8” driver which is in reality 6” cone. There is none a lot of 103dB sensitive 8-inshers out there. So, since Fane will not produce then after oxric’s run they will become “vintage” again. It will be 25 DIY-audio-level users who will be telling about Fane and I anticipate in a year or so 8M will be sold for $1500, which is I guess is a far price of the driver.

In fact if I have an interest in making money on it then I would order a party of 100-200 drivers for myself, re-label then with some kind “New England Accustic” name. Then I would publish an 3-4 pages article in “Speaker Builder”, or “Audio Express”, or something like this with explanation of the idea and the advantages of MF and Upperbass separation with accent on the Upperbass implementation. If to explain to the Morons, to chew and to stick the food into the mouths, which would allow the people do not hear or think then they will snatch the park of 100-200 drivers with the speed of hungry coyotes… The people who trade audio for DIYers shall take notes.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
06-21-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,958
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 105
Post ID: 16506
Reply to: 16146
The Fane paranoia at a new round of craziness.
fiogf49gjkf0d

I am with great pleasure observe the craziness that “rakeshpoorun” created around the buy of a Fane’s new production run of Studio 8M drivers.  Sure, he created commendable activity. I am sure his definition of Audio implies 6 moths of administrative activity to sell Fane drivers around the world. Well, whatever makes him happy! What however made me to laugh is the anal retentiveness with witch those gays approach the new Fame production run….

So, now Fane made for them a single pair to test of the coming production run. Hold on, Fane told that they can make ONLY 50 drivers as a single run. So, how the hell they were able to make a single pair and send it to test? It was very obvious from beginning that assholes from Fane just take advantage of rakeshpoorun’s interest as in past they did any type of custom single drives with no demand for mass production. I am sure that if Fane would insist that they make drivers to rakeshpoorun only if he will wash cars for all fane employees during a year then rakeshpoorun would run to hire the people to do it.

Anyhow, that all was told before but now the ceremony enters a new elevated round of craziness:

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/group-buys/186539-group-buy-fane-8m-studio-50-units-production-run-9.html#post2607889

Now they insist to confirm the new driver specification and T-S parameters to what is expressed in datasheet. That is very funny as I wonder what will they do if any of parameters will be off? No one even say that any specific parameter of Studio 8M is critical for it’s sound and that old drivers comply with the specification. What I discovered the Studio 8M I knew only Fs, side and sensitivity and it was all that I needed. Later on, in 2-3 year I saw the Studio 8M datasheet, confirmed that the T-S parameters are pretty shity for my type of horn and… discarded the datasheet as …. irrelevant. As many times I say that T-S parameters shall not be considered for front-loaded horns the people do not get it and keep BS themselves with popular among the idiotic DIYers horn prediction and modeling.

Honestly if I was in Fane shoe then looking at the questions about microphone positioning and T-S collection techniques I would say: “sorry, we do not do those drivers anymore, the shop is closed”.  I hope Fane has more patience then I do they will go alone with this craziness. “My god, your new driver has resonant frequency ¼ higher!” What is the end of the fucking would!

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
06-21-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
oxric
Posts 194
Joined on 02-12-2010

Post #: 106
Post ID: 16507
Reply to: 16506
ça m'est égal
fiogf49gjkf0d
 Romy the Cat wrote:

I am with great pleasure observe the craziness that “rakeshpoorun” created around the buy of a Fane’s new production run of Studio 8M drivers. 

The Cat


Romy,

In another life, I would have derived some pleasure from this, and would have been amused by your sarcasm and caustic comments. As it is, you have become so completely predictable that it is all rather sad. 

As you quite correctly point out, the admin side of this Fane project was never fun but I never thought it would be. The end result might make it worth it, as these drivers are likely to perform better and last longer than any Fane 8M drivers out there.

You have often questioned the nature of my relationship with Fane. There is none but as this project comes close to a final conclusion, I would say there have been moments when Fane have been less than helpful. They had never mentioned a sample production unit but on the day we decided to place the order, they suddenly bring up this sample unit which they will now manufacture, and which we need to check to our satisfaction before they proceed with the order. I am not at all happy with the delay at it means the speakers will in all likelihood be ready at a time when I wanted to have finished with the whole project.

As for the history of Fane, I found a little summary of the recent history of the company that may be of interest to some:


 http://www.faneinternational.com/downloads/Pro%20Audio%20Asia%20-%20Fane%20Feature.pdf

You seem to have come close to the end of your personal journey in terms of your playback. It was most fascinating and enlightening, and I consider it a real privilege to have been able to see it happen, at it were, in front of my eyes. Mine is just starting and the next couple of years will be, I can see it already, some of the most interesting times I have ever had. As for the inexplicable vitriol and scorn you have to constantly pour on this whole project, as the French say, 'ça m'est égal.'

Best regards
Rakesh




06-21-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,958
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 107
Post ID: 16508
Reply to: 16507
Inexplicable vitriol and scorn vs. mockery and sarcasm
fiogf49gjkf0d
 oxric wrote:
You have often questioned the nature of my relationship with Fane. There is none but as this project comes close to a final conclusion, I would say there have been moments when Fane have been less than helpful. They had never mentioned a sample production unit but on the day we decided to place the order, they suddenly bring up this sample unit which they will now manufacture, and which we need to check to our satisfaction before they proceed with the order. I am not at all happy with the delay at it means the speakers will in all likelihood be ready at a time when I wanted to have finished with the whole project.

 I never questioned the nature of your relationship with Fane, I never cared about it and the comments at DIYAudio that I accuse you to be a secretive Fane rep were foolish.  But I was amused that for the opportunity to have two freaking drivers you have commit yourself in such a project as to sell 50 driver for Fane. It is all know that Fane never had problems to produce single drivers by custom order in past. So, they use you and I am having fun to mock it. Wait a bit and you will see how the payments from some of your co-order will not arrive or some drivers will be lost in mail. That all are normal part of life for reps but not for the people who need two stinking drivers to own horn. I will try to make it more fun for you as when you get your (as you think) ultimate prize: a pair of your own Fane Studio 8M driver I will denounce them and begin to BS that I found some kind of midbass drive in local Radio Shack that is "much better". Yes, I know that I am predictable but so as anyone else….

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
09-28-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,958
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 108
Post ID: 17096
Reply to: 3943
The new Studio 8M users.
fiogf49gjkf0d
It looks like the hornresp-heads over DIYAudio.com got their Fane Studios and it looks like they like it. Some of them not realize that Fane 8M is sort of DSET Trojan Horns as they will not be able to defeat Fane’s VC inductance with single serial coil and it has no cooper cup to deal with it. Let see how many of new Fane user will go multi-amp with it.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
10-12-2021 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Rewind
Posts 20
Joined on 04-15-2013

Post #: 109
Post ID: 26390
Reply to: 16005
18Sound 8M400F looks promising
I was simulating the Fane S 8M in hornresp, your favourite program, and then I tried B&C 8PE21 and it was almost identical. Then I tried to simulate the 18Sound 8M400F and it went lower than both of them. Listening tests on youtube comparing the 8PE21 and the 8M400F suggests a cleaner midrange. I am going to try it in a much larger horn because I think personally 110Hz is a bit useless.
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   Target    Threads for related reading   Most recent post in related threads   Forum  Replies   Views   Started 
  »  New  Macondo Horns: biography...  Macondo with Pussy Eyes....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     2  56501  05-18-2005
  »  New  Exceptional loudspeakers drivers..  Compression tweeters...  Audio Discussions  Forum     34  377292  06-12-2006
  »  New  The Macondo’s Upper Bass Channel: what is next?..  Görlich again...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     30  254736  10-28-2007
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