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04-09-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
mats
Chicago
Posts 76
Joined on 09-18-2005

Post #: 41
Post ID: 15963
Reply to: 15962
Cool plan!
fiogf49gjkf0d
Too late now for points, but just the other day I tried to imagine your plan. and I was pretty close.
Actually, it is a bit like what I have going now;  15" Eminence bass guitarr woofers in a sealed 3 cu ft cabinet,
Oris 150 with 8" B&C midrange driver, JBL 2435 (carefully filtered) on 340Hz Lecleach and
Fostex T90A gently on top.  Oh, and a tapped horn in the 25-45Hz range.  
To gain midrange resolution I aim to implement JBL 2482 on the Oris via an extender.
The 340Hz horn is too large, so 600Hz on the horizon, perhaps with field coil.
This will also provide space for a more refined ribbon top.
No room in this house for 60Hz horns.  I like the sealed upper bass solution.
I am at a loss for a more refined driver.  Even at 200Hz, second order the quality is very important.
You are satisfied with the upper sound of the 416's.
The best soiund I had on the Eminence was with a Marantz 8b that I had for a very short while.
Nice rosin growl on the cellos!
Hope you will realize the Cetla plan!
Mats
04-09-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,544
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 42
Post ID: 15964
Reply to: 15963
My plans are/will depend from....
fiogf49gjkf0d

 mats wrote:
Too late now for points, but just the other day I tried to imagine your plan. and I was pretty close.
Actually, it is a bit like what I have going now;  15" Eminence bass guitarr woofers in a sealed 3 cu ft cabinet,
Oris 150 with 8" B&C midrange driver, JBL 2435 (carefully filtered) on 340Hz Lecleach and
Fostex T90A gently on top.  Oh, and a tapped horn in the 25-45Hz range. 
To gain midrange resolution I aim to implement JBL 2482 on the Oris via an extender.
The 340Hz horn is too large, so 600Hz on the horizon, perhaps with field coil.
This will also provide space for a more refined ribbon top.
No room in this house for 60Hz horns.  I like the sealed upper bass solution.
I am at a loss for a more refined driver.  Even at 200Hz, second order the quality is very important.
You are satisfied with the upper sound of the 416's.
The best soiund I had on the Eminence was with a Marantz 8b that I had for a very short while.
Nice rosin growl on the cellos!
Hope you will realize the Cetla plan!
Mats

My plans are will wary from how the project will end up. If somebody pays me my $50K then it will be a complete, properly balance and well performing speaker with amplification. If I keep it for myself then it will be more like a pile of conceptual channels as I do not need from acoustic system in my fireplace living room any “pushy” sound.

The Altec 19 came to me accidently and mostly due to the residue of my stupid Christian repent.  About a year ago a local audio guy was complaining to me about his loudspeaker and was asking me what to buy for little money. Since he was jazz listener I advised him to get Altec 19 but I warned him that it will require modifying them. Unfortunately people hear only what they want to hear and my comments about need to modify them were discarded. The guy went and bough a mint condition Altec 19, the cleanest that I ever with the newest drivers I ever seen, brought them home and hated the sound. I was in his home at that time and I understand what he did not like but we heard them so differently. Knowing how Altec sound I discarded in my mind all things that are bad about Altec, knowing that it might be dealt with by modification. He did not have the luxury of my experience and he was very pissed with the result – here is one more of my “recommendations” burned in hell. In addition the guy wife did not like the look of Altec 19 in this room and the guy was appearing as he just was raped by Sasquatch. At that time I was moving the things from my storages at my new home and looking how frustrated he was I decided to take those “recommended” Altec 19 from his hands. I always liked how Altec 19 looks like and they looked very nice with my new mahogany-red floors. Yes, some moronic people who do not have furniture buy speakers to fill the room.

Altec19_Cetla_Ledom_91.JPG

I still like very much how the Altec 19 look in my fireplace room. The room is not being used in my house but at winter I do burn fireplace a lot – I love watch at fire. The fireplace room is too far from Macondo and it is a good idea to have some local speakers in it. The quality of these speakers in absolutely irrelevant however. If I sell the Cetla for my $50K then I’ll probably might be able to write off my fireplace room as some kind design facility or demo/testing room…

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
08-18-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,544
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 43
Post ID: 16836
Reply to: 13135
Rare commodity of the Altec 19.
fiogf49gjkf0d
Yesterday I was working for a half day at the part of the house were my Altec 19 are sitting and just to keep myself entertained I set up the Altec 19 to play from my add-hog playback: Sony $30 DVD player, Yamaha C2A preamplifier and Yamaha B-2 power amp, all connected with those horrible Radio Shack interconnects. It was not good sound, not that I was looking for any kind of Sound. However, again and again I have noticed the amassing quality of the Altec 19’s bass driver – it just never stops to up in dynamic. As I told many times before this characteristic to demonstrate absolute lack of compression in bass at high volume is the ONLY one worthy quality of this entire speaker. It is not the bass is good, it is very bad in fact – the typical ported crap but the way this bas climbing up in dynamic range is truly remarkable and VERY infrequent commodity that one very seldom can get even from a good horn.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
08-19-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
tokyo john
Narashino, Japan
Posts 32
Joined on 01-31-2006

Post #: 44
Post ID: 16840
Reply to: 15964
I might take you up on the offer Romy
fiogf49gjkf0d

I just stumbled on this thread, and am thinking about being your first customer.

I am planning to move to New York from Tokyo end of this year - not just escape the nuclear radiation but to let my kids experience a different culture.
Depending on my economic circumstances next year I would love to be able to order my Cetla from you and set it up in a room with a lovely fireplace like yours.

I am no Bill Gates so 50k is a lot of money for me, but as we have discussed before about value in audio, there is nothing out there commercially available  for 50k that looks honest (although I am curious about the Audio Machina Pure System that comes in a proper sealed enclosure), and your aims and goals with the design if achieved are worth 50k it seems to me.

Maybe someone else will ultimately beat me to the Cetla, but your designs for it will hopefully not be wasted either case!



08-19-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,544
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 45
Post ID: 16842
Reply to: 16840
Being my first customer?
fiogf49gjkf0d
 tokyo john wrote:
I just stumbled on this thread, and am thinking about being your first customer.

I am planning to move to New York from Tokyo end of this year - not just escape the nuclear radiation but to let my kids experience a different culture.
Depending on my economic circumstances next year I would love to be able to order my Cetla from you and set it up in a room with a lovely fireplace like yours.

I am no Bill Gates so 50k is a lot of money for me, but as we have discussed before about value in audio, there is nothing out there commercially available  for 50k that looks honest (although I am curious about the Audio Machina Pure System that comes in a proper sealed enclosure), and your aims and goals with the design if achieved are worth 50k it seems to me.

Maybe someone else will ultimately beat me to the Cetla, but your designs for it will hopefully not be wasted either case!
John, I have no customers and I do not trying to get any. I will tell you a secret and please keep it confidential. In audio people do not sell products but satisfactions. I absolutely have no interest to be responsible for anybody satisfaction from audio as I know that satisfaction comes from internal state of mind not from good cables, damp diaphragms or stable sapling clock. So, I do not do any kind of audio trade and my public anointment to sell my rebuild Altec 19 for $50K was made with  no other objectives then to enjoy observing how the white trashes at the Altec forums to go over themselves in hate. There was another point, the educational one, and BTW you did catch it – here is pretty much nothing to buy more or less interestingly sounding for $50K, isn’t ridicules?!

Saying all of it, if at the time when you move to US the Cetla 91 will be completed then you might perhaps visit me, listen it and if you like it then I can give you all know-how and it will be free. BTW, I am pretty sure when as I will be building it I will post all information at my site, the way how I do with all my project, so it will be quite available, including the honest and objective assessment of the final results.

Rgs, the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
08-21-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,544
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 46
Post ID: 16845
Reply to: 16836
A different type of DIY efforts.
fiogf49gjkf0d
 Romy the Cat wrote:
Yesterday I was working for a half day at the part of the house were my Altec 19 are sitting and just to keep myself entertained I set up the Altec 19 to play from my add-hog playback: Sony $30 DVD player, Yamaha C2A preamplifier and Yamaha B-2 power amp, all connected with those horrible Radio Shack interconnects. It was not good sound, not that I was looking for any kind of Sound. However, again and again I have noticed the amassing quality of the Altec 19’s bass driver – it just never stops to up in dynamic. As I told many times before this characteristic to demonstrate absolute lack of compression in bass at high volume is the ONLY one worthy quality of this entire speaker. It is not the bass is good, it is very bad in fact – the typical ported crap but the way this bas climbing up in dynamic range is truly remarkable and VERY infrequent commodity that one very seldom can get even from a good horn.
As I cleared up my fireplace room I kind of more and more like it. I did not use it since I moved in this house. I burned logs in the fireplace during the winter and store my unsorted LPs in there but it was pretty much all use that I get from this room. Now I kind of begin to like it more.

With my growth of the fireplace room appreciation I more and more think to start my Cetla 91 project, as sonically I feel the room has surprisingly good potential (a pair of Altec 19 is the only thing the room is furnished with). However I kind of straggling with myself and the some DIY efforts that it will take. I would like to see the project progressed. I have absolutely clear ideas what I would like to perform to convert Altec 19 to Cetla 91. I have all sensory tools to do the rebuild, including the heavy machinery tools in the basement. I have the know-how for everything I need, I know how evaluate the results and how administer the progress in case negative results. However, I absolutely have no desire to do it myself.

Honestly, I do not have any pleasure to do heavy DIY labor and I very much would like somebody to do it for me. It would be so great if I have some local handy audio guy in next town who has his own Altec 19 and who would like to take it further, in fact MUCH further. Then I would give to him my basement with all building and audio tools, all my know-how and my fireplace room and would let him to work on my and his speaker. On my side I would guaranty the final result and would even insignificantly pay to him for his labor. That would so great, but where to find an obedient and non-deaf audio enthusiast….
I know I have been bitching about it and in the end I will unfortunately be doing the “dirty work” myself but I so much do not want. An option is to get married and to have a freaking son. Ehhh, it would not be insignificant pay in the end and he will grow up too slow… Sucks!

The caT


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
08-23-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,544
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 47
Post ID: 16849
Reply to: 16845
Cetla 91 Light of the Altec 19++?
fiogf49gjkf0d
I was sitting in my fireplace room; eating my freshly cooked oyster mushrooms and listening a master dub of Munch and BSO take on Damnation De Faust. No matter how primitive the setup was in this room the experience was enjoyable even sound was annoying. Then I asked myself how much I willing to invest efforts for Cetla projects? The option to cut the Altec frame to get rid of that horrible 811 horn with that Altec drive do sound like a good project for somebody. I might do it one day, and $50K would be a good motivation, but it is not what I would like to do nowadays…
 
Then I asked myself what single thing that annoys me in Altec 19 the most? Unquestionably it will be MF channel. The idea to put a narrow version of CN481 horn instead of 811 horn and rid rid of that ugly Altec driver simple but they I asked myself: why as a “light” version I just put a better horn with better driver above my Altec 19 and disconnect the 19’s own MF channel. It was very simple. I screwed the Vitavox S2 driver in the back of my 180Hz multi-sells, got the Altec 19’s lead that went to 802 drivers and connected them to S2. It took 3 minutes to do and another 5 min to re-adjust Altec 19 crossover and tone balance on my preamp. The ugly sound of the Altec 19 had gone and gave a birth to very different sound. All those miserable horn echoes that Altec is so famous is not here anymore. The crunchy, barbaric HF extension of 802 drivers that so many idiots Altec-enthusiasts admire so much and consider as definition of “quality”, is gone for good. The speaker got more of less more sophisticated MF, lost everything that bad in original Altec 19’s MF and become much more sensible.
 
It does not have as good integration between the channels as Altec 19 was and it is need to be heard now from a distance. That is not a big deal for me. I am willing to keep it as it for now…

Rgs, Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
08-23-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Wojtek
Pinckney (MI), United States
Posts 159
Joined on 09-01-2005

Post #: 48
Post ID: 16850
Reply to: 16849
Ah, you're not very consistent
fiogf49gjkf0d
with your opinions. Your hateful criticue of 802 driver goes against your own recommendation of finding apropriate solution (horn and application ) for chosen driver . To me 811 is a bad, raspy sounding horn ,but quite perfect for reproduction of electric guitar tracks. I understand your sentiment toward Altec 19 apperance in your fireplace room but it would be probably easier and simpler to build Cetla from the ground up from the proceedings you get selling Altec 19. Since you exclusively listen to classical music and altec users exlusively are non classicaly oriented (at least I never met any) there is no point of proving anything. Hovever it would be of great value to people looking for sensible HE speaker less imposing and complicated than Macondo if you proceed with CETLA project  I think. That if you're in sort of humanitarian, sentimental mood and want to help out bottom feeders .Whatever happened to your MiniME project? Is it worse than Altec 19 that you have to aggravate yourself with altec dreck?
Regards, W
08-24-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,544
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 49
Post ID: 16854
Reply to: 16850
The screwdriver peojects.
fiogf49gjkf0d

 Wojtek wrote:
with your opinions. Your hateful criticue of 802 driver goes against your own recommendation of finding apropriate solution (horn and application ) for chosen driver . To me 811 is a bad, raspy sounding horn ,but quite perfect for reproduction of electric guitar tracks. I understand your sentiment toward Altec 19 apperance in your fireplace room but it would be probably easier and simpler to build Cetla from the ground up from the proceedings you get selling Altec 19. Since you exclusively listen to classical music and altec users exlusively are non classicaly oriented (at least I never met any) there is no point of proving anything. Hovever it would be of great value to people looking for sensible HE speaker less imposing and complicated than Macondo if you proceed with CETLA project  I think. That if you're in sort of humanitarian, sentimental mood and want to help out bottom feeders .Whatever happened to your MiniME project? Is it worse than Altec 19 that you have to aggravate yourself with altec dreck?

Wojtek,

Of cause I would not agree with inconsistency as you need to view my comments from a proper perspective. The Altec 19 is not my main playback and I have absolutely no objectives to have second respectfully playing installation. In fact to make it “respectfully playing” would take much more efforts then I am willing to spend. My currant approach in audio allows to me to be involved in any audio project where I do not need more tools then a screwdriver. That is literally the measurement of the efforts that I am willing to invest. The people who use Altec with 802 as their own playback and particularly who are wiling to play classical repertoire (as you very accurately noted) would need much more then screwdriver efforts and it is not what I do nowadays, without somebody pays me $50K… :-)

The “proper perspective” that I mentioned is the ultimate objective that I have for my Altec 19. The recent resurrection of my interest to Altec or Cetla coming from the fact that my local audio friends temporary furnished me with components that converted my fireplace room into Opera Room:

http://www.goodsoundclub.com/Forums/ShowPost.aspx?postID=14568

So, the Altec, or Cetla or whatever need to be good enough to play video – very limited and very restricted set of audio requirements.  My experiment with substitute the 802 with S2 was just a band-aid to eliminate some announce from Altec MF, the announce that does not exhibit itself what I play video, so it is very possible that for video I will use even the stock Altec 19 as the requirement is very low in there. I will observe that subject further but most likely in my Opera Room thread.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
08-24-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,544
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 50
Post ID: 16855
Reply to: 16850
It is all about room decore..
fiogf49gjkf0d
 Wojtek wrote:
I understand your sentiment toward Altec 19 apperance in your fireplace room …
Yes, this is exactly the problem – I like Altec 19 appearance and in particular I like how it looks in THIS room. In fact the appearance if mint condition of Altec 19 is the only reason why I bought Altec from a friend of mine who did not want them. If I was more thoughtful I would point the room in more mahogany like color… but the remodeling my fireplace room never was stated since I move to this house, in fact, I hardly used this room at all beside storing none-sorted LPs…

FirePlaceRoom_Altec19.JPG

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
09-05-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,544
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 51
Post ID: 16949
Reply to: 13135
Romy the Cat as a “great” speaker designer.
fiogf49gjkf0d

As I have finished remodeling my new Opera room:

 http://www.GoodSoundClub.com/TreeItem.aspx?PostID=16948

…I modified my Altec 19. The one ordinal that I had was truly phenomenal item. I went to recue what was done in there I was very impressed. The former owner from Florida has reportedly died already but the way how he kept the speaker was truly exemplary.  Everything inside is original and new as it was produced just last week. The new external foam, the new grills, the drivers as they were made just last night. Wonderful! I rotated the bass drivers (a good for suspension sagging) and realized the he put a very thick layer of leather (½ inch) between the bass driver and enclosure. I got rid of the MF driver, put my 18-cell with S2 driver in place driving it from the very same Altec 19 crossover, effectively converting the Altec 19 to Altec 21S. The sound of CD was very nice if I hear it from another room.

Then I decided that I am too expressed and too sophisticated and that I can do much better then the 35 years old stupid crossover. So, I made two second order 500Hz crossovers for 416 driver and S2 with metal cone. As I connected my new Altec 21S with my own crossovers, with use the original one  the sound turn out to be so disgusting that it shocked my “sophistication” to its core. I can not even begin to describe how bad it was and I am very glad that no one witnessed that shame. In the best it sounded like I just eaten a kilogram of rusty nails and then drunk a gallon of Muriatic acid. If somebody tried to apply Muriatic  acid to metal then you know it feels (smells). I was sitting in front of the speakers and was thinking what the fucking idiot I am. I literally was about to vomit not only because the Sound but also because I did it with my own hands (mind).

Well, the result I got, perhaps need to have further working and I am sure that if I go all the way to the bottom of it then I would find a useful combination, but I was poisoned by me “engineering” that I trashed my own crossover, put back the original Altec and said to myself: “You Moron, do not fucking touch it anymore.”  The only thing that comforts me in that whole story is that the narratives of my big “design adventure” is my secret and no one knows about it.

Rgs, Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
09-12-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,544
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 52
Post ID: 16995
Reply to: 16949
How to get better lower MF from Altec 21S …
fiogf49gjkf0d

Listening my Altec 21S, even for movies, I do detect that it has some kind of lower MF problem, somewhere within 500-2000Hz. Here is the dilemma, what to do with it in 2–way speaker? Pretty much nothing… Since I use the original Altec 19 crossover my crossover has MF adjustment but Altec adjustment   is within next octave and sonically as I move Altec own EQ then it very horribly reflects sound. I prefer to keep the MF Altec 19 adjustment at zero.

Here is two options that I can see if I willing to deal with it: 1) to drop the MF crossover point from the Altec’s 1250Hz to let say 500Hz, thankfully the 180Hz multi-sell would allow to do so 2) introduction another channel between tweeter and woofer. Both of the ways would do and I “might” try it.

What I wonder if another channels goes what driver it might be. It is not that I am in search mode for driver. I would like to spend no efforts on it and at this point my interest is purely theoretical. For sure my JBL 2490 would be a great candidate for it:

http://www.goodsoundclub.com/Forums/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=15335

I have a pair of them, new sitting in the boxes. The problem is that when I got them I was thinking to use them with my 18-sell 180Hz horn. Now the multi-sell is busy with Vitavox S2 and I have no plans to change MF. So, to engage the JBL 2490 it would need another lower MF horn with 3” entry. I do not have such a horn. If somebody knows any ready to go 3”-entry horn of any profile with 150Hz-180Hz exit then I might try it. I would not custom design and order such a horn as I would like to have the Altec 91 project to go easy and cheap.

To drop the MF crossover point would not be a big deal and I need to try it another day…. Still, the huge amount of empty space above multi-sell with Vitavox S2 drives me nuts… and called to be filled…

NewVidioRoom3WithAltec21s.JPG

The Cat




"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
10-10-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,544
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 53
Post ID: 17128
Reply to: 16995
I am a pain in ass.
fiogf49gjkf0d
It is over 2 weeks as the crossover parts for my Altec 21S modification are sitting in my house. It would be 30 min fix but I still did not do it – juts lazy. I want for how to keep the Altec low path crossover but I the crossover for MF I would like to put my own. Nothing exotic – 2 order around 500Hz. I will keep the woofer and MF overlap over one octave – I see no problem with it, well I see the problem since it is not time-aligned but in the speakers of limited demands (means for video applications) I feel it is perfectly acceptable.

I took 7mH air-core coil for filter of 19ga. I did not pay more for lower DCR coil as the coil in high path second order is not in series with signal, so the DCR is not so critical. For caps I took two pairs of 33mF/75V wet tantalum caps. They are not regular tantalum but wet and from my experiments during the Rohde & Schwarz modification I remember that I was not able to find anything better sounding. Of cause the polarized wet tantalum caps will not work properly in AC-only circuit, so I will bias them up with a few DC volts. I would need to attenuate the S2 driver, I guess for a few dBs and I still do not know how to do it properly.

The biggest problem with my Altec 21S is not to do the things but to properly delegate efforts to the level of result I expect. I think it think about my Altec 21S as it is Macondo and try to devise the ides to make it better. But in reality Altec 21S are way speakers for video room, the setup that has very limited requirements.

A friend of my who did not hear my Altec 21S asked me how would I estimate the Altec 21S sound on the scale of 10 if sound of Macondo to be at level 10.  I said that as now Altec 21S would do 3 and I do not know if after all modification if will ever do higher than 4. It is not that it does not sound well, it is perfectly listenable, particularly since I put the S2 in there and bogie to get the sound that I use to. Still, being the “second system” I can’t defeat my hate of second systems generally and I need to make find encouragement improve something further in my Altec 21S.

Rgs, Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
10-10-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Markus
Posts 68
Joined on 03-07-2007

Post #: 54
Post ID: 17129
Reply to: 17128
Not different enough
fiogf49gjkf0d
Personally, if I wanted to get a 2nd system, I wouldn't want a less good version of the main system. If they both share an approach to audio, you'll always hear the 3- or 4-ness when you are used to the same thing in 10.

I'd try to be as different as possible in the 2nd system, say Genelec 8260A or something in that genre. Or perhaps, since you want your 2nd system for opera, I'd look at what monitors are used in opera production.
10-10-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,544
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 55
Post ID: 17130
Reply to: 17129
More than enough for video
fiogf49gjkf0d
 Markus wrote:
Personally, if I wanted to get a 2nd system, I wouldn't want a less good version of the main system. If they both share an approach to audio, you'll always hear the 3- or 4-ness when you are used to the same thing in 10.

I'd try to be as different as possible in the 2nd system, say Genelec 8260A or something in that genre. Or perhaps, since you want your 2nd system for opera, I'd look at what monitors are used in opera production.
Markus, this is very much not how I think. In my view the 2nd system shall not be different then main system. All those convections about 2nd system as system of different type, or topology or type of sound I find very bogus. In fact it is my strong conviction that if person has foolishness to setup second system (I still am a strong opponent of it) then it shell be in sonic terms a more or less replica of main system. I wish I was able to make the Altec 21S to sound like Macondo. Friends of mine advised me to put the projector into my main listening room and use the full Macondo Sound. Firstly the main listing room is light room (high lighting) and I do not want to looks it light status. Second I do not feel that video need any more sophisticated sound then what Altec 21S can do, In fact if it was even 10% of the Altec 21S  does then it would be else very much enough for video.

Rgs, Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
10-10-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,544
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 56
Post ID: 17131
Reply to: 17130
My audio desire hirts.
fiogf49gjkf0d
As wonderful my Altec 21S plays video and pop crap as much it absolutely impotent to play any classical repertoire. In fat when I estimated it as 3 on the scale of Macondo 10 I meant the video concert and operas that I play on it. With pure audio with more or less demanding material it sinks to the bottom of the barrel.   I played today on the Altec 21S the Adagio form Mahler 6 – probably the most beautiful music Mahler ever composed and Altec 21S just destroyed it to level that it was a pain to listen. I do not need to make those experiments as it kills my libido to entire audio…

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
10-18-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,544
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 57
Post ID: 17181
Reply to: 17131
After all!!!
fiogf49gjkf0d
 Romy the Cat wrote:
As wonderful my Altec 21S plays video and pop crap as much it absolutely impotent to play any classical repertoire. In fat when I estimated it as 3 on the scale of Macondo 10 I meant the video concert and operas that I play on it. With pure audio with more or less demanding material it sinks to the bottom of the barrel.   I played today on the Altec 21S the Adagio form Mahler 6 – probably the most beautiful music Mahler ever composed and Altec 21S just destroyed it to level that it was a pain to listen. I do not need to make those experiments as it kills my libido to entire audio…

I kind of scratching my head and was wondering why my Altec 21S sound so bad with music and sound so good with films. Even playing the DVD/BlueRay with concerts it sound fine but if I play the same from CD it sounded like crap. For sure I blamed the Altec 21S but it is kind odd as the Vitavox with Altec 416 shell give MUCH better result then it is with music. I did my own crossover twice and twice it was very bad with idiotic thin sound. I am it would win the “Best sound at some kind of Show” but in my home I was not acceptable.

Well, a few days ago my local audio guy visited me, the one that lent me Oppo player that I use for the video room. Inspecting the player he informed me that the player was configured to play 7.1 channels. I had no idea about it and I never even went to the played setup. He reset some configuration on the Oppe player and what the deference it was! What do you know, not my Altec 21S plays very fine not only movies but also regular music. As sound gets louder it does not get thinner and it does sound MUCH different now. I did not invest any time to tune it but as is it has very nice result.
 
The caT


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
10-19-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
miab
Canada
Posts 46
Joined on 02-07-2008

Post #: 58
Post ID: 17185
Reply to: 17181
Oppo as transport
fiogf49gjkf0d
I wonder if the inappropriate settings for 2 channel audio somehow might have affected your experiments with it as a transport in your main audio only system? I was curious about your experiment as I do need a transport to play the odd cd. One thing to keep in mind though. It is my understanding that DVD players used as transport do sometimes (or almost always according to a friend of mine) run them at 48kHz. I'm not saying the OPPO does that but keep an eye out for it.
10-19-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,544
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 59
Post ID: 17187
Reply to: 17185
Very reasonable consern
fiogf49gjkf0d
 miab wrote:
I wonder if the inappropriate settings for 2 channel audio somehow might have affected your experiments with it as a transport in your main audio only system?

It was exactly what I was thinking and was planning to repeat the experiment again. I will post the findings in the Oppo thread.


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
06-16-2015 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,544
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 60
Post ID: 21714
Reply to: 13135
Update of Cetla 91
fiogf49gjkf0d

ThomasAndCetla91.jpg




"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
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