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  »  New  Recording options: Pacific Microsonics vs. Lavry Gold...  Pacific Microsonics vs. Lavry Gold in D/A mode....  Didital Things  Forum     24  218758  09-27-2007
  »  New  The BSO and Digital Music...  Around the BSO recording practice....  Didital Things  Forum     44  265399  12-02-2008
  »  New  DA architecture: True Multibit vs. anything else...  If it might…....  Didital Things  Forum     17  144701  12-09-2007
  »  New  The optimum Sampling Rate for bass...  Lynx can handle up to 200.000Khz...  Didital Things  Forum     3  32842  02-19-2008
  »  New  Analog Transfer: the first draft...  What I am after in this test....  Didital Things  Forum     19  126837  04-11-2006
  »  New  Weiss Engineering DAC202..  Attenuation...  Didital Things  Forum     5  40230  06-21-2010
  »  New  Pacific Microsonics Model Two: What Platform, Software ..  XLR to RCA adaptor. Watch out...  Didital Things  Forum     1  21285  03-17-2011
  »  New  Berkeley Audio Design's Alfa Reference DAC...  Well, it fits the pattern....  Didital Things  Forum     4  32102  09-02-2014
07-04-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,734
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 41
Post ID: 10985
Reply to: 10978
The after 18dB.
fiogf49gjkf0d
Mani,

actually I do have a “click” from speakers at 18dB, I do not remember I had it at Model One. I am sure they se the sane circuit; perhaps my current Model Two has more DC on contacts that makes the click auditable. If so, they then they do apparently engage after 18dB some kind or new gain circuit. I agree that in this case to keep it at 18dB would make sense. If you find any information what they turn on after 18dB then let me know.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
07-05-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,734
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 42
Post ID: 10988
Reply to: 10628
Pacific Microsonics as the only DAC in a system?
fiogf49gjkf0d
Mani,
 
a month or so ago you posted a question at this site asking how possible to use Pacific as the ONLY DAC in playback. Sine at that time you deal with Pacific was pending we decided to remove the post in order do not create unnecessary agitations. Your joinery with Pacific re-ignited my interest to the DAC portion of Pacific processor and now, after a round of different experiments and listening evaluations I can say that you were right with the idea: Pacific might be quite effectively used as the only DAC.

I never paid too much attention to the Pacific’s DAC but for the last couple week I run it all time and I find it very much usable. I find it very covenant to run analog source and then be able to switch the source signal passing across Pacific A/D-D/A where both D/A and DAW run from the same Pacific’s A/D clock. In fact it is so convenient that I asked myself if it worth for me to run Pacific from my Preamp outputs and just save to my DAW some of my most precious LPs and Tapes.

Anyhow, it looks that after my recent leanings about the way to use the Pacific Microsonics DAC section it turn out to be very much noble DAC to use. I do not get rid of my reference 16Bit DAC (Bidat) and my reference 88/24 DAC (Lavry Gold++) but if someone would do it then I recognize it reasonable as Pacific do deliver very serious quality that is “good enough” to have Pacific as the only DAC. It is funny that after a couple of years of use Pacific I “discovered” a great DAC…that has been living in my home for a while.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
07-13-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
manisandher
London
Posts 157
Joined on 09-05-2008

Post #: 43
Post ID: 11047
Reply to: 10988
How accurate is the ADC/DAC?
fiogf49gjkf0d
 Romy the Cat wrote:
I find it very covenant to run analog source and then be able to switch the source signal passing across Pacific A/D-D/A where both D/A and DAW run from the same Pacific’s A/D clock. In fact it is so convenient that I asked myself if it worth for me to run Pacific from my Preamp outputs and just save to my DAW some of my most precious LPs and Tapes.
Romy,

Have you tried this yet? If so, in percentage terms, how close do you think the digitized signal is to the original analog signal? (This is something that I'm hoping to try myself at some point, but I don't have a good analog source right now.)

Mani.
07-13-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,734
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 44
Post ID: 11050
Reply to: 11047
One AD-DAW-DA vs. another AD-DAW-DA
fiogf49gjkf0d

 manisandher wrote:

Have you tried this yet? If so, in percentage terms, how close do you think the digitized signal is to the original analog signal? (This is something that I'm hoping to try myself at some point, but I don't have a good analog source right now.)

Nope, I did not try AD any better source then FM with Pacific. I did try it with Lavry Gold, the result was so-so but I knew that I did it very badly and I was not going for “best” results. I need to rewire everything to do it “properly” and it is not very inconvenient for me. Also, I do not have a lot of motivation to convert LP or Tape to high-resolution files. If I have an AD permanently plugged into one of the outputs of my preamp, as I proposed above then it might be a game changer…

Also, there was recently an interesting observation that I am not sure how to interpret. When I had Lavry Gold AD and Lavry Gold DA plays into each other and compared the sound of my FM from SU-1X direct with the sound of AD-DAW-DA chain then I heard absolutely no difference. With replacing the Lavry Gold AD-DAW-DA to Pacific AD-DAW-DA I did observe a minor difference, not improvement of courses…

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
08-31-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
manisandher
London
Posts 157
Joined on 09-05-2008

Post #: 45
Post ID: 11598
Reply to: 11050
Model Two clock slightly off
fiogf49gjkf0d
Related to posts on other threads, I recall noting that the Model Two's clock frequency is slightly off 44.1 KHz.

With the Model Two in Master mode, the Weiss AFI1 reads the clock frequency as something like 44.08 KHz (I'm not in the UK right now, but will check the exact freq. when I get back). However, when the Model Two is switched to 48KHz, the AFI1 reads the clock frequency as exactly 48.00 KHz.

Romy, perhaps your Model Two exibits the same behavioiur? If so, could this 0.05% difference account for the anomalies that you're hearing between the Model Two and Lavry? (Of course, this should only be the case when the Model Two is in Master mode.)

To test this, you may want to record and compare a piece at both 44.1 (x1/x2) and 48 (X1/X2). I know the latter will cause you a lot of pain, but keep reminding yourself that it's in the pursuit of knowledge, and you should pull through OK... [do you allow smilies on this site?]

Mani.
08-31-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,734
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 46
Post ID: 11602
Reply to: 11598
The digital queuing? Might be...
fiogf49gjkf0d
 manisandher wrote:
Related to posts on other threads, I recall noting that the Model Two's clock frequency is slightly off 44.1 KHz.

With the Model Two in Master mode, the Weiss AFI1 reads the clock frequency as something like 44.08 KHz (I'm not in the UK right now, but will check the exact freq. when I get back). However, when the Model Two is switched to 48KHz, the AFI1 reads the clock frequency as exactly 48.00 KHz.

Romy, perhaps your Model Two exibits the same behavioiur? If so, could this 0.05% difference account for the anomalies that you're hearing between the Model Two and Lavry? (Of course, this should only be the case when the Model Two is in Master mode.)

To test this, you may want to record and compare a piece at both 44.1 (x1/x2) and 48 (X1/X2). I know the latter will cause you a lot of pain, but keep reminding yourself that it's in the pursuit of knowledge, and you should pull through OK... [do you allow smilies on this site?]

Mani, it is not my case. Lynx card read the external clock with precision of 3 digits after the dot. For 88.2K it reads 88.195 and for 44.1 it reads…. I do not remember now but it very-very close.  I did not try to engage the 48x clock. Well, do play sometimes the 24/96 and 24/48 files but they were not recorded by myself and I never used the 48x for A/D. So what I play only I anyhow mostly use my Lavry Gold.

BTW, of you idea is right then there is a remote possibility that the clock of Lavry Gold is off that this gives some “pitch” difference between the DACs.  There is no easy ways I know to take the Larvy 924 clock out to read it.

The caT


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
09-27-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,734
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 47
Post ID: 11844
Reply to: 10628
Pacific Model 2 Problem and better practice
fiogf49gjkf0d
It is not a problem I guess if used it as it is it was intended – as a mastering processor but as a A/D, D/D, Reference Master Clock processor that work with any sampling rates and resolutions it is it kind of a bit pain in ass.  I do have a number of my custom configurations preset fore all files that I pay or willing to record. However, I need to open a file to see what sampling rates and resolutions is. Then I need to select a right configuration on Pacific.  If I switch from 2X to 4X then Pacific runs in dual-wire mode, so I need go to Lynx mixer and to set the dual-wire mode in the card.  Then I need to restart the file if it was playing as Wavelab would still hold the reference to the OLD external reference cloak. So, if I willing to record one piece of concert at 44/24 and another at 176/24 then it would take a few minutes to reconfigure everything.   It would be easier if Wavelab would alow multiple applications to run the same time then I would be able to play/record 176 from Pacific from Lynx’s 1-2 and 3-4 lines in dual-wire mode and 44 from Lavry Gold of Lynx’s line 5-6. I might do it in fact now (and I did) but then I need to run Wavelab and SoundForge. If I play in this configuration then I need to have one application per time and all that I need to do is to flip the Wavelab’s mixer dual-wire mode selector. I know, for somebody who does not play with all of it is sounds like Hebrew… but like anything else…

OK, what is the problem in that? The problem is that I detect that if I record in 44/24 or 88/24 in single-wire mode but the second wire is connected from Lynx to Pacific (and the line is muted by Lynx mixer) then I do have worsening of sound quality. The sound auditable improves when I plug out the second, not used line. So, effectively if I willing to move from dual-wire mode to a single -wire mode then to do it right I need to plug and un plug the second cable not only just flip the Pacific mode. I find it very uncomfortable. I need to talk about it with somebody and I recognize is a bug.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
09-28-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
manisandher
London
Posts 157
Joined on 09-05-2008

Post #: 48
Post ID: 11847
Reply to: 11844
Redundant dual-wire cable
fiogf49gjkf0d
 Romy the Cat wrote:
The problem is that I detect that if I record in 44/24 or 88/24 in single-wire mode but the second wire is connected from Lynx to Pacific (and the line is muted by Lynx mixer) then I do have worsening of sound quality. The sound auditable improves when I plug out the second, not used line.

This is very interesting and something that I have not noticed. Because I cannot double the clock frequency going into the Weiss AFI1, I have tended to ignore playing/recording 4fs files. But, I've kept the second AES/EBU wire attached nevertheless... because I didn't think it could make any difference.

I will try unplugging it and determine whether or not I can hear a difference too.

Mani.

PS. Seems my Hebrew isn't too bad.
09-28-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,734
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 49
Post ID: 11849
Reply to: 11847
Do an experiment.
fiogf49gjkf0d

 manisandher wrote:
This is very interesting and something that I have not noticed. Because I cannot double the clock frequency going into the Weiss AFI1, I have tended to ignore playing/recording 4fs files. But, I've kept the second AES/EBU wire attached nevertheless... because I didn't think it could make any difference.

I will try unplugging it and determine whether or not I can hear a difference too.

Well, frankly I do not truly understand what that Weiss AFI1 does. I think this devise is bogus by a concept. Here is how I interested it: If you take Firewire of USB out of your PC then the other side of Firewire of USB shell be right in DAC, right next to the master clock on the DAC side. If your Firewire of USB devise have some kind of proxy box, with own PS and own clock, then I think it defeats all purpose.  I do not insists that I am right – I just think it is architecturally does not look kosher to me. You insist that Pacific shall run as master clock referent, OK, but the referent to what? To Weiss AFI1, right? Then you have a Firewire link to PC but Firewire does not care clock data – it is asynchronous.  So, my question would be – what manages the clock of your playing/recording software? Then you play/records then can you do it right to your Weiss AFI1 device? Will, the change of the Pacific clock trigger the automatic reset the sampling rate of your playing/recording software. The most important: when you sent from Pacific reference clock of 88K but play a file of 44K, outputting the stream to a third audio devise, then will you have the half-speed effect? If you do not have the same effect as reel tape of 15ips played at 9ips then your software is not truly slaved by Pacific/ AFI1 chain.

Anyhow, to mimic the problem that I describe do the following:

1)      Play a good analog source to line A of your preamp
2)      One of the outputs send to Pacific A/D
3)      Set Pacific  in 176/24  mode, dual-wire
4)      Send signal out of Pacific D/A to line B of your preamp
5)      Set the Pacific output (of whatever menace you have) to be identical volume to line A of your preamp
6)      Flipping  between the line A  and B of your preamp confirm that you have identical sound (or note whatever delta it would be)
7)      Now switch the Pacific into 44/24 mode, single-wire mode, without touching anything else.
8)      Note that this time that the output from line B of your preamp (across Pacific) will be slightly louder (let say 2dB, but I did not measured)
9)      Noted that the output from line B of your preamp (across Pacific) will be a bit brighter and flatter then the line A of your preamp. It will be no death of imaging and sound would be almost broken up – almost like from a computer voice.
10)   Now, unplug the second-wire and note the difference.  In my case the louder 2dB will be gone and the sound will be identical to what was in paragraph # 6 above. 

During this experiment the minor differences between 44 and 176, if you have any,  shall be discarded as the amplitude of the problem I descried above is much higher then the dealt between  44 and 176

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
09-28-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
manisandher
London
Posts 157
Joined on 09-05-2008

Post #: 50
Post ID: 11854
Reply to: 11849
Can software be slaved to firewire device?
fiogf49gjkf0d
 Romy the Cat wrote:
If you do not have the same effect as reel tape of 15ips played at 9ips then your software is not truly slaved by Pacific/ AFI1 chain.
Yes, I totally agree.

And I can indeed replicate this effect... but only with my RME FF800 and not with my Weiss AFI1.

With the FF800 (slaved to the Pacific), changing the Pacific's wordclock does indeed change the speed of any audio/video being played. (Going further, using the FF800's internal Direct Digital Synthesizer (DDS) clock, I have 'total' control of the speed of audio/video.)

This suggests to me that software can indeed be slaved to a firewire device.

However, I cannot replicate this effect with the Weiss AFI1. Here, the player/recorder software seems to dictate the frequency. If the frequency down the chain (with the AFI1 or Pacific as Master) is different to that of the software, then there is simply no sound produced.

 Romy the Cat wrote:
Anyhow, to mimic the problem that I describe do the following:
I will try this, but will need to wait a few weeks until I move into my new house and have my turntable set up.

For now, I have tried to hear a difference in the sound by simply unplugging the second AES/EBU cable whilst listening to a 44.1/88.2 file in single-wire mode. I'm not sure how closely this replicates step #10 of your procedure, but I cannot hear a difference (in either level or sound quality) with the second cable in or out...

Have I totally misunderstood the issue here?

Mani.
09-28-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,734
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 51
Post ID: 11855
Reply to: 11854
Ok, this time I was a Moron.
fiogf49gjkf0d

 manisandher wrote:
And I can indeed replicate this effect... but only with my RME FF800 and not with my Weiss AFI1.

With the FF800 (slaved to the Pacific), changing the Pacific's wordclock does indeed change the speed of any audio/video being played. (Going further, using the FF800's internal Direct Digital Synthesizer (DDS) clock, I have 'total' control of the speed of audio/video.)

This suggests to me that software can indeed be slaved to a firewire device.

However, I cannot replicate this effect with the Weiss AFI1. Here, the player/recorder software seems to dictate the frequency. If the frequency down the chain (with the AFI1 or Pacific as Master) is different to that of the software, then there is simply no sound produced.

Interesting. If so then I would say that Weiss AFI1 defeat the purpose of running the Pacific as Master Clock. What would be even more interesting to see if the sonic benefits of having Pacific as Master will manifest itself while Weiss screw up the software slaving. It is possible that despise the AFI1 does not do slaving-transparency but it still would sound very reasonable. Why knows…

 manisandher wrote:
For now, I have tried to hear a difference in the sound by simply unplugging the second AES/EBU cable whilst listening to a 44.1/88.2 file in single-wire mode. I'm not sure how closely this replicates step #10 of your procedure, but I cannot hear a difference (in either level or sound quality) with the second cable in or out... Have I totally misunderstood the issue here?

Actually you did not misunderstand the issue the issue but it turned out that I was an idiot. As soon I got your email I decided to do it again. This time I very much as you do not hear any difference. I did it very many times and there was no difference. I absolutely remember as I heard a huge worsening of sound as soon I plug the second digital line in. Upon the further experiments I learned that this problem manifest itself ONLY if I do not mute this second digital line on my Lynx mixer. I was under impression that switching the Lynx and Pacific in single-wire mode shall make them doing not even feel the second line, not it is not how it works. Anyhow, explicitly muting the second line via the Lynx mixer addresses all problems. I thought I did it but I did not realize that it was a very critical step. I wish the Pacific would be smarter with not-used line rejection and I wish the Lynx mixer lines would be more isolated.

Anyhow, some I figure out how to use it the Pacific is rehabilitated, in fact it become a relatively comfy multi-format processor. I just need to find for it a location what I would be sit higher in my rack as it is troublesome to  bend my body to read it display and to push the button with my big toe finger.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
09-29-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,734
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 52
Post ID: 11861
Reply to: 10628
About the self-inflicted myth of clock synchronization.
fiogf49gjkf0d

Whoever follows the Pacific Microsonics  threads, or whoever use Pacific know that both Models one and two have an interesting idiosyncrasy: at maximum sampling rate, when Pacific runs in dual-wire mode, the clock runs at half speed. It does not make since to have A/D running at 176K but clock at 88K. So, it would be responsible to ask: what is the purpose to slave DAW if the processor does not care the right sampling reference?

I was under this presumption for a couple year but last might I suddenly come to me and I concluders that it does not matter. Let me to explain my rational. Be advised that I have no specific knowledge in the field or consulted with knowledgeable people, this is just my take that is based strictly upon common sense, at least the way how I understand the common sense.

There are two arguments that I would like to bring up:

1)  Pacific Microsonics was designed and built by very knowledgeable people who very much knew what they did. Furthermore Pacific was made in “no expense spare mode”, so it is not such a thing the some functionality was not implemented because they wanted to keep it cheaper. So, if Pacific teal decided to output a half-speed clock at in double-wire mode then they feel that it was how it needs to be done.

2)  What is double-wire mode? It is what one wire cares a half sampling rate and another wire cares another half. The double-wire is not stereo and not dual mono.  In stereo we have two different signals that fluctuate by own rules cared in two wire. In dual-wire AES/EBU each wire cares a half of the very same signal and a half of sampling frequency. In dual-wire digital both wires are running from the very same clock and if the signal in dual-wire divided not identically (I do not know if it is possible) then the fluctuation clock marks across the wires are absolutely identically as there is just one clock for both wires. So, what is the clock slaving? It is some king PLL driven phase-locking of one clock to another clock.  The key in here is to get reference and to trace the rate of change. Since the master clock is only one for both wires then the slave clock might look for the sampling marks in any of the wires ion case it reads samples from AES/EBU. In case the clock reference delivered to slave clock by own 75-ohm BNC word clock cable this cable can care ANY sampling frequency as long phase-wise it reflects the masterclock.

I think this is why Pacific Microsonics  Model 2 does not output 176K clock and Model 1 does not output 88K clock. In fact I do not think that Model 2 even has 176K clock and Model 1 has 88K clock. They most likely have 44K and 48K (1X) clocks and multipliers. So, it is very possible that my concern about the half/clocking in dual-wire mode with Pacific was just my own self-inflicted worry.

The caT


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
09-29-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,734
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 53
Post ID: 11864
Reply to: 11861
About contra-productiveness of stupid guessing.
fiogf49gjkf0d
 Romy the Cat wrote:
Whoever follows the Pacific Microsonics  threads, or whoever use Pacific know that both Models one and two have an interesting idiosyncrasy: at maximum sampling rate, when Pacific runs in dual-wire mode, the clock runs at half speed. It does not make since to have A/D running at 176K but clock at 88K. So, it would be responsible to ask: what is the purpose to slave DAW if the processor does not care the right sampling reference?

I was under this presumption for a couple year but last might I suddenly come to me and I concluders that it does not matter. Let me to explain my rational. Be advised that I have no specific knowledge in the field or consulted with knowledgeable people, this is just my take that is based strictly upon common sense, at least the way how I understand the common sense.

There are two arguments that I would like to bring up:

1)  Pacific Microsonics was designed and built by very knowledgeable people who very much knew what they did. Furthermore Pacific was made in “no expense spare mode”, so it is not such a thing the some functionality was not implemented because they wanted to keep it cheaper. So, if Pacific teal decided to output a half-speed clock at in double-wire mode then they feel that it was how it needs to be done.

2)  What is double-wire mode? It is what one wire cares a half sampling rate and another wire cares another half. The double-wire is not stereo and not dual mono.  In stereo we have two different signals that fluctuate by own rules cared in two wire. In dual-wire AES/EBU each wire cares a half of the very same signal and a half of sampling frequency. In dual-wire digital both wires are running from the very same clock and if the signal in dual-wire divided not identically (I do not know if it is possible) then the fluctuation clock marks across the wires are absolutely identically as there is just one clock for both wires. So, what is the clock slaving? It is some king PLL driven phase-locking of one clock to another clock.  The key in here is to get reference and to trace the rate of change. Since the master clock is only one for both wires then the slave clock might look for the sampling marks in any of the wires ion case it reads samples from AES/EBU. In case the clock reference delivered to slave clock by own 75-ohm BNC word clock cable this cable can care ANY sampling frequency as long phase-wise it reflects the masterclock.

I think this is why Pacific Microsonics  Model 2 does not output 176K clock and Model 1 does not output 88K clock. In fact I do not think that Model 2 even has 176K clock and Model 1 has 88K clock. They most likely have 44K and 48K (1X) clocks and multipliers. So, it is very possible that my concern about the half/clocking in dual-wire mode with Pacific was just my own self-inflicted worry.

I was expanded by a person why know the subject that my speculations above were partially wrong. It turned out that it is a part of dual-wire mode specification that the word-clock rate must be doubled as soon devise is witched into dual-wire inputs. So, Lynx has internal dabbler that activated as soon dual-wire inputs activated. So, when Pacific outputs in dual-wire configuration a half of the sampling speed then is done in accordance to the dual-wire specification. All bets are off.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
09-29-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
manisandher
London
Posts 157
Joined on 09-05-2008

Post #: 54
Post ID: 11865
Reply to: 11864
Weiss AFI1 does not conform to dual-wire standard
fiogf49gjkf0d
 Romy the Cat wrote:
Lynx has internal dabbler that activated as soon dual-wire inputs activated. So, when Pacific outputs in dual-wire configuration a half of the sampling speed then is done in accordance to the dual-wire specification.

This makes a lot of sense. (Incidentally, my Esoteric D70 in dual-wire mode does exactly the same as the Pacific.)

But I'm really cheesed off that my Weiss AFI1 does not conform with the dual-wire standard. It should be doubling the clock frequency, as the Lynx does. I will insist that Daniel Weiss gives me an explanation of why it doesn't... and what he is going to do about it.

Mani.
09-29-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,734
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 55
Post ID: 11866
Reply to: 11865
The clock doubler.
fiogf49gjkf0d
I do not know what to say. Daniel is very knowledgeable person and it is the dual-wire specification (as I was told today) then I would doubt that Mr. Weiss would not comply with it. It is possible that it does it, you might not know how to activate it or it defeated on your unit by some kind of hardware switch. Or perhaps it does it but you just do not know it. I never had that des and I do not know how you monitor the finale clock rate, since the AFI1 does not transmit the clock back to the recorder (Which sounds like a big deal to me). Anyhow, I am sure Daniel would help you. Here is how it looks on Lynx:

LynxMixer.JPG

BTW, I kind of like the idea that the ref word-clock has no doublers. It would be nice if the rest equipment would know about it. In what you said I think



"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
09-29-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
manisandher
London
Posts 157
Joined on 09-05-2008

Post #: 56
Post ID: 11867
Reply to: 11866
Sorry, no doubler in Weiss
fiogf49gjkf0d
 Romy the Cat wrote:
It is possible that it does it, you might not know how to activate it or it defeated on your unit by some kind of hardware switch. Or perhaps it does it but you just do not know it.


No, it definitely does NOT do it.

 Romy the Cat wrote:
Anyhow, I am sure Daniel would help you.

Daniel was very responsive when I first flagged this issue with him, pretty much as soon as I took receipt of the AFI1. However, he has been a lot less responsive lately. I'm sure he's very busy... but then again, aren't we all?

The last I heard from him, he was looking into how to get the clock frequency doubled, maybe by an external device (I think).

Mani.


09-29-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
manisandher
London
Posts 157
Joined on 09-05-2008

Post #: 57
Post ID: 11868
Reply to: 11867
AES3-2003 specs
fiogf49gjkf0d
Well, having accused Daniel of being less responsive than before, he replies to an email I sent him in lightning fast time!

As well as assuring me that he is on the case, he also attached the AES3-2003 specs. It seems there are NO specs for the wordclock!

I think the lesson here is that the dual-wire interface manufacturers (Lynx, RME, Weiss, etc), in the light of these specs (or lack of), should design their equipment to be as flexible as possible...

Mani.
09-29-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,734
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 58
Post ID: 11869
Reply to: 11867
A man on clock with a clock
fiogf49gjkf0d
 manisandher wrote:
The last I heard from him, he was looking into how to get the clock frequency doubled, maybe by an external device (I think).
I do not like this idea. The frequency doublers are a very simple but it would need PS  and some kind box and acquisition circuitry… in Mr. Weiss hands it would be easy a $1K devise. It would not mention that by flipping the mode on Pacific you will be forced to turn on/off the bypass on the doubler. It does not sound elegant. Can the AFI1 slave clock from AES/EBU line? If I were forced to buy one more box for $1K then it would be probably an external atomic reference clock and then I would run both of my A/D and DAW from there. 
 
The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
09-29-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,734
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 59
Post ID: 11870
Reply to: 11868
I do not belive that there was NO specs for the wordclock!
fiogf49gjkf0d
I do not think that dual-wire interface manufacturers design their equipment in that way they wish. Such a standard had to exist, why is such case Pacific people assumed that another side in 4x speed would doubles the clock in dual-wire mode. The Aurora Converter does very same as Pacific does – it send ½ of clock in dual-wire mode. Daniel might be right about the AES3-2003 but in 2003 the whole dual-wire format was long absolute. The dual-wire was in use in the times what the processors were very slow and the AES/EBU were much different. In the end of 90s it was not a problem anymore and single AES/EBU in single-wire could handle up to 196K. So, I did not see the AES3-2003 but I might presume that in 2003 it was not even described. BTW, if you consult the Pacific guys then they might do some kind of tweak to output the whole sampling rate.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
10-01-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,734
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 60
Post ID: 11883
Reply to: 10628
...another thing that I ‘hate’ about Pacific…
fiogf49gjkf0d
.... is that it is so freaking big! I kind of unsuccessfully trying to find a place for it in my rack and it is difficult. The most prominent to me Pacific’s function is A/D processing and it menace that I need to have an access to the A/D inputs – far on the back of the unit and very uncomfortable to use. I wonder how prose who need constantly change the configuration of this things deal with it. I kind of would like to have A/D inputs in front panel - then I would be able to plague in there anything I with very conveniently…. In fact I would like to have 2 or 3 pairs of inputs and an ability to select the lines from which I would record….I would like also to have higher input impedance….

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
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