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  »  New  Lamm LP2 phonostage: review of review...  Another stupid Lamm LP2 review....  Analog Playback Forum     2  43131  03-05-2005
  »  New  VTL TL-7.5 Reference: His name was Marc Mickelson he wa..  VTL TL-7.5 Reference: His name was Marc Mickelson he wa...  Audio Discussions  Forum     0  20975  03-16-2005
  »  New  The Silence of the Lamms!..  Well, Lamms are not exactly fun anymore. ...  Audio Discussions  Forum     7  52017  06-12-2005
  »  New  Romy, how does the original ML2 sound in regards to acc..  Modification of Lamm’s SET...  Audio Discussions  Forum     5  44598  06-20-2005
  »  New  Lamm L1 vs. L2 preamp..  L1/L2 & Police Breathalyzer...  Audio Discussions  Forum     5  50447  06-25-2005
  »  New  Jonathan Valin smokes Lamm LP2..  Jonathan Valin smokes Lamm LP2...  Analog Playback Forum     0  18071  03-27-2006
  »  New  Initial thoughts about new/old Lamm ML2s..  Voltage Divider in ML2 Input Stage...  Audio Discussions  Forum     215  1151922  10-12-2006
  »  New  DHT driver & input..  Effects of radiation...  Melquiades Amplifier  Forum     25  162276  02-01-2007
  »  New  A DSET is better then an expensive SET..  DIY Stradivarius...  Audio For Dummies ™  Forum     41  242825  09-21-2007
  »  New  Lamm ML2.1 "No longer available"?..  My favorite song...  Audio Discussions  Forum     16  89060  04-09-2008
  »  New  The loudspeakers for a powerful SET..  Mission Accomplished?...  Audio Discussions  Forum     48  281399  04-11-2008
  »  New  Dual channel SET..  Space exploration...  Audio Discussions  Forum     8  54577  04-17-2008
  »  New  Incorporating active crossovers into DSET..  Thanks...  Melquiades Amplifier  Forum     2  29412  07-22-2008
  »  New  RMAF 2008 observations, opinions 1) ceramic drivers..  Mystification-masturbation?...  Audio Discussions  Forum     32  186355  10-15-2008
  »  New  Lamm introduced LL1 Signature Preamp…..  An Oscar for the most retarded comment printed in audio...  Audio Discussions  Forum     19  96363  05-16-2009
  »  New  A new CES 2010 loudspeaker?..  Good idea, indeed......  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     15  116096  01-13-2010
  »  New  Lamm ML2.1 "No longer available"?..  My favorite song...  Audio Discussions  Forum     16  89060  04-09-2008
  »  New  Lamm ML2.2 and Mark the BS teller...  Keeping beaching about Spectral…...  Audio Discussions  Forum     7  45336  01-30-2012
09-06-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,511
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 61
Post ID: 8168
Reply to: 8166
Lamm and idiocy? No, it is a different game.

 decoud wrote:
I imagine the resistance to the DSET concept does not come from idiocy - Lamm may well be steeped in vanity and avarice, but he is certainly no idiot - but from resistance to combining amplification and loudspeaker in a single, coherent, monolithic system. Abstracted from the conventions of the audio world, it makes no sense to unify the amplification step when the transduction step is necessarily segregated. I wonder what Lamm said when you spoke to him about the DSET idea (as I imagine you must have done, no)?

Decoud,

I do not think Lamm’s idiocy is even under a question. Lamm, in my view, do exhibit some idiotic behavior in the realm of business conducting – the subject that is totally out of public view, however in Lamm design aspects there is zero idiocy. I do not know, nether care what Lamm think about DSET concept. His thinking and his expression of his thinking is highly conditioned. The last time I dealt with Lamm in 2002 and I remember that the last few months of our relationship was very frustrated by the internally made fence of lie and deception that Lamm was creating around his views. Perhaps it was his reaction to my emerging from my ignorance/moronity. Anyhow, it developed within me lack of respect and in a way revulsion – why do you think I terminated that relationship? So, I would not be the best person to ask “what Lamm thinks”. I have my outlook toward to the Lamm’s view, not to mention that what Lamm thinks is well described by what Lamm does. Still, Vladimir designs for public consumption and we know (as well as he knows) that public consumption is not overly demanding and not overly serious. There is also no infrastructure among the park of ready to use speakers that would be accommodated to use with DSETs. I am sure if to put Lamm in a condition where he would not be restricted by the boundaries or industry conditions then it would be possible to milk much more interesting result from him. How Lamm is different in this aspect from most of other manufacturers?

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
09-06-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
decoud
United Kingdom
Posts 241
Joined on 03-01-2008

Post #: 62
Post ID: 8170
Reply to: 8168
Ampliductor
 Romy the Cat wrote:

...There is also no infrastructure among the park of ready to use speakers that would be accommodated to use with DSETs...
The Cat


Yes, this is what I was trying to get at: what someone talented like Lamm might do if combining the amplifier and the speakers in a single indivisible entity was a viable business model. The DSET approach would seem inevitable then.

Maybe it just needs someone to show that it is a viable proposition, commerially. Hasn't Jessie said he might commercialize his art at some point....
10-06-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,511
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 63
Post ID: 8460
Reply to: 8149
The Lamm ML3 photos & first impressions

Here are a few comments by Mike of Audio Federation about his exposure to new Lamm ML3 amp:

http://audiofederation.com/blog/archives/498

In fact it was more interning then the entire review in Soundstage, at least more informative. A few comments that I would like to make in context of the Mike’s impressions.

I am glad that Mike provided a positive feedback about ML3’s micro-dynamics (whatever it means) as I always feel that the micro-detailness was always a weak point of large transmission high voltage tubes. (Look more for the “Elephant Sound” at http://www.romythecat.com/Forums/ShowPost.aspx?postID=2182). It is possible that Lamm found a way to deal with it …or it might not be so. I have my doubts about the Mike’s comments as he was selling and listing his Ongaku for years and he never was complaining that Ongaku were micro-details challenged (and the always were). Another problem of mine is that Mike used ML3 with EMM Labs front end and with Marten Coltrane Supreme loudspeakers. The EMM Labs has a sound of person chewing aluminum foil, at least it was how it sound 3-4 years back. EMM has that unpleasant character of street prostitute make up, where smell, colors and shape are there but the substance is good only for 10 minutes service. The Marten Coltrane is not far from there – sort of glorified Kharma loudspeaker make for the people who have more money but even less ears. I have to admit that I generally hate any speakers that use stupid ceramic drivers with soft suspensions and Marten Coltrane is kind of the pinnacle of it. So, I wonder if the reported by Mike ML3’s micro-dynamics is in fact not the micro-dynamics but juts the infertile hypo –resolution of Marten’s cone and EMM Labs’s “hi-fi quality”?

The rest Mike’s comments are too dull to comment about them seriously. It would be interesting to hear the Mike’s comment about ML3’s sound after the show. Mike always overly-exuberant about the things he sells and I do not consider his feedback important but he sometimes subconsciousnessly drops between the lines a few pointers that might be worth something.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
10-06-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,138
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 64
Post ID: 8461
Reply to: 8460
Look, they have handles!
Regarding Mike's observations: Indeed, there might be more There there than he intended.

He might have said anything at all, but he seemed to get stuck on the "micro-management" issue.

Sound familiar?

Who would be surprised if the ML3 turned out to be +/- a BIG ML2.1, ie, more of the same?

AFAIK, L has not specifically addressed - let alone made any appologies - for any shortcomings in any of his products, and he appears to have stayed the course in product "development" over the years.

On the one hand, why mess with "critical"/commercial success.  OTOH, it appears to me that he actually does believe that his every expression of his hard-won "core principles" will win out in any product form he chooses.

And if you listen to the man there's no reason to think L listened to the ML3 any more than he has done with his previous designs.

I have been messing around with my ML2s for almost 2 years now.  While I remain basically happy with them, and I am sure I use them quite differently than Mike would, conceptually and contextually, I have to say Mike's words have a oddly familiar ring to me.

Maybe Mike was just particularly sensitive that day, since I don't remember him talking like this about the ML2s or their "successors", the ML2.1s.  So, maybe Lamm has made the ML3s not just bigger but "even better" than the ML2.1s, to the point where the Mikes of the world are finally noticing and talking about "micro-management".

Then again, I did not see if/where Mike mentioned the "adjustable feedback".

Not that this has anything to do with "micro-management" or "dynamics"...

Best regards,
Paul S
10-06-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,511
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 65
Post ID: 8462
Reply to: 8460
The Federated Mike and the demo in McCain/Palin country

In response to http://audiofederation.com/blog/archives/501

 The Federated Mike wrote:
First, the Ongaku, the Audio Note …. U.K.(!) … Ongaku, that we have here is not micro-details challenged [to say the least]. The Kondo Ongaku may indeed be challenged in this way - certainly sounds that way at shows… but then again, they put the darn things on nightstands and other suspiciously inadequate platforms that are probably sucking all the micro-details out of whatever there was there to begin with.

Mike, you got to be kidding, are you? Anyhow, I am sure that when Kondo designed his Ongaku he put in the specification the condition that amp must be used only with the stands that available for sale at Audio Federation store… I heard that he died at CES what he died when somebody accidentally put his amps on flore, is it true?

 The Federated Mike wrote:
If any of you weren’t happy with digital four of five years ago - and gave up on it - give it another try. Digital music reproduction has evolved significantly in the last few years, along with the rest of the digital landscape.

Does it mean that if you look at your posts 4-5 years ago then I will find that you complained that EMM at that time was horrible? What made then to change their way beside the demands of their marketing flaks to introduce each year new model in order to extract new cash from the gullible but deaf Morons who buy this things?

 The Federated Mike wrote:
And, just another pet peeve , the sound of the Martens are in fact almost diametrically opposite to the sound of Kharmas.

In the way how YOU see it, not me.

 The Federated Mike wrote:
And regardless of all this - our reportage was about the sound of the ML3s in comparison to what we have heard here before - namely the ML2.1 and the higher level Audio Note.

I do not know about this. I never heard the ML3 and I have no opinion about it’s sound. I do not know if I ever will hear ML3 at the conditions that I feel worth to be critical. I know defiantly that I would not extend a lot of credit to Martens acoustic system as they are at very opposite direction to what I feel is “better way to go”. The acoustic systems is in a way was always the “Lamm’s curse” – he never was able to demonstrate his electronics with right speakers. His dealers push his electronics not with whatever it necessary to mate sonically but with whatever is profitable for them to sell, the way you do. Lamm never was able to establish good relationship with “interesting” speakers makers and always used the sonic bottom-eaters (10 year of sponsoring Kharma is of the exemplas). Wait for a few month/years and you will see Lamms will be demoed with Magicos or whatever the industry trumpetists will spin then…

 The Federated Mike wrote:
And, as far as “Mike always overly-exuberant about the things he sells”, well, I try to be clear about why I recommend various things, whether we sell them or not, that I think people would love to hear for themselves. But me? Overly exuberant? If you knew me, you’d realize how much of a stretch this would be. But seriously, most people want me to be MORE exuberant on the blog - but less so than the typical reviewer - so that is the balance I struggle for.

Please, you do not wahnt to discuss this subject with me.

 The Federated Mike wrote:
Anyway, Romy, you are welcome to visit here anytime, or our room at RMAF. Then, at least you would know *exactly* how bad everything sounds.

Thinks, I do not go to shows anymore, too boring and too much off the marks of my interests. It is actually why I am interning to hear your comments if the comments are free from idiotic glorification agenda and your desire to pitch to the hoodlums the BS what they would like to read. I will be reading you follow-up about ML3 sound, it is despite of the fact that you (as well as anybody else) have very positive feedback about own sonic accomplishments at the shows and despite that eat show I have attended each room sound beyond any criticism.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
10-18-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,511
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 66
Post ID: 8548
Reply to: 8462
The Federated Mike about LAMM ML3
fiogf49gjkf0d

In his RMAF the Federated Mike post some comments about his use of ML3:

http://www.audiofederation.com/hifiing/2008/RMAF2008/report/1500/floor_9/#audio_federation

Even though his comments from my point of view have “issuers” but Mike’s comments still are way more natural then the asphyxiated crap that paid “industry reviewer” have written about ML3. Here are the Federated Mike's comments that related to Lamm’s new SET. The rest of the comments you might red at the Federated Blog:

The Lamm ML3 amps preformed spectacularly. Much more macro dynamics than at home. Likely due to HRS under Marten crossover and solidity of floor.

The ML3 is the pinnacle of the audiophile amplifier. It does all those audiophile things. Unlikely to be challenged for a decade or more. Solid-state approaches the ideal but controlling the note waveform well-enough to imitate music is not/may not ever be on the agenda. Audio Note is taking a different approach altogether [energy transfer] focusing on musicality, happy to sacrifice uber resolution and imaging when necessary. WAVAC is going for something, unknown, but unfortunately not harmonics and correct decay. Kondo, in my opinion, was going for spiritual essence. Who else is there?

About average equipment, one describes what they do well.

About excellent equipment one describes what they do not do well.

But the Lamm ML3 doesn't really do anything unexcellent. I can contrast and compare to the Audio Note Kegon Balanced and Ongaku... but, really, for the audiophile who is searching for that sound - that instantiation of everything audiophiles have been striving for in the last few decades - this is it. The exact, expected amount of harmonics [between Joule and WAVAC. OK, everybody is between Joule and WAVAC, But...], superb linearity [linearity in the harmonic content, micro- midi- and macro-dynamics up and down the frequency spectrum], resolution that has not been seen in an amplifier before, control of the microforms of each note never before seen in an amplifier, ... More later. And we were just starting to learn about this amp. Great amps take years to understand.

What will probably shock :-) the Lamms, who play Jazz and mostly Classical music, is that these amps... or at least this system with the ML3s, love Hendrix-style guitar. We talked about how these sounded great on Stevie Ray Vaughan's Tin Pan Alley. How it captured the slow guitar picks with such exquisite care that we just felt honored to be able to finally experience Stevie's talent in our living room. For all these years, I never knew how good he was. Sure, we heard the LP many times. But to hear how he was laying the pick across the strings, and how he was moving the strings around to get the exact sound - and to HEAR the exact sound he was going for....

And at the show, someone brought in a copy of the Woodstock LP, they gave it to Neli and I was out of the room at the beginning - but during the song, and into the Star Spangled Banner - it was just so colorful and rich and each layer of sound was rendered so accurately and firmly. Jimi's rendition never sounded so damned excruciatingly BEAUTIFUL before. Yeah, it is was and still is an in-your-face we-are-here noisy shout of rebellion from the youth to the old stodgy class who always seem to be trying to stop everyone from having fun, no matter which decade it is. But there seemed to be a lot more there, that the ML3 was able to extract how much effort Jimi put in, how much love and anguish and anger and caring about America he put into each of his notes. Perhaps I was reading too much into his technique - but this was really intense.

Neli tells me that she has had similar experiences with solo violin and operettas. That the ML3's capture the riveting nature of a soloist - just like a live performance. [Neli: It's not like the complexity of the orchestral background is lost -- in fact, there is a real sense, say, of individual violins in the string section -- but the listener's attention is drawn to the beauty and power of the soloists performance -- just like what happens IMO at a live show. At each level everything is rendered in perfect proportion.].

Thinking about it now - it is apparent that the system itself, even this system, in support of the Lamms, was a limiting factor.  For example, we used a 10 meter run of Valhalla, which, although sounding better at longer lengths, still should be ODIN. Well, not should be, but it would sure be nice. Another example: Nordost was kind enough to lend us a ODIN power cord, but how we wished for a PAIR; we would have put them on the ML3s. Another example: The ML3s were all on HRS M3 bases, which are the best vibration isolation available today. But the M3s were on the carpet, and putting the M3 on SXR amp stands would add another little extra boost in performance, The point is that with these amps, the system can evolve and continue to be upgraded for a very long time and you will just hear more and more of what the amps can REALLY do.




"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
01-31-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,511
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 67
Post ID: 9589
Reply to: 3468
Look, Dorothy, the Marsians!
fiogf49gjkf0d
 Romy the Cat wrote:

LammML3_2.jpg


I visited Lamm web site and read his page with CES report.

http://www.lammindustries.com/SHOWHIST/ces2009_report.html

Behind the “expected” comment form a few industry revisers there is something that I did not see. Look at the Wes Phillips’ comment under the picture of Lamm’s ML3 circuit board: “This is what the Lamm ML3 Signature looks like under the hood. Clean layout and P2P wiring throughout.”

Really, the point to point wiring throughout? Did you not a nuclear reactor in the first stage and the underwear of Princes Diana in the second and the coupling made by the Brooklyn Bridge architecture? Is ability to express idiocy the mandatory requirement to become a Stereophile staff reviewer? What actually even more finnier is not the fact of Mr. Phillips comment but the Lamm decided to publish this idiocy on his web site and by doing it he actually “certified” Phillips’ comments. Very funny!

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
09-17-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,511
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 68
Post ID: 14480
Reply to: 7612
The super idiot!
fiogf49gjkf0d
 Romy the Cat wrote:


Somebody Breuninger bought Lamm ML3 and L1 to drive his Coincident  and share his finding on TAS blog. Regardless how mature his comment are but there was something unavoidable – the wipe-ass professional with name “oneobgyn” showed up. Oneobgyn is an internet moniker for Steve Williams – Lamm ‘s court whore -  whose thinking is so predictable and spurious as it was made by crossing the genes of Mike Lavigne from Seattle  and Jonathan Tinn from Oregon. Some more or less seasoned audio people with sensibility more than Glenn Beck would know what I mean.

Anyhow, this Oneobgyn retard did his typical pearl that made me very happy for all Lamm users:

“…. the output tubes are GM-70 (not GL-70) and come stock with a carbon plate. FWIW, Vladimir managed to find 6 pair of GM-70 copper plated tubes which apparently all there were in the world. I bought a pair (not cheap at $900/pair). Presents a totally different sound than the carbon plated GM-70's”

(from http://www.avguide.com/blog/listening-alert-state-the-art-the-lamm-ml3-signature-the-lamm-ll1-signature)

BTW, Oneobgyn wrote the ML3 used 6H30 tubes and this is not true. 10 years ago BAT marketing whore assured that they bought out all remaining 6H30 stock in the world. If so then how the damn Lamm (and zillion of other manufacturers) are able to source 6H30 for his amp. Imposable! Anyhow, I am glad that the idiot paid $900 for GM-70. I am sure that Lamm contributed a portion of it to the Glenn Beck’s Restoring Honor rally and I am sure the money came back to him via his new stupid customers…

Anyhow, if you see any copper GM70 then be advised that they are contraband from Mars so, Oneobgyn, boil it before sticking it on your own ass.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
12-05-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,511
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 69
Post ID: 15090
Reply to: 3468
Lamm ML3+LL1- another stupid $200 worth review.
fiogf49gjkf0d

A few years back an editor of a “famous” audio publication asked me if I write for him. I explained to him that I have no interest to build my own audio clientele, that have no cronies manufacturers whose products I would like to promote, that I have no audio-circles who I would like to patronize and to get their worthless benefits from them and it is highly unlikely that his publication would be able even to touch the subjects that I am interested in audio. But as any respected myself whore-contractor I asked him how much he would pay me for a “review”. He said that he pays $200 but in my specials case he can go to $250. I replied that unit he talks about $20K it will be no further conversation. He told me that I was an idiot. The feeling was mutual in that case.

A few days ago somebody told me that The Absolute Sound published a review by Peter Breuninger about Lamm ML3 and LL1. I have mentioned Peter Breuninger in here:

http://www.GoodSoundClub.com/TreeItem.aspx?PostID=14480

In my post I did not call Mr. Breuninger  as an idiot but that was making fun on the comment of the dirt that really hate: “Oneobgyn” aka Steve Williams. That level of retards that Lamm is associated nowadays, good for him…

Anyhow, returning back to the Peter Breuninger review.  I do not know who Peter is it looks like he come to “reviewing circle” from “outside” but what he did is exactly what I call get when you paid $200 for a man to do the job. Even I do like some Peter’s attempts but desire to talk like the “reviewing establishment” is absolutely idiotic. Only his own expressions about ML3 (no matter how few of them in the review) are interesting and somehow accurate. The rest is file with cookie-cutter stupidity or ignorant mistakes.

The reciting of the story that Lamm does not design with listening tests is foolish. The comments like “…output transformer can handle idiotic amount of current. Voltages and currents are simply off the charts in SET designs” are to idiot to criticize. The GM70 suddenly become the “Russian Military transmitting tube” that in fact is lie - GM70 was made for transportation communications systems (railroad signaling and so on). There are many moments like this… but it all come with $200 price tag – what else could be expected.

Frankly speaking I do discard the Peter Breuninger comment as he is absolutely wrong person to express his opinion about ML3. What a guy who before ML3 used MBL 101E has to say about anything. Get yourself a pair Lamm M1.1 and spend a few years to learn about your MBL 101E. Would it be obvious that any person who has interest in sound of new Lamm amp would like to hear from people who used and well-familiar with Lamm ML2.0? Lamm ML2.0 was in production for 8 years I believe and among all very positive reviews there was NONE that give the ML2.0a justness of evaluation. The ML2.0never was properly reviewed and most of the people out there still did not know what kind amp it was and what it was capable of. Interesting that among a 2-3 dozens of ML2.0 owners that I know/knew I know one 3 people who in my view are familiar with ML2.0 sound (excluding Lamm). If anything, I would like to hear their perception about ML3, the perception that based the deep familiarly with ML2.0.

To get a guy who juts catapulted from MBL planet to make him to write his thoughts about Lamm ML3 and LL1 is worthless. I do not blame Peter Breuninger. He did his part of unconsciousness reviewing imitations. I do not think he had bad intentions. I did the same in my past what I was subconsciously structuring my thoughts into “existing reviewing format”.  It was back in 2000, thanks I am 10 year more mature from that:

http://www.audioasylum.com/reviews/Amplifier-Tube/Lamm-Audio-Laboratory/any/general/41695.html

But the point is that Peter Breuninger’s 95% of expressionism is just a tribute to the same subconsciously crap the inquiry implemented into the minds of audio users.  Peter did not have bad intentions but because he wanted to end up with a “review” his own novel about ML3 and LL1 ended to be 95% of plagiarism from any single industry idiot who wrote those stupid reviews before him. As the result the review was empty and the light was no lit on ML3 and LL1. Was no lit again….

Rgs, Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
12-14-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,511
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 70
Post ID: 15191
Reply to: 15090
I am sorry, I made a mistake.
fiogf49gjkf0d
I am sorry, I made a mistake, I my post above I presume that Peter Breuninger is just a new Lamm owner why is trying to wrote his “reviews”. As a reader of my site has pointed out today - Peter is Stereophile and TAS writer - well this makes so much more sense than! Ironically this weekend I was soaking in by bathtub and I took the wet TAS with Mr. Breuninger article. Upon second reading I found a great pearl worth the talent of the great audio intellectual.

Breuninger_Slogan.GIF

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
08-20-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,511
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 71
Post ID: 18532
Reply to: 3397
Federated Mike about his The Lamm ML3 Experience
fiogf49gjkf0d
http://audiofederation.com/blog/archives/1131



"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
08-20-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,138
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 72
Post ID: 18533
Reply to: 18532
Say, What???
fiogf49gjkf0d

Perhaps he's still trying to wrap his mind around the experience?  In any case, it's definitely not ready for the Robb Report!  There was the requisite mention of "components in this price category" but, otherwise, is he awestruck, or simply dumb-struck, like Harry Pearson meets Mr. Bean?  I think he means to exalt the thing; but from reading the blurb with my usual inattention, it's not clear (let alone compelling) why.

On the one hand, it's amazing there hasn't been more (better) written about this amp by now.  On the other hand, at this price point, this seems almost inevitable.

Best regards,
Paul S

08-19-2013 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,511
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 73
Post ID: 19946
Reply to: 3397
Another incredibly stupid Lamm ML3 review
fiogf49gjkf0d
The last nigh we went to book store – the wify wanted to buy UK traveling guide and I glanced the September Stereophile magazine. It had two interesting artless – Art Dudley look like publicly was loosing his virginity about horns and Mike Framer had his time with Lamm ML3 . I did not read the Lamm ML3 review attentively but only skimmed it. It was incredibly dumb, in the best Michael Framer’s traditions. In the very beginning he insisted that Vladimir Lamm was in Russian a rocket scientist. I have no idea where this BS came from. Vladimir did work in very reputable position that had nothing to do with rocket and I absolutely see no need for the idiot Framer’ to make up stories like this.

The biggest thing that I sensed from that review was that Mr. Framer was all over his writing staggering with how to make his big Wilson to sound with this or that type of bass and then he brought some kind of SS amps to make some kind of damp points. I truly did not get what he was trying to say or to do. The idea is that if you are gifted enough to use $140K power amp and $180K loudspeakers then the you might demonstrate some kind of intelligence  and not just to plug and play the stupid amplifiers and than just bitching that he had no bass, or too soft bass or too hard bass. A newcomer got to store, buy amps and speakers, dump them in the room and then run online posting what they heard. The experienced and more or less evolved audio individuals with some listening intelligence and practical accomplishment know that any more or less serious bass is not a spontaneous achievement but rather ad hoc efforts. It is not to mention that many of the recordings that the idiot had mentioned in his review have very wrong bass to begin with.

Anyhow, I did not read the review carefully but the impression that I got was that Vladimir Lamm was a fool that he allowed the idiot to review his amplifiers. Well, Vladimir is an industry player and to live with idiots, equally to make electronics for idiot is his destiny – good luck!

The irony that the way how Michael Framer reviewed the ML3 is remarkably similar to the relationship between my wife and plans. Amy, like any other girls love plants, she can’t get eight and if it up to her then we would like in jangles. She also has an amazing ability to kill any plant as she absolutely inept in gardening. She does not belle that plans need water, sun or anything else. She feels that fertilizing plans means to buy fertilizer and put the fertilizer bag in shad. In the result she keeps buying plant and they keep dyeing our house with amassing consistency. I call our home “plans Guantanamo”. Do not take me wrong – she is amazingly cute when she walks around another dead plant that last time saw water during Bush administration and she is asking the plant why it has died. However, Amy just with amassing persistency kills her plants but she not insist to pontificate the public about her agricultural view sand to not insist that she express reference gardening opponent about   a new breed of knock out roses. Unfortunately Michael Framer does and he by demonstrating his ignorance and adulterating stupidity he does a great deserves to whatever he touches. What an idiot!

The caT


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
08-19-2013 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,138
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 74
Post ID: 19947
Reply to: 19946
Evolution
fiogf49gjkf0d
What one NEVER hears from these guys is why and how they evolve their sound over time, and this is because the particular product or products is/are the focus, rather than any organic, felt sense of sound that is merely facilitated - or not - by the gear.  It is interesting, however, that Framer "codes" into his review the fact that the ML3s lack the power to drive the big audiophile direct driver speakers, without simply saying so, outright.  In fact, he several times talks about "efficiency", as though this formula is a get-out-of-jail-free card.  Like all these guys today, Framer tends to lean on particular things he particularly notices while listening to particular recordings that he goes on and on about, as if this, in itself, better qualifies his observations.  Framer also notes in "associated equipment" that he uses the Shunyata power conditioners.  Yet, again, none of these guys EVER bitch about the electricity as being problematic during the course of a "review".

Clearly, Framer was not given the job to "introduce" the ML3; this was done some time ago by Mickelson,  or the like.  So, Mikey basically ignores his "status", but the "review" is not an unqualified recommendation, either.

As for Art Dudley, though he mentions he prefers the reviewed horns to the "metal" horns in his Valencias, I think he never did specifically bitch about the sound from the stock 811s, etc., which would be fairly incredible, in itself.  IMO, there is much more than "metal" to readily pick apart in that sound.

My mom used to love the idea of house plants, too, and was just as adept at killing them. We dubbed her "The Black Thumb".


Paul S
08-19-2013 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,511
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 75
Post ID: 19948
Reply to: 19947
Another round of revenue incentives.
fiogf49gjkf0d
 Paul S wrote:
What one NEVER hears from these guys is why and how they evolve their sound over time, and this is because the particular product or products is/are the focus….
Sure, it would be very reasonable expectation to hear about the evolution. It would be even more reasonable to review the reviewer's capacity to form evolutionary objectives, to observe them or even to express the observations. So, far the linguistic crap that Framer-like “intellectuals” defecate out himself monthly are not observations about sound from a particular product but rather a anniversary verbiage made to commemorate a new round of industry taxation. 
 
The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
08-20-2013 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Stitch


Behind The Sun
Posts 226
Joined on 01-15-2009

Post #: 76
Post ID: 19957
Reply to: 19948
Preparing a new price range
fiogf49gjkf0d
I listened to exactly that combination for a longer time (Wilson Alexandria + ML3...) and the "review" (let's replace it with product placement) is the same joke than Harley with ML2.2 linked with the Magico Speakers (simply THE mismatch)....

ML3.jpg




Anyway, it is simply another example (from countless) that the reviewers are the right hand of Manufacturers. That is no real secret, but even 2013 there are enough endless Stupidos (= Audiophiles) who believe this written nonsense and implement it as their own - matching - Religion. But, the background for these "reviews" is much more simple: The reviewers want to open a new price range for High End, they want to show everybody that the next unit is always better and the higher the price is, the better it is. The more you can afford, the better you can enjoy listening to music. Any critics can be killed with the simple sentence "you are jealous because you can't afford it", those who do will never write a critical comment because they are not able to detect it. They are not interested in it. It is the next toy after the exotic car and like everything in our life, it is great to get the respect from an audiophile forum (Hey, great, congratulation, experienced audiophile.....blubber). We can't blame them because they get the result they always knew (I knew that the Alexandria/Continuum, ML3, DarTZeel is so super, that's why I bought it even before all those other idiots knew it....), that is the idea behind Marketing since its existence. Done right. Those richies have only ONE "logic" in a discussion: When someone says, that he has something better, they accept it at once, WHEN IT IS MORE EXPENSIVE But they go totally nuts when you say, hey that match is BS, I had it and went for a unit at 1/5th of the price and it is absolutely superior. 
So, where is the difference? There is indeed none and when, then there is only one: When it is a well known Manufacturers (say, Audio Research, Lamm, VTL, Krell and so on) and when they want to launch a product in such a high price range, everyone will get a top "review". Simple as that. A newcomer has to look for an Importer with good contacts to those guys who are able to identify a pencil after 3 of 4 tries. Otherwise he will fail.
I don't care but I was wondering, when that - Fremer - combo gave him superior results (ML3+Alexandria ) for nearly 300k$, then I can say (because I know it and I know what is possible) that he has absolutely no idea from a real good High End Reproduction. Or, in short to all of them (there are more than you think): Suckers
They like it and feel good. That's the way it is.



Kind Regards
Stitch
08-20-2013 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,511
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 77
Post ID: 19958
Reply to: 19957
That is the sad story
fiogf49gjkf0d
Well, there is not really blame in the situation as anyone has good and honorable intentions.

Wilson does what they do and Aleksandra might be not your type of speakers but the larges Wilsons do have own charm and charisma. I would argue that 85% of Aleksandra dedicated to what the given topology can’t do but it is the set of compromised they chose to operate.

Lamm does his amplifier and he does as well as he can. Coming up with LM3 the objective was clear – to attack the market of mid 90dB sensitivity and got access to Wilson dealers.  I never hear ML3 but I think it shall be fine amplifiers, still very much limited by own topology for own cost, very much like the large Wilsons.

Framer does also what he does and he does it well. Well, whole existence is to trumpet whatever he was given to trumpet. If you have a poison snake bite you then you do not blame her, do you? The same is with pure Mike Framer. The unfortunate understands sound as a sequence of products he was given to sell. Mr. Framer understand sound no more like a sale person in sex shop would describe  love as a sequence  of discount extended to the new arrived dildos. He is slave to own occupation and in a way a victim.

We certainly do not describe neither Wilson nor Lamms and “bad buy” or not worthy audio products. Whoever like them they can get them and to be happy. What however we can and in a way shall think is about topological worth and from my perspective large Wilsons and much as large Lamms miss the target.  You can put on a child 3-while bicycle a Rolls-Royce jet engine and market it as stratosphere interceptor, charging accordingly. However, topologically it will be just a kid’s bike. The problem that I see in all of it that neither David Wilson nor Vladimir Lamm looks like do not design for the pushy sound of own mind but rather make  their products for Framer-like sales pimps. It is like you a cook in pizza shop and you make the best pizzas you know of and you proud of your pizza taste. Than a big corporate asshole Mike Framer from a local hospital comes to you  and say that he pays to you to delivery 300 pizzas each day to the next door hospital and he does not care how the piazza taste but he wants $5 of each pie. Of cause you happy to do business with the sales guy but along with it you bare any of your gourmet ambitions.  That is the sad story…
 
The caT


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
08-21-2013 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
steverino
Posts 299
Joined on 05-23-2009

Post #: 78
Post ID: 19959
Reply to: 19958
Funny thread
fiogf49gjkf0d
This is a funny thread and more amusing than anything in Stereophile or TAS these days. I get the feeling that they are both just going through the motions and are having trouble writing about any of this stuff. Even they can't fail to notice that the gear is stuck at some level and that actually the old designs are coming back with better implementation and engineering. The main advance has been on electricity or alternatively batteries. A wine journal might be able to rhapsodize about the 1962 RougeAviatrix taken from the topmost hectare but it's harder with a semi technical subject like audio. They need to hire better writers to hide this in poetic transports (no pun intended).
08-21-2013 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,511
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 79
Post ID: 19960
Reply to: 19959
They can't sell it.
fiogf49gjkf0d
Steverino, the point you make is very valid in my view and I made the same point in past. They do stuck and they are in the business to find new and new motivations for people to buy. It is not that the equipment stuck but rather the guys who made the purpose of own existence to motivate others to make a purchase do stuck within their capacity to express those motivations. It is like CNN would day after day and year after year report the state of traffic light at some kind of town intersection. It is not that equipment makers do not give motivations to be exiting and inventive, even sometime they do not give those motivations. Still, rather it is about inability of the industry revisers to target their sales efforts to anything more audio-intellectual then themselves.


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
09-12-2013 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,511
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 80
Post ID: 20048
Reply to: 19946
Oh boy, another review. *yawn*
fiogf49gjkf0d
I do not review of the review review. I have no time or intention, even read all of it but I do provide the info about Federated  Mike blog:

http://audiofederation.com/blog/archives/1154

http://audiofederation.com/blog/archives/1155

http://audiofederation.com/blog/archives/1156

http://audiofederation.com/blog/archives/1157

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
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