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06-15-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
dady
Posts 4
Joined on 07-28-2005

Post #: 41
Post ID: 13756
Reply to: 13749
Yes, you right...
fiogf49gjkf0d
He stop of make recordings from the 1950 because he considered that the quality of them was insufficient for the music. He restarted of make them later. The version i have is the munich one of EMI but the other is from DG and is a little bit wrong. The tempo of this director was lentisimos but very detailed and with emphasis. I will get the danish version but probably its before 1950.
Best Regards
Esteban
08-05-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,292
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 42
Post ID: 14186
Reply to: 10840
12th annual Bruckner Marathon, California
fiogf49gjkf0d

Join us on Saturday, September 4, 2010, to celebrate Bruckner's 186th birthday in Carlsbad, California.  This year marks our 12th annual Bruckner Marathon and we'd like to share some good music with Bruckner lovers.

As in previous years, we'll play the numbered symphonies (incl. the "Nullte") and two shorter works in an informal setting, with intermissions between works and plenty of food and drinks to keep us going.

As in previous years,  we offer a combination of noteworthy live and studio recordings.  Special features include a DVD of Sawallisch's performance of the Second symphony, a live Van Beinum performance of the Fourth, a nice remastering of Furtwängler's incandescent wartime performance of the Fifth by Opus Kura, a live performance of the Sixth with the Gustav Mahler Youth Orchestra under Ingo Metzmacher, a wonderful remastering of Matacic's classic Seventh with the Czech Philharmonic and a live Ninth with the VPO from the orchestra's tour last year under Mehta.

As before, a pamphlet with notes on each recording will be provided to attendees. In addition, we will continue the tradition of the annual Bruckner Quiz, whose winner will be the proud owner of a surprise gift.

Here's the playlist in the sequence we will play it:

- Overture in G minor: Skrowaczewski/Saarbrücken Radio Symphony Orchestra (Oehms Classics, 2001)
- Symphony No. 0: Inbal/Frankfurt Radio Symphony Orchestra (Teldec, 1990)
- Symphony No. 1: Solti/Chicago Symphony Orchestra (Decca, 1995)
- Symphony No. 2: Sawallisch/Bavarian State Orchestra (live, Private Label DVD, 1985)
- Symphony No. 3: Young/Hamburg Philharmonic (live, Oehms Classics, 2006)
- Symphony No. 4: Van Beinum/Concertgebouw Orchestra (live, Private Label CD, 1950s)
- Symphony No. 5: Furtwängler/Berlin Philharmonic (live, Opus Kura CD, 1942)
- Adagio from String Quintet: Blomstedt/Leipzig Gewandhaus Orchestra (Decca, 1997)
- Symphony No. 6: Metzmacher/Gustav Mahler Youth Orchestra (live, Ludwigsburg, Private Label CD, 2005)
- Symphony No. 7: Matacic/Czech Philharmonic (Supraphon, 1967, Japanese XRCD)
- Symphony No. 8: Asahina/Tokyo Metropolitan Symphony Orchestra (live, Fontec, 1998)
- Symphony No. 9: Mehta/Vienna Philharmonic (live Musikverein, Private Label CD, Feb. 2009)

When: Saturday, September 4th, 2010
Where: 3267 Madison Street, Carls
bad, California, 92008
Starting time: 9 AM

Please feel free to bring your favorite food and drinks (especially Bruckner's favorite beverage) to share.  Contributions will be taken towards lunch and/or dinner.  For directions and more information, contact Ramón Khalona at RKhalona@hotmail.com or Dave Griegel at DavidGriege@FairIsaac.com.

We look forward to seeing you.
Ramon Khalona and Dave Griegel
 



"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
08-05-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,052
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 43
Post ID: 14187
Reply to: 14186
All the News That's Fit to Print
fiogf49gjkf0d
OK, I no longer keep my finger on the Arts Pulse here in (greater) San Diego; but the Bruckner thing has got to be worth a traffic jamb or two, even if it sounds pretty "quaint", at best.

And how odd that I am advised of the event by an e-note from Boston.  FYI, this has not created so much as a blip on local "cultural radar"; I've seen/heard nothing from NPR, local "classical" radio or the main SD rag, so far.

So, thanks for the tip, Romy.  I'll keep my eyes peeled for greater Boston events...

Best regards,
Paul S
12-15-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,292
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 44
Post ID: 15200
Reply to: 4765
Another great pre-war Bruckner 7
fiogf49gjkf0d

Somebody posted at Symphonyshare a great recording that I been enjoying for 2 days. It is Eugen Jochum leads Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra. Among all the Bruckner 7 that Jochum recorded I think this is the earliest I hears and it is very very good, probably with exception of the third movement. The first two movements are beyond reproach. It was recorded by Telefunken in May of 1939

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=VB310AKE

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
12-16-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
zako
Posts 85
Joined on 05-25-2008

Post #: 45
Post ID: 15204
Reply to: 6220
Bruckner
fiogf49gjkf0d
After listening to Bruckner many many times,,  And professionally recording his compositions,, I am compelled to make this auwfull statement,,, I feel that he is a second rate composer,,,He,s done a large body of work,,But his overall statement,,,TO ME is repitisially boering,,,  I sat there looking at his score " the V11" (while recording) and thought he missed a good oppertunity,here, to rephrese and pull this symphony around and make it great,,,But he slips into his bad habbit of repitionally sliding back into the Bruckterian muck,,, I,m not trying to offend Bruckner followers here,,But just expressing my feelings,,,I wiil go down stairs and again audition The Sym,V11 today,,as a pennence. 
12-16-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,292
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 46
Post ID: 15205
Reply to: 15204
“Us” and the external rating of our stimuli.
fiogf49gjkf0d

 zako wrote:
After listening to Bruckner many many times,,  And professionally recording his compositions,, I am compelled to make this auwfull statement,,, I feel that he is a second rate composer,,,He,s done a large body of work,,But his overall statement,,,TO ME is repitisially boering,,,  I sat there looking at his score " the V11" (while recording) and thought he missed a good oppertunity,here, to rephrese and pull this symphony around and make it great,,,But he slips into his bad habbit of repitionally sliding back into the Bruckterian muck,,, I,m not trying to offend Bruckner followers here,,But just expressing my feelings,,,I wiil go down stairs and again audition The Sym,V11 today,,as a pennence. 
Trust me: the Bruckner followers would not be offended.  Why to be offended and why to consider the statement auwfull?

Yes, in way I agree that Bruckner is a “second rate composer”.  The common thinking in here is that Bruckner did not compose his 14 symphonies but composed one symphonies 14 times. The similarity of expressionism of cause is there. Still, I do not approach to stratification of my expressionism base ups the irrelevant rating. What does it mean the “second rate composer”, I mean we understand what it means but what benefit this knowledge has to us, to me to you? I can give you a long list of 8th rate composers that did something that I consider was brilliant and love endlessly. I can look at some music of the “first rate composers” – I would put Mahler in there for instance – that might not touch me as much as some other music might.

When I was young I was in love with a girl next door and I was running to date with her on n bicycle, I was inspired. Then, years later, I was dating women to whom I was driving the expensive BMW but I did not experience even a fraction of that enthusiasm. Does it mean that bicycle is better transportation then BMW?

I am sure that you know the answer. The answers are within us. The rating of composers according to their composing, expressive and orchestration power is a fascinating thing to do but it hardly makes any dent on my listening preferences. Bruckner IS the second rate composer but I truly can’t not get enough of him. Does it make me the second rate listener?  That is something that I absolutely do not care. One of the greatest accomplishments that I did in audio is my realization that the only person to whom I need to prove anything in audio (in audio?) is myself. The second rate? Who cares!

BTW, taking about great Brukner. Listening now the Volkmar Andreae’s Bruckner with Vienna Symphony Orchestra. To all Bruckner fans - here is a phenomenal Xmas gift:

http://nubespartem.blogspot.com/2010/12/bruckner-symphonies-1-9-te-deum-volkmar.html

Rgs, Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
12-16-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
unicon


Posts 72
Joined on 10-14-2009

Post #: 47
Post ID: 15206
Reply to: 15204
Bruckner fantasy
fiogf49gjkf0d
 zako wrote:
After listening to Bruckner many many times,,  And professionally recording his compositions,, I am compelled to make this auwfull statement,,, I feel that he is a second rate composer,,,He,s done a large body of work,,But his overall statement,,,TO ME is repitisially boering,,,  I sat there looking at his score " the V11" (while recording) and thought he missed a good oppertunity,here, to rephrese and pull this symphony around and make it great,,,But he slips into his bad habbit of repitionally sliding back into the Bruckterian muck,,, I,m not trying to offend Bruckner followers here,,But just expressing my feelings,,,I wiil go down stairs and again audition The Sym,V11 today,,as a pennence. 



Zako you are absolutely right ... I even consider him worse than second hand composer.
Playing Bruckner I never can figure out which symphony I am hearing 1,2 ..7 (beside the symphony no 3, 8 lll)
He just went on making it a routine. you need to be in your good routine daily life while listening to it and you need some bottles of wine
and think about nothing.
anyhow I do not consider anyone like Brcukner as second hand listener.
but I definitely consider it too painful repeating some of his works , it is like being in audio hell introduced by Bruckner himself.

unicon

12-16-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
clarkjohnsen
Boston, MA, US
Posts 289
Joined on 06-02-2004

Post #: 48
Post ID: 15207
Reply to: 15206
Why people don't like Bruckner
fiogf49gjkf0d
I think this relates to the diminishing popularity of baseball. Yes. Baseball is "America's National Pastime"... and called that for good reason. The operative word is "pastime". Baseball properly speaking is not a sport (nor is cricket for that matter) -- sport being that where action happens -- but rather a way for people to spend fine time together in a leisurely manner. Dreadfully old-fashioned, old chap!

Modern life demands speed and variety and short segments. None of that, in Bruckner. Granted you can find those aspects in many great composers, but few besides Bruckner dare to forego almost entirely the crowd-pleasing calisthenics.

Go, Anton!

clark
12-16-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
clarkjohnsen
Boston, MA, US
Posts 289
Joined on 06-02-2004

Post #: 49
Post ID: 15208
Reply to: 15205
Bicycles vs. BMWs
fiogf49gjkf0d
Great story... and analogy.

Happy to see you have found Hr. Andreae. His Bruckner set is as good as it will ever get (as a set by one conductor) and moreover represents an inheritance of decades of original Bruckner performance, although it was made late in the conductor's life (early Fifties). Not only that, but several of the symphonies are the first recorded performances by a Viennese orchestra.

Next I recommend Georg-Ludwig Jochum, whose Bruckner was pretty much superior to that of his brother Eugen -- although I've never stacked up an Andreae vs. G-L. Jochum comparison. I do know that one time when I was confined to bed and had just acquired the G-LJ box I listened to his Fifth three times in a row,

clark
12-17-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
JANDL100


Forest of Dean, UK
Posts 71
Joined on 09-27-2007

Post #: 50
Post ID: 15210
Reply to: 15208
The Sesame Street generation?
fiogf49gjkf0d

Two minutes for a self-contained sketch ... then onto the next hit!  And then the next ... and the next .... Whoa! - exciting stuff.
But Bruckner isn't like that - he is in it for the long haul, for the gradual deep development.  The spaciousness and spirituality of the vaulted cathedral rather than the snappy excitement of the discotheque.

Yes, as you may have guessed by now, I am a Bruckner fan.  Perhaps my favorite composer?  Certainly and without any doubt indespensible to my happiness in life.




Jerry
12-17-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
JANDL100


Forest of Dean, UK
Posts 71
Joined on 09-27-2007

Post #: 51
Post ID: 15211
Reply to: 15210
Volkmar Andreae
fiogf49gjkf0d
Yes, a great Bruckner conductor - but also a very fine composer in his own right.  I have a couple of CDs of Andreae's own music, both on the Swiss label Guild.  The string quartets are fine, but very special indeed are the piano trios.  Highly distinctive and very rewarding.


Jerry
12-17-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,292
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 52
Post ID: 15212
Reply to: 15206
Those Bruckner’s erogenous zones...
fiogf49gjkf0d
 unicon wrote:
Playing Bruckner I never can figure out which symphony I am hearing 1,2 ..7 (beside the symphony no 3, 8 lll)
If so, then what difference it makes you? The fact of immediate recognition is just a properly of familiarity. I for instance never confuse anything from 2nd and 7th but even if I did then what difference it makes? I think the purpose of listening is not to hear a tune and be able to position it within geography of your record shelves. It happens frequently that listen some work or more frequently chamber piece and have no slightest idea who it is. So, what is wrong with it? I think the important thing is not to be abscessed with your mind “owns” this or that piece of music but rather with to wonder if your mind does not loose itself in this music. From think perspective I think Bruckner is very clear, no matter what fraction of symphony you hear.  You always know where it coming from what it going and where you are as an observer.
 
Sure, Bruckner is not Mahler, not Richard Strauss and not Rimsky-Korsakov and he does not convert orchestral palette into a gipsy skirt. In a way, it is what I like about Bruckner and why I feel that that his music in a way recuperative after all those “expressionists”. Some women use a lot of make up to be feel pretty and some do need to…
 
The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
12-17-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,292
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 53
Post ID: 15213
Reply to: 15211
From a point of view of an ordinary snob…
fiogf49gjkf0d
 JANDL100 wrote:
Yes, a great Bruckner conductor ….
Hay, Jerry, long time no see…. I need to admit that Volkmar Andreae is better Bruckner conductor then his recordings are.  Even though I do like what is trying to do but I am not wild what he does. Volkmar Andreae clearly need better orchestras for his take on Bruckner. His recordings I listen were made Vienna Symphony. This is great orchestra and they had great musical directors: Furtwängler, Kabasta; Karajan but they do not sound like Vienna Philharmonic. What Volkmar Andreae in his take on Bruckner does not have (in my view) if the nobility and the very final authority of orchestral potency. Tonally his orchestra is not as complex and in ability to play soft his orchestra is not as able as Vienna Philharmonic or Berlin Philharmonic or Prague Philharmonic. Might he was screwed by the way how he was recorded? I do not know but his orchestra does sound to me as a final destination for Bruckner. BTW, this is the very same reasons why I do not like most of the Takashi Asahina’s Bruckner. All those Osaka Philharmonic, Tokyo Metropolitan, Japan Philharmonic, NHK Symphony Orchestra, Tokyo Symphony and others – they very seldom sound “serious” to me and frequently, if not always lack gravitas that I feel the Bruckner orchestra shall have. The Volkmar Andreae’s orchestra is not the NHK Symphony but it is not Vienna Philharmonic either….

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
12-17-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
clarkjohnsen
Boston, MA, US
Posts 289
Joined on 06-02-2004

Post #: 54
Post ID: 15218
Reply to: 15213
"Not Vienna Philharmonic either."
fiogf49gjkf0d
Actually it may be! At that time, and to some degree presently, the VPO had perhaps 250 members who played on a rotating basis; in fact a person didn't even have to attend the rehearsal to play in a concert. Those who weren't playing the VPO formed the basis of a rather large collection of other Vienna orchestras.

Moreover, the VPO gives not too many concerts per annum, but they always play at the Staatsoper.

Conclusion: You never know who you're hearing, of if the rehearsals even meant anything.

clark
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clarkjohnsen
Boston, MA, US
Posts 289
Joined on 06-02-2004

Post #: 55
Post ID: 15220
Reply to: 15210
"Bruckner is in it for the long haul."
fiogf49gjkf0d
That's the best in-six-words-or-less description of any composer I've ever read. Thanks!

clark
12-17-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,292
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 56
Post ID: 15221
Reply to: 15218
I do know what I am hearing.
fiogf49gjkf0d
 clarkjohnsen wrote:
Actually it may be! At that time, and to some degree presently, the VPO had perhaps 250 members who played on a rotating basis; in fact a person didn't even have to attend the rehearsal to play in a concert. Those who weren't playing the VPO formed the basis of a rather large collection of other Vienna orchestras.

Moreover, the VPO gives not too many concerts per annum, but they always play at the Staatsoper.

Conclusion: You never know who you're hearing, of if the rehearsals even meant anything.
I did know that VPO has rotating basis that “didn't even have to attend the rehearsals”. Yes, in large cities with a number of good orchestras the musicals are intermingling between the bands. In London for instance the whole compilation authentic or “period” instruments players do play for different orchestras, not the least chairs though.  The festival orchestras are customary built with whomever available… So, it is very possible that some members of Vienna Philharmonic played for Vienna Symphony. However, if you download the Volkmar Andreae recording that I linked able then you will see that Vienna Symphony under Andreae did not sound like Vienna Philharmonic. In fact it sounded more, I would say parsimonious. This is why I brought this whole subject.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
12-17-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
AOK_Farmer


Marlboro NY USA
Posts 63
Joined on 07-08-2004

Post #: 57
Post ID: 15223
Reply to: 15221
Vox Aeternae...
fiogf49gjkf0d
No one is even going to mention the Motets, Masses and jewel Te Deum? Seems to me that to get the Bruckner's musical ideas you have to understand his development from Contrapuntal organ --> Choral works --> Symphonies and the corresponding evolution of his ego. If you don't get Bruckner's symphonies (we are god) throttle back a notch and listen to the Choral music (god is god). Through it all he remains rooted in the beauty of the organs deep chromaticism.

Steve
01-05-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
yoshi
Jefferson (MA), United States
Posts 69
Joined on 05-04-2005

Post #: 58
Post ID: 15383
Reply to: 15223
4th?
fiogf49gjkf0d
I'm wondering why people do not mention Bruckner 4th, while 5,7,8, and 9 were talked about here and there.  I really love the 4th symphony.  My most favorite is Wand's last recording with NDR.  The one with Berlin Phil is great too.  As an orchestra performace, the one with Berlin might exceed in it's colorful, dynamic and tightly controlled structural sound, but his last recording with NDR, more monochrome and subdued, hits deeper in my soul.

Yoshi
01-05-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,292
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 59
Post ID: 15385
Reply to: 15383
Bruckner’s colors.
fiogf49gjkf0d
I do not think that anybody has anything against the 4th, it is the most popular his work, all two of them. What interest me in your comment is that you find more monochrome and subdued version as something that deeper touch your soul. Is it just because Wand read/play the 4th differently during his last recording with NDR or you find it more communicative because the monochrome qualities? To me it is very opposite, I would like Bruckner to be lit with all imaginary orchestral colors; of cause the Bruckner’s colors not the Rimski-Korsakov gipsy colors. To do it I need a good German orchestra – they can do it. You however feel that subdued tonal deficiency is advantageous? Is it a general tendency that you are looking for? Is it tendency you feel better only for Bruckner’s Romantic symphony? Is it a tendency you feel work out only for this specific Wand interpretation? If the last then would it be possible that you got touched with something else in what Wand did but the monochrome characteristic is the only thing the you played attention?


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
01-05-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
yoshi
Jefferson (MA), United States
Posts 69
Joined on 05-04-2005

Post #: 60
Post ID: 15387
Reply to: 15385
Monochrome
fiogf49gjkf0d
I do admitt that I have a tendancy to be attracted monochromic works in general, rather than colorful extarvaganza, both in music and visual.  The colors, even strong colors, when balanced and co-ordinated under a specific intention, can achieve somewhat monochromic quality, and I love that.

Japanese color.jpg

In case on Wand's last recording of 4th, every notes and phrases are so naturally placed without any strain, or feeling of any interpertation, it's almost like a Waka (Japanese traditional poem) masterpiece, in which the use of words and rhymes are so natural, you don't feel any intention or technic of the poet.  Just get the aethsetic/spiritual message.  2nd movement is exactly like that.  Also, from where the music turns quite mysterious right before the climax, then to the climax itself, I have more than 10 performances of 4th, but there's nothing like this.  No strain, no swagger, no show-off.  Just a steady, natural step to a nether world.

One other example of what I value most is heard on Herbert Kegel/Dresdner Philharmonie performing Bach's Aria from Ouverure 3, live in Tokyo 1989 (Altus ALT056).  There are zillion performances/recordings of Bach's Air.  Some plays it just as a beautiful piece of music, some puts an incredible amout of colors and nuances.  Some of them are really great musical achievement, but for me, this Kegel performanse is "IT".  It is also very subdued and monochrome with every nuance of joy and sorrow in the past embedded in it.

Maybe "in the past" is a key for me.  So many things happened in my recent life, I do not see my life in past~present~future term.  I have present and I have the past.  That's it.

Yoshi
Page 3 of 5 (82 items) Select Pages:  « 1 2 3 4 5 »
   Target    Threads for related reading   Most recent post in related threads   Forum  Replies   Views   Started 
  »  New  "Appeal to the Great Spirit"..  That hideous cover work!...  Musical Discussions  Forum     7  39954  07-01-2004
  »  New  Bruckner Ninth and the War...  Congratulations To Amy...  Musical Discussions  Forum     13  36465  04-07-2006
  »  New  The Yevgeny Mravinsky Film..  Mravinsky biography book....  Musical Discussions  Forum     9  40934  04-29-2006
  »  New  If you are in Bruckner: Lovro von Matacic ..  My Apologies to Georg Solti...  Musical Discussions  Forum     17  68692  10-29-2006
  »  New  The Eduardo Chibas and Bruckner..  The Eduardo Chibas and Bruckner...  Musical Discussions  Forum     0  10480  07-03-2007
  »  New  The Bruckner 5 by Benjamin Zander..  Defective Bruckner 5th...  Musical Discussions  Forum     6  28365  04-16-2008
  »  New  Bruckner Sinfonie Nr.8, B. Haitink, Concertgebow-Orcher..  Bruckner with no attenuation....  Musical Discussions  Forum     1  12598  10-23-2009
  »  New  How to play Bruckner Sound in Audio...  Being a pedagogical geniuses…...  Playback Listening  Forum     16  48661  06-15-2010
  »  New  Thinking about Bruckner harmonies...  My Bruckner?...  Musical Discussions  Forum     9  38807  04-16-2011
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