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   Home » Didital Things » Analog vs. Digital... without BS. (24 posts, 2 pages)
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  »  New  A CD off tune? The Big CD Conspiracy theory?..  Low cost re-issues...  Didital Things  Forum     9  71995  08-25-2009
  »  New  The High Resolution PCM files business, where?..  Really bad...  Didital Things  Forum     31  177247  09-29-2009
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  »  New  Zanden 2500S CD player + some general attitude comments..  The hard-reading vs. soft-reading...  Didital Things  Forum     4  47371  11-03-2009
  »  New  The Andrew Rose’s “Pristine Audio” and the XR Mastering..  Paying le mortgage...  Didital Things  Forum     1  22433  11-24-2009
  »  New  To buy an SACD Player?..  Cheap sacd players...  Didital Things  Forum     7  43566  04-02-2012
  »  New  The commercial music servers...  Touch screen remote...  Didital Things  Forum     37  276200  01-10-2008
05-06-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Doron
Posts 6
Joined on 05-06-2009

Post #: 21
Post ID: 10448
Reply to: 10276
What can the laymen do?
fiogf49gjkf0d
 Romy the Cat wrote:

Anyhow, the point is that audio people do not deal with original raw digital file therefore their comments about Analog vs. Digital are not relevant as they do not see the true digital but rather a digital crap.


Hi Romy,

So the format and the changes in the mastering are the main issues.
I always felt that the multi-thousand dollars CDP's are like a skillful chef that got a micro-waved hamburger as an ingredient and is requested by the restaurant owner to recreate a fillet-Mignon out of it...there is a limit to what a chef can do. 
So what can the layman who wants to enjoy digital do?
Where would a normal guy get the raw files and how will he be able to play them?
Doesn't this situation make enjoying digital playback almost as impractical as listening to reel to reel tapes?
If you can pick a street copy of any used LP with half decent recording and enjoy it emotionally much more so than its CD or SACD digital rendition, does the notion that the raw digital file was actually decent, helpful?
Sometimes I feel it almost feels like an act of god or "more luck than brains" to get good sound because of so many factors (which you eloquently described in your site) are working against it.
Why does it need to be so difficult?
   
Regards,

Doron
05-07-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,730
Joined on 05-28-2004

Post #: 22
Post ID: 10463
Reply to: 10448
The domination of the “mastered” releases.
fiogf49gjkf0d

 Doron wrote:

So what can the layman who wants to enjoy digital do?
Where would a normal guy get the raw files and how will he be able to play them?

Well, I do not know but my bitching about the domination of the “mastered releases“ very much in tune with my vision of about how audio shall be:

http://www.romythecat.com/Forums/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=6917

I am getting the “row” files from FM but I have to admit that FM is not perfect media not to mention that it is in proper format  it have almost gone from most of the locations. I am very optimistic about what BSO started: releasing the “live” row 88/24 files from their concerts. If we have a few dozen orchestras around then would offer the same service then it would fill the vacuum of raw digital streams

Sure the unlimited wet dream of my would be a dedicated, subscription only, high resolution feed with well managed (very loaded component) LIVE classical programming, preferably with “On Demand” option. I think we are not far from there and all that we need is the idiots who run the industry today to ground to die out and new people with new idea to take over.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
08-18-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Doron
Posts 6
Joined on 05-06-2009

Post #: 23
Post ID: 11467
Reply to: 10463
If we are into a valid comparison - should we not compare the Raw file to a master tape?
fiogf49gjkf0d
I gave a thought to your claim of a non-objective and superficial judgment of digital audio when comparing CD's to LP's.
If I understand it correctly, the raw file has potential to sound very good (given no losses or damage when downloading and given a proper computer DAC and minimal jitter and noise when playing it).
From my limited experience and trusting my ears I tend to agree since many acoustical LP recordings pressed from an original digital recordings from the late 70's sound much more convincing and lively than their dead and sterile CD or SACD versions. Which means that at some point (the original ADC to a raw file) the music was there and got lost in translation to the CD/SACD/DVD-Audio.
 
However if we compare apples to apples should we not say:
Commercial products like CD's should be compared to Commercial products like LP's?
Should we not compare the raw digital file to its counterpart analogue master tape for the comparison to be fair?

Just a thought.
  
04-08-2020 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
rowuk


Germany
Posts 354
Joined on 07-05-2012

Post #: 24
Post ID: 25828
Reply to: 11467
Are we comparing anything except our own prejudices?
How can we compare anything if we know from the very first note what media is being used? The noise floor and sonic artifacts are unique to each media, so are we talking about confirmation bias? Let us assume that we have a first generation analog master tape, the LP, the CD and a direct download at a worthy resolution. What does a comparison accomplish? Does it represent our efforts or our prejudices? If the performance and mastering are identical, is our perception so weak that the media determines the level of enjoyment?

What are we listening to/for?


Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.
Page 2 of 2 (24 items) Select Pages:  « 1 2
   Target    Threads for related reading   Most recent post in related threads   Forum  Replies   Views   Started 
  »  New  A CD off tune? The Big CD Conspiracy theory?..  Low cost re-issues...  Didital Things  Forum     9  71995  08-25-2009
  »  New  The High Resolution PCM files business, where?..  Really bad...  Didital Things  Forum     31  177247  09-29-2009
  »  New  A need for Resolution /Sampling Assessment Test..  Well, we kind of 'have' a file Virginity Assessment Tes...  Didital Things  Forum     1  20631  10-06-2009
  »  New  Zanden 2500S CD player + some general attitude comments..  The hard-reading vs. soft-reading...  Didital Things  Forum     4  47371  11-03-2009
  »  New  The Andrew Rose’s “Pristine Audio” and the XR Mastering..  Paying le mortgage...  Didital Things  Forum     1  22433  11-24-2009
  »  New  To buy an SACD Player?..  Cheap sacd players...  Didital Things  Forum     7  43566  04-02-2012
  »  New  The commercial music servers...  Touch screen remote...  Didital Things  Forum     37  276200  01-10-2008
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